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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    God explicitly said that they would die the day they ate. So God was not true to his word

    Second story of creation:

    בְּיוֹם עֲשׂוֹת יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱ־לֹהִים אֶרֶץ וְשָׁמָיִם
    On the day of Hashem Elohim's making of earth and heaven and no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, (..,) and a mist went up (...) and He formed man (...)
    and He planted a garden (...) and He made grow (...) and a river went out (...) and He took the man (...) And Hashem Elohim commanded man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it, for on the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die."
    בְּיוֹם אֲכָלְךָ מִמֶּנּוּ מוֹת תָּמוּת


    Genesis 1:5,
    And Elohim called the light day, and the darkness He called night, and it was evening and it was morning, day one,

    Day one, יוֹם אֶחָד, "yom echad", and not "yom rishon", not the first in a row. But "all encompassing one".

    Rashi
    According to the sequence of the language of the chapter, it should have been written, “the first day,” as it is written regarding the other days, “second, third, fourth.” Why did Scripture write“one” ? Because the Holy One, blessed be He, was the only one in His world, for the angels were not created until the second day. [i.e., יוֹם אֶחָד is understood as ‘the day of the only One’] So is it explained in Genesis Rabbah (3:8).
    only one = "yachid" = Greek μονογενὴς (John 1:18)

    (You see that Rashi is much more Christian than Christianity...)
    Last edited by sylvius; 09-01-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #192
    Richard wrote,

    That's not true. God never told them anything about any consequence of "sexism." God himself established sexist laws in the Bible. It is entirely his doing.

    And worse, you refer to "disobedience of God's word of truth." That is false because God was not true to his word. He said they would DIE the day that they ate of the tree, but that didn't happen. And then he imposed curses on them that he did not warn them about beforehand! So God was was not true to his own word, and he is totally and absolutely responsible for the actions HE CHOSE after they sinned.

    The real issue here is that the Bible has exactly the character we would expect if it were written by primitive men. That's why this is proof that it is not the word of God.
    Yes he did, in Gen. 3:15 (their transgression causing this hostility/sexism through the seed). When reading scripture many times a passage is given in “general” terms where further details are given in other passages; the same applies here. Ex. In Gen. 2:17 Adam is told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the warning that in “fulfilling” that transgression would be “in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

    Now it stands to reason that since they did not literally die the day they ate, the “death” God's speaks of must have further meaning besides physical death. Metaphorically we die in many ways, spiritually, mentally, in pain, sickness, etc. and eventually physical death; this I believe is how God is speaking in Gen. 2:17.

    The details and consequences of Adam and Eve's actions are not given us here but are given us in Gen. 3:14-19. In Gen. 2:17 God is revealing to Adam that he (and she) would bring down upon themselves these consequences “of dying” in “the day they eat (transgress) thereof.” It is a self-fulfilling prophecy brought upon by the transgressors Adam and Eve, NOT GOD! It is Adam and Eve's transgression that brings about the Words spoken by God. God gave them the Word/message/warning and left them to choose whom they would obey.

    Now God foreknowing what this transgression would lead to, he reveals to us in Gen. 3:14-19. “Because thou hast done this--.” Now he tells them because you have done this THIS is what will happen to the serpent and to Adam and Eve from that time forward: To the serpent: "dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.” In scripture “dust” is idiomatic for “subservience,” one ruling over another.

    This is the “enmity” God “put” (the consequence of Adam and Eve's transgression) between the serpent and the woman's seed (Gen. 3:15). We see because of this transgression will come “pain and sorrow.” For the woman (Gen. 3:16) her conception will come with great pain; for the man (vv. 17-19) toil and sweat for survival all the days of their lives.

    That is not true. It was GOD and GOD ALONE who declared the curses upon Adam and Eve. But even if you were correct about the Garden story, God would still be responsible for all the sexist laws that he instituted in the Torah. That was HIS WORD, not the word of men (unless you agree that the Bible was not inspired by God).

    God could have chosen any kind of punishment he wanted. The fact that he chose to put men in rulership over women means he instituted sexism. And then he confirmed this throughout the entire Bible with sexist laws and commands like "I don't allow a woman to teach" (which Paul based on the Garden story because Eve was deceived). It is entirely God's choice to set up this system.

    And again, Adam and Eve were never told they would be cursed with sexism. On the contrary, God explicitly said that they would die the day they ate. So God was not true to his word and he was not just because he imposed a punishment that he didn't warn them about.
    In foreknowledge God declared the “warnings” that would come upon Adam and eve if they took of the tree of good and evil, and because of their transgression they came to pass, by the “will” of Adam and Eve-NOT GOD. The “warning” became “a curse” to Adam and Eve due to the fault of Adam and Eve-NOT GOD!

    Because of MAN God would later institute the Laws of Torah in order to gradually bring his people Israel back to how he wanted it in the garden, but they disobeyed him as is clearly seen throughout the OT. MAN instituted sexism and rulership over woman BECAUSE of the transgression in the garden- NOT GOD!

    The Bible is the Word of God whether it is believed or not, the choice lies with the receiver of that Word.

    That's absurd. God's laws instituted slavery and sexism and they have been used for centuries to justify gross immorality. If God had wanted to set things right, he simply would have commanded that no one keep slaves and that women were equal.
    Sexism and slavery were instituted by man, and God's laws were set up so that in time, God would make right, through Israel those transgressions had they obeyed.

    That is absolutely false. The sexism is built into the Bible. Indeed, it is entwined into the fundamental theology of the Bible. God is MALE (FATHER) MALE (SON) MALE (SPIRIT) and he is HEAD over Christ as Christ is HEAD over men and men are HEAD over women (who are the bottom of the list). Paul based the NT sexism on the Garden story. There's no way to deny these facts while remaining true to the Bible.
    When Adam and Eve ingested this “fruit” sexism was given birth by the very own actions of Adam and Eve themselves. They gave birth to “enmity” between them and their seed, where man would take advantage of her and have rulership over her until the coming of Christ.

    These are the facts given us in the Bible.

    God bless---Twospirits
    Last edited by Twospirits; 09-02-2012 at 06:12 AM.
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    We do not need to provide proof that God did what he said he was going to do, since we are not the ones who said it! If God did not mean what he said, then why did he say it? And if he changed his mind then he is not a god who does not change. Either way you look at it you loose...

    Rose
    Did God ever changed His mind? Of course He did!:

    http://www.anointedlinks.com/freewill.html

    Excerpt:
    Does God ever change His mind? If He does then it should be outlined in the Word. If we look at Genesis 6:6-7 we read:

    The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth – men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air – for I am grieved that I have made them.” [NIV]

    So apparently God DID change His mind – and that change of mind led to the Great Flood.

    If we look at the story of the Golden Calf in Exodus 32 we read that God was so unhappy with his ‘stiff necked people’ that, in verse10, the Lord said to Moses:

    “Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.” [NIV]

    But Moses pleaded for his people and finally God said to Moses (v14):

    Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.[NIV]

    If we continue on with the story of the errant Israelites we find that God is still unhappy with them. In Exodus 33:3 God says:

    “Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I might destroy you on the way.” [NIV]

    This is extraordinary! God is saying that He might not be able to control Himself because of the attitude of the Israelites. This is exactly what we have been looking at. God is, in some ways, at our mercy. The freewill He has given us as the tool so that we can love Him as sons and daughters can also be turned against Him – it is a two-edged sword. With gifts like freewill comes responsibility. One cannot flourish without the other.

    Look what’s happening in our schools today. We tell children that they have ‘rights’ but be don’t balance that with the knowledge that with those ‘rights’ comes ‘responsibility’ – one cannot successfully live without the other. God has given us the ‘right’ to our freewill, but we must temper that by being responsible.

    Let’s look at another Scripture where God has changed His mind. In 1 Samuel 15:35b it says:

    And the LORD was grieved that he had made Saul king over Israel. [NIV]

    Again, man has let down God and God grieved His original decision to make Saul king.

    One of the most remarkable stories in the Bible can be found in the book of Jonah (Jonah 1:1-4):
    The word of the LORD came to Jonah son of Amittai: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.”
    But Jonah ran away from the LORD and headed for Tarshish. He went down to Joppa, where he found a ship bound for that port. After paying the fare, he went aboard and sailed for Tarshish to flee from the LORD.
    Then the LORD sent a great wind on the sea, and such a violent storm arose that the ship threatened to break up. [NIV]

    With the ship threatened, Jonah told the crew to throw him overboard to appease God and to save them. This they reluctantly did and the raging sea grew calm (v15). Jonah, of course, was swallowed by a “great fish” and stayed there for three days and nights. Finally, God “commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land” (Jonah 2:10).

    Now let’s read from Jonah 3:1-4...

    Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah a second time: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”
    Jonah obeyed the word of the LORD and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very important city – a visit required three days. On the first day, Jonah started into the city. He proclaimed: “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned.” [NIV]

    So Jonah finally obeyed the Lord and told the Ninevites that they had only 40 days before their huge city of more than 120,000 people would be overturned. Reading further from Jonah 3:5-10...

    The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.
    Then he issued a proclamation in Nineveh:
    “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let any man or beast, herd or flock, taste
    anything; do not let them eat or drink. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let
    everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows?
    God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”
    When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened. [NIV]

    So the Ninevites repented of their “evil ways and their violence” and God, again, changed His mind!


    Obviously, how we behave – for good or for bad – determines how God treats us. God ‘adjusts’ His behaviour to us dependent on how we behave and what choices we make.


    God Bless and Love us.
    Last edited by CWH; 09-02-2012 at 08:41 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Yes he did, in Gen. 3:15 (their transgression causing this hostility/sexism through the seed). When reading scripture many times a passage is given in “general” terms where further details are given in other passages; the same applies here. Ex. In Gen. 2:17 Adam is told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the warning that in “fulfilling” that transgression would be “in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

    Now it stands to reason that since they did not literally die the day they ate, the “death” God's speaks of must have further meaning besides physical death. Metaphorically we die in many ways, spiritually, mentally, in pain, sickness, etc. and eventually physical death; this I believe is how God is speaking in Gen. 2:17.

    The details and consequences of Adam and Eve's actions are not given us here but are given us in Gen. 3:14-19. In Gen. 2:17 God is revealing to Adam that he (and she) would bring down upon themselves these consequences “of dying” in “the day they eat (transgress) thereof.” It is a self-fulfilling prophecy brought upon by the transgressors Adam and Eve, NOT GOD! It is Adam and Eve's transgression that brings about the Words spoken by God. God gave them the Word/message/warning and left them to choose whom they would obey.

    Now God foreknowing what this transgression would lead to, he reveals to us in Gen. 3:14-19. “Because thou hast done this--.” Now he tells them because you have done this THIS is what will happen to the serpent and to Adam and Eve from that time forward: To the serpent: "dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.” In scripture “dust” is idiomatic for “subservience,” one ruling over another.

    This is the “enmity” God “put” (the consequence of Adam and Eve's transgression) between the serpent and the woman's seed (Gen. 3:15). We see because of this transgression will come “pain and sorrow.” For the woman (Gen. 3:16) her conception will come with great pain; for the man (vv. 17-19) toil and sweat for survival all the days of their lives.
    Those are sure a lot of words to explain four little words spoken by God to Adam if he ate from the tree "thou shalt surely die". As Richard said, it wasn't until after they had eaten of the tree that God filled in the blanks...the bottom line is that according to the story Adam and Eve lived in a Garden created by God. It was God who placed the forbidden tree in its midst, easily assessable to them both, so of course the blame lies totally at the feet of God.

    If a parent has a child, and puts in front of that child a bowl of poison candy...telling the child not to eat it or he will die...and the child is talked into eating the candy by a stranger and dies. Whose to blame? The parent of course! According to the story, Adam and Eve are innocent like children, not knowing good from evil. Eve has no concept of the wickedness of the snake who presents her with a piece of fruit that to her eyes looks delicious, so she eats it. Her crime is disobedience, but the wicked intent lies solely with "god the parent" who knew that his children in their innocence would easily be tricked into eating of the forbidden tree, yet chose to put it in their midst anyway. In a court of law, God would be the guilty party!



    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    In foreknowledge God declared the “warnings” that would come upon Adam and eve if they took of the tree of good and evil, and because of their transgression they came to pass, by the “will” of Adam and Eve-NOT GOD. The “warning” became “a curse” to Adam and Eve due to the fault of Adam and Eve-NOT GOD!
    That is the key word "foreknowledge" which makes God totally liable for the outcome. Remember, the story says that if they eat of the tree their eyes will be opened and they will know good from evil.
    Gen. 3:7 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Obviously if they didn't know good from evil, how could they tell the serpent was up to no good? God knew all this would happen, yet he chose to allow it anyway...how wicked is that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Because of MAN God would later institute the Laws of Torah in order to gradually bring his people Israel back to how he wanted it in the garden, but they disobeyed him as is clearly seen throughout the OT. MAN instituted sexism and rulership over woman BECAUSE of the transgression in the garden- NOT GOD!

    The Bible is the Word of God whether it is believed or not, the choice lies with the receiver of that Word.
    There you go again, stripping your god of all his power and giving it to MAN! Who's in-charge of things anyway?


    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Sexism and slavery were instituted by man, and God's laws were set up so that in time, God would make right, through Israel those transgressions had they obeyed.
    Yes, I agree...sexism and slavery were instituted by man, because the Bible is a record of human history and the god that man created.


    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    When Adam and Eve ingested this “fruit” sexism was given birth by the very own actions of Adam and Eve themselves. They gave birth to “enmity” between them and their seed, where man would take advantage of her and have rulership over her until the coming of Christ.

    These are the facts given us in the Bible.

    God bless---Twospirits
    You just made that up. The enmity is between the woman and the serpent, not between male and female...you got your facts WRONG!

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #195
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Did God ever changed His mind? Of course He did!:

    http://www.anointedlinks.com/freewill.html

    Excerpt:
    Does God ever change His mind? If He does then it should be outlined in the Word. If we look at Genesis 6:6-7 we read:

    The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth – men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air – for I am grieved that I have made them.” [NIV]

    So apparently God DID change His mind – and that change of mind led to the Great Flood.

    If we look at the story of the Golden Calf in Exodus 32 we read that God was so unhappy with his ‘stiff necked people’ that, in verse10, the Lord said to Moses:

    “Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.” [NIV]

    But Moses pleaded for his people and finally God said to Moses (v14):

    Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.[NIV]

    If we continue on with the story of the errant Israelites we find that God is still unhappy with them. In Exodus 33:3 God says:

    “Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I might destroy you on the way.” [NIV]

    This is extraordinary! God is saying that He might not be able to control Himself because of the attitude of the Israelites. This is exactly what we have been looking at. God is, in some ways, at our mercy. The freewill He has given us as the tool so that we can love Him as sons and daughters can also be turned against Him – it is a two-edged sword. With gifts like freewill comes responsibility. One cannot flourish without the other.

    Look what’s happening in our schools today. We tell children that they have ‘rights’ but be don’t balance that with the knowledge that with those ‘rights’ comes ‘responsibility’ – one cannot successfully live without the other. God has given us the ‘right’ to our freewill, but we must temper that by being responsible.

    Let’s look at another Scripture where God has changed His mind. In 1 Samuel 15:35b it says:

    And the LORD was grieved that he had made Saul king over Israel. [NIV]

    Again, man has let down God and God grieved His original decision to make Saul king.

    One of the most remarkable stories in the Bible can be found in the book of Jonah (Jonah 1:1-4):
    The word of the LORD came to Jonah son of Amittai: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.”
    But Jonah ran away from the LORD and headed for Tarshish. He went down to Joppa, where he found a ship bound for that port. After paying the fare, he went aboard and sailed for Tarshish to flee from the LORD.
    Then the LORD sent a great wind on the sea, and such a violent storm arose that the ship threatened to break up. [NIV]

    With the ship threatened, Jonah told the crew to throw him overboard to appease God and to save them. This they reluctantly did and the raging sea grew calm (v15). Jonah, of course, was swallowed by a “great fish” and stayed there for three days and nights. Finally, God “commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land” (Jonah 2:10).

    Now let’s read from Jonah 3:1-4...

    Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah a second time: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”
    Jonah obeyed the word of the LORD and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very important city – a visit required three days. On the first day, Jonah started into the city. He proclaimed: “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned.” [NIV]

    So Jonah finally obeyed the Lord and told the Ninevites that they had only 40 days before their huge city of more than 120,000 people would be overturned. Reading further from Jonah 3:5-10...

    The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.
    Then he issued a proclamation in Nineveh:
    “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let any man or beast, herd or flock, taste
    anything; do not let them eat or drink. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let
    everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows?
    God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”
    When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened. [NIV]

    So the Ninevites repented of their “evil ways and their violence” and God, again, changed His mind!


    Obviously, how we behave – for good or for bad – determines how God treats us. God ‘adjusts’ His behaviour to us dependent on how we behave and what choices we make.


    God Bless and Love us.
    I think god needs to make up his mind...he either changes or he doesn't.

    Mal.3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  6. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Those are sure a lot of words to explain four little words spoken by God to Adam if he ate from the tree "thou shalt surely die". As Richard said, it wasn't until after they had eaten of the tree that God filled in the blanks...the bottom line is that according to the story Adam and Eve lived in a Garden created by God. It was God who placed the forbidden tree in its midst, easily assessable to them both, so of course the blame lies totally at the feet of God.

    If a parent has a child, and puts in front of that child a bowl of poison candy...telling the child not to eat it or he will die...and the child is talked into eating the candy by a stranger and dies. Whose to blame? The parent of course! According to the story, Adam and Eve are innocent like children, not knowing good from evil. Eve has no concept of the wickedness of the snake who presents her with a piece of fruit that to her eyes looks delicious, so she eats it. Her crime is disobedience, but the wicked intent lies solely with "god the parent" who knew that his children in their innocence would easily be tricked into eating of the forbidden tree, yet chose to put it in their midst anyway. In a court of law, God would be the guilty party!





    That is the key word "foreknowledge" which makes God totally liable for the outcome. Remember, the story says that if they eat of the tree their eyes will be opened and they will know good from evil.
    Gen. 3:7 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Obviously if they didn't know good from evil, how could they tell the serpent was up to no good? God knew all this would happen, yet he chose to allow it anyway...how wicked is that?




    There you go again, stripping your god of all his power and giving it to MAN! Who's in-charge of things anyway?




    Yes, I agree...sexism and slavery were instituted by man, because the Bible is a record of human history and the god that man created.




    You just made that up. The enmity is between the woman and the serpent, not between male and female...you got your facts WRONG!

    Take care,
    Rose
    Rose, the enmity between the woman and the serpent does its work through the seed of the offspring of the male and female-don't ya think?

    I knew from the very first post that this discussion would come to futility, but I thought for the reader's sake I would give some insight into this thread. This I've done, and there's not much more I can say, so I won't bother going on and on over the same ground. It would be nice if some of you readers can chirp in and add other insights into this discussion that may give us more understanding of the God of the Bible that Rose and Richard no longer believe in.

    But for now, God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  7. #197
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    Jun 2007
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    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Rose, the enmity between the woman and the serpent does its work through the seed of the offspring of the male and female-don't ya think?

    I knew from the very first post that this discussion would come to futility, but I thought for the reader's sake I would give some insight into this thread. This I've done, and there's not much more I can say, so I won't bother going on and on over the same ground. It would be nice if some of you readers can chirp in and add other insights into this discussion that may give us more understanding of the God of the Bible that Rose and Richard no longer believe in.

    But for now, God bless---Twospirits
    According to Paul, Gen.3:15 has nothing to do with men ruling over women, as he points out in Romans.
    Rom.16:19-20 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    The curse that was placed on the serpent (according to Paul) was a forewarning of the conflict between good (Jesus) and evil (Satan) which is far different from the desire of men to dominate women.

    Just because Richard and I no longer believe the Bible is the word of God, does not mean we can't interpret it correctly. We probably have a much broader and clearer perspective of the Bible, because our vision is not clouded by trying to defend and justify every wicked and evil deed done by its god.

    There are two words that can completely deconstruct the Bible's validity as the word of God...MALE BIAS

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    According to Paul, Gen.3:15 has nothing to do with men ruling over women, as he points out in Romans.
    Rom.16:19-20 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    The curse that was placed on the serpent (according to Paul) was a forewarning of the conflict between good (Jesus) and evil (Satan) which is far different from the desire of men to dominate women.

    Just because Richard and I no longer believe the Bible is the word of God, does not mean we can't interpret it correctly. We probably have a much broader and clearer perspective of the Bible, because our vision is not clouded by trying to defend and justify every wicked and evil deed done by its god.

    There are two words that can completely deconstruct the Bible's validity as the word of God...MALE BIAS

    Take care,
    Rose
    Rose, you say you can interpret scripture correctly, if so then you would know that "evil" is not "limited" to a particular thing-or things-but covers anything and everything that is contrary to "good." This includes the "ruling over woman" God warned what was to happen to Adam and Eve BECAUSE of what they did.

    The bias you hold lies in your heart not in the God of the Bible. May God take that away from your heart. You are correct in blaming man, but wrong in blaming God.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Rose, you say you can interpret scripture correctly, if so then you would know that "evil" is not "limited" to a particular thing-or things-but covers anything and everything that is contrary to "good." This includes the "ruling over woman" God warned what was to happen to Adam and Eve BECAUSE of what they did.

    The bias you hold lies in your heart not in the God of the Bible. May God take that away from your heart. You are correct in blaming man, but wrong in blaming God.

    God bless---Twospirits
    Hello Twospirits,

    The Bible tells us that Adam and Eve could not discern good from evil, from that we can deduce their mentality was childlike (maybe they were children, which explains why they had no offspring while in the Garden). Given their childlike naivete' it is no wonder that the serpent could beguile Eve into eating the forbidden fruit that would allow her gain wisdom that only comes with maturity. The only blame that can be placed at the feet of Adam and Eve is disobedience, which as any parent knows come with the territory of having children. Children are not born knowing right from wrong, it is something that parents teach their children as they grow in maturity, and understanding...and parents most certainly don't purposely temp their children with something that could kill them.

    The reason we know the Garden story is written from a primitive, childlike perspective is because god the parent treats his children, Adam and Eve in a manner no parent would treat their children. No parent would ever place something that is potentially deadly in front of their immature children and then abandon them to their own devices with the strict admonition of "do not eat or else you will die", how could death have any meaning to them? If one is to believe the story as written, Adam and Eve did not know good from evil, yet they were expected to withstand the enticing words of the serpent, temping them to eat something that tantalized all of their senses. This is why if you read the Garden story realistically it doesn't make any sense, Adam and Eve cannot be both innocent and mature at the same time.

    I don't have a bias, that is why I can see the male bias in the Bible so clearly. I have no agenda I need to defend or justify, it is only those who adamantly hold on to a particular doctrine or dogma that must blind themselves to any other viewpoint.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I don't have a bias, that is why I can see the male bias in the Bible so clearly. I have no agenda I need to defend or justify, it is only those who adamantly hold on to a particular doctrine or dogma that must blind themselves to any other viewpoint.

    Take care,
    Rose
    From where you do derive that man and woman should be equal?

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