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  1. #1
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    Q&A: Gloria Steinem on ending rape in war

    An excellent interview of Gloria Steinem by Lauren Wolfe (here).

    Lauren Wolfe: What are some of the reasons rape is so prevalent in war?
    Gloria Steinem

    Gloria Steinem: First, it’s important to note that rape and war didn’t always go together. For instance, European colonists wrote astonished letters home about how “even these savages”—by which they meant the residents of this continent they were invading—didn’t rape, not even their women prisoners. But those were wars of self-defense. If you’re going to get groups of men to risk their humanity, health, and lives in wars of offense, the traditional way is not to pay them a lot, but to addict them to the “cult of masculinity.” You have to convince them they’re not “real men” unless they kill and conquer. And, at its most basic, “masculine” means not being “feminine.” On a continuum, it means controlling women, conquering women, raping women, even with objects: bottles and broom handles in “peacetime” here, and gun barrels and knives in Bosnia or Congo. There’s a reason why it’s a truism that rape is not sex, it’s violence.
    It’s also true that men may rape in groups out of social pressure to prove their “masculinity”—in peacetime, too—but gang mentality is a way of life in war. Military officers sometimes order men to rape as proof of loyalty and shared culpability. Some men express regret and say they wouldn’t have raped without group pressure. Also the group hatred war requires means humiliating enemies by raping “their” women, implanting sperm, taking over their means of reproduction, wiping out the enemy race or ethnicity. Cultures that put all “honor” in the purity of “their” women—and keep women weak—are actually setting them up as targets.
    Even in peacetime, the “cult of masculinity” is so powerful that men commit crimes in which they have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose: “senseless” killings like those in schools and post offices, serial murders, domestic violence, stalking, killing their wives and children and then killing themselves. They’re not hate crimes because they don’t hate the people they kill—but those people symbolize their lack of control, and so are killing the “masculinity” on which their whole sense of self depends. In interviews, such men often describe themselves as victims because they believe they should have been allowed to have control. I think we should call such crimes “supremacy crimes.” (continued)
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  2. #2
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    Hello Rose

    I do not want to drag up the conversation we have had, but I will make this comment concerning the 32,000 virgins that were taken by the Israelites.

    If "rape in war" is done in these days as in the Congo and other places, it shows that the Israelites following the instruction of God were not barbaric by comparison to what men will do when left to their own devices whether under instruction from their commanding officers or not in the times we are living. The Israelite soldiers did not rape in times of war. The Israelites were under instruction to kill the reprobate people living in the land, and the instruction not to take pleasure in violence towards the women who were to be killed did not have to be given, because that was not part of their remit. The Israelites were not perfect and they did not obey God's instruction to the letter, but nevertheless, they were not as cruel as you would make out.

    Concerning the 32,000 virgins that were taken, though you call it rape when they were later married to the Israelite soldiers, they were treaty with civility and protected as wives.

    That's all I want to say on the matter.

    All the best,

    David

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose

    I do not want to drag up the conversation we have had, but I will make this comment concerning the 32,000 virgins that were taken by the Israelites.

    If "rape in war" is done in these days as in the Congo and other places, it shows that the Israelites following the instruction of God were not barbaric by comparison to what men will do when left to their own devices whether under instruction from their commanding officers or not in the times we are living. The Israelite soldiers did not rape in times of war. The Israelites were under instruction to kill the reprobate people living in the land, and the instruction not to take pleasure in violence towards the women who were to be killed did not have to be given, because that was not part of their remit. The Israelites were not perfect and they did not obey God's instruction to the letter, but nevertheless, they were not as cruel as you would make out.

    Concerning the 32,000 virgins that were taken, though you call it rape when they were later married to the Israelite soldiers, they were treaty with civility and protected as wives.

    That's all I want to say on the matter.

    All the best,

    David
    Hello David,

    Instead of focusing on trying to give reasons and justify the Israelite's who raped women and treated them like property, your focus should be on condemning the barbaric practice of rape wherever it is found. Like I said to Cheow, if the men of the world would stand up in support of the other half of the human population, and condemn the barbaric practice of rape it could practically be eliminated.

    Rarely does one see religious leaders speaking out against biblical rape, instead they set about to try and justify it...how pathetic is that? Rape is a barbaric macho male thing that makes men feel powerful, but in reality it is nothing but uncivilized behavior that is common only to the male human animal. It doesn't matter where one finds rape, whether it be in the pages of a religious book, or in a woman"s home it should be denounced in the strongest terms possible! It does nothing but degrade the male mindset, that is why it is so wrong not to call the biblical sexual violation of women what it is...EVIL.

    Stop with the justification and call that which is evil...WRONG, quit trying to make it appear honorable by saying "they were treated with civility and protected as wives". The bottom line is those women DID NOT want to be the wives of those men, they were force into a relationship they DID NOT want! How would you like to be forced to have sex with someone who just killed your entire family? Those women were real people with real feelings just like you or me, so quit trying to dismiss the reality of the matter. Try and put yourself into another persons shoes, you might be surprised.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello David,

    Instead of focusing on trying to give reasons and justify the Israelite's who raped women and treated them like property, your focus should be on condemning the barbaric practice of rape wherever it is found. Like I said to Cheow, if the men of the world would stand up in support of the other half of the human population, and condemn the barbaric practice of rape it could practically be eliminated.

    Rarely does one see religious leaders speaking out against biblical rape, instead they set about to try and justify it...how pathetic is that? Rape is a barbaric macho male thing that makes men feel powerful, but in reality it is nothing but uncivilized behavior that is common only to the male human animal. It doesn't matter where one finds rape, whether it be in the pages of a religious book, or in a woman"s home it should be denounced in the strongest terms possible! It does nothing but degrade the male mindset, that is why it is so wrong not to call the biblical sexual violation of women what it is...EVIL.

    Stop with the justification and call that which is evil...WRONG, quit trying to make it appear honorable by saying "they were treated with civility and protected as wives". The bottom line is those women DID NOT want to be the wives of those men, they were force into a relationship they DID NOT want! How would you like to be forced to have sex with someone who just killed your entire family? Those women were real people with real feelings just like you or me, so quit trying to dismiss the reality of the matter. Try and put yourself into another persons shoes, you might be surprised.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Good morning Rose

    I condemn rape wherever it is done and I support any cause that will help eliminate it, but seeing what is taking place in the world, I do not think there is enough time and there is not enough will to eradicate the problem as with many other problems man has caused, time is running out.

    In the context of marriage of the 32,000 virgins, it was not rape. If I make it appear honorable, it is to counteract your claim that the women did not accept their situation and that they were forced to have sex if they did not want to. You were not there so you cannot say for definite what took place. I concede that a small percentage might have been raped as in a large group of people there are always rebels, but that does not have to go for the majority. I think what I say has equal value to anything you say to the contrary.

    Did Absalom rape David's wives or did David's wives go willingly with Absalom? I think the motives of David's wives was such that their loyalty went with whoever had the power and influence. The wives of King David probably felt safer and better off by going with Absalom.
    These situations are never as clear cut as we might think they are. Of course there would be some of the 32, 000 virgins who would have objected and then they could be divorced. Maybe by your definition a few felt that they were raped after the ritual of marriage, but I suggest that the majority felt better off (eventually) than if they their families had been at war with any other nation than the Israelites.

    Look at the nations who want to annihilate Israel today. Do you think those nations will show any remorse for killing all of Israel that are composed of men, women, children and babies? Mankind shows how brutal it can be in all generations. Had Israel not gone on the offensive with God fighting for them, they would have been killed by the inhabitants of the land they were entering. If you have to make a decision as to which people are best fitted to enjoy the land, why not consider Israel the better race. Would the Canaanites have shown more mercy to the Hebrews than the Hebrews showed to the Canaanites? I do not think so.
    Until you admit the Canaanites were reprobates and you start to blame man for all of men's problems, instead of God, I will keep reminding readers of your posts that God is not the one to blame. Blaming the people who wrote of the biblegod is not enough. You are promoting the God of the Bible as evil. The Bible says of God; (Jer 9:24) I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. It is about time you tell of the positive aspects of God and talk about His love to those who also show lovingkindness, wisdom and righteousness to their fellow man and who believe in God and His Son.

    Whether you believe it or not, the Bible shows God as offering us eternal life and what is bad with that? When God has the power to raise to life those who are acceptable and will restore all things and reverse the process of man destroying the earth, then that is good news to promote instead of claiming God is unjust and wicked, when you cannot or do not want to understanding that God is just and is true to His word. God tells us that man will be judged by his works and it is about time that just as you ask me to recognize rape as the brutal act it is, I ask you to start recognizing reprobates as the evil people they were and blame them first before blaming God for their destruction.

    Again, whether you believe it or not, God will set up a kingdom and grant the faithful eternal life on earth in which there will be no evil or injustice no death and no pain and so who else can make you that offer? Reject the offer, if you want to, but do not prevent the young innocent children from coming to God by spreading the message to them that God is evil and He does not exist or that there is nothing to look forward to. You blame God for killing innocent children and yet your rejection of the God of the Bible is effectively killing children by leading children away from God and not teaching them of God's goodness and why it is necessary that we obey God's instruction and love one another and love God as expressed in the two great commandments.

    You will not see it this way, but this is what I fear you are doing, because I do not see anything from you written in a positive way about God, but only negative things. We might think the Bible is speaking to someone else like Jesus did when he spoke against the Pharisees, but in reality the Bible is speaking to us today. The same message that was given to God's chosen people millennia ago is the same message we can learn from today.

    All the best,

    David

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Good morning Rose

    I condemn rape wherever it is done and I support any cause that will help eliminate it, but seeing what is taking place in the world, I do not think there is enough time and there is not enough will to eradicate the problem as with many other problems man has caused, time is running out.

    In the context of marriage of the 32,000 virgins, it was not rape. If I make it appear honorable, it is to counteract your claim that the women did not accept their situation and that they were forced to have sex if they did not want to. You were not there so you cannot say for definite what took place. I concede that a small percentage might have been raped as in a large group of people there are always rebels, but that does not have to go for the majority. I think what I say has equal value to anything you say to the contrary.

    Did Absalom rape David's wives or did David's wives go willingly with Absalom? I think the motives of David's wives was such that their loyalty went with whoever had the power and influence. The wives of King David probably felt safer and better off by going with Absalom.
    These situations are never as clear cut as we might think they are. Of course there would be some of the 32, 000 virgins who would have objected and then they could be divorced. Maybe by your definition a few felt that they were raped after the ritual of marriage, but I suggest that the majority felt better off (eventually) than if they their families had been at war with any other nation than the Israelites.
    Hi David,

    In the case of the 32,000 virgins it was a clear command from Yahweh carried out by Moses. Those women were not given a choice, but were given to the Hebrew soldiers by orders from Moses. These women had no say in the matter and that is the definition of rape, so there is no way you can say it was not rape. It was men who used the women like war booty without ever even considering the feelings of the women, because women were considered property. Anyone knows that if those women were given a choice they would have chosen freedom.

    I am astonished at the way you speak of women's feelings, there is not a woman on the planet who wants to be passed around from man to man to be screwed. Don't you have a wife or a daughter? Would your wife or daughter want to be given to another man to be raped, because you committed some offense in God's eyes. Women have feelings just like you, they are not alien beings that want to have sex with the men who just murdered their families.

    It's time for believers like yourself to stand up and condemn the atrocities that are contained in the Bible. Whether one believes in God or not, does not change what is wrong, and rape is WRONG. Men are the ones who need to speak out and condemn rape wherever it is found, and that means even in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Look at the nations who want to annihilate Israel today. Do you think those nations will show any remorse for killing all of Israel that are composed of men, women, children and babies? Mankind shows how brutal it can be in all generations. Had Israel not gone on the offensive with God fighting for them, they would have been killed by the inhabitants of the land they were entering. If you have to make a decision as to which people are best fitted to enjoy the land, why not consider Israel the better race. Would the Canaanites have shown more mercy to the Hebrews than the Hebrews showed to the Canaanites? I do not think so.
    Until you admit the Canaanites were reprobates and you start to blame man for all of men's problems, instead of God, I will keep reminding readers of your posts that God is not the one to blame. Blaming the people who wrote of the biblegod is not enough. You are promoting the God of the Bible as evil. The Bible says of God; (Jer 9:24) I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. It is about time you tell of the positive aspects of God and talk about His love to those who also show lovingkindness, wisdom and righteousness to their fellow man and who believe in God and His Son.
    The Canaanites could very well have been reprobates, but then so were the Hebrews. The Canaanites offered their children to Moloch and the Hebrews slaughtered the Canaanite children by Yahweh's command...what's the difference? It is accounts like this and all the others in the Bible that has led me to the conclusion that the biblegod does not exist. It is not me who is promoting the biblegod as evil, but rather it is the authors who portray Yahweh in a very evil light. I am only responding to what is written in the pages of Scripture.


    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Whether you believe it or not, the Bible shows God as offering us eternal life and what is bad with that? When God has the power to raise to life those who are acceptable and will restore all things and reverse the process of man destroying the earth, then that is good news to promote instead of claiming God is unjust and wicked, when you cannot or do not want to understanding that God is just and is true to His word. God tells us that man will be judged by his works and it is about time that just as you ask me to recognize rape as the brutal act it is, I ask you to start recognizing reprobates as the evil people they were and blame them first before blaming God for their destruction.

    Again, whether you believe it or not, God will set up a kingdom and grant the faithful eternal life on earth in which there will be no evil or injustice no death and no pain and so who else can make you that offer? Reject the offer, if you want to, but do not prevent the young innocent children from coming to God by spreading the message to them that God is evil and He does not exist or that there is nothing to look forward to. You blame God for killing innocent children and yet your rejection of the God of the Bible is effectively killing children by leading children away from God and not teaching them of God's goodness and why it is necessary that we obey God's instruction and love one another and love God as expressed in the two great commandments.

    You will not see it this way, but this is what I fear you are doing, because I do not see anything from you written in a positive way about God, but only negative things. We might think the Bible is speaking to someone else like Jesus did when he spoke against the Pharisees, but in reality the Bible is speaking to us today. The same message that was given to God's chosen people millennia ago is the same message we can learn from today.

    All the best,

    David
    There are many positive things written in the Bible, and I have said so many times, but there are also just as many or more negatives. I am no longer willing to blind my eyes to the bad and that is why I can no longer believe that the biblegod is the creator of the universe. As I have said many times before, there is no way a male-biased tribal warrior god could be the intelligence behind the cosmos.

    If the Bible is speaking to you today, then it is telling you it is okay to treat women as property, okay to kill a woman's family and give her to the soldiers, and okay to have slaves because that's what the Bible teaches and Jesus never went against any teaching contained in the Bible.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  6. #6
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    Good morning Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi David,

    In the case of the 32,000 virgins it was a clear command from Yahweh carried out by Moses.
    You are forgetting that the instruction was to given to kill everyone and spare none. Harsh as that was, it was a prescriptive measure to eradicate those reprobates from the land so that the Israelites would not be snared. The fact is; the Israelites did not follow instruction and spared the women and children; I thought you might applaud their act of disobedience in sparing these people. Faced with the fact that these people had not been killed, then God permitted those not tainted (the virgins) to be spared, and so the remainder of the women and children were put to death. Neither of us were there to say exactly what was said and explained to the virgins that were saved, but it is not without reasonable speculation that the virgins would have come to know the reason why they had not been killed. They were harsh times, but the virgins had been spared and whilst they suffered the loss of their families, how do we not know,they were not grateful for their lives being spared?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Those women were not given a choice, but were given to the Hebrew soldiers by orders from Moses. These women had no say in the matter and that is the definition of rape, so there is no way you can say it was not rape. It was men who used the women like war booty without ever even considering the feelings of the women, because women were considered property. Anyone knows that if those women were given a choice they would have chosen freedom.
    Not all the virgins were given to the soldiers to be married, so first of all, you must accurately portray what happened. Of those that were given to the soldiers, the women might not have been willing and if they had refused to have sex with their arranged husband, then that would have given the soldier no delight and so he would have divorced her. What you or I say is not going to be true in every case and there will always be the exception, so that in part, whatever we say is likely to have some truth in it. What you say regarding men's warfare, in general, I would agree with you, but you cannot apply this generality in every case and with the 32,000 virgins you make general statements that cannot be supported and the written evidence suggests you are not correct. These 32, 000 virgins were treated with respect, to say differently is to ignore what is written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I am astonished at the way you speak of women's feelings, there is not a woman on the planet who wants to be passed around from man to man to be screwed. Don't you have a wife or a daughter? Would your wife or daughter want to be given to another man to be raped, because you committed some offense in God's eyes. Women have feelings just like you, they are not alien beings that want to have sex with the men who just murdered their families.
    If you are astonished at the way I speak, it is because you are denying certain facts about women. The culture of that day might have been a lot different to as it is to day (in general), but even today, we can find examples to support what we say. In some cultures women are equally as promiscuous as men and this is a shame, because children born as a result are never certain who their true farther is.

    Also, we can think that women who were taken as wives and concubines by the kings is deplorable, yet the women who became wives and concubines were treated well and most would have considered it an honor to be accepted by the king. We have to get this into perspective. Of course women, were not always treated with respect and this is a failing of man and has nothing to do with the way God treats women.

    You are correct in part and I expect that many women at first would not have wanted to marry soldiers who had been responsible for killing their families, but as with examples that can be cited in the last two world wars, reconciliation does take place with some people. A soldier operating under instruction does not make them savages. Soldiers operating under instruction can make very good fathers and I expect those who are married and have children look after their wives and children. Why do you not concede that Israelite soldiers would have made good husbands and looked after their wives. Whilst some of those virgins who were given in marriage might have objected in the first instance when they knew what was going to happen, in time, they would come to see just how fortunate they were considering the alternatives that could have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It's time for believers like yourself to stand up and condemn the atrocities that are contained in the Bible. Whether one believes in God or not, does not change what is wrong, and rape is WRONG. Men are the ones who need to speak out and condemn rape wherever it is found, and that means even in the Bible.
    I will condemn the atrocities of men as recorded in the Bible which are attributable to men when not acting as God's instrument of punishment on a nation. Rape is wrong, we have nothing to disagree with, only the incidents you regard as rape and I do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The Canaanites could very well have been reprobates, but then so were the Hebrews.
    There is no doubt about it, the Canaanites were reprobates and I see you are reluctant to concede the inevitable though I sense you concede a little. What you say about the Hebrews means; either your definition of the word "reprobate" is different to the definition I am using, or else, you have forgotten the Bible you once studied.
    According to one definition found in the dictionary, reprobate means; cast off by God and not worth saving That was the case with the Canaanites, but as to the Hebrews, this was not the case. Yes, the Hebrews had their faults and they were not completely blameless and God did punish them, but God said he would never cast them off completely. (Jer 30:11) For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The Canaanites offered their children to Moloch and the Hebrews slaughtered the Canaanite children by Yahweh's command...what's the difference?
    I am not surprised you want to ask me the question and you do not try to attempt to understand this for yourself. The Canaanite's mindset was that they worshiped gods that did not exist (only they thought the gods existed). The true God does not ask us to sacrifice our children to Him. The Canaanite children were killed only because they would have grown up in the same environment as their parents to have been taught by their parents to do the same thing. It is the same as curing cancer (as has been said by others on many occasions), the whole of the cancer has to be removed or else it can come back. The severe punishment of God that came on the Canaanites and their children was the blame of the parents (not God). God has given instructions to man and has warned man of the consequences for disobedience. God knows what is acceptable behavior and just as you can say to me that offering children to gods is unacceptable behavior, so God was correct to punish that unacceptable behavior in the Canaanite nation. Provided God keeps His word, God cannot be blamed. Show me one case where God has not kept to His word other than where God has been merciful or has listened to the prayers made in intercession for the people, and whereby God has not executed the judgment that would otherwise be due.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It is accounts like this and all the others in the Bible that has led me to the conclusion that the biblegod does not exist. It is not me who is promoting the biblegod as evil, but rather it is the authors who portray Yahweh in a very evil light. I am only responding to what is written in the pages of Scripture.
    It is your "biblegod" that does not exist. The God of the Bible has to be understood correctly and that is what many fail to recognize. God says;"I create evil" and that has to be understood in the correct context, otherwise God is a God who is just; the fact that you do not agree with God's justice does not make God unjust or evil. As I have already quoted and it is worth quoting again so we get the balance of God correct, God says; (Jer 9:24) But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. This is what we need to know and understand and whilst (Rose) you never talk about the lovingkindness of God, or the judgments that He rightly executes, your balance of God is totally one-sided. This is the way you present God, it is not a failing of the Bible which is the inspired word of God and not a man-made work of fiction, as you claim it to be. I would ask you to write something positive about God from what you know the Bible says about God or the biblegod that has been written about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    There are many positive things written in the Bible, and I have said so many times, but there are also just as many or more negatives. I am no longer willing to blind my eyes to the bad and that is why I can no longer believe that the biblegod is the creator of the universe. As I have said many times before, there is no way a male-biased tribal warrior god could be the intelligence behind the cosmos.
    If you have said many positive things about God on this forum, then I have not read them, so please point me to some of your past posts. I do not blind my eyes to the terrible events in the Bible and I understand the justice and judgment of God which is the difference between us. All I can see is you applying the negative filters in your mind and unfortunately, unless you recognize that, nothing about the way you see these things will change. I see the positive as well as the negative in the Bible, and I do not block out parts of it. I balance the Bible to make sense of it, and because I can, I am accused of twisting words, when in fact it is my accusers who deliberately blind themselves to alternative explanations that are plausible and rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    If the Bible is speaking to you today, then it is telling you it is okay to treat women as property, okay to kill a woman's family and give her to the soldiers, and okay to have slaves because that's what the Bible teaches and Jesus never went against any teaching contained in the Bible.
    The Bible does not say that we are free to do any of these things. What is recorded in the Bible is God's execution of judgment on people who were reprobates and this only applies to God and it is not man's judgment to make. God made the judgment and that is why I can explain it in this way. When it comes to a life and death judgment on any individual, it is not mine to make. I have not set the rules, I have not set the instructions. I read the instructions God has given man, and I can see when and where man has not obeyed the instructions. It does not surprise me or shock me that God has judged people to be reprobates and not worth saving. I am thankful to God that I was not amongst those who got destroyed and I am doing my best not to be included amongst those who will be destroyed when God's judgment is poured out on the nations making up this evil world.

    God is merciful and is extending the opportunity to those who will not be blind and deaf to His message. He has on the table the offer of eternal life and that is up to you and I to take up God's offer. I see nothing bad in God for making this offer and I see nothing bad in God destroying all those who do not believe in Him and who do not want to accept what God is offering. For the majority, God is fair and He allows everyone to live by time and chance and to live out their lifespan. You have the freedom to pick and choose what you want to keep and discard and so we should see nothing wrong in God exercising the same choice to pick and choose who He will save.

    All the best,

    David
    Last edited by David M; 08-11-2012 at 02:10 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    An excellent interview of Gloria Steinem by Lauren Wolfe (here).
    There are many reasons why soldiers rape. Male superiority is one thing but from records of soldiers in WW2, we knew that the Russian soldiers rape German women after they occupied Germany at the end of WW2 was mainly as a revenge against the German soldiers raping the Russian women. And their female soldier colleagues even encouraged them. There were also incidents in which soldiers raped so that they could at least have their "generations" in case they died during the war. They also raped as a form of ethnic cleansing in which the babies born were of Russian and German blood and thus unlikely to rebel against the Russian occupiers when they grown up.

    Just for the reverse, do female soldiers rape men? They do for the reasons of having children. The were some recorded incidents in Cambodia during the killing fields in which female Khmer Rouge soldiers raped their male captives before killing them or forced their male captives to marry or have sex with them.

    Women raping men impossible? See for yourself:

    http://www.google.com.sg/#hl=en&outp...w=1128&bih=698

    God Blessed.
    Last edited by CWH; 08-06-2012 at 04:22 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    There are many reasons why soldiers rape. Male superiority is one thing but from records of soldiers in WW2, we knew that the Russian soldiers rape German women after they occupied Germany at the end of WW2 was mainly as a revenge against the German soldiers raping the Russian women. And their female soldier colleagues even encouraged them. There were also incidents in which soldiers raped so that they could at least have their "generations" in case they died during the war. They also raped as a form of ethnic cleansing in which the babies born were of Russian and German blood and thus unlikely to rebel against the Russian occupiers when they grown up.

    Of course there are many "reasons" that men rape women, but all of them are barbaric and unjustified! Instead of trying to come up with reasons why men rape women, you should be raising your voice to condemn rape in any way, shape or form. Rape is NEVER, Never, never justified and the men of the world should rise up with one voice and condemn the barbaric practice of rape. Rape is an affront to the human race that is perpetrated against your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters and your fellow female humans, it does nothing but degrade societies in which men allow these practices to continue without condemnation. Rape could practically be wiped out in a heartbeat if the male leadership of the world (including religious leadership) spoke with one voice and condemned rape as a barbaric practice of uncivilized men.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Just for the reverse, do female soldiers rape men? They do for the reasons of having children. The were some recorded incidents in Cambodia during the killing fields in which female Khmer Rouge soldiers raped their male captives before killing them or forced their male captives to marry or have sex with them.

    Women raping men impossible? See for yourself:

    http://www.google.com.sg/#hl=en&outp...w=1128&bih=698

    God Blessed.

    Did you even read the articles you quoted? The only way a woman can rape a man is by seduction, and that is only considered rape if the male is underage. Penetration cannot occur unless a man has an erection which can only happen through arousal, so there is no way a woman can force a man to have intercourse with her unless he is willing. Of course males rape other males all the time, because the male doing the raping is aroused.


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Of course there are many "reasons" that men rape women, but all of them are barbaric and unjustified! Instead of trying to come up with reasons why men rape women, you should be raising your voice to condemn rape in any way, shape or form. Rape is NEVER, Never, never justified and the men of the world should rise up with one voice and condemn the barbaric practice of rape. Rape is an affront to the human race that is perpetrated against your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters and your fellow female humans, it does nothing but degrade societies in which men allow these practices to continue without condemnation. Rape could practically be wiped out in a heartbeat if the male leadership of the world (including religious leadership) spoke with one voice and condemned rape as a barbaric practice of uncivilized men.

    Did you even read the articles you quoted? The only way a woman can rape a man is by seduction, and that is only considered rape if the male is underage. Penetration cannot occur unless a man has an erection which can only happen through arousal, so there is no way a woman can force a man to have intercourse with her unless he is willing. Of course males rape other males all the time, because the male doing the raping is aroused.


    Rose
    Of course, I don't support rape of all kinds. But is it possible to get rid of rape? As long as there is lust of the flesh, it is humanly impossible. Therefore, to get rid of rape is to get rid of lust....pornography, sex toys, nudity, homosexuality, prostituition, fornication, promiscuity, adultery, one-night stand etc. Possible?.....

    I have also shows that not only men rape women, there are cases where women rape men and some can be equally brutal as in the case of Cambodian female Khmer Rouge soldiers pointing a gun at their male captives and forcing them to have sex with them. The male captives were likely killed after that. Women raping male is very humiliating from the male victim's perspective. If someone pointing a gun at you and forcing you to rape men and boys or be killed, would you do it? There are of course other types of rapes..... men to men, women to women. You must get rid of LUST first before you can get rid of rape.

    May God help us get rid of lust and lead us not into temptations.
    Last edited by CWH; 08-06-2012 at 07:53 PM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Of course, I don't support rape of all kinds. But is it possible to get rid of rape? As long as there is lust of the flesh, it is humanly impossible. Therefore, to get rid of rape is to get rid of lust....pornography, sex toys, nudity, homosexuality, prostituition, fornication, promiscuity, adultery, one-night stand etc. Possible?.....

    I have also shows that not only men rape women, there are cases where women rape men and some can be equally brutal as in the case of Cambodian female Khmer Rouge soldiers pointing a gun at their male captives and forcing them to have sex with them. The male captives were likely killed after that. Women raping male is very humiliating from the male victim's perspective. If someone pointing a gun at you and forcing you to rape men and boys or be killed, would you do it? There are of course other types of rapes..... men to men, women to women. You must get rid of LUST first before you can get rid of rape.

    May God help us get rid of lust and lead us not into temptations.
    The question remains unanswered. Why is it that rarely does on hear any Christian teacher stand up and condemn the horrendous accounts of rape recorded in the Bible? If rape is wrong when it occurs outside of the Bible then it is wrong when it occurs inside the Bible. Rape is a violation of a woman's human rights and should be condemned, yet I have never in all my reading and study ever found one Christian man stand up and say it was WRONG for Moses to command that all the Midianites be slaughtered EXCEPT for the virgin girls, and then distribute them among the male soldiers. The reason they can't say it is wrong is because Yahweh ordered Moses to do it!

    If the Midianites were so wicked and perverse, why save the virgins and give them to the men for child bearing? It makes no sense! Rape is ALWAYS, Always, always wrong, even when God commands it in the Bible, and it's about time people start standing up a speaking TRUTH.


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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