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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough
    The Bible, which you say is "the Word of God", uses the male pronoun to refer to God from beginning to end.




    That is not true! In English the pronoun is inserted by the translators. You even explain the Spirit being feminine in word structure! And GOD according to Jesus is Spirit! So eventhough in prayer Jesus addressed GOD as "the Father" that does not negate the fact that the Spirit/GOD is referenced as a female/mothering entity in many places in the Bible.
    Hi Mystykal

    I just want to address the point you made about spirit/god being referenced as a female/mothering entity in many places in the Bible. From the standpoint of being a female and a mother, and knowing first hand the perspective of a woman and how a mother thinks, I can tell you that the Biblegod it totally male. A male can never know what it is like to think like a mother.

    Men wrote the Bible and men created the Biblegod, they projected onto this god male qualities. There is nowhere in the Bible where god acts in a manner that a mother would act in, what you see over and over again is the perspective of how a father and husband perceives his wife/women and children. The desires of men to find women to bear them children to carry on their name are expressed over and over again, but never the true desires of women. When women are presented in Scripture it is always from the male viewpoint, the way men think women perceive things. If the Bible were written by women, you would see how differently the picture which is presented would be.

    I just wrote an article titled Women: Disrespected and Dishonored in the Bible which you might find enlightening.


    Take care
    Rose
    Last edited by Rose; 12-08-2013 at 06:18 PM.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Yep, that's the problem. The Bible is nothing but a pile of words with no clear connection to reality so there is no way to for anyone to determine what it actually means. . Then they talk in circles to get around what they just said. Its all confusion of words based on false presuppositions.
    Strange to me, how someone appreciates our Numbers to the base ten (like "perfect generation") and Triple Acrostic 22, and 39+27 combo, AND YET doesn't appreciate Luke furnishing a square peg for the round hole in generation thirteen. Hmm?

    Strong's Number H7018 matches the Hebrew קֵינָן (Qeynan ), which occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi Mystykal

    I just want to address the point you made about spirit/god being referenced as a female/mothering entity in many places in the Bible. From the standpoint of being a female and a mother, and knowing first hand the perspective of a woman and how a mother thinks, I can tell you that the Biblegod it totally male. A male can never know what it is like to think like a mother.

    Men wrote the Bible and men created the Biblegod, they projected onto this god male qualities. There is nowhere in the Bible where god acts in a manner that a mother would act in, what you see over and over again is the perspective of how a father and husband perceives his wife/women and children. The desires of men to find women to bear them children to carry on their name are expressed over and over again, but never the true desires of women. When women are presented in Scripture it is always from the male viewpoint, the way men think women perceive things. If the Bible were written by women, you would see how differently the picture which is presented would be.

    I just wrote an article titled Women: Disrespected and Dishonored in the Bible which you might find enlightening.


    Take care
    Rose
    Hi Rose:
    So just as a side note what do you make of Jesus comment in Matthew 23:37 when He makes a reference to GOD/Himself as a mother hen... "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." So you just ignore that comment?


    Namaste.

    Mystykal
    Mystykal

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    Nobody definitively understands what the Bible says. If Christians all understood the true meaning of the Bible, then they would be united as whole. But we don't see that. We see 10,000 different interpretations and each one claiming theirs is the only true one. Every Christian on this forum asserts their own beliefs as the true understanding. And the fact that anyone can make the Bible say what they want says it all.

    And God does NOT have mercy for the ignorant. All will be judged according to the Bible. Event the ignorant of his word.

    2 Thess 1:5-8

    5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:



    Acts 17:30-31 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

    That is neither merciful or just. The Bible is clear. Ignorance is no excuse.
    L67:

    You are so quick to write off the Bible as some STUPID book... yet it is possible for such a book to last for this long! It must be worth something! So I just want to make a comment about the REASON there are no more ignorant people at the END OF TIME -


    Acts 17:30-31 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
    The verse says that the reason there are no ignorant ones at the end of time is because of the raising of the dead in this case Jesus - the SPIRIT will make known to all the TRUTH! GOD is not willing that any perish (ll Peter 3:9). So despite your insistance that the Bible is all crap all people will be given ample evidence to let them make an informed decision for or against the TRUTH! GOD is able to do all things according to the WORD! The model stands without impeachment!



    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Mystykal

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hi Rose:
    So just as a side note what do you make of Jesus comment in Matthew 23:37 when He makes a reference to GOD/Himself as a mother hen... "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." So you just ignore that comment?


    Namaste.

    Mystykal
    ------- Hi Rose:
    I took the liberty to post your article here as I thought it deserved to be read by more people.
    You might find it odd that I agree with most of the ideas you present... However I wish you had given more direct examples to each of your points from the Bible. I think the issue of equality of the sexes is an interesting one. I don't think most people give it much thought... and if they do they feel helpless to do anything about it.

    I do question our standard today of morality and the standard which is used in the Bible v/s the morality of the people who lived in those days. I am not sure that our standard of morality today is good enough! It might be better than in the recent or distant past but that is still not a good excuse as to why we have not made the changes today that would give women more opportunities and create an equal playing field with men of the same qualities and pay and all those things which should have been the norm from day one. I just don't think that the GOD model even in the Bible is ACTUALLY a blueprint from GOD! I think that the writers of the BIBLE incased the truth within the idea being laid down and then covered it with obvious human traits and inequalities. To blame GOD for that is well unfair! Even when it appears to be "GOD-ordained." I think there are many times when we attribute things to GOD which are in fact man-made. I do hold a little different view of what inspiration is than the main-stream Christians out there, But there are many good people who hold to my viewpoint as well. It is unfair to blame GOD for the bias which is man-made and does not reflect a loving working relationship. "GOD is Love." Anything other than a GOD working in love is an illusion created by the Evil One.

    Namaste,

    Mystykal




    Women: Disrespected and Dishonored in the Bible December 7th, 2013 | Author: Rose

    As a woman I am deeply offended and insulted by the way the Bible disrespects women. From the extreme bias that allows women and girls to be sold as sex slaves, to denying women equal human rights with men, the Bible is filled with offensive and disgusting behavior aimed at women. When one stops and thinks about it, does it not seem extremely suspicious that the doctrines of the Christian faith are all biased in favor of men … especially in regards to the books of the Bible which were written solely by men, and the male god the Bible portrays? Passage after passage, book after book, women are subjected to all manner of disrespect and dishonor at hands of men, all directed by the god portrayed within its pages.



    I think what lies at the heart of the patriarchal mindset which stretches back through history, is a basic disrespect of women. As long as men feel it is their right to control women and use them for their own needs and desires, a woman’s worth will be set by men and consequently undervalued. The Bible is not alone in its ill treatment and disrespect of women; the Quran shares the stage equally, but I’ll stick to the Bible for now since I am much more familiar with its biased ways. One reason that many women fail to recognize just how much offensive language is present in the Bible is because they’ve been taught otherwise by the church. Women’s needs are never addressed in the Bible, only the needs of men to acquire wives to bear them children and carry on their name.



    Human rights are a fundamental aspect of respect, neither of which is afforded women in biblical doctrines. You cannot say on one hand that women are given a place of honor in the Christian faith, while on the other hand deny them equality with men and keep them in subjugation. As a fully aware person I know what it feels like to be dishonored and disrespected, and that is exactly how a good portion of the Bible treats women. It makes me angry that the Bible teaches men to think that it is their place to rule over women and gives them the authority to make up doctrines that keep women from reaching their full potential. The right of every human being, male or female is to have control over their own bodies and their own destiny. Just because a person is born male does not give them privileges that are denied females, as the Bible decrees. Just because primitive men constructed a deity that they labeled as male and endowed him with attributes and powers, which are supposedly given to men to rule over women, does not make it so!



    Respect and honor should be given to all people, and any doctrine that teaches otherwise should be labeled as false. It is your right to discard that which goes against what you know to be just, even if others say it is from god, because no true god would act in ways which are biased and immoral. Next time you pick up your Bible to read it, take notice of the manner in which women are treated compared to men and how nowhere within its pages are the atrocities and inequalities committed against women ever condemned … even by Jesus!
    Last edited by Mystykal; 12-09-2013 at 05:52 AM.
    Mystykal

  6. #26
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    Confounded Language: Gen 11:7, and THE TENT..

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...3066#post43066
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hi Rose:
    So just as a side note what do you make of Jesus comment in Matthew 23:37 when He makes a reference to GOD/Himself as a mother hen... "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." So you just ignore that comment?


    Namaste.

    Mystykal
    Hi Mystykal

    Actually I'm glad you brought up that particular verse, because I thought about using it as an example of the fact that Scripture is so male-based and void of the female voice that it was needful for Jesus to use "a hen with her chicks" to express the idea of motherly compassion. Jesus is saying he longs to gather the children of Israel in the same "manner" as a hen gathers her chicks, which is quite different from saying he is the mother hen.

    Once again, there is nothing feminine or motherly about the testosterone driven god of the Bible ... he is male through and through. The god of the Old Testament that Jesus speaks of is a father, a husband and a son ... period!

    Take care
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    ------- Hi Rose:
    I took the liberty to post your article here as I thought it deserved to be read by more people.
    You might find it odd that I agree with most of the ideas you present... However I wish you had given more direct examples to each of your points from the Bible. I think the issue of equality of the sexes is an interesting one. I don't think most people give it much thought... and if they do they feel helpless to do anything about it.
    Hi Mystykal,

    Thank you for your comments on my article ... I did think about citing chapter and verse, but because there are so many I thought I would leave it up to the reader to search it out. Also, the article from the Examiner that I quoted at the bottom of my article contains many examples, which I thought were sufficient, but maybe I will go back and edit in some specific references.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    I do question our standard today of morality and the standard which is used in the Bible v/s the morality of the people who lived in those days. I am not sure that our standard of morality today is good enough! It might be better than in the recent or distant past but that is still not a good excuse as to why we have not made the changes today that would give women more opportunities and create an equal playing field with men of the same qualities and pay and all those things which should have been the norm from day one. I just don't think that the GOD model even in the Bible is ACTUALLY a blueprint from GOD! I think that the writers of the BIBLE incased the truth within the idea being laid down and then covered it with obvious human traits and inequalities. To blame GOD for that is well unfair! Even when it appears to be "GOD-ordained." I think there are many times when we attribute things to GOD which are in fact man-made. I do hold a little different view of what inspiration is than the main-stream Christians out there, But there are many good people who hold to my viewpoint as well. It is unfair to blame GOD for the bias which is man-made and does not reflect a loving working relationship. "GOD is Love." Anything other than a GOD working in love is an illusion created by the Evil One.

    Namaste,

    Mystykal


    Where may I ask do you get the idea that "God is Love", if not from the Bible? You say that it is unfair to blame god for the male bias of the Bible, yet you seem perfectly willing to accept what the Bible says about god's love. How do you know anything at all about the nature of god if you don't get if from the Bible? If the Bible portrays god as a father and a husband, does that not mean his love is like that of a father to his children or a husband to his wife? Read 1 Peter chapter 3, which tells a woman she should obey her husband and call him Lord in the same manner as Christians are to obey god and call him Lord. The idea of god's love being equated with a fathers love, and a husbands love is saturated throughout Scripture, because it was men who authored the Bible.

    If you look around at all the religions of the world you will see that each group gets their concept of who god is from their sacred texts. Muslims get their idea of god from the Ouran, Hindu's get their ideas about all their gods from their sacred texts, just like Christians get their ideas about god from the Bible.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    L67:

    You are so quick to write off the Bible as some STUPID book... yet it is possible for such a book to last for this long! It must be worth something! So I just want to make a comment about the REASON there are no more ignorant people at the END OF TIME -

    Mystykal,

    I have never said the Bible is some stupid book. There is some TRUTH in the Bible. But the we know for a fact, that the majority of claims in the Bible are false. There was no Adam and Eve, global flood, Exodus, Tower of Babel, and most importantly Jesus didn't come back in the first century like he said he would. An omniscient god would NOT have a book filled with falsehood representing his word. The Bible is full of falsehood. Think about this. This God can create everything we see around us, but it can't even convey how everything was created accurately in his own word. How silly is that? Don't you think the biblegod could have saved a lot of headache by telling us the way things really came to be? But the Bible's view of the world has human ideas all over it. There is nothing miraculous about the Bible's claims compared to other ancient text. I don't find your claims of people being raised from the dead convincing either. A few anomalies is nothing miraculous going on. Look at how many people die at the hands of psychopaths everyday. Why are none of them prevented from suffering horrible deaths? Why don't any of them ever return to life? People who innocently die at the hand of others deserve to return more than anyone else. When you consider how many people suffer death everyday a few anomalies is not the work of any god.

    You said the Bible must be worth something because it has lasted so long. YES! The Bible represents money and power. The church has always used the Bible as a means to control the population. They have made billions scaring the living crap out of people. I'm sorry, but longevity means nothing when so much money changes hands.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    The verse says that the reason there are no ignorant ones at the end of time is because of the raising of the dead in this case Jesus - the SPIRIT will make known to all the TRUTH! GOD is not willing that any perish (ll Peter 3:9). So despite your insistance that the Bible is all crap all people will be given ample evidence to let them make an informed decision for or against the TRUTH! GOD is able to do all things according to the WORD! The model stands without impeachment!

    I don't insist the Bible is ALL crap. The Bible convicts itself of being mostly crap. I see no reason to think the claims in the Bible are miraculous. Why should I when so much is easily proven false?

    You say people will be given ample evidence to make an informed decision for or against the truth. Where is this ample evidence? I can't think of one person who wouldn't want eternal life if it was proven to actually be true. We haven't had any evidence since the Bible was written and I see no indication of that changing anytime soon. There isn't even evidence for the less complicated claims of the Bible.

    You're free to believe however you want, but I haven't seen you present anything that would convince any rational skeptic. If you do have the smoking gun then by all means present it.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    Mystykal,

    I have never said the Bible is some stupid book. There is some TRUTH in the Bible. But the we know for a fact, that the majority of claims in the Bible are false. There was no Adam and Eve, global flood, Exodus, Tower of Babel, and most importantly Jesus didn't come back in the first century like he said he would. An omniscient god would NOT have a book filled with falsehood representing his word. The Bible is full of falsehood. Think about this. This God can create everything we see around us, but it can't even convey how everything was created accurately in his own word. How silly is that? Don't you think the biblegod could have saved a lot of headache by telling us the way things really came to be? But the Bible's view of the world has human ideas all over it. There is nothing miraculous about the Bible's claims compared to other ancient text. I don't find your claims of people being raised from the dead convincing either. A few anomalies is nothing miraculous going on. Look at how many people die at the hands of psychopaths everyday. Why are none of them prevented from suffering horrible deaths? Why don't any of them ever return to life? People who innocently die at the hand of others deserve to return more than anyone else. When you consider how many people suffer death everyday a few anomalies is not the work of any god.

    You said the Bible must be worth something because it has lasted so long. YES! The Bible represents money and power. The church has always used the Bible as a means to control the population. They have made billions scaring the living crap out of people. I'm sorry, but longevity means nothing when so much money changes hands.





    I don't insist the Bible is ALL crap. The Bible convicts itself of being mostly crap. I see no reason to think the claims in the Bible are miraculous. Why should I when so much is easily proven false?

    You say people will be given ample evidence to make an informed decision for or against the truth. Where is this ample evidence? I can't think of one person who wouldn't want eternal life if it was proven to actually be true. We haven't had any evidence since the Bible was written and I see no indication of that changing anytime soon. There isn't even evidence for the less complicated claims of the Bible.

    You're free to believe however you want, but I haven't seen you present anything that would convince any rational skeptic. If you do have the smoking gun then by all means present it.
    Hi L67:
    Thanks for responding. I use the word stupid because you said
    "...we know for a fact, that the majority of claims in the Bible are false.
    So as I see it if the claims are FALSE or mostly so, then you are calling the Bible STUPID! So maybe you like to dance around the topic but I just hit it head on! I think you are more interested in arguing than in finding any kind of reason to the problems which the Bible presents. The issue of faith is at the core of why ANY real skeptic will NEVER accept the Bible or anything spiritual as true! The reason being that FAITH is an ingredient which to a skeptic is non-exxistent as defined in the Bible. the word faith is used many ways... This causes alot of speculation as to what is meant by the word faith.

    The other thing is that your so called "A few anomalies" is like a total denial of the facts. It is not up to you to know who lives and who dies! To say god does not exist and if god does then god does not know what to do is a joke of the most illogical kind! If GOD does exist then GOD does know what is going on an has a plan! Even when it looks like it makes no sense!

    Ok. I am not really trying to convince anyone of the truth - I just look at the model presented and try and see through all the haze and find the real truth behind the lies!


    Namaste,

    Mystykal

    Mystykal

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