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  1. #1
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    Is Sex before marriage immoral?

    If sex before marriage immoral? I think so. Let's discuss.

    God Blessed.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-05-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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    I am thinking around these questions, my answer is in red, This may help you all to vote:

    1. Is the Bible against pre-marital sex? Yes, many scriptures in the OT seems to imply so.

    2. Is virginity important? Yes, the hymen is there to protect young girls till a certain mature age.

    3. Will encouragement of premarital sex leads to promiscuity? I believe so as it progressively encourages the young to experience sex at a younger age and with multiple partners leading to sexually transmitted diseases and abortions

    4. Is premarital sex ok if done out of love instead of out of lust? It seems ok if done out of love. But how can one differentiate between sex done out of love or lust especially in the heat of romance? It may provide a pretext for free love = free sex.

    5, Premarital sex with many girlfriends or boyfriends any different from fornication? Yes, it is fornication according to the definition. And fornication is lust.

    6. Is one obliged to marry the one that you first have sex with? Yes, whenever possible as that will be fair especially for the girl who gave her virginity out of love to the man. Both have a mutual understanding that it was done out of love with a promise of a future marriage.

    7. Is consensual sex with underage girls ok? No, it will be consider as constituitional rape. The law is there to protect vulnerable underage pre-mature girls.

    8. Do men prefer their future bride to be a virgin? Of course, if possible.


    God Bless
    Last edited by CWH; 05-05-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    If sex before marriage immoral? I think so. Let's discuss.

    God Blessed.
    CWH,

    This is a great question, but first lets determine the standard rule and that would be what?
    Beck

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I am thinking around these questions, my answer is in red, This may help you all to vote:

    1. Is the Bible against pre-marital sex? Yes, many scriptures in the OT seems to imply so.

    2. Is virginity important? Yes, the hymen is there to protect young girls till a certain mature age.

    3. Will encouragement of premarital sex leads to promiscuity? I believe so as it progressively encourages the young to experience sex at a younger age and with multiple partners leading to sexually transmitted diseases and abortions

    4. Is premarital sex ok if done out of love instead of out of lust? It seems ok if done out of love. But how can one differentiate between sex done out of love or lust especially in the heat of romance? It may provide a pretext for free love = free sex.

    5, Premarital sex with many girlfriends or boyfriends any different from fornication? Yes, it is fornication according to the definition. And fornication is lust.

    6. Is one obliged to marry the one that you first have sex with? Yes, whenever possible as that will be fair especially for the girl who gave her virginity out of love to the man. Both have a mutual understanding that it was done out of love with a promise of a future marriage.

    7. Is consensual sex with underage girls ok? No, it will be consider as constituitional rape. The law is there to protect vulnerable underage pre-mature girls.

    8. Do men prefer their future bride to be a virgin? Of course, if possible.


    God Bless
    1. Is the Bible against pre-marital sex? In keeping with the male bias of the Bible premarital sex is only wrong for the female, a man can visit a prostitute whenever he wants before he marries.

    2. Is virginity important? Again, according to the Bible virginity is only important for the woman, it doesn't matter if a man is a virgin or not.

    3. Will encouragement of premarital sex leads to promiscuity? Biblically speaking it doesn't matter because men could have as many wives and concubines as they wanted.

    4. Is premarital sex ok if done out of love instead of out of lust? Once again, according to the Bible it's fine either way for the man, he can lust after a captured woman and keep her for sex if he wants and then get rid of her once he is tired of her.

    5. Premarital sex with many girlfriends or boyfriends any different from fornication? It doesn't matter what it's called because Yahweh has a double standard for men and women. Men can have premarital sex whenever they want by visiting a prostitute, but a woman must remain a virgin or get stoned to death. Duet.22:13-14

    6. Is one obliged to marry the one that you first have sex with? In the Bible a man must marry a woman that he rapes, but then he can divorce if he doesn't like her.

    7. Is consensual sex with underage girls ok? The Bible doesn't specify the age a girl needs to be to marry as long as the father is willing to sell his daughter to a man for a wife...remember the girl has no say in the matter.

    8. Do men prefer their future bride to be a virgin? Of course men demand a virgin bride, but it doesn't matter if the man is a virgin according to the Bible.
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  5. #5
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    I regret flaring up Rose's obsession on male bias. My thread is more related to modern issues than those in the Bible. OK, I am going to respond in both Biblical AND modern issues in relating to is premarital sex immoral. Here's my reply in red:

    [QUOTE=Rose;43796]1. Is the Bible against pre-marital sex? In keeping with the male bias of the Bible premarital sex is only wrong for the female, a man can visit a prostitute whenever he wants before he marries.
    Biblical: In the Bible, there is no mention of premarital sex is wrong except that if a man have sex with a virgin, he will need to marry her. And there were temple prostitutes and the hospitality gesture of offering their daughters for sex. Neither does the ten commandments say "Thou shall not have sex before marriage".

    Modern: So can a female visit male prostitutes if she wanted or have sex with any man if she wanted if she is promiscuous.


    2. Is virginity important? Again, according to the Bible virginity is only important for the woman, it doesn't matter if a man is a virgin or not.
    Bible: The reason why female virginity is important is because of purity which is more preferable by the men but that did not mean a non-virgin cannot marry.

    Modern: Are you saying that virginity in the modern world is not important? It may be less important from the purity point of view but still men prefers virgin women.


    3. Will encouragement of premarital sex leads to promiscuity? Biblically speaking it doesn't matter because men could have as many wives and concubines as they wanted.
    Bible: Man can have any wives as he can but that depends on whether he can afford financially. I see polygamy in the Bible not as lust but as a need to ensure procreation as most of these men died young due to wars and hard labors and infant mortality was high. Polygamy is not equals to promiscuity.

    Modern : Polygamy is allowed in certain cultures and it is also based on affordability. However those men who live in a single marriage society overcome the limitation of single marriage by many ingenious ways by seeking prostitutes, adultery, divorce and remarry, one-night-stand, wife swapping etc. That modern behavior is equals to promiscuity.


    4. Is premarital sex ok if done out of love instead of out of lust? Once again, according to the Bible it's fine either way for the man, he can lust after a captured woman and keep her for sex if he wants and then get rid of her once he is tired of her.
    Bible: It is not lust as I have explained but the need to ensure procreation as these men will die young and infant mortality was high. If the man is tired of her and "rid" her, he usually has to ensure her well-being such as some compensation etc.

    Modern: If a man wants to "rid" his wife, just went to the lawyer or the marriage counselor and asked to be divorced. It is done with mutual agreement with the wife or be individually separated for a few years for the divorce to be granted. Another way in which some irresponsible men do to rid the wife is to just leave the wife and family or have adulterous relation with another woman. Same goes with the wife if she wanted to leave the husband. It is as easy as that depicted in the Bible.


    5. Premarital sex with many girlfriends or boyfriends any different from fornication? It doesn't matter what it's called because Yahweh has a double standard for men and women. Men can have premarital sex whenever they want by visiting a prostitute, but a woman must remain a virgin or get stoned to death. Duet.22:13-14
    Bible: Not necessary so that woman will be stoned if she is not a virgin. There are some examples in the Bible in which men married non-virgins.

    Modern: Men and women are now more open to sex which is why we are seeing more cases of adultery, fornication, divorce and remarry, prostituition, mistress, venereal diseases, AIDS etc. Is this trend good or bad? Is this considered as fornication?


    6. Is one obliged to marry the one that you first have sex with? In the Bible a man must marry a woman that he rapes, but then he can divorce if he doesn't like her.
    Bible: This shows that the law provided that man must be responsible to the lady he has sex with. Divorce comes with the responsibility to ensure her well being by paying compensation to the ex-wife.

    Modern: We are seeing almost all cases of "irresponsibilty" in which men do not marry the woman they first have sex with. Is this trend good or bad?


    7. Is consensual sex with underage girls ok? The Bible doesn't specify the age a girl needs to be to marry as long as the father is willing to sell his daughter to a man for a wife...remember the girl has no say in the matter.
    Bible: But that does not mean the girl cannot illegally leave the man she marries. There is no law in the Bible that says the woman who left her husband must be killed. They can only marry off the child when she reached puberty.

    Modern: sex with an underage girl constitutes rape. This is to prevent vulnerability of underage girls.


    8. Do men prefer their future bride to be a virgin? Of course men demand a virgin bride, but it doesn't matter if the man is a virgin according to the Bible.
    Same with modern society isn't it in which men prefer virgin ladies? But I believe that some women(a rarity) prefer their man to be a virgin also.

    God Blessed.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-06-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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    Seek and You shall find,
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I regret flaring up Rose's obsession on male bias.
    I regret your obsession with calling Rose's valid and insightful observations an "obsession."

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    My thread is more related to modern issues than those in the Bible. OK, I am going to respond in both Biblical AND modern issues in relating to is premarital sex immoral. Here's my reply in red:

    1. Is the Bible against pre-marital sex? In keeping with the male bias of the Bible premarital sex is only wrong for the female, a man can visit a prostitute whenever he wants before he marries.
    Biblical: In the Bible, there is no mention of premarital sex is wrong except that if a man have sex with a virgin, he will need to marry her. And there were temple prostitutes and the hospitality gesture of offering their daughters for sex. Neither does the ten commandments say "Thou shall not have sex before marriage".

    Modern: So can a female visit male prostitutes if she wanted or have sex with any man if she wanted if she is promiscuous.
    Biblical: So Lot's offering of his daughters to be raped by a mob was a "hospitality gesture." How nice!

    Modern: So what?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    2. Is virginity important? Again, according to the Bible virginity is only important for the woman, it doesn't matter if a man is a virgin or not.
    Bible: The reason why female virginity is important is because of purity which is more preferable by the men but that did not mean a non-virgin cannot marry.

    Modern: Are you saying that virginity in the modern world is not important? It may be less important from the purity point of view but still men prefers virgin women.
    Biblical: You got it! The virginity was "more preferable to the men" and that's proof that men, not God, wrote the Bible.

    Modern: Yes, men are still biased. They do not see women as equals. And the Bible didn't help, did it? Nope. It made things much worse. That's why women began to be free and have equal rights only after the Bible was rejected. The Bible leads to bondage.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    3. Will encouragement of premarital sex leads to promiscuity? Biblically speaking it doesn't matter because men could have as many wives and concubines as they wanted.
    Bible: Man can have any wives as he can but that depends on whether he can afford financially. I see polygamy in the Bible not as lust but as a need to ensure procreation as most of these men died young due to wars and hard labors and infant mortality was high. Polygamy is not equals to promiscuity.

    Modern : Polygamy is allowed in certain cultures and it is also based on affordability. However those men who live in a single marriage society overcome the limitation of single marriage by many ingenious ways by seeking prostitutes, adultery, divorce and remarry, one-night-stand, wife swapping etc. That modern behavior is equals to promiscuity.
    Biblical: The money is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about. And you justification of polygamy just shows that you would justify anything the Bible says. That's why the Bible corrupts the minds and the morals of those who believe it. If your excuse were true, then it would be in the Bible. But the Bible says nothing about polygamy being needed because of war widows. And besides, it directly contradicts that fact that the Israelis captured 32,000 virgins and took them for "wives" - unless, of course, you believe that they all had many wives.

    Modern: Irrelevant, as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    4. Is premarital sex ok if done out of love instead of out of lust? Once again, according to the Bible it's fine either way for the man, he can lust after a captured woman and keep her for sex if he wants and then get rid of her once he is tired of her.
    Bible: It is not lust as I have explained but the need to ensure procreation as these men will die young and infant mortality was high. If the man is tired of her and "rid" her, he usually has to ensure her well-being such as some compensation etc.

    Modern: If a man wants to "rid" his wife, just went to the lawyer or the marriage counselor and asked to be divorced. It is done with mutual agreement with the wife or be individually separated for a few years for the divorce to be granted. Another way in which some irresponsible men do to rid the wife is to just leave the wife and family or have adulterous relation with another woman. Same goes with the wife if she wanted to leave the husband. It is as easy as that depicted in the Bible.
    Biblical: Yes, as you "have explained" which means you just made it up.

    Modern: Irrelevant, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    5. Premarital sex with many girlfriends or boyfriends any different from fornication? It doesn't matter what it's called because Yahweh has a double standard for men and women. Men can have premarital sex whenever they want by visiting a prostitute, but a woman must remain a virgin or get stoned to death. Duet.22:13-14
    Bible: Not necessary so that woman will be stoned if she is not a virgin. There are some examples in the Bible in which men married non-virgins.

    Modern: Men and women are now more open to sex which is why we are seeing more cases of adultery, fornication, divorce and remarry, prostituition, mistress, venereal diseases, AIDS etc. Is this trend good or bad? Is this considered as fornication?
    Biblical: You failed to answer Rose's point. Again.

    Modern: Irrelevant, like all the other "modern" applications you have suggested. Why don't you try to engage us in real conversation instead of mechanically producing long lists of questions with silly answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    6. Is one obliged to marry the one that you first have sex with? In the Bible a man must marry a woman that he rapes, but then he can divorce if he doesn't like her.
    Bible: This shows that the law provided that man must be responsible to the lady he has sex with. Divorce comes with the responsibility to ensure her well being by paying compensation to the ex-wife.

    Modern: We are seeing almost all cases of "irresponsibilty" in which men do not marry the woman they first have sex with. Is this trend good or bad?
    Biblical: The Bible says nothing about paying compensation. On the contrary, when an Israeli soldier captured a woman he found "desirable" he could screw her and toss her out like a dirty rag.

    Modern: The "trend" of modernity is infinitely better than the nightmare of dogmatic religion that we've only recently escaped from.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    7. Is consensual sex with underage girls ok? The Bible doesn't specify the age a girl needs to be to marry as long as the father is willing to sell his daughter to a man for a wife...remember the girl has no say in the matter.
    Bible: But that does not mean the girl cannot illegally leave the man she marries. There is no law in the Bible that says the woman who left her husband must be killed. They can only marry off the child when she reached puberty.

    Modern: sex with an underage girl constitutes rape. This is to prevent vulnerability of underage girls.
    Biblical: So you think the young girl is just going to "escape" and go ... where??? Have you no compassion at all? You answers just don't connect with reality.

    Modern: And that shows how advanced the modern morality is compared to Biblical morality.
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    [QUOTE][QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I regret your obsession with calling Rose's valid and insightful observations an "obsession."
    Rose obviously have an obsessive compulsive personality. People with this problem are rather over-sensitive and stubborn to certain issues and will brood over them. Most of Rose threads and posts for the past one year are about male bias.

    Biblical: So Lot's offering of his daughters to be raped by a mob was a "hospitality gesture." How nice!
    Then how do you account for Lot's behavior? Homosexuals are not interested in the opposite sex anyway. He would have offer himself if he is a young man then, what better choice did he have?

    Modern: So what?
    So what? You approve promiscuity? where is your sense of morality RAM?
    God is against premarital sex but if it is already done consensually or not then they should be married and not go screwing around as some teenagers are doing. This is to prevent promiscuity because once they are married they cannot be screwing around as that will constitute adultery.

    Biblical: You got it! The virginity was "more preferable to the men" and that's proof that men, not God, wrote the Bible.
    So you agree that virginity of female is not important
    ?
    Where is your sense of morality? The question is, is it moral to be a virgin or a non-virgin before marriage? As I said before, the hymen is a protective membrane believe to prevent infection until the girl reaches puberty. If not, why is the hymen there for? and why male do not have a hymen?

    Modern: Yes, men are still biased. They do not see women as equals. And the Bible didn't help, did it? Nope. It made things much worse. That's why women began to be free and have equal rights only after the Bible was rejected. The Bible leads to bondage.
    I don't know what you are talking about. The simple fact why men prefers virgin is to ensure that the first child born is his. This male behavior is in all races and cultures and has nothing to do with the Bible or equal human rights.

    Biblical: The money is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about. And you justification of polygamy just shows that you would justify anything the Bible says. That's why the Bible corrupts the minds and the morals of those who believe it. If your excuse were true, then it would be in the Bible. But the Bible says nothing about polygamy being needed because of war widows. And besides, it directly contradicts that fact that the Israelis captured 32,000 virgins and took them for "wives" - unless, of course, you believe that they all had many wives.
    If polygamy is not justified, then explain to me why many men are not satisfied with having only one wife?...and some keep screwing around before and after marriage.

    Modern: Irrelevant, as usual.
    No reason given for irrelevancy as usual; this is not helpful.


    Biblical: Yes, as you "have explained" which means you just made it up.
    If it is easy to rid a woman during Biblical times, it is equally easy to rid a woman during modern times. See the number of BGR breakups and divorce! Not to mention the number of widowhood during wars. What difference does it makes between Biblical times and modern times?

    Modern: Irrelevant, again.
    No reason given for irrelevancy as usual; this is not helpful.

    Biblical: You failed to answer Rose's point. Again.
    I have already answered that God allows polygamy but also allows divorce for the women so that they can get remarry again. Isn't this what is happening in the modern world, divorce and remarry multiple times. What difference is polygamy compare with divorce and remarry multiple times? Where is that male bias as claimed?

    Modern: Irrelevant, like all the other "modern" applications you have suggested. Why don't you try to engage us in real conversation instead of mechanically producing long lists of questions with silly answers?
    No reason given for irrelevancy as usual; this is not helpful. Why not relevant, then explain to us why there is an explosion of venereal diseases, AIDS in the modern times if the world has not become so open to sex?

    Biblical: The Bible says nothing about paying compensation. On the contrary, when an Israeli soldier captured a woman he found "desirable" he could screw her and toss her out like a dirty rag.
    There is paying of compensation for divorce in the Bible as seen with Abraham but is it possible to pay monetary compensation during war times? If women are toss out like a dirty rags so are men when they are tossed out in wars like a dirty rags. If the Israelite men kept them, they will soon become widows.

    Modern: The "trend" of modernity is infinitely better than the nightmare of dogmatic religion that we've only recently escaped from.
    What? Where is your sense of morality? Is it good to have sex with a girl with sweet talk of marriage and then got rid of her and get another one and do the same? What difference is that compare to fornication or lust? What difference is that compare with "screwing the girl and tossing her out like dirty rag"? It is fair that promise of marriage as promised is adhere to, if not it is consider as cheating.

    Biblical: So you think the young girl is just going to "escape" and go ... where??? Have you no compassion at all? You answers just don't connect with reality.
    Go where? stays with the in laws! Have you also no compassion at all that the girl stays with the husband whom she don't like or who ill treated her?

    Modern: And that shows how advanced the modern morality is compared to Biblical morality.
    What modern morality you are talking about? Look at the numbers of adulteries and divorce and prostituition and pornography and...... compare to the numbers in the Bible.

    God Blessed.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-07-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Rose obviously have an obsessive compulsive personality. People with this problem are rather over-sensitive and stubborn to certain issues and will brood over them. Most of Rose threads and posts for the past one year are about male bias.
    You would do well to apply your psychology to yourself, my friend. You write like a robot.

    But more to the point: You have never indicated that you understand the point Rose is making, despite the fact that she has repeated it dozen's of times. Her point is simply that the Bible cannot be considered to be the "Word of God" because it biased in favor of males from beginning to end. That's her point. Do you understand that now? Will you now respond to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Then how do you account for Lot's behavior? Homosexuals are not interested in the opposite sex anyway. He would have offer himself if he is a young man then, what better choice did he have?
    I don't know how to account for Lot's behavior except to say that he is a fictional character in a book written by some men with primitive and defective morality. We see the same thing in Judges 19 when the Levite PRIEST offered his concubine to the mob who then raped her till she died. That's some very sick behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    So what? You approve promiscuity? where is your sense of morality RAM?
    God is against premarital sex but if it is already done consensually or not then they should be married and not go screwing around as some teenagers are doing. This is to prevent promiscuity because once they are married they cannot be screwing around as that will constitute adultery.
    Your mechanical mimicry of my words makes you look like a robot that doesn't understand what it is saying. I have written nothing to justify your question about my morality. I am the one who has the high moral standards. You are the one who is justifying all the moral abominations attributed to God in the Bible.

    And I said nothing about "approving" promiscuity.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    ?
    Where is your sense of morality? The question is, is it moral to be a virgin or a non-virgin before marriage? As I said before, the hymen is a protective membrane believe to prevent infection until the girl reaches puberty. If not, why is the hymen there for? and why male do not have a hymen?
    There you go again. Mechanically mimicking my words without any good reason.

    The hymen may indeed have the purpose of preventing infections in young girls. The scientists don't really know. Your question "why male do not have a hymen?" is pretty silly. Where exactly would you think it should go?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Modern: Yes, men are still biased. They do not see women as equals. And the Bible didn't help, did it? Nope. It made things much worse. That's why women began to be free and have equal rights only after the Bible was rejected. The Bible leads to bondage.
    I don't know what you are talking about. The simple fact why men prefers virgin is to ensure that the first child born is his. This male behavior is in all races and cultures and has nothing to do with the Bible or equal human rights.
    You don't know what I'm talking about? How could I make it any plainer? It has everything to do with the Bible because the Bible promotes male domination over women and so it cannot be from God. Simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Biblical: The money is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about. And your justification of polygamy just shows that you would justify anything the Bible says. That's why the Bible corrupts the minds and the morals of those who believe it. If your excuse were true, then it would be in the Bible. But the Bible says nothing about polygamy being needed because of war widows. And besides, it directly contradicts that fact that the Israelis captured 32,000 virgins and took them for "wives" - unless, of course, you believe that they all had many wives.
    If polygamy is not justified, then explain to me why many men are not satisfied with having only one wife?...and some keep screwing around before and after marriage.
    The fact that some men want multiple women has nothing to do with the justification for polygamy that you suggested. My point was that your justification was just made up and is not supported by anything in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    No reason given for irrelevancy as usual; this is not helpful.
    If you can't see it for yourself, no explanation will help.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    If it is easy to rid a woman during Biblical times, it is equally easy to rid a woman during modern times. See the number of BGR breakups and divorce! Not to mention the number of widowhood during wars. What difference does it makes between Biblical times and modern times?
    The difference is that using a women for sex and then rejecting her because she didn't please you is an immoral law established by God in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I have already answered that God allows polygamy but also allows divorce for the women so that they can get remarry again. Isn't this what is happening in the modern world, divorce and remarry multiple times. What difference is polygamy compare with divorce and remarry multiple times? Where is that male bias as claimed?
    No one is presenting the moral behavior of people in of modern societies as a divine revelation. That's why all your comments are irrelevant and reveal the you have yet to understand what we are talking about. The morals in the Bible are supposed to be from God, but they turn out to be nothing but the defective morals of primitive men who set themselves up as rulers over women. This conversation would be much more interesting if you would deal with the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    There is paying of compensation for divorce in the Bible as seen with Abraham but is it possible to pay monetary compensation during war times? If women are toss out like a dirty rags so are men when they are tossed out in wars like a dirty rags. If the Israelite men kept them, they will soon become widows.
    We are talking about the laws attributed to God in the Bible. What Abraham did is irrelevant to the discussion because they are not normative.

    And yes, I agree that God abused the Israeli soldiers by commanding them to commit genocide.
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Modern: The "trend" of modernity is infinitely better than the nightmare of dogmatic religion that we've only recently escaped from.
    What? Where is your sense of morality? Is it good to have sex with a girl with sweet talk of marriage and then got rid of her and get another one and do the same? What difference is that compare to fornication or lust? What difference is that compare with "screwing the girl and tossing her out like dirty rag"? It is fair that promise of marriage as promised is adhere to, if not it is consider as cheating.
    Modern morality does not approve of "sex with a girl with sweet talk of marriage and then got rid of her." Ask anyone - they'll tell you it is wrong. And since you think it is wrong, I presume you agree that the morality taught in the Bible is wrong, and therefore the Bible is not God's Word. Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Modern: And that shows how advanced the modern morality is compared to Biblical morality.
    What modern morality you are talking about? Look at the numbers of adulteries and divorce and prostituition and pornography and...... compare to the numbers in the Bible.
    I'm talking about the modern morality that treats women as equal to men. I get the impression you have not been paying attention to anything I've written.
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  9. #9
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    There is no hard and fast answer to this. This is yet another subject that must be approached on a case by case basis. In many circumstances it may well be immoral to engage in sexual activities outside of marriage while in other situations the act of unmarried sex is neither moral or amoral.

    A bigger queston to ponder is that of marriage and its true value. Many would say marriage is something that is holy and ordained by a higher power, but realistically if we really examine it, what we find is that it was a construct that evolved in order to help promote the survival of the human race and particularly the perpetuity of the male gene pool into the next generations.
    If mankind were to somehow figure a way to harness and transfer the neural network that seemingly enables the individual to be self aware so that that network does not meet its end with the demise of the human body, what we would discover is that marriage, along with other things we value, is of far less importance than we believe it to be. Marriage is more a survival mechanism than it is a matter of innate morality.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    You would do well to apply your psychology to yourself, my friend. You write like a robot.
    It applies to you as well RAM.

    But more to the point: You have never indicated that you understand the point Rose is making, despite the fact that she has repeated it dozen's of times. Her point is simply that the Bible cannot be considered to be the "Word of God" because it biased in favor of males from beginning to end. That's her point. Do you understand that now? Will you now respond to it?
    And I have been repeating a dozen times that there is nothing biased against the male in the Bible. It is just an error perception. If a father gave more food to his son rather than his daughter, is he biased to his son? It obviously seems do but it is not because the son is hyper-active and requires more energy. Therefore what is perceived as male bias in the Bible is not what is seems to be.

    I don't know how to account for Lot's behavior except to say that he is a fictional character in a book written by some men with primitive and defective morality. We see the same thing in Judges 19 when the Levite PRIEST offered his concubine to the mob who then raped her till she died. That's some very sick behavior.
    I seems to be that anything sickening to you in the Bible is fictional, what logic is this? You can't account for Lot's behavior because you cannot accept such "sickening" behavior. I have asked a question, would you offer yourself as an alternative if President Obama is about to be raped by a mob in your house?

    Your mechanical mimicry of my words makes you look like a robot that doesn't understand what it is saying. I have written nothing to justify your question about my morality. I am the one who has the high moral standards. You are the one who is justifying all the moral abominations attributed to God in the Bible.
    So am I with high oral standards. Please answer the following questions if you are a man with high moral standards?
    Is premarital sex immoral?
    Is promiscuity immoral?
    Is fornication immoral?
    Is adultery immoral?
    Is teenage sex immoral?
    Is watching pornorgraphy immoral?
    Is divorce and remarry multiple times immoral?
    Is free love and free sex immoral?
    Is taking narcotics immoral?

    And I said nothing about "approving" promiscuity.
    Fine, then answer why do you hate promiscuity?

    There you go again. Mechanically mimicking my words without any good reason.
    The hymen may indeed have the purpose of preventing infections in young girls. The scientists don't really know. Your question "why male do not have a hymen?" is pretty silly. Where exactly would you think it should go?
    You talk so much about male and female equality, then tell me why God created a hymen for female but no hymen for male? A hymen for male would be a proof of male virginity.

    You don't know what I'm talking about? How could I make it any plainer? It has everything to do with the Bible because the Bible promotes male domination over women and so it cannot be from God. Simple as that.
    That's a wrong perception. There are scriptures in the Bible in which female dominates over males such as in the praises of women in Proverbs and Psalms and in Esther. If the Bible is written by men over women's domination, why sing such praises?

    The fact that some men want multiple women has nothing to do with the justification for polygamy that you suggested. My point was that your justification was just made up and is not supported by anything in the Bible.
    My point is that given a choice, a man will want more than one wife. Just asked any man (yourself included), Christian and non-Christian and most will admit that one wife is not enough. I know Rose will vomit over this comment but it is something realistic.
    Ask any men Christian or non-Christian and they will tell you they prefer virgin wife. Therefore, the value of female virginity has nothing to do with the Bible or Christianity or race or culture.

    The difference is that using a women for sex and then rejecting her because she didn't please you is an immoral law established by God in the Bible.
    What is the difference between man divorcing his wife and marrying another multiple times? What is the difference between teenagers after having sex with his girlfriend and then rejecting her and then go for another? What difference is that compare to fornication?

    No one is presenting the moral behavior of people in of modern societies as a divine revelation. That's why all your comments are irrelevant and reveal the you have yet to understand what we are talking about. The morals in the Bible are supposed to be from God, but they turn out to be nothing but the defective morals of primitive men who set themselves up as rulers over women. This conversation would be much more interesting if you would deal with the topic.
    It is not what it seems to be.

    We are talking about the laws attributed to God in the Bible. What Abraham did is irrelevant to the discussion because they are not normative.
    And yes, I agree that God abused the Israeli soldiers by commanding them to commit genocide.
    If you agree that people like Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Mao should be killed, I see no reason why genocide of evil people should not be allowed.

    Modern morality does not approve of "sex with a girl with sweet talk of marriage and then got rid of her." Ask anyone - they'll tell you it is wrong. And since you think it is wrong, I presume you agree that the morality taught in the Bible is wrong, and therefore the Bible is not God's Word. Is that correct?
    It is not what it seems to be in the Bible.

    I'm talking about the modern morality that treats women as equal to men. I get the impression you have not been paying attention to anything I've written.
    Is everything male and female equality always good?

    God Blessed male and female.
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    Seek and You shall find,
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