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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    The Bible answers most major questions in life including issues of sexuality - such as homosexuality and masturbation. This answer requires a dilligent study!

    The answer for men regarding masturbation is basically answered in the following verse:

    (1 John 3:9 KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


    Thanks man! This thread certainly needed a little levity.

    For those who don't get cer1056's joke, the "seed" mentioned in that verse refers to the Word of God, not the ejaculate that squirts out when someone masturbates.

    1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
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  2. #12
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    Lets take a second look ?????

    Would it not be correct that the Bible demands spiritual purity, that this purity is of the Mind (thoughts, desires), Body, and emotions?

    My understanding is that the Bible is to be interptreted literally if it makes sense to do so.

    (1 John 3:9 KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Look at the literal meaning of the word seed from the Strong's Concordance used in this case:

    G4690 σπέρμα sperma sper'-mah From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male 'sperm'); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting):—issue, seed.

    While it may not be popular - this verse does mean - Stop messing around sexually if your not married! We are to be spiritual virgins in mind and body.


    For those who don't get cer1056's joke, the "seed" mentioned in that verse refers to the Word of God, not the ejaculate that squirts out when someone masturbates.

    (1 Peter 1:23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Reply: I'm not so sure that "spiritual Seed" makes to much sense in the context your suggesting. But as physical seed - its makes perfect sense.

    I do find it interesting though that the issue of defining the Heart was ignored.

    Reg

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Would it not be correct that the Bible demands spiritual purity, that this purity is of the Mind (thoughts, desires), Body, and emotions?
    Sure. And what is impure about relieving yourself when you have no mate? If you don't relieve yourself, will you not be more prone to sin by look and lusting after women? Therefore, masturbation is good and helpful to keep yourself pure.

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    My understanding is that the Bible is to be interptreted literally if it makes sense to do so.
    Where did you get that idea? It is guaranteed to lead to gross errors. For example, it is "possible" to interpret Christ's statement that we should gouge out our eyes literally - but it would be foolish to do so. The "literal principle" is the most absurd and misleading "hermeneutic principle" ever proposed. The Bible is a spiritual book. It is the furthest thing from "literal" that I could imagine.

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    (1 John 3:9 KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Look at the literal meaning of the word seed from the Strong's Concordance used in this case:

    G4690 σπέρμα sperma sper'-mah From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting):—issue, seed.

    While it may not be popular - this verse does mean - Stop messing around sexually if your not married! We are to be spiritual virgins in mind and body.
    And why did you leave out the rest of the definition that contradicts your false claim? Did you really think you could deceive anyone so simply?
    4690 sperma {sper'-mah}
    Meaning: 1) from which a plant germinates 1a) the seed i.e. the grain or kernel which contains within itself the germ of the future plants 1a1) of the grains or kernels sown 1b) metaph. a seed i.e. a residue, or a few survivors reserved as the germ of a new race (just as seed is kept from the harvest for the sowing) 2) the semen virile 2a) the product of this semen, seed, children, offspring, progeny 2b) family, race, posterity 2c) whatever possesses vital force or life giving power 2c1) of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated
    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    For those who don't get cer1056's joke, the "seed" mentioned in that verse refers to the Word of God, not the ejaculate that squirts out when someone masturbates.

    (1 Peter 1:23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    Reply: I'm not so sure that "spiritual Seed" makes to much sense in the context your suggesting. But as physical seed - its makes perfect sense.
    Oh really now? It makes perfect sense does it? Then let's put your interpretation in the verse and see what it is "really" telling us:
    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [masturbate]; for his seed (sperma) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    Oh yeah baby ... that's what the Bible is "obviously" teaching in this verse. Who ever is born of God does not masturbate! Indeed, they aren't even able to masturbate, so now we have finally found a test for True Believers! Anyone who is able to masturbate is not a True Believer! Brilliant!

    And by your interpretation, Jesus is sperm!
    Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed (sperma)were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds (sperma), as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed (sperma), which is Christ.
    And so are all Christians!
    Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed (sperma), and heirs according to the promise.
    Oh yeah baby! We're all sperm. Glad we got that cleared up.

    Oh, and I just realized that a Christian can't ever have any kids, because "his seed remaineth in him!"
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  4. #14
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    A little different perspective

    Would it not be correct that the Bible demands spiritual purity, that this purity is of the Mind (thoughts, desires), Body, and emotions?

    Sure. And what is impure about relieving yourself when you have no mate? If you don't relieve yourself, will you not be more prone to sin by look and lusting after women? Therefore, masturbation is good and helpful to keep yourself pure.
    Based on that logic - you must think that God must owe Sodom and Gomorah an appology.

    My understanding is that the Bible is to be interptreted literally if it makes sense to do so.

    Where did you get that idea? It is guaranteed to lead to gross errors. For example, it is "possible" to interpret Christ's statement that we should gouge out our eyes literally - but it would be foolish to do so. The "literal principle" is the most absurd and misleading "hermeneutic principle" ever proposed. The Bible is a spiritual book. It is the furthest thing from "literal" that I could imagine.
    The Bible says he is a God of truth that cannot lie. I don't see any room for Moral Ambiguity. The ten commandments were COMMANDMENTS - not if it seems right of feels right individual. We live in the age of the church of Laodecia - the Luke warm church where secular humanism as moral relavitism runs rampant.

    [QUOTE]Where did you get that idea? It is guaranteed to lead to gross errors. For example, it is "possible" to interpret Christ's statement that we should gouge out our eyes literally - but it would be foolish to do so. The "literal principle" is the most absurd and misleading "hermeneutic principle" ever proposed. The Bible is a spiritual book. It is the furthest thing from "literal" that I could imagine.[/QUOTE]


    Now I understand why Faith doesn't work for you. You can never truly understand the secret of faith coming from a background perspective of relativism.

    This end time period witnesses the restoration of the ancient Babylonian (literal meaning -Confusion) system.



    And why did you leave out the rest of the definition that contradicts your false claim? Did you really think you could deceive anyone so simply?
    I didn't leave out anything - I copied the meaning in the electronic version of the Strong's Concordance that I have EXACTLY. Where did you get your version? ...and why do you accusitorilly ass/u/me that I deliberately did?


    If you understood biblical faith, it gives a person the power to master and control those strong physical urges. Without faith we are victims of our own flesh.

    (1 John 5:4 KJV) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    This verse means that you have to have Faith to overcome the world - it is quite literal.

    You have to be of the spirit to walk in the spirit.

    In this age as any other - the wisdom of men is foolishness before God.

    Men turn good to evil, and evil to good in there relativism. The bible refers to this moral relativism of men when it speaks of the traditions of men that make the word of God of non-effect.

    I am not saying this to criticise or fight with you, Truth must come first and foremost. God's Truth never changes even as God never changes - there is no relavitism.

    Truth must come first and foremost in all things or we are lost to the confusions of personal relativism.

    In Truth we are able to learn and utilize the Power of faith to give us victory over the world (and the flesh).

    Too many people in their ignorance (we are all ignorant in something), and their need to be right at any cost (immaturity), throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Moral relativism is just one more way to enter the maze, a house of mirrors, the mad house of confusion, where the path is so obscured there is no way out.

    Reg

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056
    Would it not be correct that the Bible demands spiritual purity, that this purity is of the Mind (thoughts, desires), Body, and emotions?

    Sure. And what is impure about relieving yourself when you have no mate? If you don't relieve yourself, will you not be more prone to sin by look and lusting after women? Therefore, masturbation is good and helpful to keep yourself pure.
    Based on that logic - you must think that God must owe Sodom and Gomorah an appology.
    That's a non sequitur. The things done in Sodom and Gommorah were violence against other people. Masturbation is nothing like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056
    My understanding is that the Bible is to be interptreted literally if it makes sense to do so.
    Where did you get that idea? It is guaranteed to lead to gross errors. For example, it is "possible" to interpret Christ's statement that we should gouge out our eyes literally - but it would be foolish to do so. The "literal principle" is the most absurd and misleading "hermeneutic principle" ever proposed. The Bible is a spiritual book. It is the furthest thing from "literal" that I could imagine.
    The Bible says he is a God of truth that cannot lie. I don't see any room for Moral Ambiguity. The ten commandments were COMMANDMENTS - not if it seems right of feels right individual. We live in the age of the church of Laodecia - the Luke warm church where secular humanism as moral relavitism runs rampant.
    Nothing I said implies moral relativism.

    It sounds like you are repeating religious sound bites without any real comprehension of the issues involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Where did you get that idea? It is guaranteed to lead to gross errors. For example, it is "possible" to interpret Christ's statement that we should gouge out our eyes literally - but it would be foolish to do so. The "literal principle" is the most absurd and misleading "hermeneutic principle" ever proposed. The Bible is a spiritual book. It is the furthest thing from "literal" that I could imagine.
    Now I understand why Faith doesn't work for you. You can never truly understand the secret of faith coming from a background perspective of relativism.
    Ha! You sure jump to false conclusions quick! I have not said a word about moral "relativism." You really need to learn to look before you leap or you'll never know where you are gonna land.


    I would think you would try to be accurate in your writings since you are so concerned with "absolute truth" and all that kind of stuff. It sure isn't showing in your posts, dude!

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    This end time period witnesses the restoration of the ancient Babylonian (literal meaning -Confusion) system.
    That's not true. We are not in the "end times." That's a religious delusion that's been going on for decades now. Folks were preaching the rapture was sure to happen back in the 70s and then the 80s and then the 90s and then ... you get the picutre. You've been hoodwinked with a mountain of ludicrous crap called "end times prophecy" made up by people with an average IQ of 93 or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    And why did you leave out the rest of the definition that contradicts your false claim? Did you really think you could deceive anyone so simply?
    I didn't leave out anything - I copied the meaning in the electronic version of the Strong's Concordance that I have EXACTLY. Where did you get your version? ...and why do you accusitorilly ass/u/me that I deliberately did?
    I'm sorry. I assumed you did it deliberately because it didn't occur to me that you could be so ignorant of the true meaning of words in the Bible. Anyone commenting on the Bible with all the "absolute authority" like you do should at least of have the basic knowledge of the meaning of words! What makes you think you have the requisite knowledge to speak authoritatively about the meaning of the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    If you understood biblical faith, it gives a person the power to master and control those strong physical urges. Without faith we are victims of our own flesh.
    That's another relgious delusion. You can't even understand the meaning of the word "seed" in 1 John 3:9 and you want to pontificate about the superpowers acquired by "biblical faith." Maybe you should apply some of you supre-faith to looking up words in the dictionary!

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    (1 John 5:4 KJV) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    This verse means that you have to have Faith to overcome the world - it is quite literal.
    Oh really? Have you literally overcome the world? Are you now literally the dictator of the planet? You don't even know the meaning of the word "literal" do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    In this age as any other - the wisdom of men is foolishness before God.
    So now you want to justify your ignorance of the defintions of words by calling it the "foolishness of God?"

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Men turn good to evil, and evil to good in there relativism. The bible refers to this moral relativism of men when it speaks of the traditions of men that make the word of God of non-effect.
    Like your own "tradition" that says masturbation is a sin? There's not a word in the Bible that states your doctrine you know. So you are doing the very thing you accuse of. Maybe you should look up the word "hypocrisy."

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    I am not saying this to criticise or fight with you, Truth must come first and foremost. God's Truth never changes even as God never changes - there is no relavitism.
    I have not said a word abour "moral relativism." Where did you get that idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    Truth must come first and foremost in all things or we are lost to the confusions of personal relativism.
    Like the definition of the word "seed?" Like the your crazy interpretion of 1 John 3:9?
    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not masturbate; for his seed (sperma) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    I find it outrageously ironic that the folks who shout loudest about the importance of "TRUTH" are the very people who are furthest from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cer1056 View Post
    In Truth we are able to learn and utilize the Power of faith to give us victory over the world (and the flesh).

    Too many people in their ignorance (we are all ignorant in something), and their need to be right at any cost (immaturity), throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Moral relativism is just one more way to enter the maze, a house of mirrors, the mad house of confusion, where the path is so obscured there is no way out.

    Reg
    The "mad house of confusion" is indeed a confusion of language. It is ironic that your confused teachings arise for your ignorance of the meaning of words.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's a non sequitur. The things done in Sodom and Gommorah were violence against other people. Masturbation is nothing like that. Like your own "tradition" that says masturbation is a sin? There's not a word in the Bible that states your doctrine you know.
    Richard, you certainly have a talent for transforming the simple to the complex. If we reduce the act to nothing more than a manifestation of the lust of the flesh, and Paul commands; "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Galatians 5:15-17), it seems to be a settled topic, unless of course, one does not accept the authority of the scriptures. In that case... anything goes.

    John

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    That's a non sequitur. The things done in Sodom and Gommorah were violence against other people. Masturbation is nothing like that. Like your own "tradition" that says masturbation is a sin? There's not a word in the Bible that states your doctrine you know.
    Richard, you certainly have a talent for transforming the simple to the complex. If we reduce the act to nothing more than a manifestation of the lust of the flesh, and Paul commands; "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Galatians 5:15-17), it seems to be a settled topic, unless of course, one does not accept the authority of the scriptures. In that case... anything goes.

    John
    That's funny - most people say the opposite about my writing.

    If we "reduce the act to nothing more than" anything, it should be reduced to a normal body function like taking a dump. This is because it is a strong physical urge that will frequently force itself out in nocturnal emissions if ignored. You have given no reason a person should choose to suffer with this condition given that it can be quickly resolved in a fashion practiced by all humans who have ever lived on this planet. If anything, I would say it is your religion that has created confusion and complexity around an issue that should be simple and clear to all healthy adults.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's funny - most people say the opposite about my writing.

    If we "reduce the act to nothing more than" anything, it should be reduced to a normal body function like taking a dump. This is because it is a strong physical urge that will frequently force itself out in nocturnal emissions if ignored. You have given no reason a person should choose to suffer with this condition given that it can be quickly resolved in a fashion practiced by all humans who have ever lived on this planet. If anything, I would say it is your religion that has created confusion and complexity around an issue that should be simple and clear to all healthy adults.
    Okay, I'll accept the implication that it is my "religion". Perhaps you or whosoever will, might try incorporating this verse into your imagination the next time you indulge in your solo sexual gratification: "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things (Philippians 4:7-9). You just might find a sinful thought creeping in at some point prior to conclusion (or climax if you will).

    John

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jce View Post
    Okay, I'll accept the implication that it is my "religion". Perhaps you or whosoever will, might try incorporating this verse into your imagination the next time you indulge in your solo sexual gratification: "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things (Philippians 4:7-9). You just might find a sinful thought creeping in at some point prior to conclusion (or climax if you will).

    John
    Nobody is suggesting that we should make it a spiritual practice to "think upon" (i.e. meditate upon) taking a dump or masturbating. I think you have misapplied that verse.

    As for "sinful thoughts creeping in" - that will already be happening before a healthy person becomes aware of the need or desire to masturbate. But if they choose to simply suppress their natural desires, they will most likely find themselves having a much larger fixation on "sinful thoughts." Pretty much everyone seems to know this fact about the human mind. When authentic, natural, and healthy desires are suppressed, they will become more and more insistent. Indeed, there is a vast body of literature discussing the psychology of repressed desires. Here is a snippet from the wiki article:

    Psychological repression, also psychic repression or simply repression, is the psychological attempt by an individual to repel one's own desires and impulses towards pleasurable instincts by excluding the desire from one's consciousness and holding or subduing it in the unconscious. Repression plays a major role in many mental illnesses, and in the psyche of average people.

    Religions that tend to cause psychological disorders in people are not healthy, and I see no reason to think they are "of God."
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    This is because it is a strong physical urge that will frequently force itself out in nocturnal emissions if ignored.
    In that case... it would be an "involuntary" act. While awake you can make a willful choice. I would not compare it to an excretion which is a necessary result from the digestive system. In that scenario, if you do not to choose to take care of your business in a timely fashion, and you are stuck on the subway due to some un-forseen event, somebody's gonna be offended.

    John

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