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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Good morning David,

    I don't see how anyone could have any certainty about that passage (Zech 13:5-6). There is mixed testimony amongst the commentators. For example, here is what Matthew Henry said:
    Some good interpreters, observing how soon this comes after the mention of Christ’s being pierced, think that these are the words of that great prophet, not of the false prophet spoken of before. Christ was wounded in his hands, when they were nailed to the cross, and, after his resurrection, he had the marks of these wounds; and here he tells how he came by them; he received them as a false prophet, for the chief priests called him a deceiver, and upon that account would have him crucified; but he received them in the house of his friends—the Jews, who should have been his friends; for he came to his own, and, though they were his bitter enemies, yet he was pleased to call them his friends, as he did Judas (Friend, wherefore hast thou come?) because they forwarded his sufferings for him; as he called Peter Satan—an adversary, because he dissuaded him from them.
    As with almost everything in the Bible, we have no way to confirm or deny anyone's interpretation. Just more words, words, words that folks conjure up to attempt to support whatever opinion they like. It's a lot like Isaiah 7:14 which was lifted from context and applied to Jesus. There is nothing in that text that supports that interpretation.
    It is possible that deceivers could pretend to be Christ and show the marks of crucifixion. We are warned about false Christs and we are warned that some deceivers could even fool the elect. That is why it is good to have a proper grasp of the scriptures otherwise we are open to be fooled.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I wasn't talking about that specific verse, but rather the one that follows in verse 21 in the same chapter:
    Zechariah 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
    I thought you would recognize this because I mentioned "animal sacrifices." It seems pretty obvious that this is symbolic language, especially since it talks about "no more Canaanites" in the "House of the Lord." Taking Zechariah 14 literally is not justified from a Biblical point of view in my estimation.
    I saw that other verse and wondered if the association of that verse would be linked with sacrifices like the Feast of Tabernacles. Evidently, you have not made the association because of your set thinking or that of the thinking you claim Christians have. Since verse 21 is a general reference made about (animal) sacrifices made at feast times, like that of the Feast of Tabernacles mentioned, there is no problem understanding verse 21. I am glad you say it is only your estimation, as in time I hope your estimation might change. There are verses in Zechariah chapter 14 which have not been fulfilled. Hence they were not fulfilled by the time of AD70 and can only be fulfilled in future. I am waiting for that to happen. Time will ultimately reveal the truth and who is right and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Yes, I'm sure you have plenty of knowledge. But when it comes to typology, it seems clear from your writings that you often ignore the fulfillment of types in Christ and the Church in favor of literal interpretations. This is the primary error of the "Futurist" paradigm. I didn't mean to impugn all your knowledge in all things. I'm sorry I was not more clear.
    I have read your posts and those of Kathryn (apologies if I have mis-associated Kathryn) dealing with typology and it is not something I entirely share, but I share a Little. A little bit like Bob's allegories. I appreciate the allegories where they are in harmony with the whole of scripture.

    QUOTE=RAM;43442]But you deny that Christ and His Church fulfilled the prophecies and are looking for future fulfillment in carnal Israel. That's what I was trying to point out. [/QUOTE]
    I believe natural Israel has an important part to play in God's dealing with the nations. Jerusalem is the stumbling block that will bring the nations to surround Israel and Israel will be punished once more (the third and final time). The nation will be transformed during the millennial reign of Christ. After that, we are not told very mcuh. In the kingdom to come, it is likely there will be only one people (one world-wide nation), one language, no law (as it will be written in people's hearts). The kingdom will be made up of those who represent spiritual Israel and Christ's church in this life and who are judged acceptable.
    In that age to come, the moral problems we grapple with at present will not be a problem. Love will be the only motivating force in people's hearts. There will be no need for competitiveness that leads to strife and arguing and envying. From their experience in this world and life, everyone in the kingdom will know that God's way is the only way to live peacefully.

    QUOTE=RAM;43442]I hope I took proper note of your answers. [/QUOTE]
    Yes, a definite improvement. So long as we drop the words like "absurd", "blatantly clear", "ridiculous" we shall continue to have a more reasoned discussion.

    All the best,

    Last edited by David M; 04-25-2012 at 04:23 AM.

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