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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    What is there to explain? What don't you understand about it?
    What does it mean shall not prevent?

    Besides. What's the argument on this verse?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    What does it mean shall not prevent?

    Besides. What's the argument on this verse?
    Tell me what you think it means, and then I'll give my explanation.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Tell me what you think it means, and then I'll give my explanation.
    What problem is there in translation then? Why did you bring it up?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    What problem is there in translation then? Why did you bring it up?
    You have not answered my question. I asked you what "shall not prevent" means in 1 Thess 4:15 as an example of why the KJV is not as good as modern translations.

    So what do you think it means?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    You have not answered my question. I asked you what "shall not prevent" means in 1 Thess 4:15 as an example of why the KJV is not as good as modern translations.

    So what do you think it means?
    Prevent means "not let".
    But I think the verse is referring that:
    KJV 1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    We that are alive will not go before those who are dead.

  6. #26
    This is a related topic, but not exactly on the topic of the choosing of the Mazoretic text.

    On a paper written by a judge which detailed some conspiracies and ulterior intents of the workings of religions and govt he included this observation about the KJV.

    The King James Version of the Bible was concocted by the King under the guidance
    of Pope Innocent III. [This is the same King who was convinced by the Pope, that the Pope
    was God’s representative on earth!] This collaboration was kept secret to conceal the truth
    of their manipulation of the prophet’s written word. If you can locate an ancient manuscript
    of the Bible, which predates the King James Version; you will discover that [during the
    crucifixion of Christ], it is written in the ancient text that Jesus said: 'Forgive them NOT,
    for they know what they do!' In the King James Version, it is written that Jesus said:
    'Forgive them Father, for they know NOT what they do.' The King James
    interpretation represents a passive version and is in keeping with the purpose and the
    accolade mentioned in Article 3 of the Treaty of Verona.
    Has anyone a copy of an 'ancient manuscript' which reflects the words of Jesus from the cross as stated here.... Those who crucified him were indeed given the rest of their lives to come to faith, but in the end, if they did not, their lives were demanded of them...
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    This is a related topic, but not exactly on the topic of the choosing of the Mazoretic text.

    On a paper written by a judge which detailed some conspiracies and ulterior intents of the workings of religions and govt he included this observation about the KJV.

    Has anyone a copy of an 'ancient manuscript' which reflects the words of Jesus from the cross as stated here.... Those who crucified him were indeed given the rest of their lives to come to faith, but in the end, if they did not, their lives were demanded of them...
    The Wycliff, the John Purvey bible [a friend of Wycliff], the Tyndale, the Geneva, and the KJV all read the same. I take note that the saying is directed towards and in the context of the soldiers who were casting lots for his clothing.

    If there is a difference in Luke 23:34 from how it is translated it would have to be in the original languages or Latin.

    Here is a link to the Geneva bible homepage. There is a pdf file of a parallel version of Wycliff, Purvey, Tyndale, Geneva, KJV's new testaments by Clayton G. Porter. It is a 21 meg file.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 10-09-2011 at 04:54 PM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    You have not answered my question. I asked you what "shall not prevent" means in 1 Thess 4:15 as an example of why the KJV is not as good as modern translations.

    So what do you think it means?
    Prevent means "not let".
    But I think the verse is referring that:
    KJV 1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    We that are alive will not go before those who are dead.
    That's right. I asked the question because the modern meaning of "prevent" as "not let" is different than the meaning of that word in the KJV. This means that every modern person who does not have this knowledge will stumble over that verse. And that's one of the reasons the KJV is not the best version for readers of modern English (which was the point I was trying to make).
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    This is a related topic, but not exactly on the topic of the choosing of the Mazoretic text.

    On a paper written by a judge which detailed some conspiracies and ulterior intents of the workings of religions and govt he included this observation about the KJV.

    The King James Version of the Bible was concocted by the King under the guidance of Pope Innocent III. [This is the same King who was convinced by the Pope, that the Pope was God’s representative on earth!] This collaboration was kept secret to conceal the truth of their manipulation of the prophet’s written word. If you can locate an ancient manuscript of the Bible, which predates the King James Version; you will discover that [during the crucifixion of Christ], it is written in the ancient text that Jesus said: “Forgive them NOT, for they know what they do!” In the King James Version, it is written that Jesus said:
    “Forgive them Father, for they know NOT what they do.” The King James
    interpretation represents a passive version and is in keeping with the purpose and the accolade mentioned in Article 3 of the Treaty of Verona.
    Has anyone a copy of an 'ancient manuscript' which reflects the words of Jesus from the cross as stated here.... Those who crucified him were indeed given the rest of their lives to come to faith, but in the end, if they did not, their lives were demanded of them...
    King James in cahoots with Pope Innocent III? That's nuts! They lived in different centuries. And I have access to plenty of ancient manuscripts that predate the KJV, and not one of them has the variation claimed in that quote. Do you have a source for this? It smells like a typical lunatic conspiracy theory based on total ignorance of both Bible and history.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    The Wycliff, the John Purvey bible [a friend of Wycliff], the Tyndale, the Geneva, and the KJV all read the same. I take note that the saying is directed towards and in the context of the soldiers who were casting lots for his clothing.

    If there is a difference in Luke 23:34 from how it is translated it would have to be in the original languages or Latin.

    Here is a link to the Geneva bible homepage. There is a pdf file of a parallel version of Wycliff, Purvey, Tyndale, Geneva, KJV's new testaments by Clayton G. Porter. It is a 21 meg file.
    Most early manuscripts omit that saying altogether. I have not seen one that has the variation claimed. It's just a nutty rumor picked up by the fringe anti-Semites it seems to me.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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