Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567
Results 61 to 66 of 66
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prince George, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    1,163
    Hi Les,
    Let me clarify what I didn't say:
    I didn't say our sins had not been atoned for.
    I didn't say we have not been forgiven of our sins, past, present and future.
    I didn't say that Christ did not fullfill all of the sacrifices.

    Curtis, while providing a great description from scripture, on the sacrificial laws given for Atonement, doesn't go very deep in his analogy of the types, particularily the second goat, with the exception that it signified the removal of sins. It would have been helpful if he had offered his conclusions on why it was a "living" offering, unique to only two in Levitical law. Or why it had to have a scarlet thread tied to its horn(a study of the scarlet thread in scripture will provide great insight into this requirement)...or why it paralleled the Holy Spirit leading Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of satan. Jesus didn't accomplish the removal of sins in the wilderness. It qualified and equipped Him to begin His ministry. He repeats the same procedure in and through us.
    You realize Les, that when it speaks in scripture of our sins being removed..the word "removed" means "removal of the penalty"? Christ's death work removed the penalty of sin. This is how He was legally able to be conceived in us, to complete His living work in His Corporate Son. That goat is still walking in the wilderness. Don't make the mistake the Israelites made, and push him off the cliff.
    Last edited by kathryn; 01-11-2008 at 10:29 PM.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    150
    Hi Les,

    It was good to read about the typologies in your last 2 posts, but I did see some inconsistencies.

    Next, the high priest took a golden fire pan or censer and walked up the ramp to the altar. He carefully filled the fire pan with live coals from the fires burning on top of the altar. Then he took two handfuls of incense and placed them in a golden ladle. With the fire pan in his right hand, and the incense in his left, he ascended to the Temple and passed through the Holy Place where the lamp stand, the table of showbread, and altar of incense were located. At the rear of the Holy Place, he paused to make his way through the veil (the thick curtain which separated the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies). Once inside the Holy of Holies, he stood in quiet solitude. Only the soft orange glow of the coals lit the room.

    The high priest poured the incense onto the coals and waited a few moments for a fragrant cloud of smoke to fill the room before making his way back through the thick curtain.
    Here it says that the high priest went into the Holy of Holies with the coals and the incense. After he got inside the curtain, it says he put the incense on the coals. The incense pertains to the spices "chief spices" in Song of Sol. These are made by crushing, and represent the fruits of the Spirit of a life totally dedicated to the Lord, and prayer. In this case it is the pure life of Jesus represented, and if the High priest were to enter the Holy of Holies without first holding the burning incense before him, he would have been killed. And the bells that were on his clothes were also there so that those outside would know if he were still alive. The High Priest also had a rope tied to himself, so that if the bells stopped ringing, those outside would have a way to remove the dead body.

    The high priest then took the golden bowl filled with the bull's blood and returned to the Holy of Holies. He carefully sprinkled the blood before the Ark of the Covenant.
    The high priest sprinkled the Ark itself, on the Mercy Seat, not the area in front of it. The Ark contained the items of judgement in the form of the law that would condemn. The Ark was symbolically sprinkled on top so that God would symbolically see the blood, and not the judgment.

    I wish the author would have gone into depth with a few more things, like the linen garments representing resurrected bodies, the only kind of body that can see God, and the washing and incense representing the sanctification process that we need to go through to get the most out of our salvation.

    Allow me to say a few things about your latest post.

    Hebrews 9:6-8 (NKJV) Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.

    The background of Hebrews 9 is the Day of Atonement. Verse 7 here talks about the High Priest going into the Holy of Holies to make atonement. Now notice, carefully, verse 8. In other words, it is the Holy Spirit who is responsible for the record given to us of the old covenant. And the significance of the outer tabernacle being divided and separated from the inner tabernacle was that the way into the presence of God had not yet been given. The Jews were continually reminded, by the physical presence of the tabernacle, that they were not allowed to enter into the presence of God.

    The words, "while the first tabernacle was still standing" might better be translated, "while the first tabernacle still has any standing" - while the Old Covenant was still in force. As long as the Old Covenant was still in effect, men did not have access to the presence of God. Prior to Jesus' second coming, at which he destroyed the temple and the Old Covenant, no one went to Heaven. Prior to Jesus' second coming in A.D. 70, all who died went to a holding place of the dead and waited for the atoning work of Christ and the resurrection from the dead. Until Christ's second coming, man could not go into God's presence.
    He says in verse 8 that the going into the Holiest could not be made manifest until the old temple was gone. But…… the Old Temple, with the Ark and everything including the correct sacrifices were gone about 500 years prior to Jesus' death and resurrection, so when Paul wrote this, (before AD70), the Old tabernacle had been gone for 500 years, and Jesus manifested His sacrifice to the Father on Resurrection day in AD33, 37 years before the Temple was destroyed.
    Paul said that the way into the Holy of Holies was not able to be manifest as long as the old tabernacle was standing. But the Tabernacle Paul was speaking of was Solomon's Temple, the only one to have the Ark. Zerrubabel's and Herod's Temples only had an empty room, and the whole typology that Paul was describing didn't exist in those 2 temples.

    Two paragraphs later, the author of this article says that it means "while the first Tabernacle has any standing". Well, that's also misleading, because when Jesus died, the curtain was rent, symbolizing that the old covenant was finished, and anyone accepting Jesus no longer had a barrier to salvation. Jesus presented himself as the sacrifice for all of mankind to the Father on Resurrection Sunday, between the time Jesus told Mary not to touch Him, and when He appeared to the disciples and allowed Thomas to touch Him.

    10 lines after this, he says that the temple in AD 70 was destroyed signifying that salvation was complete. This is untrue, because what the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple signified, was judgment that came as the result of the Jewish religious system's refusal to accept Jesus, and God was showing that it was worthless. It was the Anti-type of Jesus' baptism in the Holy Spirit, and then 40 years later, (a time of trial) the refusal of the Jewish system to accept the Holy Spirit. Man had access to the presence of God right after the Resurrection, and most especially after Pentecost.

    By trying to make these events around AD70 to be the Second Coming takes away from the manifold purpose of God, and the manifold meaning contained in these prophecies. It's true that this was the end times for the Jewish religious system, but that's not the only system or the only end times. We're going to come to an end times also. His-story is in the Bible. The revealing of Jesus is contained in the Book. Jesus is alive,well, and working in the world today, and it is written in the scriptures. You just have to learn how to let the Holy Spirit show you where it is......It is the Glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings is to search out a matter. Pr. 25:2

    God Bless Don
    Last edited by Trumpet; 01-11-2008 at 11:12 PM.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Hi all,

    Just an interesting fact to note in our study of the number 40, representing periods of trial.

    Immediately after Jesus was baptized with the Holy Spirit, He began His 40 days of Temptation in the wilderness.

    After the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, the church began its 40 years of trials, leading up to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  4. #64
    Today we are living in the 40th Jubilee cycle from 70 AD.

    Wstruse

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prince George, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    1,163
    A passing out of the pentecostal/refining generation/genea/age of the church...and into Tabernacle age, perhaps?
    Last edited by kathryn; 01-12-2008 at 01:12 PM.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    150
    Hi all,

    I'd like to make a correction to my own mistake.

    I said:
    The high priest sprinkled the Ark itself, on the Mercy Seat, not the area in front of it. The Ark contained the items of judgement in the form of the law that would condemn. The Ark was symbolically sprinkled on top so that God would symbolically see the blood, and not the judgment.
    In Les' post, the article that he copied said that the High priest sprinkled the blood up once and down seven times. After doing some more study, I've found that the blood not only had to be sprinkled on the Mercy Seat, but it also HAD to be sprinkled on the ground.

    I'll be back with more on this as soon as I can gather it together in a readable format.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •