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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumberX View Post
    Yeah I like to search for leper, leprosy and contagious (that's what leprosy is).
    That's TSoR'aTH (90-200-70-400). Don't know why, but suddenly I remember this post of mine.
    It depend where you want to search:
    http://www.gbgrafix.com/thewheelofgo...3&tochapter=13

    Correct the book and chapter section if you wish.

    Keep in mind that there are some place, as you read in the text above you'll notice that there are two kinds of brackets {} and [] and show a word spelled in two different ways. This might mess up the els. So if the els is short it's safer. I have to fix that giving the searcher the ability to choose.

    I could use some help in this web page if you have the patience and knowledge in coding NumberX. It's not so much different than VB. I've taken VB courses in the past. Javascript and PHP have many things in common. Let me know if you're interested.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by why1942 View Post
    Hi,

    I'm new to the forum and had a question about Chuck Missler's claim on the TORH / YHVH code in the first five books of the bible.

    He (and others) claim that the word TORH is found in ELS of 50 (49 spaces between letters) in Genesis and Exodus. Likewise, the word, spelled backwards (HROT), is found in Numbers and Deuteronomy in ELS of 50. In Leviticus, TORH is not found, but YHVH is located in ELS at 8 (or 7 spaces between letters). They claim that the Torah always points to the name of God.

    I used The Keys to the Bible Software to confirm the occurrences in Genesis and Exodus. Manually looking at the grid of Genesis 1, I find at the first "T" the code TORH at 50 ELS (49 spaces). Exodus 1 is exactly the same.

    My problems begin when I go to Numbers. It is no longer the first "H" that I come to, but the 3rd "H" where TORH is spelled in reverse, in ELS of 50 (49 spaces). Then going to Deuteronomy, I get lost. HROT doesn't show up at an ELS of 50 until chapter 5:16.

    I then go to Leviticus, and YHVH is found there at an ELS of 8 (7 spaces between letters) starting with the first "Y".

    When I sit back and look at this information, Missler's hypothesis is tentatively affirmed. The word TORH is found in Genesis and Exodus. The word HORT is found in Numbers and Deuteronomy (albeit not perfectly arranged as in Genesis and Exodus). In addition, the word YHVH is found in Leviticus at the prescribed interval.

    Trouble arises for this hypothesis, though, on further searches. I also found TORH and HROT at 50 ELS in all 5 books (in fact in all the OT books). I also found YHVH throughout the OT at 8 ELS. This means that not only does the Torah point to YHVH, it also points away from it at the same time.

    Further, when I open the ELS sequences from 2 to 50 or above, all these words and word orders are found throughout the OT thousands of times. Wouldn't this point to the conclusion that these codes are not supernatural in origin, but simply random patterns? (I'm not referring to any other bible codes, just this Torah code and the claim that the Torah always points to the name of God).

    I will add that I am not a skeptic or a non-believer. I am simply trying to understand the evidence I have found from my own inquiry into the matter.

    Thank you for any help you can provide,

    why1942
    I have read somewhere that the scribes who copied the Torah would count letters to make sure that they haven't missed a letter. So counting and discovering els patterns shouldn't be a strange thing to them. I have Missler's book called the Cosmic Codes. While he talks about many interesting things from the Chinese Alphabet, Daniel's writing on the wall, the bible codes...(I don't remember if Genesis 22-24 was mentioned, the Akida, is this how it's spelled?) the way the rabbis and scholars interpreted that text and how it relates to Jesus Christ, the "Gospel in Genesis" the names of Genesis 5... all interesting. But I notice he doesn't go that much into details. It's as if they're in it to make money not a work of a true scholar.

    Also I wonder many things about texts. The Torah is said to be the best preserved text compared to the rest of the bible. A copy was left in the Ark of the Covenant. But we don't have the Ark. Revelation 11 says that it was in heaven. On the other hand the Ethiopians claim to have it (or a copy of the Ark). Ron Wyatt claimed to have found the Ark under the Temple. Michael Rood supported that claim and says that the blood of Jesus was spilled on the Ark when the earthquake happened. I don't know. But we should take the Revelation 11 more seriously.

    But in Josiah's time the Torah was found while cleaning the temple showing that it was lost for a period.

    But if we are not willing to believe the torah->torah-> yhwh<-harot<-harot because, obviously there are many els findings of torah in the TORAH (1st 5 books). The 1st 2 books, Genesis and Exodus, to me is amazing enough that with 50-letter skips spells out TORH, torah. But I also accept that sometimes our anticipations on patterns don't work. Because God has his ways. Looking ourselves in the mirror, our bodies are not 100% symmetrical either. You may have a birth mark on one side and don't have it on the other...Some people are right-handed and some left-handed...So the bible shouldn't be expected to be 100% symmetrical either. But God has his ways.

  3. #13
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    Ah this is what this thread is about. I found it by Google and we can easely count and check the findings for ourselves in the text if we want. See http://www.ancientpaths.org/APJTbiblecode.html. "For example, if you start with Gen. 1:1" etc.

    Here is the first finding on the page of Gilgal, the word Torah is written in red, you have to wait a few seconds and scroll down.
    Now I understand the page also better. You have to enter the text in the search fields, click "search this", wait for the page to load, scroll down and click the els (50 in this case) and wait again a few seconds and then the red text is shown where you are looking for. And you can copy and pase the link. This manual is necessary I think, or the first top left input field is not necessary.

    Really nice, to be able to do so.

    This is the second finding, Torah at els of 50 in the second book.

    This is Torah at els of 50 in the fourth book and here it is in the fifth book. But these two had to be spelled backwards, did not look for that, you do that.

    I only searched in the first three chapters of each book by the way.
    Last edited by NumberX; 02-16-2011 at 04:53 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumberX View Post
    Ah this is what this thread is about. I found it by Google and we can easely count and check the findings for ourselves in the text if we want. See http://www.ancientpaths.org/APJTbiblecode.html. "For example, if you start with Gen. 1:1" etc.

    Here is the first finding on the page of Gilgal, the word Torah is written in red, you have to wait a few seconds and scroll down.
    Now I understand the page also better. You have to enter the text in the search fields, click "search this", wait for the page to load, scroll down and click the els (50 in this case) and wait again a few seconds and then the red text is shown where you are looking for. And you can copy and pase the link. This manual is necessary I think, or the first top left input field is not necessary.

    Really nice, to be able to do so.

    This is the second finding, Torah at els of 50 in the second book.

    This is Torah at els of 50 in the fourth book and here it is in the fifth book. But these two had to be spelled backwards, did not look for that, you do that.

    I only searched in the first three chapters of each book by the way.
    There's something wrong with the coding that the first chapters of the last two books don't show the results properly.

    But this concept:
    TORH-->TORH-->YHWH<--HROT<--HROT
    can be seen in this:
    Mat 1:1 βίβλος γενέσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ υἱοῦ Δαυὶδ υἱοῦ Ἀβραάμ -->Jesus Christ<--
    Genesis 1:1
    בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ׃
    The Testaments point to Jesus Christ.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by why1942 View Post
    Hi Richard,

    After I made my post, I bowed to my curiosity and skimmed the Bible Wheel website, including downloading your book. I would be happy to read through it and provide feedback.

    Would you like my responses to be available to the public (on the forum) or privately by email? Along those lines, would you grant me permission to post my review of your book on my website as one of my research projects (I would also provide a link to your book and website)? If not, I would still be happy to review it privately.
    Public would be best by far. I delight in serious reviews of my work, and there are far too few of them out there. (Almost none, actually. ) You have permission to post reviews, criticisms, synopses, or whatever you like from my work on your site, with the only condition being that you properly cite the source and notify me so I can respond, of course. Other than that, go to it! You can copy/paste, use my graphics, whatever. All in good faith, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by why1942 View Post
    I agree with you about the can of worms. I used to think that I had only 1st hand doctrinal beliefs, but came to the realization that most if not all of my beliefs are 2nd or 3rd hand. I've never fit well with traditional Christian denominationalism (primarily Baptist, but also Church of Christ, some independent progressive churches, etc) there always seems to be something in their teaching/doctrine that they obsessively focus on that is extra-biblical.
    I had always been "non-denominational" myself until I finally quit going to churches a few years ago. I used to be pretty fundamentalistic, as you can see by my old "statement of faith":
    Are you a Christian? Protestant? Catholic?

    Praise God, I am a man saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesian 2:8). I am a non-denominational blood-bought Bible-believing Trinitarian Christian. I believe that the true "faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3) is well stated in the early creeds of the church that Christ founded.
    I no longer call myself a Christian. I can't even conceive of a "personal" Zeus-style god who intervenes in human affairs. Too much evidence against it. And as it turns out, my only two solid reasons for thinking there is anything to Christianity are 1) the witness of the fulfilled prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, and 2) The witness of the supernatural design of the Scripture provided by the Bible Wheel. The irony is that neither of those witnesses mean anything at all to the vast majority of Christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by why1942 View Post
    At any rate, I will provide my feedback soon. Point of interest,though. You described the bible as a "supernatural historical novel". Did you mean that you accept the idea that there is a supernatural realm (i.e. God exists) and he/she/it has communicated with/to us via a historical novel (i.e. providing spiritual guidance through fictional stories) or do you mean that you discount a supernatural realm (i.e. no actual God) and consider the bible to be a creation of human intellect, no different than the writings of other religions (or John Grisham's latest novel)?

    The way you describe your beliefs (as I understand it) sounds very similar to a Deistic world-view.
    Very pertinent questions!

    I'm currently trying to figure out what I believe. I've eliminated traditional Christian theism as incoherent and hence impossible. It is also unbiblical. Most Christians believe in the philosophical theism created by the scholastic theologians in the middle ages. That "god" is not much like anything we see of the God of the Bible. Their extreme philosophical categories, like the doctrine that God is "absolutely simple" lead absurdities. Even the doctrine of God's absolute omniscience leads directly to a non-personal God, because such a God was never able to make a decision since he already knew what he would choose before he chose it. That god is some sort of "abstract principle" or "law of nature." But certainly nothing like a person that can love and be loved.

    I've got a lot more to say - that is, to work out while thinking out loud - but I got to go run an errand.

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Public would be best by far. I delight in serious reviews of my work, and there are far too few of them out there. (Almost none, actually. :mad:) You have permission to post reviews, criticisms, synopses, or whatever you like from my work on your site, with the only condition being that you properly cite the source and notify me so I can respond, of course. Other than that, go to it! You can copy/paste, use my graphics, whatever. All in good faith, of course. :thumb:


    I had always been "non-denominational" myself until I finally quit going to churches a few years ago. I used to be pretty fundamentalistic, as you can see by my old "statement of faith":
    Are you a Christian? Protestant? Catholic?

    Praise God, I am a man saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesian 2:8). I am a non-denominational blood-bought Bible-believing Trinitarian Christian. I believe that the true "faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3) is well stated in the early creeds of the church that Christ founded.
    I no longer call myself a Christian. I can't even conceive of a "personal" Zeus-style god who intervenes in human affairs. Too much evidence against it. And as it turns out, my only two solid reasons for thinking there is anything to Christianity are 1) the witness of the fulfilled prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, and 2) The witness of the supernatural design of the Scripture provided by the Bible Wheel. The irony is that neither of those witnesses mean anything at all to the vast majority of Christians.


    Very pertinent questions! :thumb:

    I'm currently trying to figure out what I believe. I've eliminated traditional Christian theism as incoherent and hence impossible. It is also unbiblical. Most Christians believe in the philosophical theism created by the scholastic theologians in the middle ages. That "god" is not much like anything we see of the God of the Bible. Their extreme philosophical categories, like the doctrine that God is "absolutely simple" lead absurdities. Even the doctrine of God's absolute omniscience leads directly to a non-personal God, because such a God was never able to make a decision since he already knew what he would choose before he chose it. That god is some sort of "abstract principle" or "law of nature." But certainly nothing like a person that can love and be loved.

    I've got a lot more to say - that is, to work out while thinking out loud - but I got to go run an errand.

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    I question how God answers prayer. For instance God had appeared in Acts to Paul after he got arrested in Jerusalem in a dream that he must stand before Ceasar in Rome. But there was a storm and the ship was wrecked. But because God promised Paul to get there alive he was confident that he wouldn't die.

    I think God promised to David to be king before he was persecuted by Saul and was always victorious in battles, though I don't know where in 1 Samuel God promised him. On the other hand Uriah the Hittite had the same heart towards God but David killed him and God didn't protect Uriah. But God cursed David because of that.

    Now what kind of assurance do WE have that when we pray for something that God will do it?

    There were occasions that when I was looking for a few jobs I prayed for it and ALMOST got the job but then slipped away for different reasons.

    I know someone who won scholarships in school since he prayed but I don't think he has a job in his field.

    In the gospels it was said that if we ask for an egg we won't get a serpent...Maybe we stopped asking.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I question how God answers prayer. For instance God had appeared in Acts to Paul after he got arrested in Jerusalem in a dream that he must stand before Ceasar in Rome. But there was a storm and the ship was wrecked. But because God promised Paul to get there alive he was confident that he wouldn't die.

    I think God promised to David to be king before he was persecuted by Saul and was always victorious in battles, though I don't know where in 1 Samuel God promised him. On the other hand Uriah the Hittite had the same heart towards God but David killed him and God didn't protect Uriah. But God cursed David because of that.
    Those events bring up some very serious questions about the "morality" of God's behavior. Why did God kill an innocent child because of his father's sin? Why did God allow David to live? The law said that he should be stoned, not only for adultery but also for murder. And why did God kill 70,000 men of Israel as punishment for Davids sin of taking a census of his armies?

    None of it makes any moral sense at all. No one should follow God as a moral example! Think about it! We humans know that we can not follow the example set by God himself in the Bible??? What's up with that? God does not follow his own rules. His actions appear to be unjust.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Now what kind of assurance do WE have that when we pray for something that God will do it?
    Absolutely NONE.

    Now there was a time when I believed God answered prayers, and it may be true that he did. But I never have had any assurance that he would answer any prayer. None whatsoever. And you know why? Because he almost never answers prayers, and that's just the plain truth that any honest person must admit. It's very easy to prove. Keep a record of "prayer requests" and you will see that they are almost never answered, and that the ones that are "answered" could just as well be mere coincidence.

    For example, years ago when I was single I met a lot of single Christian women who were constantly praying for God to give them a mate. I talked to women who had been faithfully waiting for years. They were already past the flower of their age, and God did not answer them.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    There were occasions that when I was looking for a few jobs I prayed for it and ALMOST got the job but then slipped away for different reasons.

    I know someone who won scholarships in school since he prayed but I don't think he has a job in his field.
    That's because God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.


    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    In the gospels it was said that if we ask for an egg we won't get a serpent...Maybe we stopped asking.
    It's not because we stopped asking. Folks have asked for their prayers to be answered for years and got no response from God. The Bible also says that when two or three agree he will grant whatever is asked. Those words are false.

    I think it's best to be brutally honest. Folks claim that the Bible is the Word of God that teaches absolute truth. Therefore, we would be total fools to not speak the truth about our experience with that book. It does not deliver what it promises.

    Now consider: The primary promise of the Bible is that if you pray, then Jesus will save your soul. But we know no other prayers are ever answered, so why should we believe that one?

    Truth is harsh.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Those events bring up some very serious questions about the "morality" of God's behavior. Why did God kill an innocent child because of his father's sin? Why did God allow David to live? The law said that he should be stoned, not only for adultery but also for murder. And why did God kill 70,000 men of Israel as punishment for Davids sin of taking a census of his armies?

    None of it makes any moral sense at all. No one should follow God as a moral example! Think about it! We humans know that we can not follow the example set by God himself in the Bible??? What's up with that? God does not follow his own rules. His actions appear to be unjust.


    Absolutely NONE.

    Now there was a time when I believed God answered prayers, and it may be true that he did. But I never have had any assurance that he would answer any prayer. None whatsoever. And you know why? Because he almost never answers prayers, and that's just the plain truth that any honest person must admit. It's very easy to prove. Keep a record of "prayer requests" and you will see that they are almost never answered, and that the ones that are "answered" could just as well be mere coincidence.

    For example, years ago when I was single I met a lot of single Christian women who were constantly praying for God to give them a mate. I talked to women who had been faithfully waiting for years. They were already past the flower of their age, and God did not answer them.


    That's because God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.



    It's not because we stopped asking. Folks have asked for their prayers to be answered for years and got no response from God. The Bible also says that when two or three agree he will grant whatever is asked. Those words are false.

    I think it's best to be brutally honest. Folks claim that the Bible is the Word of God that teaches absolute truth. Therefore, we would be total fools to not speak the truth about our experience with that book. It does not deliver what it promises.

    Now consider: The primary promise of the Bible is that if you pray, then Jesus will save your soul. But we know no other prayers are ever answered, so why should we believe that one?

    Truth is harsh.
    Well God's promises cause his punishment to be delayed. Look at Rachel who stole the Teraphim from his father. Jacob unknowingly cursed the person who did that saying, "Let hime not live". It turned out to be his beloved wife who was pregnant with Benoni/Benjamin and sitting on the idols while his father was searching out her tent.

    But BECAUSE God promised her another son, which is why her firstborn was named Joseph, meaning "he will add" another son to her her death was delayed. But when she gave birth she had a hard labor that she died of the pain. Benoni (son of sorrows) and Benjamin (son of the right hand) reflects Jesus Christ. But God's promise and punishment is shown on Rachel.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Public would be best by far. I delight in serious reviews of my work, and there are far too few of them out there. (Almost none, actually. ) You have permission to post reviews, criticisms, synopses, or whatever you like from my work on your site, with the only condition being that you properly cite the source and notify me so I can respond, of course. Other than that, go to it! You can copy/paste, use my graphics, whatever. All in good faith, of course.


    I had always been "non-denominational" myself until I finally quit going to churches a few years ago. I used to be pretty fundamentalistic, as you can see by my old "statement of faith":
    Are you a Christian? Protestant? Catholic?

    Praise God, I am a man saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesian 2:8). I am a non-denominational blood-bought Bible-believing Trinitarian Christian. I believe that the true "faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3) is well stated in the early creeds of the church that Christ founded.
    I no longer call myself a Christian. I can't even conceive of a "personal" Zeus-style god who intervenes in human affairs. Too much evidence against it. And as it turns out, my only two solid reasons for thinking there is anything to Christianity are 1) the witness of the fulfilled prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, and 2) The witness of the supernatural design of the Scripture provided by the Bible Wheel. The irony is that neither of those witnesses mean anything at all to the vast majority of Christians.


    Very pertinent questions!

    I'm currently trying to figure out what I believe. I've eliminated traditional Christian theism as incoherent and hence impossible. It is also unbiblical. Most Christians believe in the philosophical theism created by the scholastic theologians in the middle ages. That "god" is not much like anything we see of the God of the Bible. Their extreme philosophical categories, like the doctrine that God is "absolutely simple" lead absurdities. Even the doctrine of God's absolute omniscience leads directly to a non-personal God, because such a God was never able to make a decision since he already knew what he would choose before he chose it. That god is some sort of "abstract principle" or "law of nature." But certainly nothing like a person that can love and be loved.

    I've got a lot more to say - that is, to work out while thinking out loud - but I got to go run an errand.

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    I am stunt by Richard's statement! I am beginning now to wonder if the Bible Wheel is God inspired. God will not inspire works of a non-Christian not to say the prayer of a non-Christian.

    Prayer is a hallmark of a Christian which is why Jesus encouraged us to pray, "OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME...". If prayer is useless, why are we encouraged to pray. Prayers come unanswered are due to many reasons, some are too profound....perhaps God has a better plan for us. I do have many answered and unanswered prayers and I am sure many of us have such experiences too. And whether my prayers went answered or unanswered, I always give thanks to Him and expects Him to do the best for me whatever the outcome. Prayer is related to faith, trust and love in God and an expression of our love and concern for fellow Christians and non-Christians.

    The Lord's Prayer is a powerful tool designed for Christians to prevent/protect us from temptation and from evil". It also entice and remind us to strive for His will and His kingdom, strive for God's knowledge (daily bread), forgive others so as to obtain forgiveness for our sins.

    9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

    “‘Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    10 your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us today our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
    but deliver us from the evil one.
    [b]’

    I am sure the BW is an answered prayer fulfilled and the work of a Christian...if not, should people trust the BW? I apologised in advance if I misunderstood your statement. Richard obviously needs our prayers

    Many Blessings.
    Last edited by CWH; 02-18-2011 at 03:44 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I am stunt by Richard's statement! I am beginning now to wonder if the Bible Wheel is God inspired. God will not inspire works of a non-Christian not to say the prayer of a non-Christian.
    Ha! That's hilarious Cheow.

    Your doubt about the Bible Wheel is nothing new. As far as I know (from years of reading your posts), you never thought it was inspired.

    And you seem to have missed my fundamental point. The Bible Wheel and Preterism are the only two verifiable factual witnesses to the truth of the Bible! The fulfillment in 70 AD is the only provable prophecy, and the Bible Wheel is the only proof of divine design of the whole book.

    This is very ironic. Almost all Christians reject or are ignorant of the only two things that personally give me reason to think there is something to the Bible.

    And your comment about whom God would use is false. There is no reason God would not use an unbeliever to accomplish whatever he wants. But your opinion is wrong anyway because I was a very fundamentalist Christian believer when I wrote the Bible Wheel book, as you can see in my former statement of faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Prayer is a hallmark of a Christian which is why Jesus encouraged us to pray, "OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME...". If prayer is useless, why are we encouraged to pray. Prayers come unanswered are due to many reasons, some are too profound....perhaps God has a better plan for us. I do have many answered and unanswered prayers and I am sure many of us have such experiences too. And whether my prayers went answered or unanswered, I always give thanks to Him and expects Him to do the best for me whatever the outcome. Prayer is related to faith, trust and love in God and an expression of our love and concern for fellow Christians and non-Christians.
    You are absolutely correct that "prayer is a hallmark of a Christian." Unfortunately, that has very bad implications when we realize that God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers. I explained this in the post just before yours in answer to gilgal:

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Now there was a time when I believed God answered prayers, and it may be true that he did. But I never have had any assurance that he would answer any prayer. None whatsoever. And you know why? Because he almost never answers prayers, and that's just the plain truth that any honest person must admit. It's very easy to prove. Keep a record of "prayer requests" and you will see that they are almost never answered, and that the ones that are "answered" could just as well be mere coincidence.

    For example, years ago when I was single I met a lot of single Christian women who were constantly praying for God to give them a mate. I talked to women who had been faithfully waiting for years. They were already past the flower of their age, and God did not answer them.

    That's because God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
    Your explanation about why God usually doesn't answer prayer only confirms my point that God usually doesn't answer prayer. But please note that I admit he may have answered some prayers.

    Now the use of prayer as a "an expression of our love and concern for fellow Christians and non-Christians" is not the kind of prayer I am talking about. Unbelievers who never pray say things like "our thoughts and prayers are with you" when someone is suffering. It's just a way of talking. It has nothing to do with the question of whether or not God really answers prayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I am sure the BW is an answered prayer fulfilled and the work of a Christian...if not, should people trust the BW? I apologised in advance if I misunderstood your statement. Richard obviously needs our prayers

    Many Blessings.
    Thanks for your prayers Cheow, but I would really like to know precisely what you are praying for. Please be specific. Are you praying that I will start to believe that God really does answer a significant number of prayers? Are you praying that I will quit questioning the truth of the Bible? Are you praying I will quit questioning the traditional concepts of God? What exactly are you praying for?

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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