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Thread: Codex Magica

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Not knowing anything about these "secret societies", I do find it interesting when people jokingly laugh it off with a veiled mocking of any proponent of it. Obviously, it is condescending but I wonder if there is anything else behind it.

    This all brings up an observation I have made over the years in being an observer of human behaviour and it seems interesting to me how different people react when some kind of supposed "conspiracy theory" is brought up.

    I see that with a lot of different subjects.

    I have read a bit through the years and have noticed the derision that goes on towards people that talk about the Club of Rome, Illuminati, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderburg Group, etc, etc. They mock and joke about proposed conspiracies as if they are actually "in the know" about something. Most people that don't have a clue about something won't do that. However, people that do know about something and want to keep it secret,,, well you get my point.

    Some take these subjects very seriously and others mock them derisively. I'm not saying secret societies don't exist and aren't serious. But, I'm not going to spend my life trying to uncover them. I guess that is what Texe Marrs did or is doing ( I don't even know if he is dead or alive).

    From what I have learned about history and conspiracies, there are two views. The "Accidental View of History" and the "Conspiratorial View of History". The Accidental View of course is always accidental until proven fact. Like Hitlers conspiracy to invade Poland and then the reality of it. Whether the burning of the Reichstag was conspiratorial, it has never really been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Anyway, I would think if one is part of a "secret society", one would want to keep it secret. Right? That is why I find joking or mocking an individual about secret societies could also be a technique in continuing to achieve their goal of secrecy. If I wanted to keep something secret, I would certainly laugh it off as "crazy".

    All the best,
    Rick
    Good intuition.
    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis



    "It is only by the exercise of Reason, that man can discover God."
    ~ Thomas Paine

  2. #12
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    Codex Magica

    Hi Rick and all,

    Interesting thread...

    Anyway, I would think if one is part of a "secret society", one would want to keep it secret. Right? That is why I find joking or mocking an individual about secret societies could also be a technique in continuing to achieve their goal of secrecy. If I wanted to keep something secret, I would certainly laugh it off as "crazy".
    Do you remember there is an element of 'mocking' in the name Ishmael, just as there is contrasting 'laughter' in Isaac?

    Some verses which bring light on the matter of the supposed secrecy of the powers of darkness, come from Paul's analysis:

    Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


    Acts 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which [promise] our twelve tribes, instantly serving [God] day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

    9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them]. 11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled [them] to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities. 12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

    13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill [me]. 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. 24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. 25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness. 26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.


    To be accused of madness for believing God's assessment of spiritual reality is normal. It happened to Jesus, too.

    Mark 3:20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. 22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

    It has to be asked why anyone would want to be on the losing side?

    And, why would anyone put forward evil as the more desirable morality?

    Why would they think that when they opposed the Prince of Life as He went about doing good, healing, preaching repentance toward God and forgiveness for sins, it was not obvious to all, that they did not have anyone's wellbeing at heart?

    That they labour under the misapprehension that darkness, sin, death and destruction is more desirable than light and life, only proves what Paul and John said about darkness blinding the minds of those who are perishing - and that they don't 'see' it as 'a lie', or, truly, that they 'love' 'a lie'. Of course, everyone is entitled* to their own opinion. It always surprises me that those who reserve the right to deny God on those terms, are reluctant to grant those who believe in Him the same* freedom.


    Isaiah 5

    20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
    that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

    22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
    23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

    24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust:
    because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi Rick and all,

    Interesting thread...



    Do you remember there is an element of 'mocking' in the name Ishmael, just as there is contrasting 'laughter' in Isaac?

    Some verses which bring light on the matter of the supposed secrecy of the powers of darkness, come from Paul's analysis:

    Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


    Acts 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which [promise] our twelve tribes, instantly serving [God] day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

    9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them]. 11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled [them] to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities. 12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

    13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill [me]. 22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. 24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. 25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness. 26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.


    To be accused of madness for believing God's assessment of spiritual reality is normal. It happened to Jesus, too.

    Mark 3:20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. 22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

    It has to be asked why anyone would want to be on the losing side?

    And, why would anyone put forward evil as the more desirable morality?

    Why would they think that when they opposed the Prince of Life as He went about doing good, healing, preaching repentance toward God and forgiveness for sins, it was not obvious to all, that they did not have anyone's wellbeing at heart?

    That they labour under the misapprehension that darkness, sin, death and destruction is more desirable than light and life, only proves what Paul and John said about darkness blinding the minds of those who are perishing - and that they don't 'see' it as 'a lie', or, truly, that they 'love' 'a lie'. Of course, everyone is entitled* to their own opinion. It always surprises me that those who reserve the right to deny God on those terms, are reluctant to grant those who believe in Him the same* freedom.


    Isaiah 5

    20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
    that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

    22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
    23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

    24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust:
    because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.


    Noted as possibly the greatest Hebrew scholar who ever lived, Maimonides (known as Rambam), said in "Guide of the Perplexed" : "Whoever shall find out the true sense of the Book of Genesis ought to take care not to divulge it. This is a maxim that all our sages repeat to us, and above all respecting the work of the six days. If a person should discover the true meaning of it by himself, or by the aid of another, then he ought to be silent, or if he speaks of it he ought to speak of it obscurely, in an enigmatical manner, as I do myself, leaving the rest to be guessed by those who can understand me."

    There exists a veil that stands between the outer allegories created to entertain and pacify the masses, and the wisdom that lies on the other side of that veil.
    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis



    "It is only by the exercise of Reason, that man can discover God."
    ~ Thomas Paine

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Not knowing anything about these "secret societies", I do find it interesting when people jokingly laugh it off with a veiled mocking of any proponent of it. Obviously, it is condescending but I wonder if there is anything else behind it.

    This all brings up an observation I have made over the years in being an observer of human behaviour and it seems interesting to me how different people react when some kind of supposed "conspiracy theory" is brought up.

    I see that with a lot of different subjects.
    Yeah, I tend to be in the "laugh it off" group because it's public manifestion is usually a textbook case of hystria and believing things not well-supported by the evidence. This doesn't mean that there are no real conspiracies just like there might be real miracles. But sorting through all the claims quickly demonstrates that if there are true "conspiracy theories" they are about as rare as true miracles at a Benny Hinn Carnival.

    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    I have read a bit through the years and have noticed the derision that goes on towards people that talk about the Club of Rome, Illuminati, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderburg Group, etc, etc. They mock and joke about proposed conspiracies as if they are actually "in the know" about something. Most people that don't have a clue about something won't do that. However, people that do know about something and want to keep it secret,,, well you get my point.
    Yes, I think I get your point. The folks "talking" about all this stuff are "conspiracy nuts" who don't really know what they are talking about and so open themselves up to mockery. This should not be taken as evidnece that they are wrong ... but what "evidence" then do we have for real conspiracies?

    But again - there are "conspiracies" - people working together to achieve some common goal - all around us all the time. The thing with the conspiracy theories that deserve to be rejected is that they are irrational and paranoid. Great and often supernatural powers are attributed to the "secret men" behind the conspiracy. It all look like paranoid delusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Some take these subjects very seriously and others mock them derisively. I'm not saying secret societies don't exist and aren't serious. But, I'm not going to spend my life trying to uncover them. I guess that is what Texe Marrs did or is doing ( I don't even know if he is dead or alive).
    Case in point: Texe Marss is either delusionally paranoid or a lying huckster making money off gullble Christians. Either way, his ravings should be exposed and rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    From what I have learned about history and conspiracies, there are two views. The "Accidental View of History" and the "Conspiratorial View of History". The Accidental View of course is always accidental until proven fact. Like Hitlers conspiracy to invade Poland and then the reality of it. Whether the burning of the Reichstag was conspiratorial, it has never really been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Anyway, I would think if one is part of a "secret society", one would want to keep it secret. Right? That is why I find joking or mocking an individual about secret societies could also be a technique in continuing to achieve their goal of secrecy. If I wanted to keep something secret, I would certainly laugh it off as "crazy".

    All the best,
    Rick
    Actually, that's the joke of it all. The conspiracy theorists claim that the "secret society" has near total control over the news media. So I ask "How then did you find out about all their wicked schemes? Doh!

    Such incoherent theories deserve to be rejected. Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Christian View Post
    Noted as possibly the greatest Hebrew scholar who ever lived, Maimonides (known as Rambam), said in "Guide of the Perplexed" : "Whoever shall find out the true sense of the Book of Genesis ought to take care not to divulge it. This is a maxim that all our sages repeat to us, and above all respecting the work of the six days. If a person should discover the true meaning of it by himself, or by the aid of another, then he ought to be silent, or if he speaks of it he ought to speak of it obscurely, in an enigmatical manner, as I do myself, leaving the rest to be guessed by those who can understand me."

    There exists a veil that stands between the outer allegories created to entertain and pacify the masses, and the wisdom that lies on the other side of that veil.
    I really wish he had just spoken plainly at least once about how he understood Genesis 1.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi Rick and all,

    Interesting thread...



    Do you remember there is an element of 'mocking' in the name Ishmael, just as there is contrasting 'laughter' in Isaac?
    Hi Charisma,

    Great points to further the discussion.

    "And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham mocking." Gen 21:9

    "Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine." Acts 2:13


    Some verses which bring light on the matter of the supposed secrecy of the powers of darkness, come from Paul's analysis:

    Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    Contrasting the Lord doing things openly and the powers of darkness using subterfuge, secrecy and darkness to veil their true motives.

    "In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me." Mat 26:55

    No, the Pharisees could not arrest Jesus openly. They used others to arrest Him under cover of night. Of course the charges against Him were all trumped up lies. But, they are very good examples of how the powers of darkness "move" people.


    To be accused of madness for believing God's assessment of spiritual reality is normal. It happened to Jesus, too.
    It is a common ploy to kill the messenger hoping that the message may die, too.

    Mark 3:20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. 22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

    It has to be asked why anyone would want to be on the losing side?
    Deception!

    It has to be asked why would the highest created being try to take God's place? With all that he had, why would he want all of the honor, praise and worship that rightfully belongs only to God? Well, we can see him duplicate his nature in men (conforming men to his image). The obvious ones being Lenin, Marx, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Mugabe, Chavez, Ghaddafi, Ho Chi Minh, North Korean leaders, etc, etc. Satan wants his image in men instead of the image of Christ. Do you think Satan actually has talked himself into ultimate reconciliation, too? Jesus said, "He is a liar and the father of lies", so can he even escape from his own deception to consider truth for even a split second? If he does believe in ultimate reconciliation, why is he still fighting so hard against the Prince of Peace and His children?

    And, why would anyone put forward evil as the more desirable morality?
    Many put forward evil as the more desirable morality because they do not believe they will be accountable to anyone and therefore their end justifies their means. Their end is control and power and achieving their ideology. I would be hard-pressed to believe that they think they will be held accountable someday to anyone.

    Why would they think that when they opposed the Prince of Life as He went about doing good, healing, preaching repentance toward God and forgiveness for sins, it was not obvious to all, that they did not have anyone's well being at heart?

    That they labour under the misapprehension that darkness, sin, death and destruction is more desirable than light and life, only proves what Paul and John said about darkness blinding the minds of those who are perishing - and that they don't 'see' it as 'a lie', or, truly, that they 'love' 'a lie'. Of course, everyone is entitled* to their own opinion. It always surprises me that those who reserve the right to deny God on those terms, are reluctant to grant those who believe in Him the same* freedom.
    Well, amen to that!!


    Isaiah 5

    20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

    22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
    23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

    24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    "Woe" sounds real bad...

    "It is appointed unto men once to die, and then all is forgiven and everyone is happy as if nothing of any significance, (either good or evil) ever took place on planet earth.

    It makes you wonder.

    Great post,
    Rick

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I really wish he had just spoken plainly at least once about how he understood Genesis 1.

    Ditto. But of course that would have violated any trust that had been granted him, if he received part or most of his 'true meaning of Genesis' from others. Rambam is one of the figure-heads that Freemasons learn of as part of their "education", so one can see a similar tie in regards to the secrecy issue. Of course, many similar themes show-up in the Zohar, also.
    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis



    "It is only by the exercise of Reason, that man can discover God."
    ~ Thomas Paine

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi Rick and all,

    Interesting thread...
    Good morning Charisma,

    I'm glad you think this thread is interesting. Your input is too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Do you remember there is an element of 'mocking' in the name Ishmael, just as there is contrasting 'laughter' in Isaac?
    How so? Ishmael means "God heard" - where is the "mocking" in that?
    Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

    Now the KJV does say that Ishmael "mocked" but the actual word written is tzachaq - the root of his brothers name Yitzach (Isaac) which means to laugh or to play:
    Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking [lit. laughing]. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

    There is nothing in the context that suggests Ishmael was "mocking." That's just a Rabbinic tradition that got inserted into the translation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    To be accused of madness for believing God's assessment of spiritual reality is normal. It happened to Jesus, too.
    I don't see how that relates to this discussion. We are talking about some theories people made up concerning secret societies trying to rule the world. Is there any reason we should think of those conspiracy theories as "God's assessment of spiritual reality?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Mark 3:20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. 22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

    It has to be asked why anyone would want to be on the losing side?
    That's an excellent question! Indeed, it would be madness, would it not, to know the truth and choose to be on the losing side? That's my primary argument against hell. Even sinful humans know it is wrong to punish delusional people as if they were responsible for their crimes. Anyone who "chooses" eternal conscious torment in hell is obviously delusional. Nuts. Wacko. In need of Divine Care, not punishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    And, why would anyone put forward evil as the more desirable morality?
    Who is doing that? Other than a small minority of sick wackos, most folks pushing for alternative forms of morality seem to be pushing for things that are objectively good. For example, consider women's rights. Back in the day when Christianity was the dominant moral force in America, women were not free to vote or work in most male dominated careers like doctores, lawyers, and all that. This was based on Christian morality which beleived that women should be subject to men. And slavery was legal and defended from Scripture in the Bible belt. Obviously, that is a perverse and false morality. Why would anyone believe such things for a minute, let alone for 2000 years?

    There is a lot of very bad "morality" that has been taught under the rubric of "Christianity." Racism. Slavery. Sexism. Anti-Semitism. Why did people see that as "desireable" when now we see it as so very wicked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Why would they think that when they opposed the Prince of Life as He went about doing good, healing, preaching repentance toward God and forgiveness for sins, it was not obvious to all, that they did not have anyone's wellbeing at heart?
    Now that's a different question. On the one had, Scripture shows that Christ deliberately provoked the Jews to kill him. And he said that he himself had blinded their eyes so that they would not be able to see even if they wanted to. So this touches on a deep mystery of which I don't think anyone could ever give a satisfying explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    That they labour under the misapprehension that darkness, sin, death and destruction is more desirable than light and life, only proves what Paul and John said about darkness blinding the minds of those who are perishing - and that they don't 'see' it as 'a lie', or, truly, that they 'love' 'a lie'. Of course, everyone is entitled* to their own opinion. It always surprises me that those who reserve the right to deny God on those terms, are reluctant to grant those who believe in Him the same* freedom.

    Isaiah 5

    20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
    that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

    22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
    23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

    24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    Do you personally know anyone who fits such a description?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    15,146
    Quote Originally Posted by RC Christian View Post
    Ditto. But of course that would have violated any trust that had been granted him, if he received part or most of his 'true meaning of Genesis' from others. Rambam is one of the figure-heads that Freemasons learn of as part of their "education", so one can see a similar tie in regards to the secrecy issue. Of course, many similar themes show-up in the Zohar, also.
    Well, given the historical propensity of those in power to shout "Off with his head!" at anyone who dared use their head, I don't blame them for keeping their thoughts secret. Not of a minute - they were fully justified by the threat of death and dismemberment (and not necessarily in that order!).

    But now we are becoming free from the nightmare of history. We should encourage everyone to raise their voice in shouts of exhultation to proclaim the truth of their own hearts and minds. It is time we who understand the reality of universal love rise up and sing like birds!
    Song of Solomon 2
    10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; 12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    258
    "Contrasting the Lord doing things openly and the powers of darkness using subterfuge, secrecy and darkness to veil their true motives."


    Hi Heb13-13,

    In regards to your quote above (sorry, I haven't learned how to do the insert-quote within a reply, yet), my best response to you would be what Rosicrucians and Freemasons each state throughout their discourses (assuming that some of the comments by you and Charisma are directed partially towards them...if not...my bad, please disregard, with apologies on my part) :

    Matthew 13:10-13 "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

    References to "eyes" and "ears", "hearing" and "seeing" are symbolic and allegorical, in nature, in esoteric and arcane writings and artwork. Hence, the "All-Seeing Eye". Thought Facterd might find that interesting.
    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis



    "It is only by the exercise of Reason, that man can discover God."
    ~ Thomas Paine

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