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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    Joe... you mean the greatest story ever told is anti-climatic and has no timelines and no secenario of events, and no one is suppose to know, and no one is suppose to be prepared.... and it just sort of happens out of the blue, magically without warning...... and without precursive eventds and a buildup.

    You mean the GREATEST AUTHOR of all TIMES and of the AGES, doesn;t know how to write and plan and organize the End before His New Beginning. You mean because others didn;t know the future, means we are not suppose to know the future.....

    Joe, you are being contraqdictory to say the least... you can;t now say that prophecy is unfolding when you have repeatedly said, there is nothing going to happen in the future, OR try to slip in a final defeat of Satan, some day, some way, some how, you know not how or when or why or how all prophecies fit together cohesively because WHY.... you cant figure it out and want to play it safe and DUMB... with just a magic POOF, ZAP its all over finnish.

    Get your climax together, realise the consummation, is a CONSUMMATION of all history, and all prophecy, and all the prophets words....

    Your sudden destruction and out of the blue magic, doesn't prepare anyone for whats ahead,...but then again it is a foolish excuse for you to say nobody knows because you dont know.


    Ha... so if a newbie says, they dont know anything after getting indocrinated by you, then they know as much as you do, right from the start. They know it all, because they dont need to know anything....and theres nothing to know according to you....
    I will explain it again to help you understand.

    The bulk of Revelation was about the destruction of the Harlot and the Church (New Jerusalem) being married to Christ. It is after the Harlot is killed by the GWT judgment of God, that the Bride of Christ and the Bride begin reigning over the earth during the Millenniums. Keep in mind that the Bride of Christ is the fully active New Jerusalem known as Christianity. Christ's reign is forever; it is not Christ who is limited to a few millenniums; it is the risen Saints who are in heaven, who have a limitation of their reign, if even limited at all.

    After John sees the Harlot destroyed, and the Bridegroom married to His Bride (Church), he sees a very short glimpse of what happens to the Church after the millenniums. But not much is said about this event. If it were that important, John would have been given more detail. But all we are told is that Satan, after being released when the Millennium's have reached its purpose (Church expansion on a global scale), begins to deceive the nations with a very large army of those who attempt to surround the "camp" of the Saints. In the Old Testament during the Exodus, prior to entering the promised land, Hebrew soldiers were to fast for seven days and abstain from sexual intercourse to purify themselves for battle. After the seven days of purification, they would then war. In the same way, Christians abide in the camp of God; the city He loves, aka, the New Jerusalem (spiritual kingdom mind you), and is surrounded by satan's new army which comes from all the different nations. I once believe this to be Islam. But they do not have control over anything. I now believe this to be Zionism; the false idea of a rebuilt city of God known as secular Israel. It is they who seem to have the power over much of the world, and it is they who are attacking the Christians in every country. These false Jews reportedly killed over 30,000,000 millions Orthodox Christians in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution (Russian Revolution into Jewish communism). It is these false Jews who introduce pornography, homosexuality, and the likes in Germany to corrupt their society. It is these false Jews who have infiltrated the United States of America and have done the same to us as what happened to both Russia and Germany, to also include France, Spain, England, etc., and all through their central bank scam of fiat currency. The white house will not permit any Christian icons or idioms, but yet they do permit the menorah (seven candlesticks). All John is told is that God's wrath will be poured out upon Satan to also include those who follow them. Are you one of those who follow them (false Jews)? Be careful! Once that is completed, then Satan is taken out of the way forever, and the nations will no longer have to worry about deceiving doctrines to confuse or mislead Christians. The Church will finally be able to exist without fear. Nothing else is said about this short prophesy of the Millennium.

    John is then taken back to the time after the Harlot is killed and the wedding has taken place, and he sees what the Bride of Christ looks like. She is described as a decorated city of pearls, stones, and jewels with each representing the 12 Tribes of Israel (that were approved), and the nations entering therein by the gates of the Apostles (teachings of the Bible and their written testimony).

    There is no end-game or climax you sensationalists keep searching for. This isn't a baseball game you nut! We're not watching football or rugby! The earth abides forever, and ever, and ever. Each new generation, from one new moon to the next, will continue to provide new souls for heaven (or hell) which ever. The universe is an endless place man. I don't know about you. But eternity in a box is not my idea of paradise. As for me, I look forward to entering into the heavens where there are billions and billions of worlds, galaxies, stars, and planets.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    Agreed ....Yes, Jesus is the Messiah... past Jews who believed in the Messiah to come...were Christians, as Jesus was the Messiah. Any that believe in the Lord can be saved, whether Jew or non Jew, of any country, language, education, background, gender etc etc etc....

    Our ancestors were Christians in the Old Testament, they believed and were saved, same as us...no difference. same mercy same forgiveness etc etc etc..

    The Lord Messiah YHWH of the Old Testament was Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was The One, Who wrote the Ten Commandment tablets for Moses and gave them to him on Mount Sinai.

    The one large dividing factor of OT/OC YHWH/Christ followers and the NT/NC YHWH/Christ followers were that all OT Saints were sent to be in Sheol UNTIL The Great White Throne Judgement.Because Sin was still credited to each and every one of them. THE CROSS did not even change where 'The Dead Ones' went... Only The Judgement would change that. NONE of the OT/OC YHWH/Christ followers were allowed in the Holy of Holies of Heaven, not even King David, Until the Old Covenant Judgements/ Great White Throne Judgements of Blessings and Curses. THEN The Graves were opened and the transformed into a/the new creation bodies to come forth into HIS presents.

    You seem to be very unlearned on these fundamentals.
    Brother Les

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    The Lord Messiah YHWH of the Old Testament was Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was The One, Who wrote the Ten Commandment tablets for Moses and gave them to him on Mount Sinai.

    The one large dividing factor of OT/OC YHWH/Christ followers and the NT/NC YHWH/Christ followers were that all OT Saints were sent to be in Sheol UNTIL The Great White Throne Judgement.Because Sin was still credited to each and every one of them. THE CROSS did not even change where 'The Dead Ones' went... Only The Judgement would change that. NONE of the OT/OC YHWH/Christ followers were allowed in the Holy of Holies of Heaven, not even King David, Until the Old Covenant Judgements/ Great White Throne Judgements of Blessings and Curses. THEN The Graves were opened and the transformed into a/the new creation bodies to come forth into HIS presents.

    You seem to be very unlearned on these fundamentals.
    "Unlearned" is an understatement. More like "contaminated" as most of us were, having been taught by the Baptist and Pentecostal churches. In my opinion, Baptist churches are the worst when it comes to prophecy and doctrine. Especially the "Once saved always saved" doctrine of the Southern Baptist. Heck they even reject Baptism is an illegitimate church practice as though it were not necessary.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  4. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Were you around in the late 1960s - early 1970s? 'Predictions' of 'the second coming' were on everyone's (seemed like) minds and conversations... The great build up to 1988 (September)... NOTHING HAPPENED..... OH, OH one year off...1989.... NOTHING HAPPENED AGAIN...
    1995 came... 2000came... Every date setter is so very wrong. And you are wrong too.

    The 'preachers' of that time said that the 'world' most get worse and worse and to do NOTHING to make it better. God is 'in control' and let HIM do it all..."God will save those who are His and burn up everything else", was their lie. 'Christians' were told that 'Israel and Jews' were Gods 'chosen'... and 'they' would/must 'repent' before Christ could 'come again'......
    Because of the 'Left Behind' teaching and the 'Late Great Planet Earth' propaganda, when no 'second coming' happened, it almost destroyed a generation of Christianity and let entrench a more evil and sadistic planet and country. 'Christians' were looked at as they said that they were.... sheep... Dumb and stupid pile of sheep dip...

    You are following alone the same line of sheep dip, but only 30 years later. TIME will destroy your paradigm as it has so many millions of others.
    As mentioned, you have one future event called the GWTJ..Nothing else, apparently you had a secret 2nd Coming, and your Millenium turned into a few milleniums or some other made up non figure, so that your one event, can eventually without notice or warning just pop up in front of everyone and there they are before the THRONE.

    Simplistic nonsense, but you do have one future event.

    Gotcha in your insanity fella's....

    But if that turns your crank, and makes you feel spiritual.... go for it.

    I mean mellow out and day dream, and go out about your daily non spiritual business, and just live as if nothing will happen.

    I thought I had heard it all.... but you guys may have topped the cake of prophecy idiocracy. But then again you do have one event.... not the hundreds necessary, or maybe ten necessary for basic knowledge.... so there is hope.

    Whats after one..... or whats before one...

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    As mentioned, you have one future event called the GWTJ..Nothing else, apparently you had a secret 2nd Coming, and your Millenium turned into a few milleniums or some other made up non figure, so that your one event, can eventually without notice or warning just pop up in front of everyone and there they are before the THRONE.

    Simplistic nonsense, but you do have one future event.

    Gotcha in your insanity fella's....

    But if that turns your crank, and makes you feel spiritual.... go for it.

    I mean mellow out and day dream, and go out about your daily non spiritual business, and just live as if nothing will happen.

    I thought I had heard it all.... but you guys may have topped the cake of prophecy idiocracy. But then again you do have one event.... not the hundreds necessary, or maybe ten necessary for basic knowledge.... so there is hope.

    Whats after one..... or whats before one...
    Huh, you would be incorrect my little counterfeit Jew. Brother LES is a Full Preterist. I am a Full Preterist to a certain extent. LES and I differ on the Millennium, but our conclusions are the same. We both know, love, and agree that the New Jerusalem (Church) has always ruled the earth, and continues to do so, with Jesus as the King of the world. Sure Satan tries to cause trouble. But like you, he will lose, and you with him.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Huh, you would be incorrect my little counterfeit Jew. Brother LES is a Full Preterist. I am a Full Preterist to a certain extent. LES and I differ on the Millennium, but our conclusions are the same. We both know, love, and agree that the New Jerusalem (Church) has always ruled the earth, and continues to do so, with Jesus as the King of the world. Sure Satan tries to cause trouble. But like you, he will lose, and you with him.

    Joe
    It seems that the want-a-be messianic jew davidjayjordan knows very little of The Covenants and The Ages... The many different Covenants of The Bible. Jesus Came to Fulfill the Covenants, not Destroy.... Fulfill. I understand and believe in Covenant Eschatology that the Scripture always points to at the End of The Mosaic Age/World. The Mosaic Age/World came to a full fulfillment and faded away in the first century. There is NO Eschatology to come After the NEW Messianic Covenant marrige, where there is no jew or gentile. David and the sect that he is in are rebels of Jesus and in NO Covenant of the Creator of The World.

    Joe, our differences are nothing. The Kingdom of the New Covenant is now and always growing. Ever learning and debating in Love. Sin an Death are not accounted to those of Faith by the Grace of God, but Life eternal. I am a Full Preterist, David is just a confused fool with little Biblical knowledge.
    Brother Les

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    It seems that the want-a-be messianic jew davidjayjordan knows very little of The Covenants and The Ages... The many different Covenants of The Bible. Jesus Came to Fulfill the Covenants, not Destroy.... Fulfill. I understand and believe in Covenant Eschatology that the Scripture always points to at the End of The Mosaic Age/World. The Mosaic Age/World came to a full fulfillment and faded away in the first century. There is NO Eschatology to come After the NEW Messianic Covenant marrige, where there is no jew or gentile. David and the sect that he is in are rebels of Jesus and in NO Covenant of the Creator of The World.

    Joe, our differences are nothing. The Kingdom of the New Covenant is now and always growing. Ever learning and debating in Love. Sin an Death are not accounted to those of Faith by the Grace of God, but Life eternal. I am a Full Preterist, David is just a confused fool with little Biblical knowledge.
    I totally agree about the ages. There are two ages identified in the Bible:

    1. Mosaic Age of the Law
    2. Christian Age of Grace

    The Old Testament age was a temporary covenant by God and was applicable only to the Israelites. The rest of the inhabited world could not be judged under the Law since they had no Law except onto themselves. It is interesting to note that the only place in the Bible that speaks of "an end" was in the book of Daniel, and also in the Gospels with Jesus referencing the same "end" as in Daniel. The end was not of the world, but of the old covenant. Jesus (as you correctly stated) did not come to abolish the law; He came to fulfill it. And that He did, thus making Him the perfect author, counselor, tutor, and inspirator of our Faith. The Old Covenant Age in dealing with the ancient Israelites was fulfilled by 70AD. When the temple and its works were burned up in the Great White Throne judgment of God, death and hades were done away with forever. Since that time, each are judged individually after death, and the way I see it, we either go into the eternal paradise of God (Heaven), or are destroyed forever.

    I know the Millennium has caused divisions even within the Preterist group. Mine is not that much different. Some might try to call me a Partial Preterist, since they too look for a 2nd coming of Jesus, which both you and I understand to have happened in 70AD. Fools like David don't seem to understand that Jesus never said He was going to come at the end of the world; He said He would not leave the Apostles and their disciples as orphans, and that He would return for them in grace, but wrath upon his enemies who killed Him on the cross. As He Himself stated, "This generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled".

    The 7 Feasts of Israel were fulfilled in order, on time, and in sequence without any gaps. The Futurists like to insert a very large gap with the last two Feasts of Israel:

    1. Feast of Trumpets
    2. Feast of Tabernacles

    They believe these two are yet to be fulfilled. But you and I both know that the Feast of Trumpets happened in the 60's - 70's AD, and the Feast of Tabernacles happened after 70AD, with the Kingdom of Christ gaining victory over the false Jews, and eventually over the Roman world. My only change was with the Millenniums because I have found no logical reason to cram a millennium into a 40 year period. I have read from Talmudic rabbi's that per their own belief, a millennium is the same as 40 years. I believe they refer to this as the Messianic Millennium equaling 40 years, and the 40 years = a generation. However, I still do not accept this because the Millennial reign of the Saints with Christ has to do with the Church. From 30AD to 40AD, the Church was not yet victorious; it was still being built; that is to say, the "living stones" were still being added to the building (spiritual building). By the time the building was complete, the time of testing and wrath had come; wrath for the false Jews who murdered Christ and the Saints; blessings for the remnant from first to last, and to eternity.

    Also, Satan is bound during the Millenniums so that the nations could not be fooled nor deceived. And for the most part, we have to agree that for the first 1,000 years of the Church's of Christ (Byzantine and Alexandrian together), the Holy Catholic Church lived somewhat peacefully except in the few regions where persecution still occurred. Diocletian was the last known Roman leader of the 3rd century to persecute Christians; it was he who tried to burn all Christian books and writings. But Constantine put an end to this, and the Church lived gracefully on up to the dark ages. By the 10th century, the Church was once again in a schism and the Greeks and Romans were divided with the establishment of a Pope, which the Greeks opposed even to this day. By the 14th century, the Roman Church split again, this time leading up to the Protestant Revolution.

    All we are told (from my perspective) is that Satan is bound during the Millenniums until he is released again to go after the nations. At first I believed this to be Islam, but now it is quite obvious that Zionism and its different factions (Illuminati, Freemasons, Skull and Bones, etc.) are the armies of satan; especially since it is they who are trying desperately to ruin the Church. These control nearly all world governments and will not rest until Christianity falls. One way they have been able to gain so much power is by the false claims of being Jewish, and then passing illegal laws to forbid any negative discussion about them, or else face charges of Anti-Semitism. In most of Europe, prison time is not charged to those guilty of Anti-Semitism. They are trying to do this in the United States with that evil witch Feinstein pushing for "Hate Speech" laws.

    The point I am making is that this is the final conflict. But this doesn't mean that the world ends afterwards, nor does it mean that the New Jerusalem comes afterwards. It just means Satan is done away with forever, and the nations cna finally exist and live in peace. But sin will still exist, albeit wars will likely be reduced. I have researched this very hard, and I can conclude that every single war that has happened as far back as Napoleon, were all wars started by the fake-currency bankers, aka fake Jews of the synagogue of Satan. End the central banks, dispose this world of all fake Jews (who are criminals I should add), and the world will finally know peace. (note: I'm referring to fake Jews who cause wars).

    I'd like to chat with you on the phone if you would like. Check your inbox as I have sent you my number.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    I totally agree about the ages. There are two ages identified in the Bible:



    I'd like to chat with you on the phone if you would like. Check your inbox as I have sent you my number.

    Joe
    I will not call you, Joe. Even though it, I think would be nice talking to you. It is good to build on like minded thinking, but some things need to be kept at an arms length apart. I have spoken to Don Preston several times, but that is as far as I go with an online community. I stumbled onto the fact that my son-in-laws Uncle is a Full Preterist (and his wife) and we talked for hours the last time we met. He was a minister for over 25 years and was asked about all of the 'Endtime' dogma going around, by some in 'his' church. He told me that he really took the time to dive into 'eschatology' to separate what the Bible said and what man twisted in 'hopes' of what the Bible said. He came to the hard conclusion that the Judgements spoken of in the New Testament were For that First Century NT Generation. There was no way to twist and distort the words of the NT and make the Prophecies of Judgements on the Mosaic Covenant and the Fullness of the NC go past 'That Generation'. He understood that 'WE' are the children of that first century generation.

    In my statement of 'past' covenants and past Ages. Jesus did live in the Mosaic Age and spoke of the Age to Come (New Covenant Age). But you know very well that there were Covenants Before the Mosaic Covenant (Abrahamic, Noah.... etc). With that said, there were also many 'Ages', before the Mosaic Age.....
    Brother Les

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    I will not call you, Joe. Even though it, I think would be nice talking to you. It is good to build on like minded thinking, but some things need to be kept at an arms length apart. I have spoken to Don Preston several times, but that is as far as I go with an online community. I stumbled onto the fact that my son-in-laws Uncle is a Full Preterist (and his wife) and we talked for hours the last time we met. He was a minister for over 25 years and was asked about all of the 'Endtime' dogma going around, by some in 'his' church. He told me that he really took the time to dive into 'eschatology' to separate what the Bible said and what man twisted in 'hopes' of what the Bible said. He came to the hard conclusion that the Judgements spoken of in the New Testament were For that First Century NT Generation. There was no way to twist and distort the words of the NT and make the Prophecies of Judgements on the Mosaic Covenant and the Fullness of the NC go past 'That Generation'. He understood that 'WE' are the children of that first century generation.

    In my statement of 'past' covenants and past Ages. Jesus did live in the Mosaic Age and spoke of the Age to Come (New Covenant Age). But you know very well that there were Covenants Before the Mosaic Covenant (Abrahamic, Noah.... etc). With that said, there were also many 'Ages', before the Mosaic Age.....
    Well thanks for being honest my good friend. I would have loved chatting with you. I have not spoken to Don Preston directly (phone), but I have briefly spoken to him on a few of his YouTube channels. Some questions he answered, but other he did not. I listened to his explanation of the Millennium, and it was very convincing. And for years, that is what I believed. It wasn't until last year that I began to question the millennium theory mostly because of a few contradictions about Satan being bound while the Saints reigned, and then being released again after the Millennium to deceive the nations. Well we know Satan was not bound in 30AD after the crucifixion of Christ. He was cast out of heaven as a result, but he still had control over Rome, with Jerusalem on his side. I believe Satan was cast out of heaven after the resurrection of Jesus, and so Satan begins to attack the Church (early Church). AS they spread throughout all Israel, and the nations, the Romans and their side-kick Jews chased Christians down from one city to the next, even murdering some of the Apostles (James, a disciple named Stephen, etc.). By 70AD, the Harlot was destroyed, but in Revelation was see that Satan was not bound until after the Harlot was destroyed. That had to have been 70AD. So from my view, Christ marries the Church in 70 AD after killing the adulterous wife (false Jews), and begins striking down the nations with His kingdom, "come! Eat the flesh of kings, princes, and the mighty people....i.e. the nations" and has spend the last two millenniums spreading throughout the globe. After the millenniums, Satan is released (which I believe we are seeing now) to surround the church again, only this time he is using fake Jews instead of Gentile kings (ancient Rome). We know they will lose (assuming my interpretation is correct), and that will be the end of satanic deception, and the Church will continue on as always, only this time in a better world. Sinners will always exist, but there will no longer be a nation ruled by satanism as we are seeing now. I know this may not be accepted by all Full Preterists; there are a few like me. But no matter FP or my view, the result is the same...an ongoing world that never ends.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

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