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  1. #1
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    What's the best evidence for evolution?

    This is the second post in a new "What is the best evidence for ..." series of threads. The idea is based on my definition of a "true Truth Seeker." True Truth Seekers are people who are able and willing to state the best evidence for the opposing view. Many, if not most, internet discussions have little to do with truth seeking. They are usually dominated by people trying to convince others of their own opinions. The debaters simply talk past each other and refuse to admit any truth if it doesn't support their own presuppositions. I want to move past that to authentic discourse that will lead to solid, justifiable conclusions based on logic and facts.

    This thread is to give folks who reject evolution an opportunity to show that they are "true Truth Seekers" who have a solid grasp of the theory that reject.

    So get to it! What is the best evidence for evolution? And what are the reasons you reject that evidence?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    This is the second post in a new "What is the best evidence for ..." series of threads. The idea is based on my definition of a "true Truth Seeker." True Truth Seekers are people who are able and willing to state the best evidence for the opposing view. Many, if not most, internet discussions have little to do with truth seeking. They are usually dominated by people trying to convince others of their own opinions. The debaters simply talk past each other and refuse to admit any truth if it doesn't support their own presuppositions. I want to move past that to authentic discourse that will lead to solid, justifiable conclusions based on logic and facts.

    This thread is to give folks who reject evolution an opportunity to show that they are "true Truth Seekers" who have a solid grasp of the theory that reject.

    So get to it! What is the best evidence for evolution? And what are the reasons you reject that evidence?
    Why are all the creationists so quiet?

    There are folks on this forum who have loudly proclaimed "evolution is bullshit." Certainly such folks have a good grasp of the theory and can clearly state the two or three best arguments for it.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Why are all the creationists so quiet?

    There are folks on this forum who have loudly proclaimed "evolution is bullshit." Certainly such folks have a good grasp of the theory and can clearly state the two or three best arguments for it.
    Let me speak for myself. In the past i've seen many videos in the church and with friends. But my interest just died out as well as many around me after a while. I've watched Kent Hovind mostly.

    I was more interested in reading books on conspiracy than on evolution/creation. But someone asked, "How can we prove it's true?" Of course he didn't bother reading such books and tried the throw me in doubt. But I realized that the same question can be asked to what interested him: creationism: "How can we prove it's true?" It's by reading, debating, comparing, studying...if you're interested. Not everyone's interested.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Why are all the creationists so quiet?

    There are folks on this forum who have loudly proclaimed "evolution is bullshit." Certainly such folks have a good grasp of the theory and can clearly state the two or three best arguments for it.
    Good morning Richard

    Not quite sure what you are asking here. By evolution vs creation are you suggesting that there is no creator for creation?

    John

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    An orderly and scientific mind may be skeptical of the Biblical account that describes how we're all descended from the 3 sons of Noah, but any good encyclopedia documents the 3 races of mankind: the Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid are categories established by anthropologists who weren't necessarily pro-Christian. The stereotypes of these races today are undoubtedly the product of evolution and inbreeding, but the contention is actually moot, because all of us are descended from Adam, through Noah; and so even the 3 branches are derived from that one seed.

    "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life", 2Cor3:6. It's the "Letter of the Law" that says you must dot the i's and cross the t's, and teaches good grammar; but it's the spirit of love that reads the epistles without condemnation or prejudice, even when errors seem evident. The O.T. Law said "If you sin, you die", and called for specific procedures, but the N.T. spirit says "Come and be forgiven", and gives you incentive and an example to follow. The threat of the Law didn't stop the sin, for that requires a change of heart. Lowering the speed limit isn't likely to effect driving habits of rebellious individuals -- they have to acknowledge to themselves that the LAW is good, and resolve to change their ways.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    Good morning Richard

    Not quite sure what you are asking here. By evolution vs creation are you suggesting that there is no creator for creation?

    John
    I made no suggestion about God at all. There may or may not be a god. That doesn't have anything to do with scientific questions about observable reality. You don't think that the theory of electromagnetism suggests there is no creator, do you?

    There are Christians who believe in both God and evolution so that question is irrelevant. We are talking about scientific evidence here. This thread is designed to see if people who reject evolution have any clue at all about the advanced scientific theory that they reject.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I made no suggestion about God at all. There may or may not be a god. That doesn't have anything to do with scientific questions about observable reality. You don't think that the theory of electromagnetism suggests there is no creator, do you?.
    Not sure what to make of the double negative in your question. Let me give it a shot, "I don't think that the theory of electromagnetism suggests there is no creator". Perhaps I could agree with your position on this.

    Your friend

    John
    Last edited by jce; 06-28-2012 at 05:41 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    Not sure what to make of the double negative in your question. Let me give it a shot, "I don't think that the theory of electromagnetism suggests there is no creator". Perhaps I could agree with your position on this.

    Your friend

    John
    Hey there John,

    You had asked: "By evolution vs creation are you suggesting that there is no creator for creation?"

    My answer was meant to be "No. There is no connection between evolution and the concept of a creator."

    Here's how you deal with double negatives:

    Consider a proposition P. If I say "You don't think P?" you only need to say ask "What is P?". P is the proposition that "electromagnetism suggests there is no creator." Do you agree with P? Of course not. There is no connection between the science of electromagentism and the idea of a creator.

    Therefore, you DON'T THINK P.

    Now just change "electromagentism" to "evolution." Do you agree that "evolution suggests there is no creator"? I hope not, since that would be a big mistake. The science of evolution has nothing to do with whether or not there is a creator. Therefore, you DON'T THINK P.

    That was the answer I was trying to communicate. I guess I could have done it in a clearer fashion.

    But now I would really like to know if you have any opinion about evolution at all. If not, then you don't need to answer my opening post. But if you reject evolution then you must be able to state what the theory is and why scientists think it is valid. Otherwise, you will be exposed as an ignorant dogamatist. And that's good! Because understanding that you are believing something for no good reason other than ignorant dogmatism is the first step to FREEDOM! And that's what I'm hoping you will find.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Why are all the creationists so quiet?

    There are folks on this forum who have loudly proclaimed "evolution is bullshit." Certainly such folks have a good grasp of the theory and can clearly state the two or three best arguments for it.
    Hello Richard
    The title of the thread is; 'What's the best evidence for evolution?' How do you expect creationists to give evidence of something they do not believe. The best evidence has to come from evolutionists.

    You might rephrase the title to; 'What's the best evidence against evolution?' and then you will get creationists to respond.


    David

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Richard
    The title of the thread is; 'What's the best evidence for evolution?' How do you expect creationists to give evidence of something they do not believe. The best evidence has to come from evolutionists.

    You might rephrase the title to; 'What's the best evidence against evolution?' and then you will get creationists to respond.


    David
    David,

    Your question exemplifies the fundamental creationist error. Creationism is based on GROSS IGNORANCE of science, plain and simple. They claim to understand the theory of evolution and to reject it because it is flawed on evidential grounds. But if they don't have a clue about anything the theory actually states they will be revealed to be fools of the first order. This is why I started the "What's the best evidence for ..." series. It reveals who is really seeking truth and who is just parroting talking points about things of which they are totally ignorant.

    Did you read my OP? Here it is again:
    This is the second post in a new "What is the best evidence for ..." series of threads. The idea is based on my definition of a "true Truth Seeker." True Truth Seekers are people who are able and willing to state the best evidence for the opposing view. Many, if not most, internet discussions have little to do with truth seeking. They are usually dominated by people trying to convince others of their own opinions. The debaters simply talk past each other and refuse to admit any truth if it doesn't support their own presuppositions. I want to move past that to authentic discourse that will lead to solid, justifiable conclusions based on logic and facts.

    This thread is to give folks who reject evolution an opportunity to show that they are "true Truth Seekers" who have a solid grasp of the theory that reject.
    Do you now understand my logic?

    All the best,

    Richard


    It's like some hill billy who can't add 1 + 2 but who confidently declares that calculus is bullshit. Why do I have to explain this?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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