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  1. #1
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    By What Authority?

    Here's a simple question that might generate an interesting discussion:

    What authority should believers use to determine which writings are to be part of the Biblical Canon and which are not?

    Peace to you,
    Dave

  2. #2
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    Perhaps a more focused question would be:

    Who can identify the authority that the Reformers used to remove the 7 OT Scriptures that Christianity had considered part of the Canon up to the 16th century?

    Dave

  3. #3
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    Thee author

    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    Here's a simple question that might generate an interesting discussion:

    What authority should believers use to determine which writings are to be part of the Biblical Canon and which are not?

    Peace to you,
    Dave
    I am convinced that the authority which we should use is the divine authority. I believe that God directed the hand , heart and mind of the translators. Granted , there are a few minor errors , but who am I to question the morives or actions of the allmighty. If anyone thinks that the apochrypha is or should be included in the canon , then let that person apply the acid test. Does it carry the D.N.A of gematria. If any books were written in old testament times , are they quoted in the new? If not then there is good reason to suspect them.
    Alec

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alec cotton View Post
    I am convinced that the authority which we should use is the divine authority.
    Hi Alec,
    Agree totally. You do realize that, by definition, that "the divine authority" spoke to the early church OUTSIDE of Scripture when He established the table of contents of the Word of God. We know this because there is no list of books considered Canonical WITHIN Scripture. No OT writer listed the OT books, neither did Jesus or the apostles list the NT or OT books. So the Canon (what's in and what's out) was revealed by God through the Church, not through Scripture.

    I believe that God directed the hand , heart and mind of the translators. Granted , there are a few minor errors , but who am I to question the morives or actions of the allmighty.
    This speaks to accuracy of different translations, which is another subject. This thread is about how the Table of Contents of the Word of God was established.

    If anyone thinks that the apochrypha is or should be included in the canon , then let that person apply the acid test. Does it carry the D.N.A of gematria.
    Huh?? Who came up with that "acid test"?? The establishment of the Canon of Scripture had nothing to do with "gematria". That is a very recent concept.
    The early Church was guided over the first few centuries by the Holy Spirit to establish the Canon.


    If any books were written in old testament times , are they quoted in the new? If not then there is good reason to suspect them.
    Alec
    You may want to rethink your other "acid test", Alec. Because there are several OT books that are not quoted in the NT. I don't have the list handy, but will post them tomorrow. And there's another small problem with your "acid test": The NT quotes from other non-Canonical writings like the book of Enoch, and even some of the Apocraphal books.

    So, any other ideas about By What Authority we get the Canon??

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    Hi Alec,
    Agree totally. You do realize that, by definition, that "the divine authority" spoke to the early church OUTSIDE of Scripture when He established the table of contents of the Word of God. We know this because there is no list of books considered Canonical WITHIN Scripture. No OT writer listed the OT books, neither did Jesus or the apostles list the NT or OT books. So the Canon (what's in and what's out) was revealed by God through the Church, not through Scripture.
    True ... BUT it was not established by council so much as by common usage amongst the congregations.

    The bulk of the canon was mysteriously "common" to all "Christians" long before any lists were made or councils to discuss it. The disputed books were few - James, 2,3 John, 2 Peter, Jude, and Revelation IIRC. Maybe Hebrews too ...

    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    Huh?? Who came up with that "acid test"?? The establishment of the Canon of Scripture had nothing to do with "gematria". That is a very recent concept.
    The early Church was guided over the first few centuries by the Holy Spirit to establish the Canon.
    Gematria is absolutely incapable of settling this issue. I'm pretty sure there are books in the 66 book canon that are not distinguishable from the Apocrypha via gematria.

    As for the guidance of the Holy Spirit - why did he allow the Shepherd of Hermes and the Book of Enoch in some congregations?

    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    You may want to rethink your other "acid test", Alec. Because there are several OT books that are not quoted in the NT. I don't have the list handy, but will post them tomorrow. And there's another small problem with your "acid test": The NT quotes from other non-Canonical writings like the book of Enoch, and even some of the Apocraphal books.
    Yep - and some Christians accept those books as Scripture. The Ethiopian branch of the GO church has an 88 book canon IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    So, any other ideas about By What Authority we get the Canon??
    Simple answer - there was no "authority." It is either an "accident" of history or the "hidden hand of God."

    So how now can we know? Again, I think the Bible Wheel is totally obvious proof, but no one cares, so why should I? I'm not interested in correcting any of the crazy ideas that dominate all Christians institution. I think they are all on their way out, and that's a good thing.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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