Christian theology/worship in Popular Music

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

As reminded by goodnewsinc of his perspective of castles in the sky songs of Christian perspective and the Creator Spirit are sometimes found within mainstream music and not only 'christian rock'. Some of Christian music can even be tainted with questionable teaching theology. Thus we cannot depend or rely on music or musicians solely for our theology.

This thread is designed to give posters here a chance to share songs or groups who they feel are 'spiritual songs' laden with truth of the Spirit.

The group Kansas had a member who was born of the Spirit and helped write 'dust in the wind' and "Carry ON (my wayward son)"

Huey Lewis and the News usually have had positive songs including 'the Power of Love" which could be construed as a worship song of the second half of Romans 12/first part of Rom 13.

About 20 yrs ago, I was listening to Steve Miller Band "Wintertime" and it struck me that he was singing about the antithesis of the 'summer' prophecy of the Olivet Discourse. I remember thinking/saying "these are kingdom song's" and "spiritual songs'. Then, afterwhile I dismissed the thought while thinking that perhaps it was written in a mocking rebellion of what I was taught was the yet future judgment.

Having recently picked up a more complete compilation of his 'greatest hits' AND along with a re-newed awareness of fulfilled prophecy and of reading/interpreting/understanding from an original audience perspective; I am even more persuaded that many SMB songs can not only be enjoyed simply as pop music with great guitar, rythm and harmony and quirky but fun lyrics, but some or many also reflect a testimony of being "spiritual songs" with some added individual personality.

In a song "Wide River" he sings:
Wide River, do you remember me?; It was not so long ago that you set me free. We of the indwelt spirit of Jesus and fulfilled perspective can understand that the River he's speaking of could be the River of Life of Rev 20+. and the setting free is being set free from the law of sin/seperation/shame (death) and law of Moses. Rom 8:2; 10:4.

In a song titled: Space Cowboy he sings;
"let me tell you people that I've found a new wayand I'm tired of all this talk about LAWWW-ve. He says that there is nothing that they can say that can satisfy he soul deep inside.... (I take it because it is already satified)....and he is ready for the 'FINAL SURPRISE'.. (I.E. DEATH and Afterlife)

The 'new way' to me is the way that Abraham found; i.e. being justified by faith. It's the Way of the Tree of Life in a restored fellowship and sonship with the Father (Abba, Daddy) through faith in Christ's Person. as well as being taught directly by the Jesus/Creator Spirit as described in the prophecies of the NC and in John 14-16. It's the Way of putting faith in the Person, Words and Character of Christ as God representation 'incarnate' as THE WAY, TRUTH and LIFE. It's the New law , New Words of the 'new' covenant; and the restoration of individual freedom and accountability and being sons/daughters of the Living God that Jesus had.

Then he talks about the 'FAT CATS' and the pray-ers and survey-ors who he keeps guard against. I'd make a connection to the political leaders and the pharisaic type 'religionist' and those who seek to rule over and oppress others by constantly surveying what they are doing and instilling undue fear and enslavement through false interpretations or authority.

I think it is in this song that he says: I keep my eyes on the prize; on the long fallen skies and I dont' let my friends get hurt...
The 'long fallen skies' seem to me to be skies-ordinances of heaven of the mosaic covenant leadership of the Olivet discourse, which "FELL" by the power of God during the Roman invasion along with the prophesied end of the Mosaic conditional/national/inferior covenant.

There are more lyrics to that song that indicate that they are indeed 'spiritual songs' even with original audience perspective which can be sung right along with psalms and hymns.

Barry McGuire did an album called "Cosmic Cowboy" and I wonder if there was an association with that album.

In a song titled "Wild Moutain Honey" Mr Miller sings "cmon children, (Jesus' children) lets learn how to RUN; by heaven, the stars, the moon and the sun. This again could be a referral to the ordinances, power and love of the Creator of Life and of Heavens/earth. The 'Wild Moutain Honey" could of course be applied in several different ways; but we read in Joel 3:18 where his doctrine and word would flow from a moutain like new wine and like milk (synonomous other places with honey) and we know that the compilation of ordinances, statutes and doctrine can be referred to as a mountain.

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, (not fire of destruction) and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

It could be "Wild" due to it's being administered, enforced and protected in Freedom by the God of Heaven and not man.

He sings Cmon Papa; your end is your means. At the end of a mans life; his will is revealed. Through adoption as sons, and freedom of the Spirit of Life in Christ; a reborn mans 'Good' will, exposed and submitted heart's desires and purposes become attainable and successful during this life and through the good/loving will of God/Christ. "Lean not on your own understanding, ..... and he will bring it to pass....

In a beautiful song titled the Window; He askes the question of what perspective do you have of life and the creation.... "Look through the window... tell me what do you see.... a beautiful planet, Peace and Harmony". God's Creation and Kingdom is still Good!!! We need to stop tearing it down and criticizing it.


He sings "think Love, you'll surround it" and I think this is the perspective of understanding and surrounding scriptures from the Garden law in Genesis to the Wide River in Revelation through the Lenses of the Love/Mercy of God and not remain in judgment of the Garden.

I think it was this song that I was listening to while parked in the mountains a few weeks ago and soon after it started playing a song bird came and perched right above the truck and "sang" in what seemed to be joyous harmony with the music for half a minute or more.

In a song titled "I want to make the world turn around" he begins; "I dont' want to live in a world of darkness; I want to live in the world of LIGHT; I don't want to live in a world that's heartless; I want to live in the world of Sight". These are written as if they could be sung, listened to right along with Johns Gospel and epistles. It's in this song that he says...we've got to build it up, stop tearing it down... weve got to build it up... make the "world" turn around... meaning go the opposite direction of the manner in which it is going.
We've got to stop tearing it down by preaching the 'end and destruction of the God created world' and by preaching that mans sin had such an effect on Creation that God has to destroy it.....We need to stop tearing it down by pushing off (shutting up) the kingdom of God to the future age rather than seeking and learning through faith how to live in the present kingdom of God of the saints.

Another song has him say... don't want to ever kill another man....

Another song is titled military/industrial complex Hex.

and in another song called "cry, cry, cry" (or blues for a beautiful world)... "all you need is a heartbeat and a HEART...."

and another "Gather your leaves together (implied shame from disobedience of garden judgment ) there's only LOVE until we die. (Rom 8:2) Not: live in shame, consequences and judgment (of sin) until jesus returns... Adopted and forgiven individual children of God through faith in Christ have (shameless) access to the throne of Grace as children who can confidently call out "Daddy" to the omnipotent/omniscient / loving Creator. Johns gospel, Hebrews and first John support this.
It seems Mr Millers theology might agree with several of us here who view the 'death' of the garden judgment as being cast out of direct fellowship with "Daddy" or in other words an eternal spiritual death which was then given a remedy fulfilled in eternal fellowship and LIFE with God/Holy Spirit (Space Cowboys) The veil of the temple is torn; the shame and blame of the seperation from the presence and joy with Him is removed. His presence can fill our souls with unconditional Love and our lives can be developed as a garden and 'wide river' that gets deeper.

I've read lyrics of some of his other lesser known songs and have found a likemindedness and common Spirit.

It would be appropriate to have responses to any of these bands or mention others who you feel may be singing 'spiritual songs' of the positive kingdom of God.

I dont' mean to intepret Mr Millers songs incorrectly or invasively, or read too much into them; but these are some of the perspectives I glean from them.

Another musician who I greatly enjoy is John Michael Talbot.

Tony

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Another preterist song related to the end of the mosaic covenant time period??


Won't Get Fooled Again
------The Who

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone [mosaic covenant principles]
And the men who spurred us on [apostles]
Sit in judgment of all wrong [Dan 7:25-27]
They decide and the shotgun [roman armies] sings the song [song of Moses] The apostles sang the song of the lamb and the song of Moses.

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution [new elements and ordinances of the everlasting covenant]
Take a bow for the new revolution [revolution away from old covenant]
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday [jsut like before the mosaic covenant]
And I'll get on my knees and pray

We don't get fooled again [dont' get sucked into contracting into conditional/corporal warring corporations]
Don't get fooled again [dont' get fooled again into contracting into corporal warfare/religion]

Change it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fall that's all [until this time of the removal of the mosaic covenant, they were liberated from only the law of sin/death, but not yet publicly liberated from the national law of moses yet, thouigh Jesus' teachings were contrary to the principles of that law]
But the world looks just the same [physical, global earth and world looked the same, thought the new heavens [ordiances] and earth arrived]
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war [Roman mythology, just like babylonian judaism were/are both false war and legalistic religions] The "last war" could refer to @ 70 Ad or the same elements fighting in 135 AD.

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday [just like before the mosaic covenant]
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside [believers were instructed to leave judea and not participate in the wars]
If we happen to be left half alive [over half ? died under Nero and the rabbi's]
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky [perhaps the epistles and writings of the OT]
For I know that the hypnotized never lie [hypnotized = OT prophets who prophesied the events even referring to Balack]

Do ya?


There's nothing in the street [Jerusalem desolate??]
Looks any different to me [ he never valued them anyhow?]
Similar to how God disreguards the sacrifice and temple in Isaiah 65, thoiugh they are still standing.
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye [jewish slogains/morals/principles compared to to christian slogans/morals/principles??]
And the parting on the left [crossing jordan right to left]
Is now the parting on the right [crossing jordan left to right]
And the beards have all grown longer overnight [wisdom and revealed knowledge through the experience]

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss [Jesus/holy Spirit and his instruction..]
Same as the old boss [the old boss called the mosaic conditional/corporal elements temporary and 'not good' from it's beginning.]


Another song of theirs with overt spiritual, supernatural implications is;

"I can see for miles"

37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;

38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these [preachers] should hold their peace, [or if they shut up the kingdom through Ireneous or dispensationalism] the rocks [musicians and rock stars ] would immediately cry out.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I love that song! It's really fun to play the drums to it on Guitar Hero.



Your Preterist commentary on it is pretty interesting.

"And the morals that they worship will be gone [mosaic covenant principles]" - or more generally, the concept of morality advanced from RULES to SPIRIT, which really means "intuition." It speaks of spiritual maturity = "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

I done become a freeman, and I'm loving it! Free of all dogma. Free of all rules! "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

I love that song! It's really fun to play the drums to it on Guitar Hero.



Your Preterist commentary on it is pretty interesting.

"And the morals that they worship will be gone [mosaic covenant principles]" - or more generally, the concept of morality advanced from RULES to SPIRIT, which really means "intuition." It speaks of spiritual maturity = "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

I done become a freeman, and I'm loving it! Free of all dogma. Free of all rules! "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Amen on the free from dogma.... free from rules... Free to LIVE by the power of Life and Love, but not in rebellion and self damage against the rules, just not in subordination to them.

I love the intro to this song; maybe why I started keying into it. It's kinda like communion with God in immiediate prayer response. A note, then a counternote; another note, another counternote. The intro to Tazmin Archers sleeping Satellite and the Who's Baba Oreilley have simialar ideas.


I dont' have any confirmation on the meaning of this song at all but some of the parallels are too close to avoid; especially being liberated from the fall, that's all [up till that time]. They hypnotized [prophets of the OT] don't lie.... then he says DO YA???

I wouldnt' have been able to make this association 5 yrs ago.
Their other WHO song...i can see for miles indicates and spiritual and supernatural vision based on one's heart knowledge of the truth. There's "MAJIC" in his eyes. Lies fall away through time.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

As time goes on, I am finding more and more preterist theology in mainline music. I'll not post the video's, but mention a few more songs/artists.

More of the Who, including Behind Blue Eyes; Baba O'reilley; Love Reign Over Me; Real GOOD looking boy; Eminence Front; My Generation... and likely others.

Tazmin Archer; Sleeping Satellite; The reason we 'chase' [to glorify God/Jesus] is lost in Romance [either man/woman chasing each other or reliving the nostalgia and 'glory' of Roman/Civil law and administrations or of mosaic covenant Israel] Do we have what it takes to carry the weight of this concept [the concept of the love ordinances, ideologies and truths of the new covenant lived in humanity], or do we 'pass it by'??? Like a shot in the dark, faith in Jesus as living Creator God incarnate is shot that HITS the Mark.


5 for fighting: 100 yrs

The monkees; "For Pete's Sake"; "you just may be the one".



I'm also finding teaching and theology represented in some movies.

The Natural - Hobbs, after intense testing, doesn't succumb to serving the master of Money [greed] but serves integrity and the "truth" of the purpose of the game. In the next to final scene he knocks out the lights, possibly signifying that 'the game', a microcosm of life, is to be played in the DAYLIGHT, not in the dark. That the "Judge" who is the owner of the Knights prefers to remain 'in the dark' is another symbolic imagery from the movie. There are several lines in the movie which indicated Hobbs has special insight. You see me don't you, says Gus Sands, one of the bosses men. Hobb Says, maybe I do, maybe I don't. Max Mercy, a sportswriter says that he is there to "protect this 'game', But Hobbs questions as to which Game he is there to protect, Baseball or his game as sportswriter. And in another scene, Hobbs tells Gus who is attempting to coerce and influence Hobbs, that he [Gus] is standing pretty close; and that he {Hobbs] isn't sure if it's his toes or Gus's that he's feeling.

The outlaw Josey Whales: In the Early part of the movie, Fletcher tells Terril that because of what he's [Terrill and the redlegs] has done, He [Fletcher] will have to hunt whales to "KINGDOM COME". in the final scene, and after much tribulation and a significant conversation with chief 10 bears about Govornments, not people making wars, and about People living together in Peace; Fletcher gives Whales the 'first move'. Whales turns his back [he's out of ammo anyhow] and rides off to "Kingdom Come" with his back facing Fletcher while Fletcher says that he guesses he'll ride down to Mexico to look for Whales...

In "UNFORGIVEN"
the character played by Clint Eastwood represents a man who had been a killer but who has 'changed his ways', and has lived incident free for some 20 yrs. Until hearing of an event in a distant town triggers a memory or jogs a guilty or judgmental spirit.

Eventually the man played by Eastwood is reciprocally unforgiving of the boy who scared a prostitutes face, gathers his neighbor, [a former accomplice], kills the young man and ends up losing his neighbor/friend and his wife in the process.

The man may have 'change his ways' to live under the confines of the law, but he had not recieved internal forgiveness, been justified by faith or instructed in the divinity of Life and of the Authority of it's creator. He was still 'unforgiven', unjustified, unchanged.

[David M]

As time goes on, I am finding more and more Christian and especially preterist theology in mainline music.

Surely, this does not mean that the song writers were Christians or Preterists. Where does mainstream Christianity get its ideas from? Probably from the songs you mention by way of example. The song writers as well as mainstream Christianity ought to get their understanding from rightly dividing the word of scripture which God has given us.

(1 John 2:3,4) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

(1 John 5:20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

(2 Timothy 2:15) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.




David

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Surely, this does not mean that the song writers were Christians or Preterists. Where does mainstream Christianity get its ideas from? Probably from the songs you mention by way of example. The song writers as well as mainstream Christianity ought to get their understanding from rightly dividing the word of scripture which God has given us.

(1 John 2:3,4) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

(1 John 5:20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

(2 Timothy 2:15) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



David

They could be, but perhaps not religiously "ILL-ED" by the Ireneousian, futurist doctrines. [as neither am I]

And I do believe they have many correct perspectives, especially of the preterist understandings, and thus have and do 'rightly divide' or "set a straight course of faith [apart from religion] with the word of truth. They use their gifts to express their beliefs and worship which were/are contrary to some of the the futurists, gloom and doom doctrines of the institutional futurist 'church'.

Steve Miller sings; "I'm trying hard to live in a 'state of Grace' though it might be hard to believe by some of the company he keeps.


The Who sings; "Don't try to dig what we're all saying" because it might not be able to be or intended to be understood by the unbelieving, unrecieving unspiritual 'generation' or Genos.


Regarding his commandments. They are not the mosaic covenant or even the 10 commandments; but are the law of justification by faith as Paul affirmed in Rom 3:27-21 and of his teachigns during his life.

John reaffirmed this in 1 John 3:21

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

And taught in John 6 and john 14.

John 6.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 14:
1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Here's another with preterist implications; escpecially with the time of it's release in @1989 which was in the decade of the supposed rapture and 'end' associated with 40 yrs from the formation of Israel. He sings, I saw the decade in which the world would change in the 'blink of an eye'.

[David M]

I have given a Bible talk in which I referred to the lyrics of 'Imagine' by John Lennon. I do not consider John Lennon to be a Bible believer and for spiritual searching whatever the Beatles were know to go to some Hare Krishna type Guru. In factI think Hare Krishna is in the lyrics or title of anothe Beatles song.

Here are the lyrics to the song 'Imagine'

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

I agree that the words of songs can partly reflect what the songwriter thinks or believes, but this can be far from the Truth as God has revealed it. The words of this song do speak of some things we would like to see in the world today and yet will only come by God's intervention and will not come about by man's rule.

All the best

David

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

I have given a Bible talk in which I referred to the lyrics of 'Imagine' by John Lennon. I do not consider John Lennon to be a Bible believer and for spiritual searching whatever the Beatles were know to go to some Hare Krishna type Guru. In factI think Hare Krishna is in the lyrics or title of anothe Beatles song.

I agree that the words of songs can partly reflect what the songwriter thinks or believes, but this can be far from the Truth as God has revealed it. The words of this song do speak of some things we would like to see in the world today and yet will only come by God's intervention and will not come about by man's rule.

All the best

David

But in revelation, the angel declares that the kingdom of God is WITH MEN. Thus, God DID intervene, and continues his presence indwellingly. Historical christianity has positioned itself against taking the truths of the goodness of Life and of the revealed person and fulfilled purposes of the maker of Life. It has taught the failing church, sinfull and condemned man ideas, along with the doctrine of the need to remake the world. Preterism corrects those errors. The gospel is the GOOD NEWS. Jesus said he had come not to condemn the world, but to save the world, for the world was already in condemnation and ignorance without him.

Not every 'spiritual' song speaks or names Christ. Some even perhaps intentionally shy from the words Jesus or church due to some of the erroneous theology and doctrines handed through Christendom. But out of a good heart comes good words....

I thought of this today:
Some of these singers speak and sing of Grace, Love [reign over me]; the Goodness of Heaven; human love between men and women; the long fallen skies [of the mosaic covt]; Wanna make the world turn around;[live in a world of light and love] ; Why Cry for a beautiful world ...... etc.. etc...

And SOME of our 'christian' preachers and theologians have taught fear, damnation to the planet and world; salvation to their religion and group only, glorified in 'wars and rumors of wars' and glorified in militant activity of and support for "Israel" according to the understandings and interpretations that they presently have. The futurist Irenesian, and the dispensational teaching of the last 150 or so yrs has missed and altered the message of God/Jesus during his visitation.

So, though it's improper to speak testimony for others, perhaps 'space cowboy' better fits the correct theology of Christianity better than some things taught as "Christian". This is the song that talks about the 'long fallen skies'; and not letting his friends get hurt.

Let me tell you people that I found a new way
And I'm tired of all this talk about love
And the same old story with a new set of words FOR THE LAW CAME BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH [NEW WORDS] BY JESUS CHRIST.
About the good and the bad and the poor
And the times keep on changin'
So I'm keepin' on top
Of every fat cat who walks through my door



Thank you and Praises to the Holy Spirit for gifting and motivating some of these people.

And thanks for the interaction on this topic.