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Poll: Eschatology Advancement (Years & Degrees)

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    981

    The Web Advancing Eschatology

    I would like to know how much has the Web or the BibleWheel advanced your eschatology? As for myself I joined the BibleWheel in 07-15-2010 as a beginner in Partial Preterism and then later Full Preterism. I would say the time before 2009 I considered myself a Futurist, about 3 years I have advanced my understand from Futurism to Preterism.

    I hear from others that have advanced in the same way, but have been a Preterist for over 5-10 years. I am just wondering how has the Web with sites like the BibleWheel and other's made such an impact in advancing eschatology. Addition to all the materials that the Web have available there's no need to depent on some scholar, but one can study for themsevles much like in the time of the Reformation.

    So how much has the Web advanced your Eschatology? [I pose this poll for those that have advanced from futurist to preterist, but all can vote]
    Beck

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
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    14,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    I would like to know how much has the Web or the BibleWheel advanced your eschatology? As for myself I joined the BibleWheel in 07-15-2010 as a beginner in Partial Preterism and then later Full Preterism. I would say the time before 2009 I considered myself a Futurist, about 3 years I have advanced my understand from Futurism to Preterism.

    I hear from others that have advanced in the same way, but have been a Preterist for over 5-10 years. I am just wondering how has the Web with sites like the BibleWheel and other's made such an impact in advancing eschatology. Addition to all the materials that the Web have available there's no need to depent on some scholar, but one can study for themsevles much like in the time of the Reformation.

    So how much has the Web advanced your Eschatology? [I pose this poll for those that have advanced from futurist to preterist, but all can vote]
    Great questions Beck!

    I started this forum in June 2007 after studying the entire Bible in great depth to write the Bible Wheel book (which reviewed the content of every book of the Bible). My primary interests were patterns in the Bible that revealed its supernatural unity and proved its divine origin. I was never much interested in eschatology because I saw how confused it was and how Futurists made up ridiculous theories and constantly made false predictions about the rapture and the second coming. So I adopted a rather vague opinion about it all. I was partial towards the "Already/Not Yet" interpretation, and leaned a bit towards the Idealist interpretation. I held to the standard Futurist ideas that there would be a Second Coming and a Final Judgment though that was by "default" - I never really analyzed the evidence for those positions.

    I cut my "eschatological teeth" here on this forum. I don't think I knew much, if anything, about Preterism when I started it. I was pretty much "forced" to study eschatology because that's what most of the people who came here wanted to talk about. Most were staunch Futurists. So I began checking what they said and found their doctrines had little or no support in the Bible, and many of their doctrines were pure fantasy and some directly contradicted the Biblical text. The more we debated, the more it became clear that Futurism was simply impossible and that Full Preterism was the "best fit" to the Biblical data.

    But all the debate had an unanticipated consequence. The contradiction between what Christians believe and what the Bible actually teaches opened my eyes to see that there is no such thing as "Christianity." It's just a broad rubric for people who are interested in the Bible. They all have very different opinions yet they all think they were "saved." This is what ultimately freed me from the idea that a person needs to be a "Christian" and to be "saved."

    My transformation into an ex-Christian was catalyzed by debating Christians on this forum. I have been completely open and honest and willing to admit when I am wrong. But no one has been able to give me any good reason to think I am wrong about my conviction that all dogmatic religions are false. And as the debates continue, my conviction continues to grow only stronger. I now cannot imagine how anyone could believe any dogmatic religion. It is impossible for me to believe that any of those religions could be from the true God.

    Thanks for the great questions. I hope other join in.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mio, Michigan
    Posts
    416
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Great questions Beck!

    I hope other join in.

    Richard
    Thank-you Richard for creating a space for spiritual and secular free thinkers. I'm sure many Bible students will uncover plenty of food for thought if they take the time to read through the many topics posted here. It has been a healthy challenge to my own presuppositions of Biblical Truth, and I have gained much needed discernment to help me to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

    I must admit that it came as a shock to me when Richard and Rose both discarded their faith in the Scriptures, based on their personal resolutions, but perhaps, unbeknownst to them, God has used their arguments against the Bible to reinforce the faith of others! Personally, I have been challenged to review several of the OT passages revealing the character of the OT Bible God that I had merely skimmed over in the past. Have I resolved them all to my satisfaction... No way. But what I have resolved is that there is much to be resolved in all disciplines of life and why should the Bible be any different. If it contains a portion of the Mind of God, which I accept by faith that it does, then I am confident God will bring harmony to all in the final accounting of human history and government.

    If I am a "Futurist" it is because I'm forced to conclude, by sufficient evidence, that this world's failing governmental systems instituted by men must terminate at some future date. It simply has exhibited nothing but repeated failures and cannot continue in the absence of Divine Intervention. Men governing other men, often in cruelty, rulers living a life of luxury at the expense of the poor who've been deprived of an opportunity to earn life's minimal necessities. Men sentencing other men to death in war to either defend their worldly accumulations, or to acquire by force, the acquisitions of others. These are unrestrained failures with no man-made remedy in sight.

    And now, over the last 100 years, technology has been let out of the box, and with no sign of nuclear disarmament, but rather an escalation thereof, history suggests that the next major conflict will likely be the holocaust of earth. Who can prevent it? Only Somebody bigger than you and I.

    John

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
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    14,793
    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    Thank-you Richard for creating a space for spiritual and secular free thinkers. I'm sure many Bible students will uncover plenty of food for thought if they take the time to read through the many topics posted here. It has been a healthy challenge to my own presuppositions of Biblical Truth, and I have gained much needed discernment to help me to rightly divide the Word of Truth.
    Hey there John,

    Those are very encouraging words. Despite our differences, I like to think we have exactly the same goal - the pursuit and articulation of truth that we can really believe in.

    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    I must admit that it came as a shock to me when Richard and Rose both discarded their faith in the Scriptures, based on their personal resolutions, but perhaps, unbeknownst to them, God has used their arguments against the Bible to reinforce the faith of others! Personally, I have been challenged to review several of the OT passages revealing the character of the OT Bible God that I had merely skimmed over in the past. Have I resolved them all to my satisfaction... No way. But what I have resolved is that there is much to be resolved in all disciplines of life and why should the Bible be any different. If it contains a portion of the Mind of God, which I accept by faith that it does, then I am confident God will bring harmony to all in the final accounting of human history and government.
    I too merely "skimmed over" the problematic passages when I was so enamored by the "glory and light" in the Bible. It now seems a mystery how I could have been so blind. The one thing I regret is that no one ever challenged me on those issues when I was a believer. I wish I had a record of how I would have responded. As it is, I merely brushed them aside because I felt I had overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence for the divine inspiration of the Bible as a whole which trumped any little problems of interpretation here or there. But that solution cannot withstand serious scrutiny. I was forced to accept either a horror or a mystery. If the Bible really is the Word of God (as is strongly supported by the Bible Wheel) then I must accept that God's character horrifies me and is not "good" by any normal meaning of that word. But if I reject the Bible as the Word of God, then I am left with the mystery of the Bible Wheel. I have settled on the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    If I am a "Futurist" it is because I'm forced to conclude, by sufficient evidence, that this world's failing governmental systems instituted by men must terminate at some future date. It simply has exhibited nothing but repeated failures and cannot continue in the absence of Divine Intervention. Men governing other men, often in cruelty, rulers living a life of luxury at the expense of the poor who've been deprived of an opportunity to earn life's minimal necessities. Men sentencing other men to death in war to either defend their worldly accumulations, or to acquire by force, the acquisitions of others. These are unrestrained failures with no man-made remedy in sight.

    And now, over the last 100 years, technology has been let out of the box, and with no sign of nuclear disarmament, but rather an escalation thereof, history suggests that the next major conflict will likely be the holocaust of earth. Who can prevent it? Only Somebody bigger than you and I.

    John
    Your argument seems fundamentally fallacious to me. The truth or falsehood of "Futurism" is determined by what the Bible says. It has nothing to do with "this world's failing governmental systems." Indeed, Christians have believed that the "governmental systems" have always been "failing" for the last 2000 years. Therefore, it makes no sense to use that as any kind of "proof" of an eschatological interpretation.

    I believe your pessimistic view is a symptom of your apocalyptic religion, and indeed, it is such religions - Christianity and Islam - that have perpetrated the very problems for which they claim to be the only solution! How's that for irony?

    I really appreciate your contributions to this forum John. They are thoughtful and sincere, and you are willing to engage folks with different points of view.

    All the very best to you and yours,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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