Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 56
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Daytona
    Posts
    1,855

    Post Twins in the Bible

    TWINS IN THE BIBLE

    1) The most familiar are Esau and Jacob, Gen25:23, and the peculiar focus on their order of birth, with the body-language expression of Jacob grabbing the heel of the firstborn Esau. Gen 25:23 KJV "And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger".

    2) Then comes the twins born of Tamar in the parenthetical chapter 38 of Genesis. The scandalous story of Judah fathering Zarah and Pharez puts a special emphasis on the order of their birth when the midwife ties a scarlet thread to the firstborn (the one who first opens the womb).
    Further reading reveals how Pharez is in the genealogy of David, but the line of Zarah is wiped out by Achan at Jericho. Josh7:1

    3) Not a twin in the same sense, but Castor and Pollux, the Gemeni twins, are mentioned in Acts28:11. A book by E.W.Bullinger "The Witness of the Stars", narrates how the 12 constellations of the Zodiac told the story of the coming of Christ in those ages before writing came into being.

    4) Was the Apostle Thomas a twin? He was also called Didymus (means "twin"), although I find no record of his brother anywhere. John11:16, 20:24, 21:2.

    5) Manasseh and Ephraim, Gen41:51, are never thought of as twins, but having a father named Joseph and a grand-father named Jacob,calls to mind the same heritage of Mary in Matthew 1:16. Doesn't it? Or maybe not?

    6) Triplets? The sons of Noah are a possibility. Ham is called the younger, and Japheth the elder, but that info may only indicate the order of their birth. Gen9:24, 10:21

    Like Solomon sang, 7:3, Did I get all the juice from this orange ??
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    15,148
    The theme of two brothers is very interesting in the Bible. The blessing often goes to the younger which is an inversion of the normal order.

    Ishmael was Abraham's firstborn, but the blessing went to Isaac.

    Esau was Isaac's firstborn, but the blessing went to Jacob.

    I haven't thought about this for a while, but it seemed like there was some sort of pattern here.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,627
    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    TWINS IN THE BIBLE

    1) The most familiar are Esau and Jacob, Gen25:23, and the peculiar focus on their order of birth, with the body-language expression of Jacob grabbing the heel of the firstborn Esau. Gen 25:23 KJV "And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger".

    2) Then comes the twins born of Tamar in the parenthetical chapter 38 of Genesis. The scandalous story of Judah fathering Zarah and Pharez puts a special emphasis on the order of their birth when the midwife ties a scarlet thread to the firstborn (the one who first opens the womb).
    Further reading reveals how Pharez is in the genealogy of David, but the line of Zarah is wiped out by Achan at Jericho. Josh7:1

    3) Not a twin in the same sense, but Castor and Pollux, the Gemeni twins, are mentioned in Acts28:11. A book by E.W.Bullinger "The Witness of the Stars", narrates how the 12 constellations of the Zodiac told the story of the coming of Christ in those ages before writing came into being.

    4) Was the Apostle Thomas a twin? He was also called Didymus (means "twin"), although I find no record of his brother anywhere. John11:16, 20:24, 21:2.

    5) Manasseh and Ephraim, Gen41:51, are never thought of as twins, but having a father named Joseph and a grand-father named Jacob,calls to mind the same heritage of Mary in Matthew 1:16. Doesn't it? Or maybe not?

    6) Triplets? The sons of Noah are a possibility. Ham is called the younger, and Japheth the elder, but that info may only indicate the order of their birth. Gen9:24, 10:21

    Like Solomon sang, 7:3, Did I get all the juice from this orange ??
    Interesting,
    Genesis 25:24,
    And her days to give birth were completed, and behold, there were twins in her womb.

    Rashi:
    there were twins in her womb: [תוֹמִם is spelled] defectively [missing an “aleph” and“yud”], but concerning Tamar, it is written תְּאוֹמִים, with the plene spelling, [with an “aleph” and“yud”] because they (Perez and Zerah) were both righteous, but here, one was righteous and one was wicked. — [From Gen. Rabbah 63:8]
    And strange, v. 22 makes already mention of "sons within her":
    And the children struggled within her, and she said, "If [it be] so, why am I [like] this?" And she went to inquire of the Lord.

    Rashi:
    struggled: Perforce, this verse calls for a Midrashic interpretation, for it does not explain what this struggling was all about, and [Scripture] wrote,“If it be so, why am I [like] this?” Our Rabbis (Gen. Rabbah 63:6) interpreted it [the word וַיִתְרוֹצִצוּ] as an expression of running (רוֹצָה) . When she passed by the entrances of [the] Torah [academies] of Shem and Eber, Jacob would run and struggle to come out; when she passed the entrance of [a temple of] idolatry, Esau would run and struggle to come out.
    Maybe that's why her name was Rivkah (Rebecca), because it is cognate to "r'veikah"= team (two or three animals yoked together).
    For sure she did hold the reins.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,627
    Via google you'll always find your own hobby horses:


    http://www.google.nl/search?q=Rivkah...w=1280&bih=820

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,627
    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post

    6) Triplets? The sons of Noah are a possibility. Ham is called the younger, and Japheth the elder, but that info may only indicate the order of their birth. Gen9:24, 10:21
    Genesis 11:10
    These are the generations of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and he begot Arpachshad, two years after the Flood.

    "Two years after the flood" - that must be the year 1658.
    So Shem was born in 1558.

    Genesis 5:32,
    And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

    Genesis 8:6,
    And Noah was six hundred years old, and the flood came about, water upon the earth

    So they did'nt form a triplet ..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Daytona
    Posts
    1,855
    The late-age birthdays of Noah's sons makes me compare to Abraham's old-age 'miracle'.

    Nothing I see to prevent the 3 boys from being triplets -- no matter how old each made it.. Agree with 1658 being 2 yrs. after Deluge (tho 1 yr. flood), and then sounds like Shem could've had discussion with Abraham! But the numbers get very confusing along here..
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,627
    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    The late-age birthdays of Noah's sons makes me compare to Abraham's old-age 'miracle'.

    Nothing I see to prevent the 3 boys from being triplets -- no matter how old each made it.. Agree with 1658 being 2 yrs. after Deluge (tho 1 yr. flood), and then sounds like Shem could've had discussion with Abraham! But the numbers get very confusing along here..
    MalkiTzedek is said to have been Shem.

    Abraham was born in 1948, so by then Shem was 390 years old.

    The war of the four kings against the five, where Abraham gained victory in favor of the five, must have taken place when Abraham was 70 years old, since immediately thereafter the covenant between the pieces took place (Genesis 15), Shem being 460 years old by that time.
    Last edited by sylvius; 07-09-2012 at 09:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Daytona
    Posts
    1,855

    Oh yes, Sylvius, Shem seems to have outlived all of that '2nd Ten' generation group. I've heard of him being Melchizedek but don't think much of it -- rather like to point out the thousand years from the cameo intro in Gen. to Ps110, and then ANOTHER thousand years to Heb6-9.

    What kind of gouge are you using that gives you the mileage comparison between Shem and Abram? Too much figuring to suit me. hah!
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,627
    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post

    Oh yes, Sylvius, Shem seems to have outlived all of that '2nd Ten' generation group. I've heard of him being Melchizedek but don't think much of it -- rather like to point out the thousand years from the cameo intro in Gen. to Ps110, and then ANOTHER thousand years to Heb6-9.

    What kind of gouge are you using that gives you the mileage comparison between Shem and Abram? Too much figuring to suit me. hah!
    You can reckon it after.

    http://mordochai.tripod.com/#top

    Chronology of the Hebrew Bible


    Adam died in the year 930;
    Shet was born in 130 and died in 1042;
    Enosh was born in 235 and died in 1140;
    Keinan was born in 325 and died in 1235;
    Mahalal'el was born in 395 and died in 1290;
    Yered was born in 460 and died in 1422


    Hanoch was born in 622 and then "was no more because God had taken him" in 987;

    M'tushelah was born in 687 and died in 1656;
    Lemech was born in 874 and died in 1651;
    No'ah was born in 1056;


    and the oldest of No'ah’s three sons was born in 1556.

    But which of the three was the oldest? Certainly not Ham, who is referred to explicitly as being No'ah’s
    "youngest" son in B'réshit 9:24. This leaves Shem and Yefet (and also forces the conclusion that the sons
    are not being named in age-order in B'réshit 5:32 and 6:10, or in Divrei Hayamim Alef 1:4). So was
    Shem the oldest of the three brothers, or was it Yefet? B'réshit 10:21 says

    [Children] were also born to Shem—[he was] the ancestor of all Éver’s children…

    but unfortunately the final phrase of the verse (ahi yefet hagadol) is ambiguous—it could mean EITHER
    "…Yefet the Elder’s brother" OR "…Yefet’s older brother". The ambiguity is resolved by B'réshit 11:10,
    which tells us that

    …Shem was 100 years old when he gave birth to Arpach'shad, two years after the Flood.

    This means that Shem was born 98 years before the Flood (in 1558), and hence two years after Yefet,
    who was therefore the first son to be born, in 1556, and was thus the oldest of the three brothers.

    The Flood itself began on "the 17th day of the 2nd month in the 600th year of No'ah’s life" (B'réshit
    7:11) and ended on "the 27th day of the 2nd month" (B'réshit 8:14) "in his 601st year" (B'réshit 8:13)—

    i.e. in 1656 and 1657, respectively. The total duration of the whole event, based on these dates, was
    therefore a complete "calendar" year, plus an additional eleven days. That may not seem very significant
    at first sight, but it should be remembered that a "calendar" year in Biblical terms means 12 lunar
    months, or 354 days (because the average length of a lunar month is roughly 29½ days). Thus the total
    duration of the whole Flood event, based on the dates given in B'réshit 7:11 and 8:13-14, amounted to
    365 days—the precise length of a solar year.
    No'ah lived 350 years after [the beginning of] the Flood (B'réshit 9:28), and died at the age of 950
    (B'réshit 9:29)—in the year 2006.

    No'ah died in the year 2006;

    Shem was born in 1558 and died in 2158;
    Arpach'shad was born in 1658 and died in 2096;
    Shelah was born in 1693 and died in 2126;
    Éver was born in 1723 and died in 2187;


    Peleg was born in 1757 and died in 1996;
    R'u was born in 1787 and died in 2026;
    S'rug was born in 1819 and died in 2049;


    Nahor was born in 1849 and died in 1997;

    Terah was born in 1878 and died in 2083;
    and Avram was born in 1948.
    Last edited by sylvius; 07-09-2012 at 10:14 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    15,148
    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Via google you'll always find your own hobby horses:


    http://www.google.nl/search?q=Rivkah...w=1280&bih=820
    Very true. And you can also see if anyone else is interested in your "hobby horse" by looking at how many pages Google returns. In your case, it returned three pages. Searching for things that relate to my "hobby horse" such as Bible Symmetry yields 1.3 MILLION pages, and my article titled The Canon Wheel comes up in postition #1 at the top of the first page.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •