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Thread: Paul's Vision

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    I am not familiar with "Open Theology." All I know is that a God who could not change and who could not experience trial and error learning cannot symphathize with me.

    You are correct about God's coming down "to see" and "repenting" of this or that. In fact, in Genesis the NEB renders God as actually contemplating:

    The LORD thought TO HIMSELF, 'Shall I conceal from Abraham what I intend to do?"

    Gen. 18:17
    Then it says,

    I must go down and see whether their deeds warrant the outcry which has reached me. I am resolved TO KNOW the truth"

    verse 21
    The typical response is that God said these things for Abraham's sake. But Abraham was not present when God spoke these things. I believe the NEB has it right in translating it "The LORD thought to himself." God was "resolved to know" the truth of the situation.

    KJ
    I agree with all those points. The list could be extended indefinitely, as when God said to Abraham "Now I know that you fear God" seemingly implying that he didn't know before then. But I am surprised to see you express them, since as you know, almost all Christians have habitually denied them for centuries.

    So now you've got me really curious - do you identify with any group of Christians? Or are you views entirely unique to yourself?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post

    The typical response is that God said these things for Abraham's sake. But Abraham was not present when God spoke these things. I believe the NEB has it right in translating it "The LORD thought to himself." God was "resolved to know" the truth of the situation.


    KJ
    Now there is a really big challenge to your view that God learns through trial and error. If God doesn't know everything, how is able to predict the future?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    God could change Rose. In Exodus 3:14 He said, "I shall BECOME who I am BECOMING." http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...OTpdf/exo3.pdf

    God is not the same now as He was under the old covenant. You and Richard keep holding God accountable for what He then was.

    KJ

    You mean to tell me that God should not be held accountable for his actions? The omnipotent, omniscient, all-knowing God thought it was Okay to slaughter innocent men, women, and children under the OC, but changed his mind and decided to bring in a NC with different rules...that doesn't sound like a all-knowing God to me!

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    You mean to tell me that God should not be held accountable for his actions? The omnipotent, omniscient, all-knowing God thought it was Okay to slaughter innocent men, women, and children under the OC, but changed his mind and decided to bring in a NC with different rules...that doesn't sound like a all-knowing God to me!

    Rose
    God cannot be held accountable for destroying His creation any more than a potter can be held accountable for destroying his. Who are you to complain against the potter who made you?

    I am tired of you already.


    KJ

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    God cannot be held accountable for destroying His creation any more than a potter can be held accountable for destroying his. Who are you to complain against the potter who made you?

    I am tired of you already.


    KJ
    Sure, God may have the "right" to do as he wants with his own "pets" that he created, but he would not be called "kind" or "good" if he spent his days torturing them to death.

    If God is not morally accountable for his actions, then it is utterly meaningless to describe him as morally good or righteous. If what you say is true, then you have simply admitted that God is (or was) a moral monster.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    God cannot be held accountable for destroying His creation any more than a potter can be held accountable for destroying his. Who are you to complain against the potter who made you?

    I am tired of you already.



    KJ
    Well my friend, you may be tired of me speaking the truth, but isn't that how most people react when they want to hold onto their deceptions? The truth of the matter is that the Bible is a totally bias book leaning toward the aggressive, dominator male. Men have created a god to fit their desires to have power over women, and power over those who are weaker...plain and simple.

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Well my friend, you may be tired of me speaking the truth, but isn't that how most people react when they want to hold onto their deceptions? The truth of the matter is that the Bible is a totally bias book leaning toward the aggressive, dominator male. Men have created a god to fit their desires to have power over women, and power over those who are weaker...plain and simple.

    Rose
    I am tired of speaking about the new covenant God to you only to have you keep referring back to the old things. I have shown you that the new covenant God poured out His Spirit on men and women indiscriminately and that both men and women were to use their gifts in the church indiscriminately. I have shown that men and women were to be silent indiscriminately for the sake of order. Yet you're not impressed. You keep going backwards and complaining about the old things.

    You're no better than the guy that Richard banned. You're just on opposites sides. Just as he would not listen so you will not listen.

    You need to learn your humble little place and status in this big universe. You need to learn that God owns all things and can therefore do whatever He wants with it. Fortunately for us Christ has reversed all the curses against us. But you are not impressed. You prefer to complain that Christ was a man. So freakin what! If you were about to be raped and a person prevented it and saved you would you say, "Screw you you male dominant pig. I wanted a woman to save me."

    The the new covenant God who lives and works in me does not know the male dominance you speak about.

    Richard banned the male sexist here. The only sexist remaining here is a female, namely, YOU! That's right! You come across as a SEXIST plain and simple! What the hell do you think you are accomplishing anyway?


    KJ

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    The the new covenant God who lives and works in me does not know the male dominance you speak about.

    Richard banned the male sexist here. The only sexist remaining here is a female, namely, YOU! That's right! You come across as a SEXIST plain and simple! What the hell do you think you are accomplishing anyway?


    KJ
    Hey there KJ,

    The only people I have ever banned were those who could not restrain themselves sufficiently to allow for rational discourse. I do not bann people for views I disagree with, such as sexism, futurism, or whatever-ism. On the contrary, I think it is very valuable to have folks with different views clashing so we all can learn.

    Now you have made a very strange accusation. Rose is advocating equality between the sexes, not female domination. She has pointed out the plain and obvious fact that the Bible was written from a male-dominant point of view, and that this implies it cannot be considered the "Word of God" since God would not be a male-biased sexist.

    Can you quote a single word that Rose wrote that suggests she is biased towards women over men? If not, then please retract your false accusation.

    Thanks!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    You need to learn your humble little place and status in this big universe. You need to learn that God owns all things and can therefore do whatever He wants with it. Fortunately for us Christ has reversed all the curses against us. But you are not impressed. You prefer to complain that Christ was a man. So freakin what! If you were about to be raped and a person prevented it and saved you would you say, "Screw you you male dominant pig. I wanted a woman to save me."
    Yo, KJ!

    I don't recall any post where Rose "complained that Christ was a man." Can you please quote the exact post to support your accusation? If you can't find it, then please withdraw your statement.

    It seems like you are projecting your own imagination upon Rose. Words like "Screw you you male dominant pig" is a caricature of the stereotypical "man-hating femi-nazi." But Rose is nothing like that, and nothing in her posts would justify such a comment. Therefore, I must conclude that you are raging against your own imaginary "raging feminist" in your own head. So please pull you head out of where ever you have stuck it and either quote the actual words Rose had written or apologize for your false accusations and false characterizations.

    BTW - I find it ironic that you would put such words in her mouth after reprimanding me for that very act yesterday.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangaroo Jack View Post
    I am tired of speaking about the new covenant God to you only to have you keep referring back to the old things. I have shown you that the new covenant God poured out His Spirit on men and women indiscriminately and that both men and women were to use their gifts in the church indiscriminately. I have shown that men and women were to be silent indiscriminately for the sake of order. Yet you're not impressed. You keep going backwards and complaining about the old things.

    You're no better than the guy that Richard banned. You're just on opposites sides. Just as he would not listen so you will not listen.

    You need to learn your humble little place and status in this big universe. You need to learn that God owns all things and can therefore do whatever He wants with it. Fortunately for us Christ has reversed all the curses against us. But you are not impressed. You prefer to complain that Christ was a man. So freakin what! If you were about to be raped and a person prevented it and saved you would you say, "Screw you you male dominant pig. I wanted a woman to save me."

    The the new covenant God who lives and works in me does not know the male dominance you speak about.

    Richard banned the male sexist here. The only sexist remaining here is a female, namely, YOU! That's right! You come across as a SEXIST plain and simple! What the hell do you think you are accomplishing anyway?


    KJ
    Well it looks like your male aggressiveness has shown its ugly head, which totally keeps you from seeing the truth! If you would calm down your male ego for a moment you would have noticed that all my points are directed at finding the truth about who wrote the Bible.

    There is an excellent book called The Chalice and the Blade which exemplifies the point I've been trying to make about the male dominator societal structure that was in place at the time the Bible was written; proving that the ideas of the hierarchical order of the male over female were already in place at that time, and just continued on with the male authors of the Bible. The one big thing that changed with the formation of the Bible was the change from belief in a pantheon of gods to one god, and that god is the male warrior god, Yahweh.

    Rose

    P.S.
    I wish someone could have a rational discourse with me, and give me some solid objections as to why my statements are in error.
    Last edited by Rose; 06-06-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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