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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I know a lot of Orthodox Priests because I have a priest in my family. One was saying to another that either we lose our culture or our faith. One has to go. If we interpret things in the modern Armenian (instead of the classical Armenian) we lose our culture otherwise the people won't understand and lose their faith.
    Fascinating comment. I think this is true in a much broader sense. Christians must accept modern science of the religion will die out to nothing but an obscure cult within a generation or two.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Fascinating comment. I think this is true in a much broader sense. Christians must accept modern science of the religion will die out to nothing but an obscure cult within a generation or two.
    Some churches try to explain or preach in two languages, one of them being English so the people can understand. They even have bible study sessions, if people show up to learn, that is.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Yes, but the Protestant response is that Paul was talking about oral tradition received directly from an Apostle - not traditions made up by wacky guys in pointy hats and funny dresses a thousand years later! Big difference in my estimation ...
    Hi Richard,
    Are you sure about that? In his letter to Timothy, Paul lays out several "generations" of succession after he taught Timothy. So, it seems Paul sanctioned a succession of teachers ("able to teach others"):

    Paul
    Timothy
    Timothy's students ("faithful men")
    Timothy's students' students ("others")

    2 Timothy 2:1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

    How many layers of authorized teachers should Paul describe to show "Apostolically approved" succession of instruction? On what basis would you say only the Apostles provided oral inspired revelation?

    Dave
    Last edited by basilfo; 10-07-2010 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    Hi Richard,
    Are you sure about that? In his letter to Timothy, Paul lays out several "generations" of succession after he taught Timothy. So, it seems Paul sanctioned a succession of teachers ("able to teach others"):

    Paul
    Timothy
    Timothy's students ("faithful men")
    Timothy's students' students ("others")

    2 Timothy 2:1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

    How many layers of authorized teachers should Paul describe to show "Apostolically approved" succession of instruction? On what basis would you say only the Apostles provided oral inspired revelation?

    Dave
    1Corinthians is the epistle where the Apostle Paul says that in simplicity he preached the Gospel, in plain language. In the Catholic and Orthodox churches they try to preserve the old languages. But in time the languages change.
    1 Corinthians 2
    1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
    2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
    Besides...the old testament has ceremonies that people hardly dare interpret them. I'm sure there are many mysteries on the tabernacle as I read in Hebrews that the writer (assuming Paul) says that he can't go through it at the moment because we are dull of hearing. I WANT to hear those things. But nobody talks about it. Many pastors don't even KNOW it.
    Studying the Tabernacle in Exodus
    Last edited by gilgal; 10-07-2010 at 01:36 PM.

  5. #25
    Matthew... 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[b] and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.


    When one gets to the point of being able to close the Bible and 'listen' to our True Teacher who has written His Law on our hearts, only then will we have a taste of the True freedom that the Beloved has prepared for us.

    The more rules they make..the more sin they create..and this is what keeps many 'grounded'.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon View Post
    Matthew... 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[b] and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.


    When one gets to the point of being able to close the Bible and 'listen' to our True Teacher who has written His Law on our hearts, only then will we have a taste of the True freedom that the Beloved has prepared for us.

    The more rules they make..the more sin they create..and this is what keeps many 'grounded'.
    Hi Sharon,

    Welcome to our forum!



    You post presents me with a challenge. How would I know anything about our "True Teacher" if I didn't open the Bible? And if I close the Bible and listen to my own "feelings" why did I need the Bible in the first place?

    Your comment generates a lot of questions in my mind. That's the sign of a good post!

    All then best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #27
    There is much Knowledge in the Bible that most people could not 'see' up until now. Even the Lord spoke of this and had written that 'they will read the words like illiterate children..but then eyes and ears will be opened'. This meaning a higher understanding..and along with that..He also said that His mysteries will be revealed.

    Here is a verse that will make you think also...

    'He BOWED the HEAVENS and come down..'

    Think about this verse. How many Times have you read this WITHOUT really 'hearing' it?? Think about it and then 'see' the chain reaction of understanding that will come..ie..once the Spirit shows you the meaning of the first verse, this next one will just open up..

    'With the Lord a day can be a thousand years and a thousand years can be a day..'

    Regards...Sharon.

  8. #28
    ...and thankyou for the kind welcome!!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon View Post
    There is much Knowledge in the Bible that most people could not 'see' up until now. Even the Lord spoke of this and had written that 'they will read the words like illiterate children..but then eyes and ears will be opened'. This meaning a higher understanding..and along with that..He also said that His mysteries will be revealed.

    Here is a verse that will make you think also...

    'He BOWED the HEAVENS and come down..'

    Think about this verse. How many Times have you read this WITHOUT really 'hearing' it?? Think about it and then 'see' the chain reaction of understanding that will come..ie..once the Spirit shows you the meaning of the first verse, this next one will just open up..

    'With the Lord a day can be a thousand years and a thousand years can be a day..'

    Regards...Sharon.
    Are you relating this to the curvature of space-time in General Relativity?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #30
    I am. Here is a generation that praises einstein's theories when it has been written many centuries before him...right in front of the eyes of many..yet not noticed. I do not believe the human brain just 'discovers' this knowledge all on it's own..which is why it is written..'do not brag about men!!' What I have been shown is that knowledge is given to us..just as David wrote. The prophets were in 'contact' with beings that were from God and, in some cases, God Himself..and shown the future events (just as Jesus spoke of the future also..hence the statement..'It is ALREADY done)'.

    There is sooooo much Knowledge in the Scripts and it doesn't matter if some of the words have been changed or whether a Script is authentic or not. The fact is, if God is guiding, He will show the Truth..even from a false script (even the darkness is Light to Him).

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