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Thread: What Was That?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    2,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi David,

    Thank you for watching the clip, and taking time to reply.

    Paul Washer has many messages online both as audio and videa. Despite what comes out of his mouth in many of his messages, which sounds as if he doesn't know the Bible very well, he is quite a student of it, and yet would never claim to be a scholar.

    My own view of seeing the Lord's face, is that it is and it isn't what people think. Seeking the Lord = seeking His face.

    But, to say that we cannot see Him now would be to deny a number of NT verses. Paul goes further: he says we 'know' Him, in 2 Cor 5.

    John says: 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (I John 3) We need both.

    I think we have to accept that the Lord did 'appear' to Paul and John, and perhaps Peter also, and who knows how many other believers? We cannot be 'witnesses' unless we have 'seen' Him with the eyes of our hearts, through the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

    I hope that's not too controversial a thought, in the light of what Jesus said to Thomas?

    If our spiritual eyes are blind, it's true, we don't see Him. This was Paul Washer's first point: 'open my dull eyes... '
    Thank you Charisma

    I accept that one day I shall see the face of Jesus as I stand before him at the Judgement Seat. Paul only got to hear the voice of Jesus on the road to Damascus and he was blinded by the light. Those around him only got to hear the voice and saw no man.

    God is very clear on the point that man of sinful flesh cannot see God's face and live. This is not saying man cannot see God's face physically under any circumstances; only that if he does, he will not live to tell of the experience.

    I accept that in my mind's eye I can see God. God has revealed himself through His revealed Word. What is not revealed we cannot know about and what has been revealed, we have to sometimes search it out.

    When Jesus said said to his disciples John 14:9 Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
    I take this to mean that Jesus represented His Father to the extent that in Jesus was all the nature and character of God seen. He was a replica of God if God could have manifested himself in human form.

    John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
    I take this to mean almost the same as the above. His disciples had to come to realize that in seeing Jesus they saw how God would appear to them if God could be physically seen. I cannot physically see God and expect to live because of my nature, but that does not stop me seeing God through His Word whereby He has revealed himself.

    As one of God's children which we are, this is saying we are of God ("he which is of God"). I only become a child of God by adoption Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
    In this way, we look to God as our Father in Heaven as God was Heavenly Father (literally) to Jesus. At this moment in time I have not seen Jesus physically and I have not seen God physically. I have an image of Jesus in my mind, I have no physical image of God in my mind as God is Spirit. Therefore, if I could see Jesus pysically, that is as close as I can come to seeing God.

    The patriarchs knew God without seeing Jesus physically. The partiarchs like Moses was given insight into a saviour that would come. God revealed himself to His people through the prophets and the scriptures that we written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (God's power). Moses and the prophets might have had encounters with Angels. At one point it is recorded that Moses was only permitted to see the hind quarters of God (when Moses was in the Mount) for not even Moses was permitted to see God's face (he would have died on the spot).

    I have to be content to see God in the way that He has revealed himself to me through His Word and let His influencing spirit of His word work in me.


    David
    Last edited by David M; 02-20-2012 at 01:38 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    776

    What Was That?

    Hi Steve, Thank you for having been willing to be ameliorated by that closer look.

    Although, in my defense, your honor: Doesn't that just kinda, sorta, maybe prove my original point? It takes more than just a glimpse to really get to know Jesus. I think he made that loud and clear...'
    I think the same applies in Paul Washer's defence. All he said was that if you could have a 'first glimpse', it makes you want to see Him again and again and again - like the first time you noticed the girl you married...

    Thanks for dipping into the video clips. I knew it was too much to take in at one sitting, and, that the conversational clips are helpful, too.

    It's good to find common ground with you.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

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