Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 18 of 22 FirstFirst ... 8141516171819202122 LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 212
  1. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hey there Henry,

    I see three problems with your explanation.

    1) God chose the punishment. He didn't have to institute perpetual oppression of women that has marred all human history! And if you are correct, why is it that modern people have "reversed" the curse and now allow women so much freedom? To me, this makes your explanation absurd because it shows that modern humans are so much better than the God of the Bible.

    2) God instituted gratuitous sexism that was not required as any kind of "punishment" for the sins of Adam and Eve. God set up a system that is rejected as primitive male domination by almost all modern people.

    3) Are we supposed to assume that all the sexist laws in the Bible were a form of punishment? Is that the intent of God's law? To write immoral laws to punish us? I thought his law was supposed to guide us to morality that is worthy of God himself!

    Basically, any attempt to justify the sexism in the Bible will make God look like a primitive human being. I don't see how anyone can overcome this fact.

    I'm very glad you are working with me on this. It helps to clarify our understanding.

    Richard
    1) Adam and Eve's sin was "disobedience" of God's word of truth. Now we know that disobedience brings "division" between people, in this case Adam and Eve, male and female. The male and female's "disobedience" to God's word caused this sexism NOT GOD! This is what God is saying will occur to mankind because of this transgression. It opened the door to division, violence, death and destruction as is clearly seen beginning with Cain and Able.

    2) It was NOT GOD who instituted sexism,it was because of Adam and Eve's disobedience. This would be the "effect" (punishment) it would have on mankind because of their transgression. It is Adam and Eve's disobedience that "set up that system" NOT GOD.

    3) The laws of God were to "right" in time through the Jewish nation the immoral things done by man that set up that system of sexism, slavery, etc. instituted since Adam and Eve if they (Israel) would have obeyed him.

    The sexism you and Rose see in the Bible was instituted by man NOT GOD. A good study of the Bible shows its as simple and straightforward as that.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  2. #172
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Its God's fault because Adam and Eve sinned?? So you fault God for punishing them, and not Adam and Eve for DISOBEYING God's law where they were clearly warned they WOULD be punished for breaking that command. The righteous warning judgment of God was given, they failed to listen, they were punished because of what they had done.

    In looking to scripture we can see why the punishment was severe because God knew what would happen if they chose not to listen to him. Adam and Eve would open up the door to violence, death and destruction, beginning with Cain and Abel, and you think God's punishment was unjust?

    God bless---Twospirits
    According to the Bible, God was the one who introduced the idea of "sexism" by the form of punishment he chose. For the crime of disobedience to God, the sexist punishment of cursing the woman with rulership of the man (who also disobeyed) was the curse that was chosen. How insane is that? It's like telling your daughter that because she disobeyed your instructions, her brother who also disobeyed was going to rule over her...that creates more problems than it solves!

    Not only was God's punishment biased against the woman "sexist", but many of the laws that the biblegod gave to the Hebrews were also extremely biased against women...like women being considered the property of the male, or that men could divorce their wives, but women could not divorce their husbands, men could have more than one wife, but women could not...and that's just for starters. The Bible is filled with sexism from cover to cover.

    The bottom line is that sexism, and male bias in the Bible originated with commands from its god who arbitrarily introduced enmity between the male and female, by using gender differences as a form of punishment for disobedience. Not only did sexism begin with the biblegod in Genesis, but it was carried through the entire Bible by the introduction of laws, favoring the man and subjugating the woman to the status of property for the use of the man. Remember what Paul said: 1Cor.11:9 "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #173
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,620
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    According to the Bible, God was the one who introduced the idea of "sexism" by the form of punishment he chose. For the crime of disobedience to God, the sexist punishment of cursing the woman with rulership of the man (who also disobeyed) was the curse that was chosen. How insane is that? It's like telling your daughter that because she disobeyed your instructions, her brother who also disobeyed was going to rule over her...that creates more problems than it solves!

    Not only was God's punishment biased against the woman "sexist", but many of the laws that the biblegod gave to the Hebrews were also extremely biased against women...like women being considered the property of the male, or that men could divorce their wives, but women could not divorce their husbands, men could have more than one wife, but women could not...and that's just for starters. The Bible is filled with sexism from cover to cover.

    The bottom line is that sexism, and male bias in the Bible originated with commands from its god who arbitrarily introduced enmity between the male and female, by using gender differences as a form of punishment for disobedience. Not only did sexism begin with the biblegod in Genesis, but it was carried through the entire Bible by the introduction of laws, favoring the man and subjugating the woman to the status of property for the use of the man. Remember what Paul said: 1Cor.11:9 "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."


    Rose
    The Bible starts with "male and female He created them",

    Wasn't that already a sexist enterprise?

    Male Hebrew "zachar" denotes the male organ "zachrut"
    Female Hebrew "n'keivah" denotes the female organ (from root "nakav", to pierce)

    And stunning: "zachar un'keivah" has gematria 390, like of "shamayim" ,
    like to say when copulated it menas ultimate joy.

    Genesis 1:26 has "Let us make man" , i.e. God first proposed to the angels, knowing that they would be jealous for not being able to enjoy sex.

    Greek has ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς.

    θῆλυ related to θηλάζω,v \{thay-lad'-zo}
    1) to give the breast, give suck, to suckle 2) to suck

    Matthew 11:25,
    At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to the sucklings.
    Last edited by sylvius; 08-31-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  4. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    According to the Bible, God was the one who introduced the idea of "sexism" by the form of punishment he chose. For the crime of disobedience to God, the sexist punishment of cursing the woman with rulership of the man (who also disobeyed) was the curse that was chosen. How insane is that? It's like telling your daughter that because she disobeyed your instructions, her brother who also disobeyed was going to rule over her...that creates more problems than it solves!

    Not only was God's punishment biased against the woman "sexist", but many of the laws that the biblegod gave to the Hebrews were also extremely biased against women...like women being considered the property of the male, or that men could divorce their wives, but women could not divorce their husbands, men could have more than one wife, but women could not...and that's just for starters. The Bible is filled with sexism from cover to cover.

    The bottom line is that sexism, and male bias in the Bible originated with commands from its god who arbitrarily introduced enmity between the male and female, by using gender differences as a form of punishment for disobedience. Not only did sexism begin with the biblegod in Genesis, but it was carried through the entire Bible by the introduction of laws, favoring the man and subjugating the woman to the status of property for the use of the man. Remember what Paul said: 1Cor.11:9 "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."


    Rose
    Rose, the answer to this post is given in "Sexism in the Bible" thread, post #15, so there's no need of repeating it here, thanks.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  5. #175
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,564
    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post

    Genesis 1:26 has "Let us make man" , i.e. God first proposed to the angels, knowing that they would be jealous for not being able to enjoy sex.
    Thank you Sylvius for your Hebrew language contributions.

    I am curious to know how you know God's Angels would have been jealous. We know God is jealous, and that is shown when men and women worship idols instead of the One and only true Creator. (EXo 20:5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God


    There is no verse in the Bible that I can find that indicates God's Angels get jealous. It is not a sin to be jealous; only disobeying God is a sin and God's Angels do His will. The only record we have of "angels" sinning applies to humans who were God's messengers (angels).

    It is speculation to think that God's Angels would have resented God making man in his image and making them male and female and to let male and female have sex in order to procreate; even the animals were created male and female to do the same. God's Angels are sexless and IMO would not know of or miss the feeling associated with sex. God is sexless and yet He created male and female so that they could procreate and that is a marvelous part of God's creation that we struggle to understand the complexity of. The fact that there is any "joy" associated with sex is immaterial. There are couples where sex is painful and is not joyous event though where children are wanted and are conceived that is a joyous event more so than the discomfort that might have to be endured in the sexual act. Sex outside marriage often brings unhappiness instead of joy when unwanted children are born.

    Sex might be pleasurable, but having extra marital affairs and committing adultery is comparable with;( Hebrews 11:25) to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;


    All the best.

    David

  6. #176
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,620
    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Thank you Sylvius for your Hebrew language contributions.

    I am curious to know how you know God's Angels would have been jealous.
    Rashi on Genesis 1:26,
    Let us make man: From here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He. Since man was created in the likeness of the angels, and they would envy him, He consulted them


    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    There is no verse in the Bible that I can find that indicates God's Angels get jealous.
    The snake was

    Rashi on Genesis 3:1,
    Now the serpent was cunning: What is the connection of this matter here? Scripture should have juxtaposed (below verse 21): “And He made for Adam and for his wife shirts of skin, and He dressed them.” But it teaches you as a result of what plan the serpent thrust himself upon them. He saw them naked and engaging in intercourse before everyone’s eyes, and he desired her. — [from Gen. Rabbah 18:6]
    Was then the snake an angel?
    Yes acoording to NT, Revelation 20:1-3,
    And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

    Satan being an angel too.
    Last edited by sylvius; 09-01-2012 at 01:11 AM.

  7. #177
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Not from this world...from the other side
    Posts
    3,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Of course oppression, and slavery happened to men, but it has always been at the hands of other men. Women have never owned men, nor kept them as slaves. Throughout history men have not been content with controlling their own bodies and lives, but feel the need to control the lives and bodies of women (and other men too), just like the biblegod they created.

    Rose
    Rose[/QUOTE]
    So you want women to own men...for what? What do a woman gained by owning men? if you are talking about male slave, yes there is some gain and there were women who owned male slaves but if you are talking about sex partners, it will only to their disadvantage. The reason why men owned women (and other men too) is perhaps for power and sex but there are other reasons such as in my thread on polygamy which I mentioned for charity and compassion such as helping women overcome poverty, loneliness, rejection. etc. Women naturally need the protection of men to protect them against the enemies and wild beasts and also to help and support the family. By "owning" the women, it then became the men's responsibility to protect and ensure for their well-being. Of course, as I said before some men abuse the power and responsibilty empowered to them which resulted in the women's ill-treatment.

    It is not exactly true that women don't own men; there were women that own male slaves and servants, queens and rich women that have multiple men for sex and pleasure, women with many husbands etc. although they are a minority. Some women used beauty, charms, seduction, wealth, sex to control men which is also a form of owning the men.

    God Bless all men and women equally.
    Last edited by CWH; 09-01-2012 at 02:37 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  8. #178
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Rose
    So you want women to own men...for what? What do a woman gained by owning men? if you are talking about male slave, yes there is some gain and there were women who owned male slaves but if you are talking about sex partners, it will only to their disadvantage.
    What kind of craziness are you talking about? I never said anything about wanting to own men! Where did you get that idea from?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    The reason why men owned women (and other men too) is perhaps for power and sex but there are other reasons such as in my thread on polygamy which I mentioned for charity and compassion such as helping women overcome poverty, loneliness, rejection. etc. Women naturally need the protection of men to protect them against the enemies and wild beasts and also to help and support the family. By "owning" the women, it then became the men's responsibility to protect and ensure for their well-being. Of course, as I said before some men abuse the power and responsibilty empowered to them which resulted in the women's ill-treatment.
    If women needed protection it was from other men, and why do you need to "own" someone in order to protect them? That is a very misogynistic, primitive way of thinking; I don't own my children, yet I protect them. You just don't want to except that the biblegod had a very primitive, tribal mentality because he was invented by primitive, tribal men.

    It is NEVER okay to own another human being, no matter what kind of pathetic excuse you try and make up.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    It is not exactly true that women don't own men; there were women that own male slaves and servants, queens and rich women that have multiple men for sex and pleasure, women with many husbands etc. although they are a minority. Some women used beauty, charms, seduction, wealth, sex to control men which is also a form of owning the men.

    God Bless all men and women equally.
    Your excuses and justifications never cease to amaze me. Is there no end to the things you will make up to try and excuse men for their atrocious behavior? The main point that I have been reiterating over and over again is the fact that the biblegod is the one who introduces sexism in the biblical story...this behavior perfectly mirrors the structure of male dominated societies throughout history. The Bible is a good historical document that records the mindset of men at the time of its writing. It was common practice for women to be thought of as property and people to own slaves, so the god that men invented reflected those mindsets.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  9. #179
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Thank you Sylvius for your Hebrew language contributions.

    I am curious to know how you know God's Angels would have been jealous. We know God is jealous, and that is shown when men and women worship idols instead of the One and only true Creator. (EXo 20:5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God


    There is no verse in the Bible that I can find that indicates God's Angels get jealous. It is not a sin to be jealous; only disobeying God is a sin and God's Angels do His will. The only record we have of "angels" sinning applies to humans who were God's messengers (angels).


    All the best.

    David
    Hello David,

    Your post got me to thinking about the meaning of the word jealous and its synonym covetous.

    Jealous, noun 1. resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself.

    cov·et·ous adj.1. Excessively and culpably desirous of the possessions of another. See Synonyms at jealous.

    Numerous times in the Bible God proclaims himself to be a jealous god, even to the point of saying that because of his jealousy he will inflict iniquity upon the children of the fathers who hate him until the fourth generation...


    Exo. 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    yet, in the Ten Commandments God explicitly says "Thou shalt not covet", so the question is: why is it okay for God to be jealous (because he's not being worshiped properly) to the point of inflicting suffering or death upon people, but people cannot be covetous, or jealous? Looks like a double standard to me

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  10. #180
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Not from this world...from the other side
    Posts
    3,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello David,

    Your post got me to thinking about the meaning of the word jealous and its synonym covetous.

    Jealous, noun 1. resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself.

    cov·et·ous adj.1. Excessively and culpably desirous of the possessions of another. See Synonyms at jealous.

    Numerous times in the Bible God proclaims himself to be a jealous god, even to the point of saying that because of his jealousy he will inflict iniquity upon the children of the fathers who hate him until the fourth generation...


    Exo. 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    yet, in the Ten Commandments God explicitly says "Thou shalt not covet", so the question is: why is it okay for God to be jealous (because he's not being worshiped properly) to the point of inflicting suffering or death upon people, but people cannot be covetous, or jealous? Looks like a double standard to me

    Take care,
    Rose
    God's laws are always merciful unlike secular laws. Secular laws are more rigid in which e.g. commit murder will mean death sentence. God's pardon is based on several variables, one of which is mercy. Jesus said that it is ok to do good (i.e.merfciful) work on a Sabbath. It is the same with secular laws as there are exception to the rules. It is not ok to murder or kill but in wars, it is ok to murder and kill the enemy. Looks like double standard but it is not.

    Due to His merciful nature, God hardly inflict iniquity upon the children of the fathers who hate him until the fourth generation. Show me a passage in the Bible in which God did that. Hardly any. It is more of an exagerated threat so that people will fear and do what is right. Same as the use of the word jealous in human terms, why should God be jealous? The word jealous was used to reflect what was then in the Israelite's heart because they were jealous of the people who worshipped pagan gods and enjoying life, free sex with temple prostitute, abundant harvest, sexual perversions, worshipping many gods etc.


    May God Bless Us all with Mercy.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •