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  1. #1
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    Catholic Answers Censored the Bible Wheel!

    ================================================== =========
    Update 9/28/10: For accuracy and respect towards Catholics in general, I have edited this post to remove some of the unnecessarily inflammatory comments that I wrote in the heat of the moment. I was utterly shocked and dismayed to have the conversation cut short just when I felt progress was being made, and I think I over-reacted and even conflated some of these events with some past abuse I have received on other (Protestant) forums. After posting and reviewing the entire thread, I see that my comments were not completely accurate. I apologize to any and all who may have been offended, and I will seek to do better from now on.
    ================================================== =========

    On Sept 14, 2010 a user v1gilbert began a thread on the Catholic Answers forum with these words:
    I was challenged by a person to look, with an open mind, at the claims of The Bible Wheel; those claims basically add up to the following:

    The Protestant Canon of Scripture was divinely inspired, thus excluding Catholic and Orthodox.

    It was all very mathematical, complex and convoluted so I don't want to take my time in trying to understand it to refute it; I was hoping someone here had already come across a good debunking article or website.

    Here is the website:

    www.biblewheel.com
    The post continued with an explanation of the Bible Wheel that I had written on some forum long ago.

    The thread quickly took off. In less than two weeks it had nearly 3000 views. I was assaulted with all the typical and predictable ignorant, moronic, and indeed, godless comments that most "Christians" seem to have built in as part of their genetic code. They asked if I had taken my meds. They made jokes about dartboards and steering wheels. They likened me to Joseph Smith and called the Bible Wheel "anti-Christian." One person implied I was schizophrenic and another said I was either a heretic or an unbeliever.

    As many of these empty, ignorant, and abusive posts began to accumulate, one member, InspiritCarol, declared that the Bible Wheel had been completely refuted and so there was no need to present any more evidence since it would just fall on "deaf ears." Here is the interaction I had with her in Post #137 in which she had presented a ludicrous list of moronic posts as if they actually contained some refutation of the Bible Wheel:

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMcGough
    Quote Originally Posted by InspritCarol
    I invite you to please revisit post #’s: 2, 3, 7, 11, 13, 14, 17, 19, 21, especially 29, 30, especially 40, 44, especially 48, 61, 73 an on and on; I feel that I could sit here all night typing examples of what is wrong with the “Bible Wheel” but it would fall on deaf ears. For a powerful example of pattern application check out the Ron Howard film “A Beautiful Mind”.
    Your comment contains three fundamental errors.

    1) Most of the posts you cite do not even contain an attempt to refute the BW, let alone a valid refutation. Indeed, most of the posts you cite have little if anything to do with anything I have ever written! For example, the first post you cite (#2) begins with a string of unsupported assertions like it's "hogwash" and "a game that anyone can play." There is nothing in that post that actually engages any statement that I have ever made. It is therefore absurd in the extreme for you to include it in your list. Likewise, post #3 begins with the completely irrelevant comment that "The Bible is not a code to deciphered." Again, this has nothing to do with anything I have ever asserted about the BW. And the pattern continues. The next post your cite (#7) makes no direct statement about anything I have written. And the next post you cite (#11) makes the false assertion that I appealed to the Sepher Yetzirah as an authoritative basis for the BW. Victor corrected this error when he explained the obvious, namely, that the Sepher Yetzirah gave me an heuristic motivation to put the books in a circle. I have NEVER claimed it has any authority. I could go on like this through nearly every post your cited. Your list is absurd in the extreme. How in the world did you think you could fool people? Did you think that no one would actually read the posts you cited???

    2) I am not deaf. On the contrary, I have been gifted with a most acute sense of "hearing" false arguments against the BW and I am always eager to answer any attempt at any refutation.

    3) I read "A Beautiful Mind" and I saw the movie. Your implicit association of my work with the schizophrenic ravings of John Nash is outside the bounds of rational discourse. You owe me an apology.

    You now have a choice. You can produce one serious refutation of something I have written, or you can admit that your feeling that you "could sit here all night typing examples of what is wrong with the Bible Wheel" is not based on fact. Personally, I hope you choose the former. It should be interesting. And besides, given your level of confidence, it should only take you a few minutes, right?

    May God bless you richly,

    Richard
    To Carol's credit, she apologized for implying I was "schizophrenic." One other user, teak421, also apologized for speaking out of ignorance. I was beginning to get hopeful that a genuine fruitful discussion of my work might finally be possible.

    As the thread continued, I answered every question with ease and with each answer the evidence for the validity of the Bible Wheel began to blaze like the noontime sun in a cloudless sky. So Catholic Answers had no choice. They could not merely ban me and leave the thread, since that would leave all the evidence in place. So they followed the path of all tyrants - they censored the evidence! Catholic Answers DELETED THE ENTIRE THREAD!

    The thread was pretty young. It only had 12 pages but already outranked most other threads for views. Thankfully, I was able to save the last four pages (which were the pages I had participated in) because they were in the cache on my own machine, and I was able to save most of the other pages because they were already cached on Google (link). So I have all the evidence of the suppression of truth by Catholic Answers.

    I consider this a PUBLIC DECLARATION by Catholic Answers that they are absolutely incapable of refuting the Bible Wheel.

    I invite all Catholics (and any other interested parties) to this forum to correct anything they think might be a misrepresentation of this situation. And don't worry, I won't CENSOR THE EVIDENCE to protect my position.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #2
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    I have posted the entire thread that Catholic Answers foolishly thought they could hide. The first 100 posts can be read here, and the final 76 posts here.

    Be sure to check my blog for further updates.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
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    Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice" (John 10).

    There might be some who discredit simply because they either haven't read it or are either paid or highly influential people.

    But thank God for those who did understand your website RAM!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice" (John 10).

    There might be some who discredit simply because they either haven't read it or are either paid or highly influential people.

    But thank God for those who did understand your website RAM!
    Thanks for the good words my friend.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Thanks for the good words my friend.
    Maybe you can show them the rise and captivity of the Catholic church in the biblewheel and post-christian history.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Maybe you can show them the rise and captivity of the Catholic church in the biblewheel and post-christian history.
    I think that would be an exercise in futility. You can lead a horse to water ...

    Catholics will see any facts that support the Protestant Bible as a threat to their religion, and so they fight the truth any way necessary.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I think that would be an exercise in futility. You can lead a horse to water ...

    Catholics will see any facts that support the Protestant Bible as a threat to their religion, and so they fight the truth any way necessary.
    Some criticize that the glass is half empty and some compliment that it's half full. There might be some who WILL believe and glorify God. Our job is not to convince the world but the elect. Jesus told those who asked him if he's the Messiah, "You're not of my sheep" (John 10).

  8. #8
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    Horse sense or horse what?..

    [QUOTE=RAM;24456]I think that would be an exercise in futility. You can lead a horse to water ...

    Your right rich. You can lead a horse to water but perfume must be scent.

    You can drive a horse to water but a pencil must be lead.

    Alec

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