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  1. #1
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    pdf on Isaiah - the bible

    I found a pdf that briefly talks about the similarities of Isaiah, known as the miniature bible and the bible itself:
    http://www.hacalumni.com/pdfs/osteen.pdf

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I found a pdf that briefly talks about the similarities of Isaiah, known as the miniature bible and the bible itself:
    http://www.hacalumni.com/pdfs/osteen.pdf
    That's a pretty good overview. Most of the links it mentions have also been documented on my site for many years. It's a pretty obvious pattern. I find it fascinating that not many folks seem to think it has much significance. Of course, I disagree with his hyper-fundamentalist conclusion that it is "solid proof that the KJB is INSPIRED Scripture." It does show that "something supernatural" is going on in the Bible (and yes, a few of the patterns are unique to the KJV, but most are found in any faithful translation), but if we accept that the Bible is inspired, then we know that God is "messing with us" because he put lots of contradictions and falsehoods in it. In other words, if the Bible really is the WORD OF GOD then we know that God Himself has made it perfectly clear that He wants us to think for ourselves because he designed the Bible to contradict itself and so self-destruct. Fascinating, ain't it?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's a pretty good overview. Most of the links it mentions have also been documented on my site for many years. It's a pretty obvious pattern. I find it fascinating that not many folks seem to think it has much significance. Of course, I disagree with his hyper-fundamentalist conclusion that it is "solid proof that the KJB is INSPIRED Scripture." It does show that "something supernatural" is going on in the Bible (and yes, a few of the patterns are unique to the KJV, but most are found in any faithful translation), but if we accept that the Bible is inspired, then we know that God is "messing with us" because he put lots of contradictions and falsehoods in it. In other words, if the Bible really is the WORD OF GOD then we know that God Himself has made it perfectly clear that He wants us to think for ourselves because he designed the Bible to contradict itself and so self-destruct. Fascinating, ain't it?
    I don't know what you're talking about. We have enough to guide us.
    2 Kings 22
    8 And Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it.
    9 And Shaphan the scribe came to the king, and brought the king word again, and said, Thy servants have gathered the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of them that do the work, that have the oversight of the house of the LORD.
    Wow. After all this time of the reign of kings the book of the law was lost. But God spoke through his prophets. My point is that God provides enough to guide us with.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I don't know what you're talking about. We have enough to guide us.
    Who are the "we" that are being properly guided? Catholics? Greek Orthodox? Jehovah's Witnesses? Christadelphians? Calvinists? Arminians? Futurists? Preterists? If it were sufficient to guide us, why are we so lost in divisions?

    But even so, you know what I was talking about. The question is not if there is enough to "guide" us. The question is if it is true to say that the Bible is the Word of God. If it is, then we are stuck with contradictions, falsehoods, and moral abominations attributed to God. Is that what we should believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Wow. After all this time of the reign of kings the book of the law was lost. But God spoke through his prophets. My point is that God provides enough to guide us with.
    Wow indeed. This makes me wonder if we know anything about the real history of Israel. Is it possible that they could have completely lost the Torah - the foundation of their theocracy - for years? I find that absolutely unbelievable. The priesthood was a continuous line from Moses and Aaron. How could they "lose the Torah?" There are lots of strange stories like this in the Bible. For example, how is it that Moses totally rejected the commandment of God for 40 years in the wilderness by not circumcising the children of Israel???
    Joshua 5:2 At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. 3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. 4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt. 5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
    How is it possible that devout Christians can choose to overlook these problems that saturate Scripture? God Himself explicitly delivered the entire tribe of Benjamin - including all the women and children - into the hands of the other tribes to be murdered (Judges 21). And he knew that they would then also murder all the Gibeonites except the virgins which they kidnapped and forced into sex-slavery to the remaining 600 soldiers of Benjamin! This is madness. It has nothing to do with the true God. And the fact that Christians choose to overlook these irrefutable facts shows that the Bible has corrupted their minds. If the Bible is really from God, it can be understood only as a test to see if we are willing to corrupt our minds in service to a false doctrine of Biblical inerrancy. How can Christians speak of worshiping Christ as the TRUTH if they deny what is plainly written in the Bible?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Who are the "we" that are being properly guided? Catholics? Greek Orthodox? Jehovah's Witnesses? Christadelphians? Calvinists? Arminians? Futurists? Preterists? If it were sufficient to guide us, why are we so lost in divisions?

    But even so, you know what I was talking about. The question is not if there is enough to "guide" us. The question is if it is true to say that the Bible is the Word of God. If it is, then we are stuck with contradictions, falsehoods, and moral abominations attributed to God. Is that what we should believe?


    Wow indeed. This makes me wonder if we know anything about the real history of Israel. Is it possible that they could have completely lost the Torah - the foundation of their theocracy - for years? I find that absolutely unbelievable. The priesthood was a continuous line from Moses and Aaron. How could they "lose the Torah?" There are lots of strange stories like this in the Bible. For example, how is it that Moses totally rejected the commandment of God for 40 years in the wilderness by not circumcising the children of Israel???
    At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. 3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. 4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt. 5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
    How is it possible that devout Christians can choose to overlook these problems that saturate Scripture? God Himself explicitly delivered the entire tribe of Benjamin - including all the women and children - into the hands of the other tribes to be murdered (). And he knew that they would then also murder all the Gibeonites except the virgins which they kidnapped and forced into sex-slavery to the remaining 600 soldiers of Benjamin! This is madness. It has nothing to do with the true God. And the fact that Christians choose to overlook these irrefutable facts shows that the Bible has corrupted their minds. If the Bible is really from God, it can be understood only as a test to see if we are willing to corrupt our minds in service to a false doctrine of Biblical inerrancy. How can Christians speak of worshiping Christ as the TRUTH if they deny what is plainly written in the Bible?
    I doubt the bible was available to them because they always looked for signs, not knowing what God's will is.

    Deuteronomy talks about the death of Moses. So it must have been written or completed after they have entered the land of Canaan.

    The tribe of Benjamin were entirely sexually immoral.That was why they were debating whether to eliminate them all or let them live. It could be that all the tribes of Israel would be affected by this immorality if Benjamin was spared.

    Circumcision:
    Yeah that is strange.
    John 7
    22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
    23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

    Acts 15
    5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

    Acts 21
    21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
    But don't forget Moses was raised in Pharaoh's palace. And it seems that the Hebrew male children weren't circumcised because of the persecution, since they had to be circumcised on the 8th day. But it seems that Moses wasn't used to circumcision. He got circumcised after getting married, after 40 years old. And the next mentioning of circumcision is in the land of Canaan.

    But how could the bible be faulty? It's not what do you find wrong in this I don't understand.

    I do wonder certain things though. Was the Septuagint available to the west from 400AD -1400AD? Or did they have only the Masoretic Text?

    Who was the one who said that either our bible was corrupt or we are not Christians? Erasmus? So had Jerome made faithful copies in 400AD?
    Last edited by gilgal; 05-04-2011 at 03:05 PM.

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