Zoroastrianism

[Rose]

Hi Richard,

You are hilarious, but I'm not playing your game or Rose's. I think I see it pretty clearly, now. You can beat other people up, ridicule and mock them and me too if you want. I could care less. But, why play dumb, Richard? Like you don't know what you are doing? I mean, you know exactly what I am talking about because afterall, you walked with God and had His Holy Spirit dwelling in you. Isn't that right or am I mistaken?

So you know that the Bible is a spiritual book and is spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit and not by reason and logic.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I don't see you or Rose as "searchers" anymore. I have watched and observed your modis operandi towards others and it seems to me you are more agenda driven and not really open or teachable.

Whether you and Rose had Christ or just had "Churchianity", only the Lord knows.

But for now, you both sound more like atheists in the mold of Richard Dawkins trying to dismantle something that is impossible to do. But if that is what your life's work has come to be, then so be it.

Thank you, that's all I want to say.

Rick

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God ***the world by wisdom knew not God***, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness (and absurdity) of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Hello Rick,

I'm sorry to see that you think it's all a game, because you have been backed into a corner with no way out. All Richard and I have done from day one is share with others our journey to search out the truth, and you mock us like it's all some big plan with a "modis operandi"...well, my friend you are wrong.

You quote at us words from the Bible, that we must use our reason and intellect to discern, then you disparage for using logic and call us atheists like Richard Dawkins saying we are neither open, nor teachable when in reality it is you who are trapped in your Christian box unable to see any other viewpoint. I would truly enjoy continuing this conversation, but I know for you it will be impossible.

Take care and all the best,
Rose

[heb13-13]

Hello Rick,

I'm sorry to see that you think it's all a game, because you have been backed into a corner with no way out. All Richard and I have done from day one is share with others our journey to search out the truth, and you mock us like it's all some big plan with a "modis operandi"...well, my friend you are wrong.

You quote at us words from the Bible, that we must use our reason and intellect to discern, then you disparage for using logic and call us atheists like Richard Dawkins saying we are neither open, nor teachable when in reality it is you who are trapped in your Christian box unable to see any other viewpoint. I would truly enjoy continuing this conversation, but I know for you it will be impossible.

Take care and all the best,
Rose

Actually, it's not impossible for me, Rose. I just choose not to play and I don't have any hard feelings at all and am not offended.

I'm sorry I can't continue the conversation with you either, but your words about "searching for the truth" just seem empty to me. Maybe, I'm wrong and I hope I am. Time will tell.

Please carry on.

Rick

[Rose]

Actually, it's not impossible for me, Rose. I just choose not to play and I don't have any hard feelings at all and am not offended.

I'm sorry I can't continue the conversation with you either, but your words about "searching for the truth" just seem empty to me. Maybe, I'm wrong and I hope I am. Time will tell.

Please carry on.

Rick

I will indeed carry on walking the path of freedom...I wish you could join me, so far it has been an incredible journey. My searching for the truth may seem like empty words to you, but I can assure you they are far from that. As I have said before, when I began this journey I never conceived that my faith in God and the Bible would crumble, but that's what happens when one is holding onto false beliefs...they can't stand the test of fire.

It is sort of like a child who believes in Santa Claus, and then one day he discovers that Santa is his Dad...after that no matter how hard he would try, never again could he believe that Santa Claus is real. Once the bubble bursts, it's gone and can never be restored.

Thanks for chatting,
Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

You are hilarious, but I'm not playing your game or Rose's. I think I see it pretty clearly, now. You can beat other people up, ridicule and mock them and me too if you want. I could care less. But, why play dumb, Richard? Like you don't know what you are doing? I mean, you know exactly what I am talking about because afterall, you walked with God and had His Holy Spirit dwelling in you. Isn't that right or am I mistaken?

Hey there Rick,

Do you remember when I first brought up the problem with the 32,000 virgins in Numbers 31? Here is what you wrote to me last November:

One of the things I really like about YOU is that you "hold people's feet to the fire" (excuse the pun). That is a sincere compliment, Richard (I don't flatter people). And I mean this regarding what people write and talk about (their ideas). The worldly church does not do this. They accept just about everything that comes "off the street", no questions asked (to their detriment). I appreciate the freedom in your forum to be expressive and realize at the same time that we will be challenged to "make a good case". I see I still have work to do.

And here is what I said in response:

And thanks for the good words. It's really nice to be appreciated once in a while. Not everyone likes the way I hold feet to fire. That's why it's so important to hold my own in the same fire. If I don't do that I'd be a hypocrite.

I don't think I've changed my "modus operandi" in the last four months. I still strive to hold my own feet to the same fire of intellectual honesty as everyone else. I am really sorry you think I've changed. I'm not aware of any habitual bashing, ridicule, or mockery coming from my keyboard. If I have offended you in that way, please cite the offending posts so I can repent.

I get the impression you don't like my habit of holding feet to fire so much any more.

As for the Holy Spirit - yes, of course I believed that I had the Holy Spirit. But by your own admission (if I've understood you correctly), there is no way I or anyone else could know if that were true. Indeed, there is no way for you to objectively verify if you have the Spirit. So your point seems moot.

So you know that the Bible is a spiritual book and is spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit and not by reason and logic.

Yes, from the Christian perspective the spiritual truths of the Bible relating to the Gospel are spiritually discerned. But we are not talking about that. We are talking about how to interpret the Bible in general. Should we assume it is the "inerrant and infallible Word of God?" The Bible can be a "spiritual book" without making that radical assumption. And given the problems with that assumption, I think it is quite reasonable to question it, as have many serious Christians.

I don't see you or Rose as "searchers" anymore. I have watched and observed your modis operandi towards others and it seems to me you are more agenda driven and not really open or teachable.

Whether you and Rose had Christ or just had "Churchianity", only the Lord knows.

Well, it is true that one does not "search" after one has found what one was looking for. Case in point: I read the Bible (even as a believer) and saw serious logical, factual, and moral flaws. For years I have reviewed solutions proposed by the most famous apologists and have found them sorely lacking. Indeed, many attempts are utterly absurd, such as William Lane Craig's argument that God did no wrong to the kill the Canaanite children because "they all go to heaven." In his attempt to justify God, he justified all abortionists! It is ridiculous in the extreme.

I think you should know that it was this forum more than anything else that precipitated my "fall" from the faith. After years of watching Christians disagreeing with Christians and making up their own unfounded religions I finally realized that there is no "orthodox" Christianity at all. Folks either just believe what they are told without any significant thought at all, or they make up their own ideas and reject orthodox Christianity (or "Churchianity" as you seem to be calling it). I cannot see any reason any of it should have any hold on my soul. It's fundamentally irrational and there is no test for truth. It's just opinion loosely based on tradition mixed with a lot of mythology.

But for now, you both sound more like atheists in the mold of Richard Dawkins trying to dismantle something that is impossible to do. But if that is what your life's work has come to be, then so be it.

One thing I've learned from years of interacting on internet forums is that what one "hears" when one reads a post is largely based on what is in the readers head. I am nothing like Dawkins.

As for "dismantling" the Bible - if it were so impossible I don't think you would be so disturbed by our conversations.

And it's not my "life's work." It's merely a phase I'm going through as I purge the false beliefs from my soul.

Thank you, that's all I want to say.

I'll be here for you anytime you feel you have more to say.

All the very best, my friend,

Richard

[heb13-13]

Hey there Rose,

I am not "trapped" in my "Christian box". Far from it. The narrow way or God-way through Christ is as broad as can be imagined. The narrowness of Jesus allows me very broad latitude within the liberty of God's grace. Within the expression of the Christ-life, the narrowness or box that you speak of, I actually have greater expanse and freedom than I ever had as an unbeliever on the "broad way". I find it odd that you and Richard never discovered this when you were Christians. That is the nature of the Christ-Life. But it is all within the parameters of God's character which is expressed in men by His grace. Of course one has to accept His parameters to walk with Him. Only then do they see the infiniteness of this "narrow way".

Now reason and logic will not get you from point A to point B. Even that is a work of the Spirit.

It is really the "broad way" that is a trap because those who are on it refuse to be identified with His life, because they somehow think His parameters are too restrictive and yet nothing could be further from the truth. People think that in the satisfaction of their own desires where "anything goes", they are free when the freedom that they think they are experiencing is just a counterfeit and an illusion. Feels good, though, for a short time but the end is a bitter taste.

The narrowness of Christ is not determined by man's logic and reason but only by comparing how God goes with "anything goes".

When a man discovers Christ, (and not religion) he finds the narrow way to be the only way of freedom. I've been on the broad way, Rose, so I can compare it with the narrow way and there is no comparison.

Even religion is part of the broad way. Isn't that what you and Richard really fell into?

May the Lord help us all to see Him clearer,
Rick

[heb13-13]

Hey there Rick,

I think you should know that it was this forum more than anything else that precipitated my "fall" from the faith. After years of watching Christians disagreeing with Christians and making up their own unfounded religions I finally realized that there is no "orthodox" Christianity at all. Folks either just believe what they are told without any significant thought at all, or they make up their own ideas and reject orthodox Christianity (or "Churchianity" as you seem to be calling it). I cannot see any reason any of it should have any hold on my soul. It's fundamentally irrational and there is no test for truth. It's just opinion loosely based on tradition mixed with a lot of mythology.
All the very best, my friend,

Richard

Richard,

Maybe it is time to stop looking for a single orthodoxy and look for Jesus, instead. You will not find a single orthodoxy amongst men but you can find Jesus amongst many orthodoxies and He will keep things clear for you. You are looking at man and what he has created (the many religious creations (aberrations) of Jesus' words). It is time you stopped looking at men and what they have done or are doing (or not doing) and fix your eyes on Jesus and follow Him for yourself. You cannot hide yourself any longer behind men's mistakes, weaknesses and inadequacies.

Hold God to His words, Richard!
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

God bless you and Rose,
Rick

[Rose]

Hey there Rose,

I am not "trapped" in my "Christian box". Far from it. The narrow way or God-way through Christ is as broad as can be imagined. The narrowness of Jesus allows me very broad latitude within the liberty of God's grace. Within the expression of the Christ-life, the narrowness or box that you speak of, I actually have greater expanse and freedom than I ever had as an unbeliever on the "broad way". I find it odd that you and Richard never discovered this when you were Christians. That is the nature of the Christ-Life. But it is all within the parameters of God's character which is expressed in men by His grace. Of course one has to accept His parameters to walk with Him. Only then do they see the infiniteness of this "narrow way".

Now reason and logic will not get you from point A to point B. Even that is a work of the Spirit.

It is really the "broad way" that is a trap because those who are on it refuse to be identified with His life, because they somehow think His parameters are too restrictive and yet nothing could be further from the truth. People think that in the satisfaction of their own desires where "anything goes", they are free when the freedom that they think they are experiencing is just a counterfeit and an illusion. Feels good, though, for a short time but the end is a bitter taste.

The narrowness of Christ is not determined by man's logic and reason but only by comparing how God goes with "anything goes".

When a man discovers Christ, (and not religion) he finds the narrow way to be the only way of freedom. I've been on the broad way, Rose, so I can compare it with the narrow way and there is no comparison.

Even religion is part of the broad way. Isn't that what you and Richard really fell into?

May the Lord help us all to see Him clearer,
Rick

It has nothing to do with refusing to be identified with Jesus, or of thinking that his parameters are too restrictive, what it comes down to is truth...it is either true or it's not, and I can't make myself believe something that has been shown to be unbelievable on many counts.

Talk more later,
Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Richard,

Maybe it is time to stop looking for a single orthodoxy and look for Jesus, instead. You will not find a single orthodoxy amongst men but you can find Jesus amongst many orthodoxies and He will keep things clear for you. You are looking at man and what he has created (the many religious creations (aberrations) of Jesus' words). It is time you stopped looking at men and what they have done or are doing (or not doing) and fix your eyes on Jesus and follow Him for yourself. You cannot hide yourself any longer behind men's mistakes, weaknesses and inadequacies.

Hold God to His words, Richard!
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

God bless you and Rose,
Rick

Well, I'm still at a loss to know how a person discerns between an imaginary Jesus and a real Jesus. How do I know I'm not just having a "relation" with my own imagination? It happens all the time, you know. Any suggestions?

[oxbox]

you never know anything about that if you didnt know the world of avesta
this is a very secret religion, if you dont understand all rules of emanation of any beeing
it makes less sense to try to understand the avesta.
this is the prob for modern human.
you cant read the avesta like a normal text, you have to found the text in your own soul before reading it.
so this religion is nothing for a modern human
maybe a thing for archaic souls with sciencs minds
it isnt a religion in words with anything wich makes it compatible with any imagines about all other religions of our acutally days
we have some peolpe acutally official living the religion, but this is bullshit
they are living in there understanding of zaratustrahs message in our time, but it hasnt any deeper minds, wich can contact the elderscrolls of roots
better noone could describe in any words the avesta of your own inner soul, cause noone can remember him or herself in many older lifes, but excatly this means to have the first open door of avesta

[annielimo]

Using archeology to help put the pieces together is so amazing