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  1. #1
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    Lucifer in Septuagint

    I'm curious how Lucifer made it's name into the Septuagint?
    Septuagint
    Esaias
    14:12
    How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent [orders] to all the nations is crushed to the earth.

    14:12 πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη

    Masoretic
    Isaiah
    14:12
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    Since the name comes from Latin.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I'm curious how Lucifer made it's name into the Septuagint?

    Septuagint
    Esaias
    14:12
    How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent [orders] to all the nations is crushed to the earth.

    14:12 πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη

    Masoretic
    Isaiah
    14:12
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    Since the name comes from Latin.
    The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:
    Isaiah 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
    The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:
    VUL 2 Peter 1:19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
    This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

    The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #3
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    RAM wrote:
    The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."
    Hey RAM,

    You are correct on this one. Lucifer was not satan. The name was applied to the king of Babylon. It starts out saying, "Take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON saying...."

    KJ

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    RAM wrote:
    Hey RAM,

    You are correct on this one. Lucifer was not satan. The name was applied to the king of Babylon. It starts out saying, "Take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON saying...."

    KJ
    Actually, that's not quite correct because "Lucifer" was not the name of the King of Babylon either. Lucifer was the name of the morning star, aka Venus. The translators of the LXX rendered Heylel as Eosphoros, the Greek name of Venus.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:
    quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
    The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:
    VUL et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
    This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

    The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."
    My grandmother's name was Lucifer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    My grandmother's name was Lucifer.
    That's very interesting. Where was she born? This site says the name Lucifer is usually a girl's name, and has a similar popularity as names like Elaine, Joyce, Sandy, Alison, and Andrea. I've know women with all those names, except Lucifer. I think folks forgot the real meaning in this country because they got confused by the KJV version of Isaiah 14:12.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's very interesting. Where was she born? This site says the name Lucifer is usually a girl's name, and has a similar popularity as names like Elaine, Joyce, Sandy, Alison, and Andrea. I've know women with all those names, except Lucifer. I think folks forgot the real meaning in this country because they got confused by the KJV version of .
    Either Cilicia or Syria. Not sure. There are two names that when cut short are named Lucy. Lucifer and Lussadzin. Lussadzin means born of light. Lucifer means bearer/bringer of light.

  8. #8
    Unregistered Guest

    Lucifer and the Septuagint and the KJB

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:
    Isaiah 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
    The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:
    VUL 2 Peter 1:19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
    This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

    The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."
    Wrong. Lucifer IS in the so called Greek Septuagint.


    The Greek Septuagint and Modern Greek Today

    It is also highly significant that the so called Greek Septuagint (LXX) also agrees with the reading of Lucifer. In the common copy of what is know as the Greek Septuagint, the Isaiah passage reads: πως επεσεν εκ του ουρανου, ο Εωσφορε" and the English translation is "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven."

    There are also at least three English translations of the Septuagint or Siniaticus copies, and all three of them translate it as Lucifer. The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by C.A. Muses and the Old Testament According to the Septuagint of 2009 - "How is LUCIFER fallen from heaven, that rose up in the morning!" The Septuagint online English translation can be see here

    - http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm

    where it says: "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven!" In addition to this there are The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by A.C. Muses, and the 2009 Old Testament According to the Septuagint. Then there is the modern Greek meaning of the word Εωσφορε.



    The Brenton Translation 1851 (from the Greek Septuagint) - ?How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.?


    http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Isaiah/14.html

    The Asser Septuagint 2009 -

    How is LUCIFER fallen from heaven, that rose up in the morning! He is crushed unto the earth, that sent light to all the nations.

    http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/pdf/ot/prophetical.pdf


    The New Brenton Translation 2012 - ?12How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.?

    http://www.katapi.org.uk/katapiNSBun...=1&version=NBr



    I have in my study a modern day Greek-English dictionary. It is called Divry's Modern English-Greek and Greek-English Desk Dictionary, published by D. C. Divry, Inc. Publishers New York 1974. If you look under the English Lucifer page 182 you get Εωσφορε, and if you look up the word Εωσφορε on page 523 (the same Greek word found in all copies of the Greek Septuagint) you get the English word Lucifer.

    There is also an online English to Greek Dictionary. Simply go to the site - http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon Then type in the word Lucifer and what you come up with in Greek is this same word Εωσφορε that is found in the Septuagint translations and the Modern Greek Old Testament too.

    The reasons I believe the King James Bible reading of Lucifer is correct are many. First, if this passage is not referring to the fall of Satan, also known as the dragon, the old serpent, the devil, leviathan, Beelzebub, etc., then we have no account in Scripture as to how he, who was originally created by God as good, became what he is today.

    Here is my whole article on Isaiah 14:12 Lucifer or Morning Star, that shows why the King James Bible is absolutely correct.

    http://brandplucked.webs.com/luciferormorningstar.htm

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wrong. Lucifer IS in the so called Greek Septuagint.


    The Greek Septuagint and Modern Greek Today

    It is also highly significant that the so called Greek Septuagint (LXX) also agrees with the reading of Lucifer. In the common copy of what is know as the Greek Septuagint, the Isaiah passage reads: πως επεσεν εκ του ουρανου, ο Εωσφορε" and the English translation is "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven."

    There are also at least three English translations of the Septuagint or Siniaticus copies, and all three of them translate it as Lucifer. The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by C.A. Muses and the Old Testament According to the Septuagint of 2009 - "How is LUCIFER fallen from heaven, that rose up in the morning!" The Septuagint online English translation can be see here

    - http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm

    where it says: "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven!" In addition to this there are The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by A.C. Muses, and the 2009 Old Testament According to the Septuagint. Then there is the modern Greek meaning of the word Εωσφορε.
    Yes, the word "Lucifer" is found in some English translations of the Greek Septuagint, but it is not found in the Greek Septuagint per se, since that book is in Greek. Obviously, the translators were following the tradition of the Latin Vulgate which introduced the word "Lucifer."

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I have in my study a modern day Greek-English dictionary. It is called Divry's Modern English-Greek and Greek-English Desk Dictionary, published by D. C. Divry, Inc. Publishers New York 1974. If you look under the English Lucifer page 182 you get Εωσφορε, and if you look up the word Εωσφορε on page 523 (the same Greek word found in all copies of the Greek Septuagint) you get the English word Lucifer.
    Yes, that's because some translators were following the tradition of the Vulgate. There is no justification for believing that there is any entity that goes by that name. It was introduced by the Latin translation of the Hebrew text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    The reasons I believe the King James Bible reading of Lucifer is correct are many. First, if this passage is not referring to the fall of Satan, also known as the dragon, the old serpent, the devil, leviathan, Beelzebub, etc., then we have no account in Scripture as to how he, who was originally created by God as good, became what he is today.
    There are many things that are not explained in the Bible. We can't use that as a reason to make up interpretations that are not actually justified by the text itself, or people would be free to make up whatever they want. This is one of the reasons there is so much dispute about what the Bible really means. People make up interpretations without justification.

    For example, where did the first century Christians get their beliefs about fallen angels? Knowledge about them is assumed throughout the NT, and there is almost nothing like it found in the OT. So where did it come from? Why did the first century Jews get that knowledge? Mostly from folk lore and non-canonical books like the Book of Enoch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post

    Here is my whole article on Isaiah 14:12 Lucifer or Morning Star, that shows why the King James Bible is absolutely correct.

    http://brandplucked.webs.com/luciferormorningstar.htm
    Thanks for the link. I'll take a look as time permits.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post


    There are many things that are not explained in the Bible. We can't use that as a reason to make up interpretations that are not actually justified by the text itself, or people would be free to make up whatever they want. This is one of the reasons there is so much dispute about what the Bible really means. People make up interpretations without justification.
    How can a text justify its own interpretation?

    It seems you ever stick to Christian dogma "the bible explains itself"

    https://www.google.nl/search?q=the+b...xplains+itself

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