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  1. #1

    What is "This Generation?"

    The phrase, "this generation," is tossed back and forth between preterist and futurist. How did Christ explain what is meant?



    Matthew 24:32-35 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.


    He instructs us to....Learn a parable of the fig tree. That is the key to knowing who "this generation" is. Those of that generation will see all things spoken of in that chapter come to pass and...know that the end is very close. Among them are...the end of the world/age and the sign of His coming.

    Where is the parable of the fig tree taught?



    Jeremiah 24:1-3 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon. One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad. Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

    A basket of very evil figs and a basket of good figs.


    24:4-7 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good. For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up. And I will give them an heart to know Me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart.

    After being taken captive...when was the "house of Judah," the Jews returned "again to this land?" May 14, 1948...Pentecost. The state of Israel was declared. The basket of good figs were set out amidst the basket of very evil figs.

    24:8-10 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt: And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them. And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.


    Look at the evil figs today.

    That was the parable of the fig tree and it contains the key to knowing the generation Christ taught of, the "this generation." It is the last generation but, is it counted from the beginning of WW11, 9/1/1939, or when Israel was declared a state, in 1948? Biblical generations are 40, 70 and 120 years.
    .

  2. #2
    Whirlwind wrote,

    Matthew 24:32-35 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
    Hi Whirlwind, question, how do you see the Olivet Discourse played out?

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    The phrase, "this generation," is tossed back and forth between preterist and futurist. How did Christ explain what is meant?

    Matthew 24:32-35 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

    He instructs us to....Learn a parable of the fig tree. That is the key to knowing who "this generation" is. Those of that generation will see all things spoken of in that chapter come to pass and...know that the end is very close. Among them are...the end of the world/age and the sign of His coming.

    Where is the parable of the fig tree taught?
    There are so many errors in this interpretation it seems best to list them by number:

    1) There is no mention of any "tree" in the Parable of the Good and Bad Figs in Jeremiah! So right off the bat, you've got it wrong. Jeremiah teaches nothing about any "Parable of the Fig Tree." It is the "Parable of the Good and Bad Figs" which is an entirely different topic. Jesus said nothing about the quality of any figs in his parable.

    2) The prophecy in Jeremiah 24 was given during the Babylonian exile and God's promise to return them to the land of Judah was fulfilled and recorded in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. This is the most common error amongst Futurists. They ignore the context, and hence, the meaning, of the prophecies that have been fulfilled. The really pathetic fact is that the text explicitly states this and yet the Futurists just ignore it as if we literally blind!
    Jeremiah 24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good. 6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up
    The Lord God Almighty explicitly declared that he is talking about those sent into Babylon in the 6th century BC, and his promise was fulfilled when he raised up Cyrus and let the Jews return. Your application of this passage to the future is absurd in the extreme. It is false and misleading.

    3) There is nothing in the "Parable of the Fig Tree" that suggests the meaning was contained in the kind of tree. Indeed, the parallel passage in Luke directly contradicts your interpretation because it speaks not only of a "fig" tree, but of "all trees."
    Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
    Note also that there is no mention of any "parable of the fig tree."

    The meaning of the parable is quite plain and obvious. Just as we know summer is near when trees (in general) begin to put forth leaves, so the first century Christians would know when the destruction of the Temple was near when the events Christ predicted began to happen.

    4) There is nothing in the context of the "Parable of the Trees" that would change the meaning of "this generation" into something other than the meaning it has everywhere else in the NT, namely, the first century generation to whom Christ spoke. The attempt to force a false meaning onto these words is just another word game characteristic of all futurists who must deny what the Bible actually states in order for their theories to work. The Futurist arguments on this point are exceedingly weak, even by the low Futurist standards. See, for example, my article Refutation of "Ten Reasons 'This Generation' Doesn't Mean My First Century Audience.

    5) You made another false application to future Israel when you highlighted the prophecy that says "and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart." The NT confirms that this prophecy was indeed about Israel, specifically the faithful remnant of Israel who were the first members of the Church. It is fulfilled in the Church, the body of all believers:
    2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    There is only ONE "people of God."

    Bottom Line: Your entire interpretation is fundamentally flawed on multiple points. It has no merit whatsoever.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Hi Whirlwind, question, how do you see the Olivet Discourse played out?

    God bless---Twospirits


    When the disciples asked about the end of the world....


    Matthew 24:3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    His first warning was....

    24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


    Many come in His name, saying they are Christian...perhaps even belieivng they are. But they deceive many. Deception IS the great tribulation. He tells us there are wars, nations and kingdoms fighting, famine, earthquakes, etc. That is always part of this world...it is not a sign of the end but their increase is "the beginning of sorrows."

    The part that pertains to us, showing us our destiny as His elect is....

    24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.


    That is NOW,TODAY....we are here speaking, teaching, writing for His name's sake. That is our destiny as part of the many "two witnesses." (two groups of witnesses). It is important to know that the affliction and killing is spiritual. Have some witnessing for Him been literally killed? Yes and more will but overall we wage a spiritual battle. The killing is figurative....as in being banned from a forum, thrown out of a church group, families laughing at your teaching, etc.


    24:15-18 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


    We are given to see, understand, certain things at certain times. I now see the above as....when we see/understand that the abomination is no more than false prophets standing among God's children, standing "in the holy place," then...get out of Dodge! Leave their deception behind.

    His watchmen are "on the housetop" warning and they should not go back into their house to listen to anything being said. Rather...hear the Word of the Lord. And, we as His watchmen better be fully prepared...wearing our linen garments of righteousness because there will be no going back.

    24:19-20 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


    That refers to those impregnated with Satan's deception and nursing along his vile religion. The winter reference I believe is...not to be taken out of season, to wait and be His firstfruit properly matured. In other words, don't line up to be raptured away.


    24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


    The great tribulation is a time of great deception. The time has been shortened to the last five months of this age. It's gonn'a be a doozy. The only way to be kept from his "hour of temptation," is by knowing how it's going to happen. Knowing he'll be here in place of the Savior.


    24:23-25 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

    24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    And then....the wrath is spilled. The end of the age...as predicted when He sat on the mount of Olives looking toward the buildings of the temple.


    Bless you too TwoSpirits.




    .

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    There are so many errors in this interpretation it seems best to list them by number:

    1) There is no mention of any "tree" in the Parable of the Good and Bad Figs in Jeremiah! So right off the bat, you've got it wrong. Jeremiah teaches nothing about any "Parable of the Fig Tree." It is the "Parable of the Good and Bad Figs" which is an entirely different topic. Jesus said nothing about the quality of any figs in his parable.







    2) The prophecy in Jeremiah 24 was given during the Babylonian exile and God's promise to return them to the land of Judah was fulfilled and recorded in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. This is the most common error amongst Futurists. They ignore the context, and hence, the meaning, of the prophecies that have been fulfilled. The really pathetic fact is that the text explicitly states this and yet the Futurists just ignore it as if we literally blind!
    Jeremiah 24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good. 6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up
    The Lord God Almighty explicitly declared that he is talking about those sent into Babylon in the 6th century BC, and his promise was fulfilled when he raised up Cyrus and let the Jews return. Your application of this passage to the future is absurd in the extreme. It is false and misleading.


    And....were they not pulled down and not plucked up after their return from Babylon? Have they been safe in Jerusalem since that time?




    3) There is nothing in the "Parable of the Fig Tree" that suggests the meaning was contained in the kind of tree. Indeed, the parallel passage in Luke directly contradicts your interpretation because it speaks not only of a "fig" tree, but of "all trees."
    Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
    Note also that there is no mention of any "parable of the fig tree."

    Actually, the point about "all trees" is a good one to make. The rest of your statement I dismiss as...what is the word you use, oh yes, "absurd." What are Biblical trees? People are. Some are figs, some olives, some palms. It's a very important lesson.



    The meaning of the parable is quite plain and obvious. Just as we know summer is near when trees (in general) begin to put forth leaves, so the first century Christians would know when the destruction of the Temple was near when the events Christ predicted began to happen.


    Hold it there...you keep trying to slip that in and it's not factual. Christ DID NOT say the Temple would be destroyed.



    4) There is nothing in the context of the "Parable of the Trees" that would change the meaning of "this generation" into something other than the meaning it has everywhere else in the NT, namely, the first century generation to whom Christ spoke. The attempt to force a false meaning onto these words is just another word game characteristic of all futurists who must deny what the Bible actually states in order for their theories to work. The Futurist arguments on this point are exceedingly weak, even by the low Futurist standards. See, for example, my article Refutation of "Ten Reasons 'This Generation' Doesn't Mean My First Century Audience.


    I'm truly sorry you don't see what is written...truly.



    5) You made another false application to future Israel when you highlighted the prophecy that says "and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart." The NT confirms that this prophecy was indeed about Israel, specifically the faithful remnant of Israel who were the first members of the Church. It is fulfilled in the Church, the body of all believers:
    2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    There is only ONE "people of God."

    Bottom Line: Your entire interpretation is fundamentally flawed on multiple points. It has no merit whatsoever.

    All the best,

    Richard

    Again....truly sorry.




    .

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    I'm truly sorry you don't see what is written...truly.
    If it were "written" you would not need to constantly revert to word games and twisting and denial of what is written.

    I know what sanity is. I know how to establish truth and falsehood. And I know that you are refusing to discuss things rationally because the Bible directly contradicts your Futurist speculations.

    Very sad indeed.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    5) You made another false application to future Israel when you highlighted the prophecy that says "and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart." The NT confirms that this prophecy was indeed about Israel, specifically the faithful remnant of Israel who were the first members of the Church. It is fulfilled in the Church, the body of all believers:
    2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    There is only ONE "people of God."

    Bottom Line: Your entire interpretation is fundamentally flawed on multiple points. It has no merit whatsoever.

    All the best,

    Richard
    Again....truly sorry.
    The thing I'm sorry about is that you reject what is written without any explanation or justification. The Bible clearly shows that those prophecies were fulfilled in the Church which began with the faithful remnant of Israel that believed in Messiah.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    There are so many errors in this interpretation it seems best to list them by number:

    1) There is no mention of any "tree" in the Parable of the Good and Bad Figs in Jeremiah! So right off the bat, you've got it wrong. Jeremiah teaches nothing about any "Parable of the Fig Tree." It is the "Parable of the Good and Bad Figs" which is an entirely different topic. Jesus said nothing about the quality of any figs in his parable.

    2) The prophecy in Jeremiah 24 was given during the Babylonian exile and God's promise to return them to the land of Judah was fulfilled and recorded in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. This is the most common error amongst Futurists. They ignore the context, and hence, the meaning, of the prophecies that have been fulfilled. The really pathetic fact is that the text explicitly states this and yet the Futurists just ignore it as if we literally blind!
    Jeremiah 24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good. 6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up
    The Lord God Almighty explicitly declared that he is talking about those sent into Babylon in the 6th century BC, and his promise was fulfilled when he raised up Cyrus and let the Jews return. Your application of this passage to the future is absurd in the extreme. It is false and misleading.

    3) There is nothing in the "Parable of the Fig Tree" that suggests the meaning was contained in the kind of tree. Indeed, the parallel passage in Luke directly contradicts your interpretation because it speaks not only of a "fig" tree, but of "all trees."
    Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
    Note also that there is no mention of any "parable of the fig tree."

    The meaning of the parable is quite plain and obvious. Just as we know summer is near when trees (in general) begin to put forth leaves, so the first century Christians would know when the destruction of the Temple was near when the events Christ predicted began to happen.

    4) There is nothing in the context of the "Parable of the Trees" that would change the meaning of "this generation" into something other than the meaning it has everywhere else in the NT, namely, the first century generation to whom Christ spoke. The attempt to force a false meaning onto these words is just another word game characteristic of all futurists who must deny what the Bible actually states in order for their theories to work. The Futurist arguments on this point are exceedingly weak, even by the low Futurist standards. See, for example, my article Refutation of "Ten Reasons 'This Generation' Doesn't Mean My First Century Audience.

    5) You made another false application to future Israel when you highlighted the prophecy that says "and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart." The NT confirms that this prophecy was indeed about Israel, specifically the faithful remnant of Israel who were the first members of the Church. It is fulfilled in the Church, the body of all believers:
    2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    There is only ONE "people of God."

    Bottom Line: Your entire interpretation is fundamentally flawed on multiple points. It has no merit whatsoever.

    All the best,

    Richard
    Is the fig tree not Israel? and the figs not Jews? See for yourself:

    The word "fig" is mentioned in the Scriptures sixty-four times. THUS SAITH THE LORD, THE GOD OF ISRAEL; LIKE THESE GOOD FIGS, SO WILL I ACKNOWLEDGE THEM THAT ARE CARRIED AWAY CAPTIVE OF JUDAH, WHOM I HAVE SENT OUT OF THIS PLACE INTO THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS FOR THEIR GOOD-Jere 24:5. We see the word "figs," being used to represent the Jews that are carried away.

    THE LORD SHOWED ME, AND, BEHOLD, TWO BASKETS OF FIGS...ONE BASKET HAD VERY GOOD FIGS, EVEN LIKE THE FIGS THAT ARE FIRST RIPE: AND THE OTHER BASKET HAD VERY NAUGHTY FIGS, WHICH COULD NOT BE EATEN, THEY WERE SO BAD. THEN SAID THE LORD UNTO ME, WHAT SEEST THOU, JEREMIAH? AND I SAID, FIGS; THE GOOD FIGS, VERY GOOD; AND THE EVIL, VERY EVIL, THAT CANNOT BE EATEN, THEY ARE SO EVIL. AGAIN THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME UNTO ME, SAYING, THUS SAITH THE LORD, THE GOD OF ISRAEL; LIKE THESE GOOD FIGS, SO WILL I ACKNOWLEDGE THEM THAT ARE CARRIED AWAY CAPTIVE OF JUDAH, WHOM I HAVE SENT OUT OF THIS PLACE INTO THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS FOR THEIR GOOD. FOR I WILL SET MINE EYES UPON THEM FOR GOOD, AND I WILL BRING THEM AGAIN TO THIS LAND: AND I WILL BUILD THEM, AND NOT PULL THEM DOWN; AND I WILL PLANT THEM, AND NOT PLUCK THEM UP. AND I WILL GIVE THEM A HEART TO KNOW ME, THAT I AM THE LORD: AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD: FOR THEY SHALL RETURN UNTO ME WITH THEIR WHOLE HEART. AND AS THE EVIL FIGS, WHICH CANNOT BE EATEN, THEY ARE SO EVIL-Jere 24:1-8. The word "figs" is used here eight times denoting the Jews.

    NOW IN THE MORNING AS HE RETURNED INTO THE CITY, HE HUNGERED. AND WHEN HE SAW A FIG TREE IN THE WAY, HE CAME TO IT, AND FOUND NOTHING THEREON, BUT LEAVES ONLY, AND SAID UNTO IT, LET NO FRUIT GROW ON THEE HENCEFORWARD FOR EVER. AND PRESENTLY THE FIG TREE WITHERED AWAY-Mt 21:18,19; ref Mk 11:12-14,20,21. The fig tree withered away, as it was producing no fruit. It may be noted that the word "fig" here represents Israel, and the word "tree" represents nation.

    The nation of Israel did wither and was destroyed. Nevertheless, the nation of Israel was reborn and will fulfill God’s mission during the Tribulation.

    See my post which I have discussed with Carrie a few months ago:

    32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

    Now, what does "fig tree" means? what does "twigs get tender and leaves come out" means? what does "summer is near" means? If you can understand what it means then, you will understand what "this generation" was He talking about.

    What it means in my own interpretation is this:
    Now learn this, when you see Israel (fig tree) got its independence (twigs get tender and leaves come out) in May 14, 1948, you will know that summer is near (summer in UK starts from May 15, and generally in the Northern hemisphere, summer starts in June). Truly, I tell you, this generation (those who was born during Israel's independence) will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    The fig tree and all the trees represent the nation Israel and all the other countries. Now, Israel gain its independence in 1948 and there are many countries that gained their independence during those times after WW2. This is the period in which people began to realize the fallability of the colonial powers and they fought to gain their independence....India, Pakistan, Indonesia etc. Please see the long list of nations that gain indepedence after WW2:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...f_independence


    Many Blessings to all.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  9. #9
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    Is the fig tree not Israel? and the figs not Jews? See for yourself:

    The word "fig" is mentioned in the Scriptures sixty-four times. THUS SAITH THE LORD, THE GOD OF ISRAEL; LIKE THESE GOOD FIGS, SO WILL I ACKNOWLEDGE THEM THAT ARE CARRIED AWAY CAPTIVE OF JUDAH, WHOM I HAVE SENT OUT OF THIS PLACE INTO THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS FOR THEIR GOOD-Jere 24:5. We see the word "figs," being used to represent the Jews that are carried away.
    Yes, using Jeremiah's context, the "Figs" represented the inhabitants of Israel who were "good" figs, being carried away; and this happened.

    THE LORD SHOWED ME, AND, BEHOLD, TWO BASKETS OF FIGS...ONE BASKET HAD VERY GOOD FIGS, EVEN LIKE THE FIGS THAT ARE FIRST RIPE: AND THE OTHER BASKET HAD VERY NAUGHTY FIGS, WHICH COULD NOT BE EATEN, THEY WERE SO BAD. THEN SAID THE LORD UNTO ME, WHAT SEEST THOU, JEREMIAH? AND I SAID, FIGS; THE GOOD FIGS, VERY GOOD; AND THE EVIL, VERY EVIL, THAT CANNOT BE EATEN, THEY ARE SO EVIL. AGAIN THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME UNTO ME, SAYING, THUS SAITH THE LORD, THE GOD OF ISRAEL; LIKE THESE GOOD FIGS, SO WILL I ACKNOWLEDGE THEM THAT ARE CARRIED AWAY CAPTIVE OF JUDAH, WHOM I HAVE SENT OUT OF THIS PLACE INTO THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS FOR THEIR GOOD. FOR I WILL SET MINE EYES UPON THEM FOR GOOD, AND I WILL BRING THEM AGAIN TO THIS LAND: AND I WILL BUILD THEM, AND NOT PULL THEM DOWN; AND I WILL PLANT THEM, AND NOT PLUCK THEM UP. AND I WILL GIVE THEM A HEART TO KNOW ME, THAT I AM THE LORD: AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD: FOR THEY SHALL RETURN UNTO ME WITH THEIR WHOLE HEART. AND AS THE EVIL FIGS, WHICH CANNOT BE EATEN, THEY ARE SO EVIL-Jere 24:1-8. The word "figs" is used here eight times denoting the Jews.
    Notice how "figs" represented both the good and the bad of Israel. So both represented the "figs", yet one was good to the taste, and the other bad. But this does not support your interpretation of Matthew 24, "see the fig tree" and the "all the trees" per Luke's account.

    NOW IN THE MORNING AS HE RETURNED INTO THE CITY, HE HUNGERED. AND WHEN HE SAW A FIG TREE IN THE WAY, HE CAME TO IT, AND FOUND NOTHING THEREON, BUT LEAVES ONLY, AND SAID UNTO IT, LET NO FRUIT GROW ON THEE HENCEFORWARD FOR EVER. AND PRESENTLY THE FIG TREE WITHERED AWAY-Mt 21:18,19; ref Mk 11:12-14,20,21. The fig tree withered away, as it was producing no fruit. It may be noted that the word "fig" here represents Israel, and the word "tree" represents nation.
    That is a false inference caused by the preconceived Futurist idea. This was a miracle that caused the Fig tree to whither, thus representing Israel of the flesh (most anyways). But not all Israel were considered Israel; like bad figs, they were caused to whither. The "remnant" of Israel were carried away into the Gentile nations to preach the Gospels; thus, they represent the good Figs if you wish to apply Jeremiah's prophesy as an example. But the passage above taken from the New Testament need not be a prophesy of Israel's rebirth (Israel of the flesh). As we've seen in Revelation on another Thread, that Israel (of the flesh) was no longer to be found. Only the Israel of God would prove to be victorious, which consists of men of all races. Hence, no racial separation or discrimination is tolerated in the Israel of God; the one that bears good fruit. So your position of a regrowth or regathering of Israel of the flesh is fundamentally flawed, leaving you to infer conclusions from a false premises.

    The nation of Israel did wither and was destroyed. Nevertheless, the nation of Israel was reborn and will fulfill God’s mission during the Tribulation.
    Cow dung. This is soooo unscripted.

    See my post which I have discussed with Carrie a few months ago:

    32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
    You ignore the plain comparison of the text. The growth of the figs means that summer is near; beautiful days of nourishment and growth. Just as the summer approaching, given by signs of Spring, so too when they saw the things mentioned involving the temple's destruction (per the Context of Matthew 24), they would know that those events and His Parasouia was right at the door.

    The mistake you're making is that you ignore nearly all of Matthew 24, and limit "these things" as the figs trees growth. THIS is caused by your preconceived idea of a regathering of Israel of the flesh, which contradicts Revelation, as well as the New Testament passages from St. Paul who taught that the Israel that is blessed by God is the Israel of Christ Jesus, who is Israel. What you are promoting is fleshly based Israel that is no warranted in the New Testament; that was the Old Covenant my friend.

    Now, what does "fig tree" means? what does "twigs get tender and leaves come out" means? what does "summer is near" means? If you can understand what it means then, you will understand what "this generation" was He talking about.
    The fig tree is simply an example of the signs for Spring. It was the kingdom of Christ (The Church) that brought forth the Spring; that is, the Spring to life. But the Church would not be completed until the destruction of the first temple was completed.

    What it means in my own interpretation is this:
    Now learn this, when you see Israel (fig tree) got its independence (twigs get tender and leaves come out) in May 14, 1948, you will know that summer is near (summer in UK starts from May 15, and generally in the Northern hemisphere, summer starts in June). Truly, I tell you, this generation (those who was born during Israel's independence) will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
    Nope, all wrong. There is no rebirth of fleshly Israel. Not one single verse teaches this. There is only the Israel of God.

    The fig tree and all the trees represent the nation Israel and all the other countries. Now, Israel gain its independence in 1948 and there are many countries that gained their independence during those times after WW2. This is the period in which people began to realize the fallability of the colonial powers and they fought to gain their independence....India, Pakistan, Indonesia etc. Please see the long list of nations that gain indepedence after WW2:
    No it did not! You guys are so bluntly blind. Are they independent? Is Israel their nation even to this day? They are plagued with homosexuality, and many other sins. The land you refer to as Israel is considered blasphemy compared to the Church. They do not have independence with their Palestinian occupation, and the citizens who currently reside there are not biologically Israel. They are nothing more than remnants of a European nation, mixed with Arabic blood, serving as tour-guides of an ancient land formerly known as Israel.

    It totally amazes me how stubborn some members can be. Choew ignores context, and instead tries to combine passages from scripture to contradict the rest of scripture. God never promised an eternal Israel based on flesh. God did promise a new and better covenant, which was seeded by Christ, and flourished as the Summer by God. His insistence on Matthew 24 referring to Israel of the flesh being reborn, totally contradicts the other Gospels which teach of the same thing, AND he ignores the predictions of Christ involving the temple's destruction. It's as though he isolates Matthew's example of the Fig Tree from the rest of Matthew 24, as though Jesus were telling the Apostles a sign of the world's end or something.

    Matthew 24 must be taken in its entirety, and not limited to a single verse of the "Fig Tree".

    I used to believe as he does, but I was set free from the constant barrage of false predictions. 1948 was 63 years ago, and that's a very long time. And since that time, there is absolutely no indication of a regathering of biological Israel.

    There is no biological Israel of the flesh, and there will never again be a biological Israel of the flesh. This goes against the nature of the Church.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    277
    For what it's worth, I have a few thoughts about the fig tree that differ from what most people talk about when discussing this topic and thought I would mention them to see what you all think.

    When I first read the parable of the fig tree as a young christian, I was reminded of Adam and Eve making garments of the leaves to cover themselves. At the time it struck me as odd that they would use fig leaves, since we had a fig tree in our back yard and the leaves had little "hairs" all over them that would make you itch if your skin touched them. I don't know if all fig trees have leaves like that, but another oddity I noticed is how fast fig leaves dry out and crumble to bits once they are pulled off the tree. Both of these characteristics make them an unlikely choice to be used for a covering. As I thought more about the parable Jesus spoke, and about other passages mentioning fig trees, I came to believe that the fig tree was not representative of Israel as a whole, or of Judah and the Jews, it seems to be more representative of the temple with all of it's religious activity that gave people a sense of being "covered". Kind of like Adam and Eve with their fig leaves. The passage in Jeremiah about the basket of figs actually begins with a reference to the temple in v.1. Joel 1 has a reference to the fig tree withering along with "all the trees" in a context with a lot of references to the temple. The parable in Matthew 21 is also surrounded with references to the temple. The fruit Jesus was looking for from this "fig tree" was for it to be "a house of prayer for all nations" (21:13), healing of the blind and lame (21:14) and praises to the Lord (21:15 -16). The temple system in Jerusalem never produced these fruits. It also "withered away from the roots". Jesus also linked the withering of the fig tree to "this mountain" being cast into the sea" according to the faith of those who would speak to it that way. This seems to be symbolic of the survivors of the Jewish nation (kingdom of the Jews) being taken away captive after the fall of Jerusalem. As that began to happen they took refuge under the "fig tree" and it was not enough to cover them.

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