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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post


    That seems pretty unlikely. You don't even believe the Gospel was "good news" do you"?
    "b'sorah tovah" = good news.

    "b'sorah ra'ah'= bad news.

    "b'sorot iyow" = very bad news.

    So the Gospel might be good news for the one, but bad news for the other.

    Good news for the blind, bad news for the seeing, bad news for the arrogant.

    Isaiah 61:1,
    The spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to bring good tidings unto the humble; He hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the eyes to them that are bound;


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    And for that matter, you don't even believe that Jesus was messiah
    He is.

  2. #22


    Yin/Yang,Pi, or star:/ is the same regardless of how your draw it. Really has nothing to do with numbers. Plus from what I can tell old cultures only knew how to add and subtract. Snowflakes do rock, especially when you view em from the side, yin/yang



    Whatever definition you have time, gravity, speed, you can use the above to help ratio
    Last edited by Chris Ellsworth; 09-23-2012 at 06:39 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Did you know "Vicar of Christ" written in Hebrew and Greek . . .
    . . . and even Latin equals 666 ?
    Can you please show that?


    Latin: Vicarius Christi

    I don't see,

    How it is in Greek?
    And how in Hebrew?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough
    And the simple fact is that the same evidence for Hebrew gematria in Genesis 1:1 also shows that it is unified with John 1:1 in Greek, so you simply don't know what you are talking about.
    Unified?
    I don't see.
    http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Creation_John1.asp
    You calculated the number 3627 = 39 x 93
    But 39 and 93 are not prime numbers, like 73 and 73.

    Or do you mean John hints at the gematrial structure of Genesis 1:1, by writing Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, "ïn the beginning was the word"?



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The value of Logos is 373 and that's the value of the Koch Star I posted

    Do you think then that John 1:14 , Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο "And the word became flesh" has to be understood from the "koch star that equals 373"?

    And how then?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Unified?
    I don't see.
    http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Creation_John1.asp
    You calculated the number 3627 = 39 x 93
    But 39 and 93 are not prime numbers, like 73 and 73.

    Or do you mean John hints at the gematrial structure of Genesis 1:1, by writing Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, "ïn the beginning was the word"?
    This is what I meant by "unified" - Creation Holograph: Full Integration





    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Do you think then that John 1:14 , Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο "And the word became flesh" has to be understood from the "koch star that equals 373"?

    And how then?
    No. The number 373 is the value of the word LOGOS.

    The number 19 relates to physical manifestation and the flesh (sarx = 19 x 19). That's why John 1:14 is built upon many nested multiples of 19 as seen in the Grace Manifest Holograph (114 = 19 x 6 = Chanon/Grace):

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The only "unification" I do see lies in the fact that 373 as (7x37) + (6x19) shows up the number 37 that is also hidden in Genesis 1:1.

    But, as said, you can't compare or equate Greek gematria with Hebrew gematria.

    OIW your "Creation HyperHolograph" proves nothing.

    I would like to see an example from the Gospel of John from which it might be clear that John worked with Greek gematria.

    It seems just highly unlikely that he wanted to stress the number 373 as gematria of both καὶ θεὸς ἦν and λόγος..

    Maybe revealing is the fact that you have the article , which stands for the Hebrew letter "hey", fall out of the ship...

    "The heart of wisdom" is as far as I know, not a biblical phrase.




    (John has the numbers 38 and 153, that, without any doubt, refer to Hebrew gematria and not to Greek,)





    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The number 19 relates to physical manifestation and the flesh (sarx = 19 x 19). That's why John 1:14 is built upon many nested multiples of 19 as seen in the Grace Manifest Holograph (114 = 19 x 6 = Chanon/Grace):

    http://www.biblewheel.com/images/grace1.gif
    19 is the number of the name Chavah = Eve.

    It is also the amount of years in the Ibbur-cycle, counting 12 years of twelve (moon-)months and 7 years of 13 (moon-)months.

    Favor (grace) = "çhen", gematria 58, coinciding the 58 facets of the brilliant.

    When it regretted the Lord that he had made man upon the earth and wanted to blot out man and make an end to all flesh, Noach was the one to find favor in his eyes. The name Noach also having gematria 58. (Noach being the reverse of "chen" , it is just that "chen" is written with the outstretched nun that also concludes the book of Daniel)

    The year of the flood had a duration 0f 365 years, exceeding a year of twelve moon-months by ten days.

    Genesis 8:14, which is about htis 365th day, having the same gematria as Genesis 1:1, viz. 2701.

    Which is in fact the ideal "yom kippur", the tenth day of the new year.

    A Jewish year in practice never equates 365 days.

    "yom kippur" being the day of the last trumpet, τῇ ἐσχάτῃ σάλπιγγι, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
    Last edited by sylvius; 09-24-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    The only "unification" I do see lies in the fact that 373 as (7x37) + (6x19) shows up the number 37 that is also hidden in Genesis 1:1.
    There's a lot more shown than that. You seem to have trouble with your eye sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    But, as said, you can't compare or equate Greek gematria with Hebrew gematria.
    That's your own biased opinion. Who cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    OIW your "Creation HyperHolograph" proves nothing.
    Light proves nothing to a blind man.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I would like to see an example from the Gospel of John from which it might be clear that John worked with Greek gematria.
    I never said that the authors of the NT worked consciously with Greek gematria, and the one case where they were consciously working with gematria in 13:18 is Hebrew. But there is a hint concerning the giving of the law and its relation to the number 430 which is the value of the Greek word "nomos" -

    Galatians 3:17 What I mean is this: The law (nomos = 430), introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    It seems just highly unlikely that he wanted to stress the number 373 as gematria of both καὶ θεὸς ἦν and λόγος..
    I never said that "he" had anything to do with the patterns of gematria. I don't think the author of Genesis 1:1 had any idea about the gematria either.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Maybe revealing is the fact that you have the article , which stands for the Hebrew letter "hey", fall out of the ship...

    "The heart of wisdom" is as far as I know, not a biblical phrase.
    You make up mountains of crap from stuff that is not written. For example the word "ed" is not written in Gen 2:6 but rather v'ed. So you make up an excuse why it's ok for you to invent stuff based on ed = 1 + 4 but then attack me if I do the same thing. Your criticisms are inconsistent and so reveal your baseless bias that skews your understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    (John has the numbers 38 and 153, that, without any doubt, refer to Hebrew gematria and not to Greek,)
    Greek and the Hebrew gematria are profoundly integrated. You are blind to this because you willfully close your eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    19 is the number of the name Chavah = Eve.
    That's exactly correct. And so we have the relation tzela (rib) = 190 = 10 x 19 (Eve)

    I talked about this in my article The Number 19 - Physical Manifestation. That's why I use that word in title of the Grace Manifest Holograph where I explain many of the relations.

    The Greek word for flesh is sarx = 19 x 19 = amnos (lamb, the symbol of Christ's flesh). This is an example of the coherence between Greek and Hebrew gematria. And here is another example. The number 2869 = 19 x 151 and it relates the Hebrew prophecy of Christ's crucifixion to to the phrase "the body of Jesus":


    I explain this in my article Quph - The Body of Jesus. And another example is the word maqum (place, Hebrew) = 186 = Golgotha (Greek), cf. The Place of the Skull. This is the stone of stumbling (even negeph) = 186.

    The rabbis concur concerning the symbolic meaning of the number 19. In his Wisdom of the Hebrew Alphabet Rabbi Munk says
    The fact that the same letter repesents both kedushah [holiness] and an animal [ape] that is a parody of humanity offers a deep insight about man's role. Man is created in the image of God and is only a little lower than the angels (Psalms 8:6). Though he can never attain God's holiness, he is charged with emulating Him and is assured that he can scale celestial heights. But he can do so only if his efforts are concerted and sincere. If man acts as an "image of God," his potential is boundless. If he is merely a poor imitation of what man should be, he is hardly better than a primate.

    I could go on, but it wouldn't matter. You have chosen to close your mind to anything that doesn't fit your prejudices. How pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Favor (grace) = "çhen", gematria 58, coinciding the 58 facets of the brilliant.
    Yes, and Grace is the essence of the Cross, Tav (Cross) = 406 = 7 (Perfection) x 58 (Grace in Hebrew) and this coheres with the Sepher Yetzirah which says that Tav is "king over grace" and it is confirmed again by Greek gematria (see my article on Multiples of Seven):


    The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ = 6377 = 7 (Perfection) x 911 (Charis, Grace in Greek)


    Same pattern in Greek and Hebrew gematria.

    And of course the Greek value of Holy Spirit is ten times the Hebrew value of Dove, just like the Greek value of Christ is ten times the Hebrew value of Passover. There are many fascinating correlations linking Greek and Hebrew gemtria:

    Root
    Hebraic Origin Greek Fulfillment (10 x Root)
    148 Passover Christ
    71 Dove The Holy Spirit
    232 Eternal God The One who is, and who
    was,and who is to come
    696 Thou shalt have no other
    gods before me
    Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God,
    and him only shalt thou serve.

    See my article Multiples of Ten. I could go on, but you don't care. At least this will show others that your opinions have no basis in fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    When it regretted the Lord that he had made man upon the earth and wanted to blot out man and make an end to all flesh, Noach was the one to find favor in his eyes. The name Noach also having gematria 58. (Noach being the reverse of "chen" , it is just that "chen" is written with the outstretched nun that also concludes the book of Daniel)
    Of course. I wrote about that ten years ago in my article An Ancient Witness which showed how the Sepher Yetzirah coheres with Greek gematria.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Genesis 8:14, which is about htis 365th day, having the same gematria as Genesis 1:1, viz. 2701.
    Yep. I've known that for years. It is also interesting that it divides into 1690 + 1011 = 2701

    1690 = And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh
    1101 = day of the month, the earth was dry.

    Genesis 1:1 divides into the same two numbers if we take the sums of alternating words (see my article Divine Tapestry of Genesis 1:1).



    The sum of the third and fifth words (Elohim + heaven) equals the value of "The Genesis" in Greek. And the words in the even positions sum to the Greek value of The Heavens and the Earth, but of course these things have nothing to do with Genesis 1 because they are written in Greek and you, the great judge of all truth, have declared that there can be no correlation between the gematria of those two languages.

    And the sum of the first and last words is 1/3 the value of John 1:1 and the sum of the third and fifth words is the value of "The Genesis" and also 1/48 of the sum of John 1:2-5 showing another integration with the Greek. And of course the greatest example of the integration of Greek and Hebrew gematria is found in the Shema, the Unity Holograph, which Christ declared to be the greatest commandment:



    Here we see the three great names of God: YHVH, Elohim, and The Father (Greek) united in the Shema which sums to 1118 = 13 (Echad/One) x 86 (Elohim/God) which encodes the meaning of the entire Shema and reveals the Trinity. And this is profoundly integrated with John 1:1-5 which also is integrated with Genesis 1:1-5:



    The Shema, Genesis 1:1-5 and John 1:1-5 are all profoundly integrated:



    And John 1:1-5 integrates with the Logos Holograph (Hebrews 4:12)



    And there are many other examples that show the overwhelming integration of the Greek gematria of John 1:1-5 with the Hebrew gematria of Genesis 1:1-5 and the Shema and Hebrews 4:12 and John 1:14. But you don't care about any of this evidence because evidence means nothing to you. You have chosen to blind yourself. That's a bad choice in my estimation.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    There's a lot more shown than that.
    what for example?





    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I never said that the authors of the NT worked consciously with Greek gematria, except in the unique case of rev 13:18.
    666 Greek gematria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Though there is a hint concerning the giving of the law and its relation to the number 430 which is the value of the Greek word "nomos"
    The 430 years are mentioned in Exodus 12:41;
    being the amount of years after "the covenant between the pieces", when the seed was promised to Abraham (Genesis 15); that's why Paul mentions the 430 years, not because of they should be gematria of "nomos".

    Strange thing is that Abraham must have been 70 years old by that time, while he was already 75 when leaving Charan.
    I think the five years allude to the article "ho" you threw away from "logos".

    430 is gematria of "nefesh", soul, the soul Jesus did give as ransom for the many.

    430 is also gematria of Rameses. The first desert journey, on the first day of pesach, the same day as on which Jesus was crucified (according to the Synoptici), went from Rameses to Sukkot, from 430 to 480, difference 50 (coincding the 50 days from the second day of pesach till pentecost)


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I never said that "he" had anything to do with the patterns of gematria.
    He deliberately mentioned the numbers 38 and 153.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    You make up mountains of crap from stuff that is not written. For example the word "ed" is not written in Gen 2:6 but rather v'ed.
    , the word is "ed", "v-" is prefix.
    Like also fe. gematria of "arets", earth, is 291, although quite often there is written "v'arets", or "haarets" or "v'haarets"



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    So you make up an excuse why it's ok for you to invent stuff based on ed = 1 + 4 but then attack me if I do the same thing.
    - you just skip it to balance your comparison, "And God was (the) word" -- when "And God was" = "the word" it might have made more sense (if it had sense at all).




    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    That's exactly correct. And so we have the relation tzela (rib) = 190 = 10 x 19 (Eve)
    So God could make ten women from one rib?

    Eve must have been rather confused then, since every time Adam returned home the first thing she did was count his ribs.

    .



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The Greek word for flesh is sarx = 19 x 19 = amnos (lamb, the symbol of Christ's flesh).
    Symbol of Christ's flesh?
    Has this to do with the saying "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"?
    (Hebrew "keves"= lamb, while "kevesh" = footstool, from "kavash" to suppress, subdue, to rape, )





    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    This is an example of the coherence between Greek and Hebrew gematria.
    ?? they are both Greek words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    And here is another example. The number 2869 = 19 x 151 and it relates the Hebrew prophecy of Christ's crucifixion to to the phrase "the body of Jesus":


    http://www.biblewheel.com/images/Body2869.gif
    I explain this in my article Quph - The Body of Jesus.
    That's really sought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    And another example is the word maqum (place, Hebrew) = 186 = Golgotha (Greek), cf. The Place of the Skull. This is the stone of stumbling (even negeph) = 186.
    I don't see no proof.





    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The rabbis concur concerning the symbolic meaning of the number 19. In his Wisdom of the Hebrew Alphabet Rabbi Munk says
    The fact that the same letter repesents both kedushah [holiness] and an animal [ape] that is a parody of humanity offers a deep insight about man's role. Man is created in the image of God and is only a little lower than the angels (Psalms 8:6). Though he can never attain God's holiness, he is charged with emulating Him and is assured that he can scale celestial heights. But he can do so only if his efforts are concerted and sincere. If man acts as an "image of God," his potential is boundless. If he is merely a poor imitation of what man should be, he is hardly better than a primate.
    Rabbi Munk doesn't mention the number 19, but the meaning of the letter "Kuf".

    Value of "kuf" is 100.

    Since it is about decimal counting, the numbers 10 and 100 are like joints.
    10 being the last of the units and the first of the decimals, 100 the last of the decimals and the first of the hundreds (that go no further than 400)




    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Yes, and Grace is the essence of the Cross, Tav (Cross) = 406 = 7 (Perfection) x 58 (Grace in Hebrew) and this coheres with the Sepher Yetzirah which says that Tav is "king over grace" and it is confirmed again by Greek gematria (see my article on Multiples of Seven):
    "Tav" is not "the cross", but (cross)sign.

    Greek "stauros" doesn't mean cross, but stake,




    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ = 6377 = 7 (Perfection) x 911 (Charis, Grace in Greek)


    Same pattern in Greek and Hebrew gematria.

    And of course the Greek value of Holy Spirit is ten times the Hebrew value of Dove, just like the Greek value of Christ is ten times the Hebrew value of Passover. There are many fascinating correlations linking Greek and Hebrew gemtria:

    Root
    Hebraic Origin Greek Fulfillment (10 x Root)
    148 Passover Christ
    71 Dove The Holy Spirit
    232 Eternal God The One who is, and who
    was,and who is to come
    696 Thou shalt have no other
    gods before me
    Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God,
    and him only shalt thou serve.

    See my article Multiples of Ten. I could go on, but you don't care.
    ok I am blind for that; I don't see no light in it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    . It is also interesting that it divides into 1690 + 1011 = 2701

    1690 = And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh
    1101 = day of the month, the earth was dry.
    That's good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    But you don't care about any of this evidence because evidence means nothing to you.
    I don't see no evidence, i am sorry.
    Last edited by sylvius; 09-24-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    The 430 years are mentioned in Exodus 12:41;
    being the amount of years after "the covenant between the pieces", when the seed was promised to Abraham (Genesis 15); that's why Paul mentions the 430 years, not because of they should be gematria of "nomos".
    Paul probably did not know of the connection, but you don't know that he didn't. So once again, we see you making assertions that have no foundation in fact.

    And you missed my point. The connection is between the number 430 which is the value of nomos and the mention of nomos in the same verse. If Paul did not do it consciously, then some other process was involved, or it was a mere coincidence.

    That's the primary problem with all your gematria. You have no way to discern between chance and design. You just cherry pick numbers and words that you can force to fit your preconceived ideas. It is pure foolishness.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Strange thing is that Abraham must have been 70 years old by that time, while he was already 75 when leaving Charan.
    I think the five years allude to the article "ho" you threw away from "logos".
    I didn't "throw away the ho from logos." I can't believe how willing you are to make such ignorant and false assertions. Every Greek noun in the nominative case has two values associated with it, one with the article and one without. Both are significant. The "ho" makes the Logos "definite" - that's why it's called the "definite article." The two values play critical roles in the Logos Holograph which is indexed by the digits of the value of the name of the second letter, Bet = 412. To understand why this is significant, you need to understand the full range of symbolic meanings of the the letter Bet and associated archetypes.

    The Second Letter is the archetype representing the Numerical Category defined by the Number 2. It includes all the related archetypes such as Duality, Division, Distinction, Image, Reflection and so forth. The concept of the Word as based on distinction, using terms such as signification and meaning. This coheres precisely with the fundamentally dualistic nature of the concept of the Word as explained by Yale professor E. H. Sturtevant in his Introduction to Linguistic Science:
    A symbol [word] necessarily involves a dualism; there must be something that stands for or represents something else. This many be indicated by a diagram:
    Name:  signifier-signified.gif
Views: 248
Size:  2.7 KB
    This relation is the foundation of Linguistic Science. A word is the signifier that houses a concept, the thing signified. The form contains the meaning. A word defines things by dividing between "this and that" just as a house is a container that defines between "in" and "out." This coheres with its role in Hebrew grammar where it functions as the sign of the preposition "in." Thus we understand that the Second Person of the Trinity - the Son (Ben = Bet KeyWord, just as the First Person Father = Av = Aleph KeyWord) is described as the Word of God and the Image of God. We find this Numerical Category used quite consistently throughout the Bible:

    • Number 2 in Semiotics: Represents Division, Image, Reflection, Duality
    • Number 2 in Theology: Represents the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity.
    • Number 2 in Scripture:
      • Second Day: Division of the Waters
      • Second Seal: Great Sword, War, Division of the People (= Waters, Rev. 17.15)
      • Second Commandment: No graven Images - relates to Duality, Reflection, and Second Person as Image of the invisible God.

    • Number 2 in Linguistics: The Word is the "linguistic image" of an object. It divides - like a sword - between this and that. The Duality of the Signifier and thing Signified is the foundation of this study. It integrates with Theology and Scripture because "The Word" is the name of the Second Person of the Godhead.

    I explain a lot of these ideas in my Spoke 2 article called The Structure of Genesis.

    With this understanding, we can see how all these ideas cohere with the idea of "God's House" which is his Word and we have the identity:
    Bet-El (God's House) = 412 + 31 = 443 = Ho Logos (The Word)
    And this is the central theme of the Logos Holograph which is indexed by the number 412 and which is based on the two large prime values associated with the Logos, 373 and 443. I begin with the first clause:



    This self-reflective structure is based on the value of "The Logos" = 443 and the phrase "For the word of God is living" = 6 x 443. The rest of the holograph is based on multiples of the prime numbers 73 = Hokmah (Wisdom, Hebrew) and 373 = Logos which are similar in that they both are formed from the digits 3 and 7, and they are both based on the hexagonal star numbers:




    These numbers also related to the Creation Holograph, Genesis 1:1 = 2701 = 37 x 73. Thus we have the Logos Holograph based on the concept of God's House (Bet) which is a symbol of God's Word:




    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    430 is gematria of "nefesh", soul, the soul Jesus did give as ransom for the many.

    430 is also gematria of Rameses. The first desert journey, on the first day of pesach, the same day as on which Jesus was crucified (according to the Synoptici), went from Rameses to Sukkot, from 430 to 480, difference 50 (coincding the 50 days from the second day of pesach till pentecost)
    You are just picking and choosing whatever values you like. Your study is not disciplined like mine where I restrict myself to the self-reflective alphanumeric structures of entire passages.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    He deliberately mentioned the numbers 38 and 153.
    That doesn't prove he was thinking of Hebrew gematria.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    , the word is "ed", "v-" is prefix.
    Like also fe. gematria of "arets", earth, is 291, although quite often there is written "v'arets", or "haarets" or "v'haarets"
    As usually, you make up excuses for your DOUBLE STANDARD. When I do exactly the same thing as you with a Hebrew word, you reject it. That is profoundly irrational.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    - you just skip it to balance your comparison, "And God was (the) word" -- when "And God was" = "the word" it might have made more sense (if it had sense at all).
    That is not true. I account for both values 373 and 443. You just make up random stuff that is totally meaningless like "ed" and then build huge speculations out of nothing. My work is solid and advanced. Your work is like a child playing with finger paint drawing random squiggles.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    So God could make ten women from one rib?
    God did not make Eve from a rib. Eve didn't even exist. It's all part of the story. The story may have a deep meaning, but it's nothing like what you are Christians think.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Symbol of Christ's flesh?
    You don't understand something that basic? The passover lamb was a symbol of Christ's flesh. "Christ our passover has been sacrificed for us."

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    ?? they are both Greek words.
    They are both Greek words with the value 19 x 19 which relates to the idea of manifestation and flesh in both Greek and Hebrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    The Greek word for flesh is sarx = 19 x 19 = amnos (lamb, the symbol of Christ's flesh). This is an example of the coherence between Greek and Hebrew gematria. And here is another example. The number 2869 = 19 x 151 and it relates the Hebrew prophecy of Christ's crucifixion to to the phrase "the body of Jesus":


    I explain this in my article Quph - The Body of Jesus. And another example is the word maqum (place, Hebrew) = 186 = Golgotha (Greek), cf. The Place of the Skull. This is the stone of stumbling (even negeph) = 186.
    That's really sought.
    How did I "seek" that identity? John quoted that verse when speaking of the body of Christ, in context. Your comments are absurd and reveal nothing but your gross ignorance and willful blindness. You can't refute a word I write so you make up meaningless crap. Your word "sought" means nothing except as a description of what you do on a regular basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I explain this in my article Quph - The Body of Jesus. And another example is the word maqum (place, Hebrew) = 186 = Golgotha (Greek), cf. The Place of the Skull. This is the stone of stumbling (even negeph) = 186.
    I don't see no proof.
    Of course not. You don't see anything you don't want to see. You've been proving this for years. You are willfully blind. And your next comment proves it, in spades.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Rabbi Munk doesn't mention the number 19, but the meaning of the letter "Kuf".

    Value of "kuf" is 100.
    Perfect. Now you display your gross ignorance for all to see. The name of the letter Quf = 186 = maqom (place) = Golgotha (Greek) = the place where the flesh (19 x 19) of Christ was crucified as I discussed above, and you responded by saying "I don't see no proof." Do you really enjoy being ignorant? Is that what this is all about?

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    "Tav" is not "the cross", but (cross)sign.
    Same difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Greek "stauros" doesn't mean cross, but stake,
    Yes, it can mean stake, but it can also mean cross. Are you ignorant of everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    ok I am blind for that; I don't see no light in it.
    That's because you don't want to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    That's good.
    That's because you want to see that one minor point because it is based on Hebrew. You are totally inconsistent and confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I don't see no evidence, i am sorry.
    I don't think you are sorry at all. You ignore all the evidence mererly because you don't want to see it. That's very sad (for you).
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Paul probably did not know of the connection
    He makes his argument with it.

    In fact it was also 430 years after the "mother of all wars", the war of the four kings against the five, where Abraham gained victory with help of his 318 trained servants (Genesis 14), since Genesis 15:1 reads: . אַחַר הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה, "achar hd'varim haeleh", after these incidents.

    Rashi:
    Wherever the term אַחַר is used, it signifies immediately afterwards; אַחִרֵי signifies a long time afterwards (Gen. Rabbah 44:5). After this miracle had been wrought for him, that he slew the kings, he was worried and said, “Perhaps I have received reward for all my righteous deeds.”


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    And you missed my point. The connection is between the number 430 which is the value of nomos and the mention of nomos in the same verse. If Paul did not do it consciously, then some other process was involved, or it was a mere coincidence.
    So you admit that your Greek gematria is just nonsense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    That's the primary problem with all your gematria. You have no way to discern between chance and design. You just cherry pick numbers and words that you can force to fit your preconceived ideas. It is pure foolishness.
    I think this applies to yourself.



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I didn't "throw away the ho from logos."
    I meant the letter "hey" from the word "hashishi", the 434th word of the Hebrew bible,


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The two values play critical roles in the Logos Holograph
    the Logos Holograph was your own invention ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    With this understanding, we can see how all these ideas cohere with the idea of "God's House" which is his Word and we have the identity:[INDENT]Bet-El (God's House) = 412 + 31 = 443 = Ho Logos (The Word)
    Again you do compare Hebrew with Greek gematria, for which you have no allowance.
    And there is not any sense in it either.
    Jacob called the place where he dreamt of the ladder Bet-El, where it was called before Luz , with gematria 43 (Genesis 28:19), in which might be a deeper sense. ("Luz" means nut, hazel or almond, and is also the name of the famous bone that cannot decay, not in burnt in fire and not dissolved in water. Since water is symbol of time, "400" might allude to "oceans of time", billions and billions of years. Time in which Egypt, the sphere of duality, went under )



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    You are just picking and choosing whatever values you like.
    Which might be a matter of favor, "chen".



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    That doesn't prove he was thinking of Hebrew gematria.
    I made it plausible,

    "tov", good, with gematria 17, is the 153rd word of the bible; 153 being triangle 17.
    It wouldn't have been the 153rd word when the earth had brought forth "ets pri oseh pri" (fruit tree making fruit) instead of "ets oseh pri" (tree making fruit). Tehn it would have been the 154th word, and "hashishi" would have been the 435th word instead of the 434th, (434 = "delet", door) and "b'hibaram" (Genesis 2:4) would have been the 475th word instead of the 474th (474 = "da'at ", knowledge)

    This being the big mystery.








    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    As usually, you make up excuses for your DOUBLE STANDARD. When I do exactly the same thing as you with a Hebrew word, you reject it.
    I didn't do exactly the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    That is not true. I account for both values 373 and 443.
    John 1:1 should have read then:

    καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

    or:

    καὶ θεὸς ἦν λόγος


    But ir is all nonsense.

    Yet John alludes to Genesis 1:1 with Ἐν ἀρχῇ, which stands for "b'reishit"

    Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος,= "b'reishit hayah hadavar"

    continues with:

    καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν

    πρὸς denoting direction, to, towards

    I understand as "inward", denoting the inner meaning of the word.

    John 1:14 "and the word became flesh" - it was explained.

    Hebrew "teivah" = ark (of Noach), basket (in which baby Moses was lain), means also word as written with letters.
    The ark of Noach had measures 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, values that spell the word "lashon" = language, tongue.

    Tongue is flesh.

    Holy tongue = Hebrew.
    Tongues like as of fire = holy spirit (Acts 2) which seems to be cognate to "the flame of fire", "labbat-esh" , of Exodus 3:2.





    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    You just make up random stuff that is totally meaningless like "ed" and then build huge speculations out of nothing. My work is solid and advanced. Your work is like a child playing with finger paint drawing random squiggles.
    oh boy



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    God did not make Eve from a rib. Eve didn't even exist. It's all part of the story. The story may have a deep meaning, but it's nothing like what you are Christians think.
    so 1 rib is not equal to 10 Eves?




    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    You don't understand something that basic? The passover lamb was a symbol of Christ's flesh. "Christ our passover has been sacrificed for us."
    I thought it was about the blood of the lamb ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    They are both Greek words with the value 19 x 19 which relates to the idea of manifestation and flesh in both Greek and Hebrew.
    manifestation and flesh


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    How did I "seek" that identity?
    ok, you found it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Of course not. You don't see anything you don't want to see.
    That goes for everyone, ain't it? Also for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Perfect. Now you display your gross ignorance for all to see. The name of the letter Quf = 186 = maqom (place) = Golgotha (Greek) = the place where the flesh (19 x 19) of Christ was crucified
    I didn't know his flesh was crucified. Was he first killed and next his corpse nailed to the cross?




    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I don't think you are sorry at all.
    I am sorry for you.
    Last edited by sylvius; 09-25-2012 at 01:54 AM.

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