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Thread: Cult of Dusty

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Hello Richard, Steve and CWH!

    Thanks for the varied feedback. It's wished more would at least chime in...whether for or against don't make me no nevermind. It all adds to the mix and livens up this acropolis. You probably couldn't hear me yelling "hellooo" only to hear those echoes of "helloo...helloooo, or maybe you did.

    Not plane, nor bird, nor even frog, it's just little ole' me:
    Timmy Tim Timmy Tim Tim.

    NOW IT'S
    up
    up
    and away

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there Timmy Tim Tim Tim!

    I love your new avatar:

    Attachment 260




    Maybe they realized not your friendly feline intention and felt perhaps as if you were a lonely canine a looking for love! Can't be too careful with the unintended implications when communicating with such a limited bandwidth as these combinations of 26 characters strung in a line!

    Attachment 261



    Attachment 262
    The avitar came via a talmid who sent a link to a Calvinist website. Thanks! The pic was immediately noted and copied to be another one of Timmy's avatars. It was a gut buster here as well, yet the quest continues for a more outrageous preternatural antiparadigmatic surreal avitar expressing sowhat of what Timmy is all about.

    A doggy looking for love? That's good!
    Rudyard Kipling's Just so Story concerning the cat is probably more discriptive of Timmy's way, where the woman in the story performs the first magic and more, yet "i am the cat that walks alone."
    though mayhaps there is fear for life considering felines at times, when human physical awareness systems is moreso in abeyance for a bit, have been known to stick their tails down the throat and suffocate the unaware?


    RE: predestination/free will
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's pretty much the problem. I didn't choose where I was born, who my parents were, or the language consisting of frozen metaphors encrusted with thousands of years of assumptions that is my only means of thinking or communicating. How could anyone think of themselves as "free" when trapped in such a prision?
    One need not even consider oneself free. All men are slaves to one thing or an Other. We do have the choice of what we will do about that situation though.

    It's the oxymoronic cage of freedom. One distances oneself away from one paradigm set only to be bound by another. To do nothing is to live an impoverished life and only be bound by another set of paradigms. The individual capable of becoming or doing more than one...and moreso more than a half dozen different things is far more liberated than the person confined to one activity.

    My selfs ever strive to operate in what only open more doors of possibility.

    Interestingly, and found to be more than what the word meaning permits, the Hebrew word for salvation is to be released into a wide open place, a boundless expanse. It manifests through the paradox of limiting our thoughts words and acts to God's expectation with (and perspective of) us. It's thought many confuse scripture simply by failure to understand that only by acting in opposition to this kosmos in a way that is time out of mind freedom manifests. (Bind yourself to God and you become free: to live, you must die; mourn and rejoice for the poor are rich; maturity comes through greater dependence on God; et al...)

    Many just cannot handle that...and still, every moment every day just ticks away and for what?
    After everything is said and done by any person, what have they to show for it all except laying in a box buried six feet under the stars.

    i once read, "YOU ARE YOUR OWN STAR" and said, "Yeah, right, now this i gotta' see." Maybe one day as fodder in a funeral pyre perhaps, but life on earth for me was seen as a soap bubble, seemingly thermodynamically inert, but ready to burst none the less, at any unexpected moment.




    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I would tend to agree. Folks are not really defending God anyway - they are defending their own ideas about God! I trust the magnitude of that difference is plain to see.
    DEFINITELY!

    It just that so many seem out to prove their point as absolute when they themselves are no better off--and more often than not less--than many others. It's the old foolhardy notion that by comparing ourselves with ourselves it's erroneously thought we can somehow come off better than we were before this useless pursuit is initiated.

    i give perspective and i know that my perspective is not me...and changes through time. Stagnators tend to close off themselves in little boxes and somehow find a sense of security or comfort standing on the floor within it surrounded by four square walls spending their whole life building a ceiling to save themselves from what's out there, outside of the box...and then in their demise or death, find that the box is gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Ah ... I think he's just venting after discovering that he'd been fooled for 30 years. Gotta cut him some slack, eh?
    Dusty is more than venting friend. He ended up locked in one box through circumstances beyond his control. Now he is building another based on that first model, though he considers it a correct revision. He's still fooled and doesn't even realize it.

    Sometimes ya' just gotta' let it all go and move in another directioon altogether if you ever will move beyond and outside of what constrains us in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Ah yes, the picture is becoming clearer. I'm surprised a Calvinist would let you ask questions. I'd be even more surprized if you made any progress showing him his theology was not consistent with the "full counsel of God" since the Bible has plenty of Calvinist verses. Predestination? Plainly stated. None can believe unless elected by God? Plainly stated. Some are predistinated for hell? Plainly stated. I think Calvinism wrong, but I also think it has lots of Biblical support.
    It really wasn't a matter of asking questions per se, so much as admitting i did not believe what was claimed to be truth ...until it could be proven. It was in the questioning of their proof and providing alternate possibilities that this teacher/theologian dug his own hole.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I'm glad you feel encouraged! It can be an discouraging world at times - especially on internet forums ... and especially on internet forums where we talk of religion!
    If it were not for Charis' mostly, even as your interaction with this one, i most likely would not be typing into the cyberspheres at all. i've been graciously given more than a heaping full plate without this extra-cirricular activity. Oh yeah, it's fun; but i'm a face to face kinda' guy who even avoids telephones like the plague. (Quit the feat you all have achieved in getting this one to even both typing anything but another essay or book...and it even seems more personal than telechatter. Now that is something.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I don't understand that verse. It seems very strange in light of other verses, specifically:

    "For God so loved the world" + "If anyone loves the world, the love for the father is not in him" = direct contradiction.
    Thanks for chiming in CWH. It's great and there is agreement here.

    Richard, the disparity you see of these two verses is that English only has one word for love and K.(ommon) Greek has 5 different words all written as the one word "LOVE" in english.

    John 3.16s word for love means 'a civic responsibility of moral obligation' and holds no aspect of treasuring, appreciation, or feelings towards the object(ive) in it's meaning.

    The word for love in I Jn is better quoted like this:
    If anyone "lives-and-breaths-for" the world, the "giving-without-expecting-reward" [possessed] of the Father is not in him. (Please note two aspects of the same word love in this verse are given towards our better understanding of what kind of love this word actually means.)

    See, CHW is right on! There is no contradiction at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    It's like everything else in the Bible. It really doesn't make much sense when you think about it. We are commanded to love everyone when God himself hates most people sufficiently to send them to an eternal Aushwitz that makes Hitler look like Mother Theresa?

    It's all confusion based on contradictory assumptions.
    Though we all must draw conclusions about anything we deal with, when we label something, whether in distain or approval, human tendency is to think the issue is settled. It is our own failure to look further, dig deeper, and critically assess all the various nuances of any given thing by just thinking since i have pinned a label on that already so that is what it is.
    (Man looks at the outward appearance, and more often then not, hypothetically at that.)



    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I'm not familiar with Dusty's "American's Love Incest" is that another video he made?
    Yes, or check out:


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    The Dominator Model is God as OTHER who is also DICTATOR.

    Holistic Model everyone derives their being from God, but we are all free in the most fundamental sense. A good analogy would be the Top-down dictatorship like the old Soviet Union Communism vs. the Capitalist Free Enterprise system where everyone is free to do their own thing. The one is very "clunky" and "herky-jerky" and unable to do anything with any grace because one person (or committee) at the top is trying to control everything, whereas the other is like nature and everyone works together (or not) but we have the great strength that comes from many free creatures making thier own decisions.

    The idea of God as the Ground of Being does not imply a top-down dictatorship.


    The fact that Ultimate Reality (God) is non-dual does not mean that dualities like light and dark, up and down, good and evil, do not "exist" at our level of consciousness. It only means that they are not the "ultimate reality."
    How does what was explained of the Yeshua Ha'Melki, the Living Word of God, seperate Him from His creation?

    Perhaps our individual ideas about ground of being begin in different places so that the conclusions are not on the same page?

    How is God a dictator?
    (You might find yourself chasing infinite circles of snakes eating their own tails by rejecting some portions of scripture and only accepting certain others. i mean, how logical is it to play chess without the checkered board to place the pieces on?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    As for looking to the Bible for moral instructions ... say what? I'd do that if I wanted 32,000 sex slaves (Numbers 31), or 300 wives and 700 concubines (Solomon), or to be free to steal a man's wife and kill her husband with the only consequence being that the child dies (David) ... in other words, do you really think that the Bible teachs true morality?
    As stated previously, i do not believe IN(to) the Bible. i believe the Bible because it just is the way it says things are. The Bible does not come to be understood through reasoning things out. FAITH(fulness) onto God results in just one of many rewards in KNOWING without the felt need to understand the Bible.

    Second, if the scripture is not tested (through obedience to what you already know of what God says to do), the only answers one will come up with are vain imaginings, speculative at best. i will not try to prove to anyone that the Bible should be believed, but rather attempt to show through this life how without following Yeshua the best we can expect are chasing after the wind in this life, and worms eating away our rotting carcasses afterwards.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I own a beautiful bi-lingual copy of the Likutei Amarim - Tanya. It's got some interesting stuff in it. It's from my "old days" when I was studying Kabbalah before falling into fundamentalist Christianity. I'm glad I never felt a need to burn it along with all my Crowley books.

    And yes, the Kabbalistic rabbis make up endless mountains of ridiculous crap. Did you know that the Zohar teaches that David did not sin in the matter of Bathsheba? How's that for insane? It says that Uriah gave her a bill of divorce before going to battle, and a bunch of other insane crap. Religion really ruins people's minds.
    Among many other things, yes, David did not sin because we all know a piece of parchment with black sqiggly lines makes everything alright, doeasn't it! (Actually, it is the reason behind him not being tried or punished through Levitical jurisprudence.)

    Since you still hold these books, the old days, in one sense, are still with you.

    Myself, i came to a point realizing Crowley was no more real than any fluff bunny wiccan or New Ager, and at best, find solace in self-enchanted imagining of things they do not have a clear picture of at all: decieving and being decieved.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Do you recall which post the comment was under?
    http://www.biblewheel.com/blog/index...y#comment-5632
    (Scroll down to September 12)


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's all good, except the languge that suggests "God created" as if "he" were seperate from his creation. I think it is more accurate to think of creation like leaves (us) emerging from a tree (God).

    The language of a "seperate God" is just a primitive way of thinking, like God as "king" who "rules over his creation." All those metaphors are seriously erroneous.


    Again, that is picturing God as a human. I think that leads to errors.
    That was not the picture intended at all. Though yes, Yeshua Ha'Maschiach, now flesh and bone is human, great God and Savior for all serve Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    If God were really like that, and he really did "write the Bible" then he could have done a much better job. That's why I just can't believe that he is anything like the confused image presented in the Bible. I say "confused" because we get a wide variety of "gods" presented as the One God in the Bible. He's mean, and petty and does really stupid things like impose a three year famine on Israel until David finally askes "What's up?" and god says "I'm still mad about Saul killing some Gibeonites" - and then we get the high and exalted view of Isaiah where God is "creator" and then we get the Garden story where God walks around asking "Yo, Adam? Where'd you go man?" etc., etc., etc. There's not even a coherent picture of a god in the Bible - what am I supposed to believe?
    God did not write the Bible. Men wrote what God intends, has done, is doing, and will do.
    You need a chessboard.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Yes, there are many mysteries in the universe. But do those mysteries imply we should believe in ancient superstitions? I don't think so.
    Neither do i.
    Here is the issue of anthropomorphing in ordeer to comprehend waves and strings and resulting field.
    (Should the world continue, perhaps terms replacing objectifications will be replaced by some other mode of identifier?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I don't know anything about Susan Sontog's notion.
    Here's the repeat from a former post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Hardly infallible,
    Timmy


    ...and just an extrapolated tidbit of thought if you will consider this through the wait time until reconvening to respond appropriately:

    "Interpretation is the revenge of intellect upon art. even more, it is the revenge of the intellect upon the world. To interpret is to impoverish, to deplete the world--in order to set up a shadow world of meaning."
    ~Susan Sontag?


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Years ago I met a man named Noah with a dog named Zark. He was a nice guy.

    But do you really think there was a time when there was never any rain? The physics doesn't work. It's pure mythology.

    I don't think Gilgamesh is "more valid" but I do think it is the source of the Biblical myth.
    Yes, there was a time the world was enveloped in a misty canopy when water 'rained' from the ground,
    then everything was, in a sense, just flipped upside down.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Which video was funny?


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I can't imagine the true God talking like that, at least not in the context of assuming the Bible is "his word."
    Seriously????
    Maybe that's the problem with God dictating words to men for secretaries when that might better be done by a woman?

    Then again, the legwork would probably be too taxing. What if David were an Amazon?

    Or could you imagine an Amazonian Samuel chopping Agag to pieces?




    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Sure ... some alternate interpretation of the Bible could be true in every particular. No problem. But the traditional interpretation is not true.
    Please refer to the above re-quoted Susan Sontag qoute.
    Any time one interprets anything, each time it is done, it is one more step removed from the source.
    Our biggest failure in doing this is assuming our own cultural biase is the end all in all answer in properly interpreting anything. A failure to assume the world view of the writer only leads to disasterous misconantifabrications.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    What does it mean not to "doubt what is written of Him" if you don't know the proper interpretation?
    It means you come to know the Source of the discourse first. After learning how He thinks, you end up through association beginning to think like Him ...and through the course of time, things become more and more understandable. It's an interactive process, objectivity found through relating with the Author.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    And why do you believe the Bible in the first place? How do you know which parts are "from God" (if any) and which are not?
    See above.

    What is not understood is not of concern if it is not relative to here and now.
    This does not happen by acting as if you are an outsider looking in.
    Get a chessboard first.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    It is not "God" that I am judging. It is the words that men have written concerning God. Again, you must explain why anyone should believe the Bible. And when you read those words, you are compelled to "judge" because interpretation is an act of judgment.

    If the Bible speaks of a square circle you can claim to believe it but you really can't because the concept is logically incoherent.
    There can be no judgement of anything until it is proven.
    It is not the Bible one should believe.
    Interpretation is an act TOWARDS judgement.
    Interpretation is not judgement at all.
    Acting on what we interpret is when judgement occurs: by us, for us, and against us (all at once these things go into motion.)

    i could tell you how to sqaure the cirlce but then i'de have to kill you.
    Honesty, how hypothetical do you want to make this?
    Inappropriate analogies only stray from the issues discussed, and here you are the one who first brought up "No true Scottsman."

    ...infinite circles of snakes eating their own tails and how do you think our worm Ourboros would have it?
    (Thoughts are wandering to a time when a chaotheriomorphic paradigm upheld manifested retrograde enchantments to the point where is seemed like was living out the story of the "The Sorcerer's Apprentice.")




    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Well, I gotta go. That's one long post you wrote! I'll see if I can finish it up later.
    I have too much of a workload right now so don't even sweat responding if it seems unwarranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Great chatting!

    Richard
    Thanks for your time and attention bro!

    i do have one question though.
    How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop?

    Have a good one man!


    Timmy Tim Tim Tim
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

  2. #22
    wyocowboy Guest

    Giving things up

    giving a good paying job has nothing to do with being a con-artisit...aparently you don't know what a con-artist is. Also jesus never exist, the Agnostic admitted to making him up to help people get more spiritual. Christianity is nothing but a made up religion like all religions. and I am delusional.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Not all preachers are con men. Many non-preachers and non-Christians are also con-men. I have friends who gave up their high paying jobs such as engineers, managers, doctors, nurses to become preachers earning a meagre salary compare to what they were getting in their previous jobs. It's a calling, it's a sacrifice. They are doing an honest job and getting an honest salary. Please be fair and consider their sacrifices when you gave that statement that preachers are con-men. Many Jesus apostles were also earning good salary.... tax collectors, fishermen and yet they gave up everything they had to follow Jesus. They could have also become billionaires by raising the dead, casting out demons and curing the sick yet they were not interested in earthly riches but heavenly rewards. In the end many were martyred. Their examples and sacrifices are admirable. Would we do the same for Jesus?

    Matthew 19:27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

    28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

    30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.



    May God Bless our lives.
    Last edited by Unregistered; 03-12-2013 at 12:56 AM.

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