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  1. #1
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    Isaiah 11 Genesis 11 and Daniel 11

    A small finding:
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    Isaiah 11
    1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

    Daniel 11
    7 But out of a branch of her root shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:

    Romans 11
    16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
    17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    Genesis 11
    2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

    Isaiah 11
    11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
    Last edited by gilgal; 02-27-2011 at 06:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    Notice that after Solomon Israel was divided between the North (10 tribes ) and the South (2 tribes, Judah and Benjamin. Jerusalem is, I believe partly in Judah and partly in Benjamin).

    And so it is with Macedonia. Actually it was divided into 4 and Seleucid was occupying the east but compared to Ptolimais Seleucid was in the North:
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    2. south
    Daniel 11
    1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.
    2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
    3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
    4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
    5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.
    6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.
    7 But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:
    8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
    9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.
    10 But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress.
    11 And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand.
    12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.
    13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches.
    14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.
    15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.
    16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.
    17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.
    18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.
    19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.
    20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
    21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
    22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
    23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
    24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
    25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
    26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
    27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
    28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
    29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
    30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
    34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
    35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
    36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
    37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
    38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
    39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
    40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
    41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
    42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
    43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
    44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
    45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
    And the focus of Daniel 11 was between the North and the South just as 1Kings the 11th book. I wonder how much Daniel 11 and 1Kings have in common.
    And the book of Daniel ends with the 12th chapter just as 2Kings (1 and 2 Chronicles are simply repetitions from the perspective of the kings of Judah whereas the 1 and 2 Kings are the perspective of the Northern Israel.)

  3. #3
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    Words Searched For:
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    Jeremiah 11
    16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

    Romans 11
    16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
    17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    Last edited by gilgal; 02-27-2011 at 06:35 PM.

  4. #4
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    Words Searched For:
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    Isaiah 11
    1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

    Jeremiah 33
    15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
    Last edited by gilgal; 12-03-2012 at 12:30 AM.

  5. #5
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    Jeremiah 11
    10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

    Jeremiah 33
    20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
    21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

    Zechariah 11
    10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
    11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

  6. #6
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    Branch: נצר netser
    This is where the name Nazareth comes from.

  7. #7
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    Also olive tree is mentioned Jeremiah 11, Romans 11, and Revelation 11.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Also olive tree is mentioned Jeremiah 11, Romans 11, and Revelation 11.
    I was always strongly impressed by the correlation between Romans 11 and Revelation 11. The meaning of the two olive trees is defined in Romans 11 as representing the Jews (cultivated olive tree) and Gentiles (wild olive tree). If this same meaning is applied to Revelation 11, then we have an answer to the question that has been debated for 2000 years - who are the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11? They are identified as the "two olive trees." Are they a symbolic representation of the witness of the Jews and the Gentiles? Or the Old and New Covenants? Or do all these ideas overlap? I find it interesting that the form of the Number 11 reflects the concept of two witnesses that stand side by side: 1 - 1. There also are a lot of connections with Book 11 (1 Kings).
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I was always strongly impressed by the correlation between Romans 11 and Revelation 11. The meaning of the two olive trees is defined in Romans 11 as representing the Jews (cultivated olive tree) and Gentiles (wild olive tree). If this same meaning is applied to Revelation 11, then we have an answer to the question that has been debated for 2000 years - who are the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11? The are identified as the "two olive trees." Are they a symbolic representation of the witness of the Jews and the Gentiles? Or the Old and New Covenants? Or do all these ideas overlap? I find it interesting that the form of the Number 11 reflects the concept of two witnesses that stand side by side: 1 - 1. There also are a lot of connections with Book 11 (1 Kings).
    It may have symbolic significance of the 2 olive trees representing Jews (as the green olive tree) and the gentiles (as the black olive tree), but Revelation 11 says that the beast will kill them and after 3 1/2 days they will resurrect. So I have to take this literally.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    It may have symbolic significance of the 2 olive trees representing Jews (as the green olive tree) and the gentiles (as the black olive tree), but Revelation 11 says that the beast will kill them and after 3 1/2 days they will resurrect. So I have to take this literally.
    How does that mean you must take them literally? Revelation is the most symbolic book in the Bible. There is great confusion over the meaning of the word "literal." I've been explaining this since I began this forum back in June of 2007. One of the first threads I started was called Symbols and Reality in Revelation where I said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    In our conversation concerning the Rapture, Joel and I ran into the question of what is "literal" or "real" versus what is "symbolic" in the Book of Revelation. Here is his post that prompted:

    If you would be so inclined to itemize sections to the Revelation, and specify as to "real" vs. "symbolic", I would surely participate. For example, I see the seven churches as 7 literal churches that will exist at a future time. From a symbolic viewpoint, the 7 churches may represent 7 different church "ages" which I do not hold as representative.
    The first thing to clear up is the confusion between "real" vs. "symbolic". I think we need to use the words "literal" vs. "symbolic" since otherwise we will be saying that the realities God signifies in symbol are somehow "less real" than the realities He signifies in literal descriptive language. For example, John 11:11-14 -
    11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
    So the Bible teaches that one the same reality can be referenced with either literal or symbolic language. Neither is more "real" than the other.

    Thus, I will try to give a broad overview of what I think is "literal" vs. "Symbolic" in Revelation.

    1) The seven churches to whom John wrote were literal churches that existed in the first century. The churches he named actually received his letter which we now know as the "Book of Revelation."

    2) The Blessing we receive reading or hearing revelation is a literal blessing.

    3) The Sword coming from His mouth is a symbol of His Word, the Word of God.

    4) The Seven Candlesticks are symbols of the seven literal Churches, as stated in the text.

    5) The Slain Lamb is a symbol of Jesus Christ who literally died for us.

    6) The number 666 is a symbol of those who belong to Satan. It marks those who server him with their actions (hand) and minds (forehead).

    7) The "name of my father written on their foreheads" is a symbol for those sealed by God, whose Minds (forehead) are "stayed on Him".

    8) The great Red Dragon (Rev 17) is a symbol of Rome.

    9) The 144,000 is a symbol of the Elect. Note that this coheres with the astounding gematria of The Elect = 144 = 12 x 12! The amazing thing here is that the correlation of the Elect with the Number 12 originated in the OT 12 tribes, but is here manifest and compounded as 12 x 12 in the NT Greek gematria. Truly astounding evidence that God designed both the Greek and Hebrew languages. It also coheres with the symbolic interpretation of the 144,000.

    I think almost everything from Rev 4 onward is symbolic.

    Here is my general take on the book: Given that Revelation is primarily a symbolic book, we should be extremely careful not to misread God's symbols as literal descriptive prose unless He has given a clear indication that such was His intent.

    Looking forward to working with you all on this most important topic!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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