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  1. #231
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    the rereward

    Happy New Year All! That's a good post about doctrine Bob. I was thinking of the "rereward" the other day, when we were talking about the integrated circuit (and the "head" swallowing the "tail").
    In the march around Jericho, the ark or "head" began the circuit, the rereward followed in the rear. They did 13 (love/unity) completed circuits before the wall of Jericho fell.
    Jericho is a type of the carnal mind (and doctrines) of man...which are destroyed when the power in the circuit returns to its source...or the "head/ark" and "rereward" are re-mem-ber-ed in love/unity. The word "rereward" has the meaning of both gathering and removing.

    Richard...thanks for the info on the "631" and the doorkeeper. I didn't realize this!

  2. #232
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    Oct 2010
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    Unfortunately, like Bob a couple weeks ago, I spent a great deal of time and effort on a post last night but lost it during the preview. I believe this was due to the fact that I’d left it for a few hours to spend time with my son. When I came back, I spent a while longer researching and writing, then tried to go to the preview page, and Voila! the post was gone. I tried the auto-restore feature, but it only returned one sentence. Therefore, even though I managed to gain some insight for myself concerning what happens to the goats at the second resurrection, I believe now that discussing it at length here may be a bit off-topic, so I’m going to abandon that particular theme in favor of another.

    Having said that, I was reading through the elephant section in Colonna’s Hypnerotomachia and came across more information that seems to articulate the nature of the elephant’s relationship to the obelisk. As Richard said in an earlier post, the text describes the obelisk as passing through the elephant. As you can see in the picture below, this seems to be exactly the case:

    Name:  hypnerot00colluoft_0046.jpg
Views: 75
Size:  86.5 KB

    The narrator goes on to give more information about the obelisk passing through the elephant, saying he was able to ascend a number of steps and enter into the base by a cavern. Inside, he was able to verify that the obelisk did indeed pass through the elephant. Likewise, he was able to see two sepulchers, one with the statue of a nude king holding a shield and pointing a scepter, and the other with the statue of a nude queen pointing 'to that part behind her shoulders' with the 'foremost finger' of her right hand and holding a tablet in her left. Upon the tablet was written an epigram in three languages, one of which is Hebrew. Here are pictures of the scene, along with the epigram, that Colonna provides:

    Name:  hypnerot00colluoft_0048.jpg
Views: 76
Size:  59.8 KB

    Name:  hypnerot00colluoft_0049.jpg
Views: 76
Size:  64.3 KB

    As others on this forum have better skill with Hebrew grammar than I do and because the letters are smudged here and there, I thought I would introduce the epigram into the discussion to see if anyone else can translate. (Here is a link to the online copy I've been reading: http://www.archive.org/stream/hypner...e/n47/mode/2up)

    It seems to me that the two statues are playing Vav and Samek roles, mirroring the elephant and obelisk. The man is pointing with his scepter upright (like the obelisk) and the woman is pointing to her back (that part of the elephant that apparently supports the obelisk). Likewise, there is clearly a reference to sexual intercourse. The elephant/samek is being penetrated by the obelisk/vav.
    Last edited by lenvande; 01-01-2012 at 04:09 PM.

  3. #233
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    I’m revisiting the sum of the double numbers that appear in the chain of artistic influences (from Colonna to Dali) and the year our discussion of it originated (2011). There are a few other things that are peculiar about these numbers and how they are positioned. Chronologically, the double numbers are arranged in descending order. I’ve looked at the identities and see some interesting connections here and there but not enough to discuss them at length here.

    What I’ve noted most is that, if we use the heuristic provided on the Wheel and World History forum, the century numbers correspond to the following Hebrew letters:

    Cen. Letter
    15th Samek
    17th Pey
    20th Resh
    21st Shin

    What is interesting about how the letters are arranged is that you can make out direct spellings of different words without the use of anagrams. Though there are a few, the two that stand out most to me are the following:

    SPR = To write or scribe

    PRSh = To separate (the root of Pharisee)

    The two letters that both words share are PR (280). When I researched this number, I came up with some interesting identities from Bill Heidrick’s website on Hebrew Gematria. (Here is a link to the page I consulted for a full view of what he’s listed there: (http://billheidrick.com/works/hgm2/hg0280.htm#280):

    HORH – to make naked, to uncover or expose
    HPK LMOLH – to turn right over
    HRYSH – a tearing down, a ruin
    YRO – to tremble, to shake
    MMR – bitterness or sorrow
    SKR – to shut up; also, to hire
    OYR – a city; heat; anger; suckling, a young ass, a foal or colt
    ORVD – a wild ass

    Not everything listed under the numeric weight of 280 is bad or undesirable. However, much, if not most, of what is given echoes the fall of Jerusalem.

    Also interesting are the two references to young and wild asses. Of course, Jesus came to Jerusalem riding an ass and colt. Many rabbis believe that there are either two Messiahs or two possible ways he might come alluded to in the TNK. If Jews are worthy, he will come on a horse. If not, he will come on a donkey.

    Stephen E. Jones of God’s Kingdom Ministries compares donkeys to the wheat harvest and oxen to the barley harvest. Oxen are much hardier draft animals than donkeys just like barley is much hardier than wheat. Oxen can easily outwork donkeys, and unlike wheat, which is highly dependent on the rainy seasons, barley can grow even in drought. According to Jones, oxen and barley, which is used for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, represent those who are resurrected first and given the greater reward. Donkeys and wheat, which is used for the Feast of Weeks and leavened, represent those who are resurrected second and given a lesser or even no reward.

    The point is that, according to the NT, Jerusalem was destined to fall because of the wild-ass and leavened dispositions of the Pharisees and scribes. Therefore, I find it very interesting that the roots of these titles are near anagrams of each other, the only difference being the Samek in SPR and the Shin in PRSh, and that the identities of the numerical weight they share mirror so much of what Jesus said about them and what would ultimately happen to Jerusalem if they did not accept him as Messiah:

    Matt 21:42 (KJV) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
    45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
    46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

    Those religious leaders in Jerusalem who believed in resurrection expected to be resurrected first and reign during the Kingdom Age. It is understandable, then, that they would be indignant to hear that they would be at the second general resurrection and that another nation would inherit the first. In other words, Gentiles would become the heads in the Kingdom and be given the greater portion.
    Last edited by lenvande; 01-01-2012 at 11:42 PM.

  4. #234
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    Yakima, Wa
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenvande View Post
    Unfortunately, like Bob a couple weeks ago, I spent a great deal of time and effort on a post last night but lost it during the preview. I believe this was due to the fact that I’d left it for a few hours to spend time with my son. When I came back, I spent a while longer researching and writing, then tried to go to the preview page, and Voila! the post was gone. I tried the auto-restore feature, but it only returned one sentence. Therefore, even though I managed to gain some insight for myself concerning what happens to the goats at the second resurrection, I believe now that discussing it at length here may be a bit off-topic, so I’m going to abandon that particular theme in favor of another.

    Having said that, I was reading through the elephant section in Colonna’s Hypnerotomachia and came across more information that seems to articulate the nature of the elephant’s relationship to the obelisk. As Richard said in an earlier post, the text describes the obelisk as passing through the elephant. As you can see in the picture below, this seems to be exactly the case:



    The narrator goes on to give more information about the obelisk passing through the elephant, saying he was able to ascend a number of steps and enter into the base by a cavern. Inside, he was able to verify that the obelisk did indeed pass through the elephant. Likewise, he was able to see two sepulchers, one with the statue of a nude king holding a shield and pointing a scepter, and the other with the statue of a nude queen pointing 'to that part behind her shoulders' with the 'foremost finger' of her right hand and holding a tablet in her left. Upon the tablet was written an epigram in three languages, one of which is Hebrew. Here are pictures of the scene, along with the epigram, that Colonna provides:

    Name:  hypnerot00colluoft_0048.jpg
Views: 76
Size:  59.8 KB

    Name:  hypnerot00colluoft_0049.jpg
Views: 76
Size:  64.3 KB

    As others on this forum have better skill with Hebrew grammar than I do and because the letters are smudged here and there, I thought I would introduce the epigram into the discussion to see if anyone else can translate. (Here is a link to the online copy I've been reading: http://www.archive.org/stream/hypner...e/n47/mode/2up)

    It seems to me that the two statues are playing Vav and Samek roles, mirroring the elephant and obelisk. The man is pointing with his scepter upright (like the obelisk) and the woman is pointing to her back (that part of the elephant that apparently supports the obelisk). Likewise, there is clearly a reference to sexual intercourse. The elephant/samek is being penetrated by the obelisk/vav.
    Hey there Len,

    There certainly is not end to where this rabbit trail will lead! It would take some time to read and understand the whole book. It's really curious though that it is all about a dream vision, and that we were led here from the Dumbo Dream.

    The inscriptions are difficult for two reasons. One, they are hard to read, and two, they may contain made up words! (Poliphori is known for that).

    I'll see if I can figure them out as time permits.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #235
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    Oct 2007
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    Hi Richard....a little synchronicity to add to the list :-) We sat down last night to watch a movie for the first time in months..."Unknown" with Liam Neeson. He's in a car accident and is unconscious for four days. When he wakes up, the medical staff tell him it's November 24th.

  6. #236
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    Oct 2010
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there Len,

    There certainly is not end to where this rabbit trail will lead! It would take some time to read and understand the whole book. It's really curious though that it is all about a dream vision, and that we were led here from the Dumbo Dream.

    The inscriptions are difficult for two reasons. One, they are hard to read, and two, they may contain made up words! (Poliphori is known for that).

    I'll see if I can figure them out as time permits.

    All the best,

    Richard
    Okay, Richard. Thanks for taking a look. I appreciate it.

    I half-thought Colonna might have just written some Hebrew gibberish. Regardless, what confused me most was the way he wrote what looked like either sameks or final mems (inappropriately placed) and either heys, chets, or tavs.

    Thanks again, Richard, and all the best to you and yours.

    Len

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenvande View Post
    Okay, Richard. Thanks for taking a look. I appreciate it.

    I half-thought Colonna might have just written some Hebrew gibberish. Regardless, what confused me most was the way he wrote what looked like either sameks or final mems (inappropriately placed) and either heys, chets, or tavs.

    Thanks again, Richard, and all the best to you and yours.

    Len
    Hey there Len,

    I don't think it's gibberish - scholars say he made up words (neologisms) and I'm thinking he might be like a medieval James Joyce, who also played an important role in my awakening during the Dumbo Dream time. Specifically, Joyce's Finnegans Wake is a "dream book" of puns and neologisms from beginning to end, and many dream-like overlapping images. It's really an amazing book but it can be very difficult to understand. It is very popular amongst a few of the "trippers" who explore higher consciousness, dreams, and other altered states. I had a dream where I picked up Joyce's personal sigla he devised for HCE - it was years before I discovered what it meant. Here is the entry from my dream journal from 12/1/1990:
    Swimming in a blue pool, lots under water, full of kids playing. I talked to them in bubbles. Health tests came back. Everything OK except a few cases of spinach stomach. One kid's test came back too late for him to participate.
    Saw a thin copy of Finnegans Wake Guide Boo with FW interlaced as some pair of Hebrew letters on the cover - hologrammic - refracts light to get different letters.
    Here's a pic of from my dream journal so you can see the form of the interlocking letters on the cover (note that it was the same morning that I had the dream about the Master who wanted to play a game of "pool" for "2 or 3 bucks." See the pun? In the next dream I was swimming in a "pool."

    Name:  FW_Dream.gif
Views: 78
Size:  348.0 KB


    The images at the bottom are very rough representations. In the dream, they were like holographs that would change to different interlocking letters depending on the angle of view. The first is an F interlocking with a W and the second is two horizontal letters E. It was a couple years later that I discovered this was Joyce's own private sigla for his central character HCE = Humphrey Chimden Earwicker. Here's a page from the book The Sigla of Finnegans Wake where the symbols are defined:

    Name:  0016.gif
Views: 77
Size:  25.4 KB

    The other main character was ALP (Anna Livia Plurabilities) = Aleph = 111. She was represented by a triangle. Joyce had a lot of Kabbalism in his book ... indeed, he attempted to represent the entire universe in it!

    Given that Finnegans Wake invaded my dreams, I felt inclined to see what was on page 528 of Finnegans Wake. Imagine my surprise when I found a reference to Jumbo followed by the words Ding Dong! (Dalet Dalet ==> 44), as well as the concept of knocking and opening a door:
    Eusapia! Fais-le, tout-tait! Languishing hysteria? The clou
    historique? How is this at all? Is dads the thing in such or are
    tits the that? Hear we here her first poseproem of suora unto
    suora? Alicious, twinstreams twinestraines, through alluring
    glass or alas in jumboland? Ding dong! Where's your pal in
    silks alustre? Think of a maiden, Presentacion. Double her,
    Annupciacion. Take your first thoughts away from her,
    Immacolacion. Knock and it shall appall unto you! Who shone yet
    shimmers will be e'er scheining. Cluse her, voil her, hild her hindly.
    After liryc and themodius soft aglo iris of the vals. This young
    barlady, what, euphemiasly? Is she having an ambidual act
    herself in apparition with herself as Consuelas to Sonias may?

    Dang! And tether, a loguy O !

    Dis and dat and dese and dose ! Your crackling out of your
    turn, my Moonster firefly, like always. And 2 R.N. and
    Longhorns Connacht, stay off my air! You've grabbed the capital and
    you've had the lion's shire since 1542 but there's all the difference
    in Ireland between your borderation, my chatty cove, and me. The
    leinstrel boy to the wall is gone and there's moreen astoreen for
    Monn and Conn. With the tyke's named moke. Doggymens'
    nimmer win! You last led the first when we last but we'll first
    trump your last with a lasting. Jump the railchairs or take them,
    as you please, but and, sir, my queskins first, foxyjack! Ye've as
    much skullabogue cheek on you now as would boil a caldron of kalebrose.

    Much of the symbolism is very meaningful to me personally, but I can't explain it all right now.

    The point of all this is to show that Poliphori seems a lot like a medieval version of Joyce, and that both are "dream books" and contain images closely linked to the Dumbo Dream. Also, given your interest in tracing these things out, I thought it important for you to know about Finnegans Wake.

    Oh, and here is one persons take on the whole structure of Finnegans Wake. Note the siglas on top for HCE, ALP, etc. And the "four cycles" are intriguing, of course!

    Name:  moholy_lg.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  208.7 KB




    Great chatting!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #238
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there Len,

    I don't think it's gibberish - scholars say he made up words (neologisms) and I'm thinking he might be like a medieval James Joyce, who also played an important role in my awakening during the Dumbo Dream time. Specifically, Joyce's Finnegans Wake is a "dream book" of puns and neologisms from beginning to end, and many dream-like overlapping images. It's really an amazing book but it can be very difficult to understand. It is very popular amongst a few of the "trippers" who explore higher consciousness, dreams, and other altered states. I had a dream where I picked up Joyce's personal sigla he devised for HCE - it was years before I discovered what it meant. Here is the entry from my dream journal from 12/1/1990:
    Swimming in a blue pool, lots under water, full of kids playing. I talked to them in bubbles. Health tests came back. Everything OK except a few cases of spinach stomach. One kid's test came back too late for him to participate.
    Saw a thin copy of Finnegans Wake Guide Boo with FW interlaced as some pair of Hebrew letters on the cover - hologrammic - refracts light to get different letters.
    Here's a pic of from my dream journal so you can see the form of the interlocking letters on the cover (note that it was the same morning that I had the dream about the Master who wanted to play a game of "pool" for "2 or 3 bucks." See the pun? In the next dream I was swimming in a "pool."

    Name:  FW_Dream.gif
Views: 78
Size:  348.0 KB


    The images at the bottom are very rough representations. In the dream, they were like holographs that would change to different interlocking letters depending on the angle of view. The first is an F interlocking with a W and the second is two horizontal letters E. It was a couple years later that I discovered this was Joyce's own private sigla for his central character HCE = Humphrey Chimden Earwicker. Here's a page from the book The Sigla of Finnegans Wake where the symbols are defined:

    Name:  0016.gif
Views: 77
Size:  25.4 KB

    The other main character was ALP (Anna Livia Plurabilities) = Aleph = 111. She was represented by a triangle. Joyce had a lot of Kabbalism in his book ... indeed, he attempted to represent the entire universe in it!

    Given that Finnegans Wake invaded my dreams, I felt inclined to see what was on page 528 of Finnegans Wake. Imagine my surprise when I found a reference to Jumbo followed by the words Ding Dong! (Dalet Dalet ==> 44), as well as the concept of knocking and opening a door:
    Eusapia! Fais-le, tout-tait! Languishing hysteria? The clou
    historique? How is this at all? Is dads the thing in such or are
    tits the that? Hear we here her first poseproem of suora unto
    suora? Alicious, twinstreams twinestraines, through alluring
    glass or alas in jumboland? Ding dong! Where's your pal in
    silks alustre? Think of a maiden, Presentacion. Double her,
    Annupciacion. Take your first thoughts away from her,
    Immacolacion. Knock and it shall appall unto you! Who shone yet
    shimmers will be e'er scheining. Cluse her, voil her, hild her hindly.
    After liryc and themodius soft aglo iris of the vals. This young
    barlady, what, euphemiasly? Is she having an ambidual act
    herself in apparition with herself as Consuelas to Sonias may?

    Dang! And tether, a loguy O !

    Dis and dat and dese and dose ! Your crackling out of your
    turn, my Moonster firefly, like always. And 2 R.N. and
    Longhorns Connacht, stay off my air! You've grabbed the capital and
    you've had the lion's shire since 1542 but there's all the difference
    in Ireland between your borderation, my chatty cove, and me. The
    leinstrel boy to the wall is gone and there's moreen astoreen for
    Monn and Conn. With the tyke's named moke. Doggymens'
    nimmer win! You last led the first when we last but we'll first
    trump your last with a lasting. Jump the railchairs or take them,
    as you please, but and, sir, my queskins first, foxyjack! Ye've as
    much skullabogue cheek on you now as would boil a caldron of kalebrose.

    Much of the symbolism is very meaningful to me personally, but I can't explain it all right now.

    The point of all this is to show that Poliphori seems a lot like a medieval version of Joyce, and that both are "dream books" and contain images closely linked to the Dumbo Dream. Also, given your interest in tracing these things out, I thought it important for you to know about Finnegans Wake.

    Oh, and here is one persons take on the whole structure of Finnegans Wake. Note the siglas on top for HCE, ALP, etc. And the "four cycles" are intriguing, of course!

    Name:  moholy_lg.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  208.7 KB




    Great chatting!

    Richard
    Truly amazing stuff, Richard. It makes me look at my college days studying literature in a whole new light. I was never a big follower of the Modernists. I was more interested in the Elizabethans and 19th c. British and American literature. However, I have read the Dead and Araby out of Joyce's more accessible Dubliners.

    I've considered reading Finnegan's Wake and Ulysses but haven't done so yet. One of my old lit professors would always say there were three greats: Homer, Big Bill (aka Shakespeare), and Joyce.

    Thanks for sharing. I've been learning a lot from this forum.

    Len

  9. #239
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenvande View Post
    Truly amazing stuff, Richard. It makes me look at my college days studying literature in a whole new light. I was never a big follower of the Modernists. I was more interested in the Elizabethans and 19th c. British and American literature. However, I have read the Dead and Araby out of Joyce's more accessible Dubliners.

    I've considered reading Finnegan's Wake and Ulysses but haven't done so yet. One of my old lit professors would always say there were three greats: Homer, Big Bill (aka Shakespeare), and Joyce.

    Thanks for sharing. I've been learning a lot from this forum.

    Len
    Hey there Len,

    I tried to read Ulysses like a novel many times. Each time it makes more "sense" and I get further into it before I hit the "Leviticus moment" when it seems like the most tedious book ever written. And Finnegans Wake is a thousand times more challenging. It's really only good for an in depth study or a mystic looking for synchronistic insight like what we get with the I Ching.

    I'm glad you are learning a lot here. I hope this will continue in the New Year - the Year of Lamed (12 = Learning)!

    And speaking of Lamed - the 12th letter - can be interpreted as L (to) MD (44), so it seems to contain a connection with the 12 x 44 dream numbers. I feel like there is something significant here that I can't quite see yet.

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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