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Thread: The God Concept

  1. #21
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    This thread "God Concept" is synonymous with my thread "What is God?" in which several people including myself have actually contributed opinions. There is also another related thread on "you are gods?" Have a look:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2147

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141

    BTW, I am follower of Erich von Daniken and you should know what my idea of God is. Isn't it possible that one day humans could progressed to such a technological advanced stage as to be able to create suns and planets and trees and animals just like god? Having such a concept of God as an ET which I understand may be absurd to many people but it certainly answers many questions and problems we find in the Bible.

    Was God an alien? Possibly. Please see:

    http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~marshall/aliengod.htm

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread309860/pg1



    May God give His Wisdom to all.
    Last edited by CWH; 11-08-2011 at 11:32 PM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    This thread "God Concept" is synonymous with my thread "What is God?" in which several people including myself have actually contributed opinions. There is also another related thread on "you are gods?" Have a look:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2147

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141

    BTW, I am follower of Erich von Daniken and you should know what my idea of God is. Isn't it possible that one day humans could progressed to such a technological advanced stage as to be able to create suns and planets and trees and animals just like god? Having such a concept of God as an ET which I understand may be absurd to many people but it certainly answers many questions and problems we find in the Bible.

    Was God an alien? Possibly. Please see:

    http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~marshall/aliengod.htm

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread309860/pg1



    May God give His Wisdom to all.
    Hey there Cheow Wee,

    Thanks for posting those links to the thread you had started. I forgot about it ... probably because it was pretty short. I'm glad to be back on the topic again.

    But what's this idea about God being an alien? God is usually defined as the Creator, whereas aliens are just creatures like us. Maybe more advanced, and maybe they were us travelling back from the distant future when we created time travel. But none of that has anything to do with the concept of G.O.D. as it has been understood in Christianity and similar religions. I find the concept that God is an alien to be kinda ... well ... kinda non-explanatory. I looked at that crash link, and it doesn't say that the aliens were really God, but that they were mistaken as gods.

    I just can't make sense of you Cheow Wee. It's hard to imagine that you actually believe what you write. The ideas are so far removed from the things that seem so obvious to me. But that's ok. I'll try to open my mind and maybe I'll start to understand what you are getting at.

    Thanks for having patience with me during my "cranky" time when I called you names and stuff. I was taking myself way to seriously, I do believe. And I think I was taking you too seriously too!

    All the best, my friend,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #23
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    I am not cranky RAM. I am as sober and as intelligent as anyone of you here. As I said before, I like to make my own opinions in regards to bible scriptures and issues that I find doubtful. Of course, I wouldn't dare to say my opinions are absolutely right but it certainly make sense to me of some doubts in the Bible. I don't readily follow everything the pastors said or follow mainstream Christian beliefs. Although, I do believe to some degree that God is a super alien but I couldn't answer one basic question perhaps due to my human imperfect knowledge, "How was God formed or created in the first place"? I know that people will say God is Spirit and thus invisible. But my logic is, can invisible things be made visible? Yes, and why not? Water can be made invisible into water vapor, or can be made into solid ice. Hydrogen gas can be made into liquid or solid hydrogen. Jesus which is God and the angels can also turn from spiritual beings into physical beings as stated in the Bible. Thus what is spiritual can also be made physical and vice versa.

    Ever imagine how humans will progress thousands of years from now? Will humans one day be able to create suns and planets, vegetations and animals and habitable worlds? Certainly, not too fantastic to imagine.

    God Blessings to all.
    Last edited by CWH; 11-09-2011 at 12:32 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Thanks for having patience with me during my "cranky" time when I called you names and stuff. I was taking myself way to seriously, I do believe. And I think I was taking you too seriously too!
    I am not cranky RAM. I am as sober as anyone of you here.
    Hey there my friend,

    I didn't say you were cranky! I said I used to be cranky! And I was thanking you for not getting too mad at me in my "cranky" days.

    So let me say it again:



    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    As I said before, I like to make my own opinions in regards to bible scriptures and issues that I find doubtful. Of course, I wouldn't dare to say my opinions are absolutely right but it certainly make sense to me of some doubts in the Bible. I don't readily follow everything the pastors said or follow mainstream Christian beliefs. Although, I do believe to some degree that God is a super alien but I couldn't answer one basic question perhaps due to my human imperfect knowledge, "How was God formed or created in the first place"? I know that people will say God is Spirit and thus invisible. But my logic is, can invisible things be made visible? Yes, and why not? Water can be made invisible into water vapor, or can be made into solid ice. Hydrogen gas can be made into liquid or solid hydrogen. Jesus which is God and the angels can also turn from spiritual beings into physical beings as stated in the Bible. Thus what is spiritual can also be made physical and vice versa.
    I don't follow your logic. The concept of God is that God is creator. Space aliens are just creatures like us. They might seem like gods to us if they are super advanced technologically, but what does that have to do with the fact that they are not gods at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Ever imagine how humans will progress thousands of years from now? Will humans one day be able to create suns and planets, vegetations and animals and habitable worlds? Certainly, not too fantastic to imagine.
    Yes, that's why I brought up the "possibility" that the "space-aliens" were just time travelers from our own future. But that still doesn't make them "God."

    The basic idea of God is the "Being" that created the world and/or is the "ground of being." Space aliens are nothing different than dogs or cats or humans except they might be more advanced. I don't see any connection with the "God concept" at all. But if you do, that's cool. I hope you share more of your ideas with us.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there my friend,

    I didn't say you were cranky! I said I used to be cranky! And I was thanking you for not getting too mad at me in my "cranky" days.

    So let me say it again:

    Please don't take it too hard, I am not mad with anyone who calls me names and I never take those negative comments at heart. I do love everyone here as brothers and sisters in Christ.

    I understand that you are not saying that I am cranky. My point is that others may tend to see me or anyone as cranky with their revelation that God is an alien. Anyway, I am not the only one here who have such a view.


    I don't follow your logic. The concept of God is that God is creator. Space aliens are just creatures like us. They might seem like gods to us if they are super advanced technologically, but what does that have to do with the fact that they are not gods at all?

    Yes, that's why I brought up the "possibility" that the "space-aliens" were just time travelers from our own future. But that still doesn't make them "God."
    I have put up an idea in this forum that if we are able technologically to create habitable worlds just like the Creator God, how would we like it to be? Just like in every manufactured product, we will likely to start creating with small and simple things first gradually progressed to more complex things. We would like the habitable world to be beautiful, free from diseases, death, sin, crime, suffering, war, violence etc, everything that is evil and negative. It will of course take time to achieve this paradise stage from a primitive start-up world. I am not very sure if it is prudent, appropriate or technologically possible to straight away create a paradise world? I think not. Do we straight away put toddlers into university education and expect them to be able to cope? Do we not teach our children since young to behave properly so that they can developed as good responsible adults and to make this world a better place?

    I do believe that as human progress technologically and scientifically, there will come a time thousands of years later in which nothing is impossible for human beings to achieve. Sounds familiar right?..... "Is anything impossible for God"?

    The basic idea of God is the "Being" that created the world and/or is the "ground of being." Space aliens are nothing different than dogs or cats or humans except they might be more advanced. I don't see any connection with the "God concept" at all. But if you do, that's cool. I hope you share more of your ideas with us.
    As for God, I can't say for sure if it is a Being but I can only say it is a Cosmic Energy capable of Creation and Intelligence. I see space aliens as angels assisting this Cosmic Energy.

    May God grant us Mercy and Grace. Amen.
    Last edited by CWH; 11-09-2011 at 02:15 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    Wonderful posts and topic! I agree Richard...it's great to see this from a non-biased perspective.
    The study of typology in the bible does the same thing. Wherever you find the doctrines of hell, inferiority of women etc. you'll also find a very shaky foundation in the understanding of typology.
    For example, the tabernacle/temple is feminine. The High Priest "enters" her once a year, on the day of Atonement.
    The reason women were not allowed in, was not because they were inferior, but because it symbolizes the Consummation, the ultimate act of Love. To have a woman enter would be against the Law, because it would violate a Law of nature and would produce no Life.
    All of creation (including the laws of nature) are given as a valid witness to the character and purposes of God.
    The soul in scripture is represented also by the woman...the spirit, the masculine. The heart/spirit/High Priest (masculine) is to be "circumcised" before "he" can "enter" and consummate with the virgin (subconcious mind) or Holy of Holies. (etc) Both man and woman have a masculine heart, feminine soul.
    Unfortunately, we have projected our moral prejudices on all of this throughout the centuries, without understanding the Spirit in which it was written.
    Hi Kathryn,
    Great post. Consumation is a very big part of both Bible and Qabalah and Baptism of fire, (which I know is one of your favorite subjects.)

    Psalm 24
    Ps 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
    Ps 24:2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
    Ps 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
    Ps 24:4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
    Ps 24:5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
    Ps 24:6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
    Ps 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
    Ps 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
    Ps 24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
    Ps 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

    On posts 5 and 6 the chart shows on the left symbols for Chakras.
    Wouldn't these be the doors and Gates that are referred to?

    The entire bible is filled with references to us being vessels of clay and becoming virgin brides, being in Christ and he in us etc. We are the Temple and the tabernacle. He the glory and the blessing mentioned above.
    As you said Marriage is a physical sign of Union with God.
    Union brings new generations and new birth.

    I think one way of looking at God is Power that hovers waiting for us to open to Him.

    Another thing that occurs to me. You mentioned the subconscious as being the heart.
    It is asked a lot,.."Why does God use all this symbology and Allegory and Parables, why not come right out and say it?"

    Because symbols are the language of our subconscious mind. And that is the part of us that needs to be addressed. We are learning the language of God because it is the language of our hearts. We have to know in our hearts in order to change.

    Just some thoughts,
    Bob

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    To whom is this question addressed? I don't quite follow it.

    My question was addressed to anyone that has an opinion on this matter. Let me refer to the verse that I was thinking of:


    1 Cor.14:23-24
    23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
    24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

    Could we idenify that this person that is 'unlearned or ignorant' is that toward the the Torah and maybe even the Qabbalah. Since it seems to imply that when speaking in tongues of all the church that the unlearned wouldn't understand. Just why wouldn't they understand if it something they could learn?
    Beck

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    BTW, I am follower of Erich von Daniken and you should know what my idea of God is. Isn't it possible that one day humans could progressed to such a technological advanced stage as to be able to create suns and planets and trees and animals just like god?

    Was God an alien? Possibly. Please see:

    May God give His Wisdom to all.
    Hi Cheow

    I can understand why God could be compared to an alien simply because none of us have ever seen an alien, just as no man has seen God. We also seem to assume that aliens have a greater degree of intellect than the inhabitants of earth, so we grasp at straws to make a comparison. Perhaps this is one reason we have the Bible, to simply gain some insight into His Character, not to mention His Awesome Power & Authority.

    So, here is God manifest in Christ, we have read His story, the merciful, compassionate one who came to lay down His life for the sinner. We also read of another, more distant OT God manifesting a character quite different than that of the suffering Christ. The OT God displayed the character of a law enforcement official. To put it in Yoda's terms... "Not so nice is He".

    The God of the OT is not a weakling but an all powerful ruler over His creation, having mercy on whom He will have mercy, and executing judgement on whom He will. By any human standard, this seems unfair. But who's to argue with Him, after all, isn't that what being God is all about?

    As we read of the NT Jesus, there is a virtue in Him that goes beyond mercy & compassion. We also view a very robust man, able to rule over his own fleshly humanity and passions, restraining this Awesome Power & Authority, submitting to another Entity of the Deity, not like most of us who easily succumb to the least bit of temptation, unable to resist.

    If I could elect God, I would want to hear His explanation on things. Ask to review His plans for governing. Raise questions such as how to dispose of wicked behavior in men without disposing of the men? (this is kinda important to me since I have behaved a little wickedly in times past). Actually, if I could just get a shot at being God, I could probably fix this whole mess. I will need a little practice and a brush up on my IQ score to ensure that I get it right the first time. But wait, I am a god, so to speak, I kinda do what I want and sometimes do what I don't want, either way I do act like one (sometimes). Just ask my wife, or any man's wife for that matter. The only problem with my stint as god, it will be short lived and hopefully have caused minimal damage, and for that... I thank the True God. Compared to me, He has to be better!

    My long drawn out 2 cents.

    Blessings to you Cheow. I respect your sincere pursuit of Truth.

    John

  9. #29
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    As a person who had been a lifelong Christian and an apologist even, the question of what is God is not one I gave much thought to. My answer would involve scriptural quotations that actually did little to accurately describe the entity that I believed to be worthy of worship, honor, and praise. Not having an answer proved problamatic when confronted with the oxymoronic 'logic' of an omnimax deity, the existence of evil, as well as the reason for the expansive universe if it's creator was focused on one tiny planet in one solar system in the midst of one of billions of galaxies.

    So recently in my mind I have been going over scenarios as it pertains to what "God" COULD logically be if in fact there is a god at all. At this point, all my ideas are somewhat pantheistic in that the universe is a "living" entity that we are a part of and it has an emergent quality much like the "self" in humans that could be described as God. In other words, God in this scenario is the self/will/consciousness of the universe that was born/emerged at or around the time of the "birth" of the cosmos.

    The universe is regulated by laws and thus is limited by those regulations. God, as the "will" of the "living" universe is able to cause the universe to "act." What that means is that anything that is possible within the laws that govern the universe, laws that we may have only just started to understand and touch the surface of, can be brought about by God, the universe's will. Things that may appear to be miraculous to beings that do not fully understand the universe and its governing laws, may in fact not be miraculous at all. They may just be actions brought about by an entity that more fully understands the universe and its governing principles than we do.

    Such an understanding of God changes the idea of what omnipotence means and also what omniscience means. Omnipotence can now be understood as meaning that God fully knowns and understands all things within the universe and is able to do all that can be done within the framework of the laws that govern the universe.

    To simplify what I'm getting at I propose that one should think of oneself as the universe. Then think of God as one's mind and will. Everything within the body is a part of the body but is not in and of itself the body. Cells constantly die, and are subsequently removed from existence within the body and replaced, just as stars, planets, and living creatures "live", "die", and are replaced in form within the cosmos.
    The difference between the universe and one's self in my model is huge in one respect. That respect is the reality that within the universe it appears that there are various different and distinct sentient minds all existing simultaneousely, whereas we do not see that to be the case within the individual. With that difference in mind; might the "self" simply be an emergent quality the will of the universe placed in higher life forms that is no more than a mirror of the universe's will at different points of time existing together on the same stage. Such an idea eliminates the idea that each person has a free and independent will, which is a bummer for some, but it provides a possible explaination for why "higher" intelligence exists, and that perhaps may be so that the universe can learn and "see" in a real life dimenstration a way to learn knowledge of good and evil, whether sentient life is ultimately even worthy of existing, etc.
    Last edited by throwback; 11-10-2011 at 03:26 PM.

  10. #30
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    Throwback - that was an excellent and intriguing post!

    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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