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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    Sylvy.. Is it (a) or (b)? Maybe both?
    both
    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    And, if the preterist god is as bad as that, why are so many praising him?
    Ask Richard and Rose.

    The preterist God is a rapist too.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    Sylvy.. Is it (a) or (b)? Maybe both? Have heard that Hitler planned to re-write the New Testament -- what about that?
    And, if the preterist god is as bad as that, why are so many praising him?
    Hey Duxrox,

    One big reason the Biblegod gets so much praise, is because the Bible tells people to praise him! Most Christians believe the Bible is true simply because that is what they are taught, and they never dig deeply into what it really says about the nature of its god. If they did I'm sure many would be shocked! Scripture is filled with atrocities and a good share of them are commanded and decreed by Yahweh ... it's all there in black and white from Genesis to Revelation.

    Best regards,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #13
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    The fly in the ointment is about the "Two gods" (Creator + satan), and how the rapist is satan, even though the Bible desires "Christ in you", or Christ be formed in you, Gal 4:19. Modern medicine knows how Joy of the Lord will be a health benefit, and might even help the Rosemaries. eh?
    2Cor4:4 Tells of the "god of this world", so we would be warned of him and his devices; namely liars, thieves, and wickedness.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  4. #14
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    Rose, I like to tease, but have to be careful -- one grand-daughter almost goes to tears, while another gives back even more fierce; as if to humor me.. Fortunately they've both turned out really well, so no serious harm done, IMO.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  5. #15
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    Hitler was not just a Christian, but a Preterist Christian:

    http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

    "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    The fly in the ointment is about the "Two gods" (Creator + satan), and how the rapist is satan, even though the Bible desires "Christ in you", or Christ be formed in you, Gal 4:19. Modern medicine knows how Joy of the Lord will be a health benefit, and might even help the Rosemaries. eh?
    2Cor4:4 Tells of the "god of this world", so we would be warned of him and his devices; namely liars, thieves, and wickedness.
    Hello Dux

    It is a pity the translators did not use the neuter when referring to Satan. I see you have used the pronoun "him" when really the pronoun "it" would be better, because "it" does not conjure up in the mind an image of a personal being like the word "him" does. Satan is often personified in the Bible and this gives a simplified image of an otherwise multitude of ways the term "satan" applies. We might call the car we own by a personal name and so we have personified it. Ships are given names and at the time of naming the ship, the ship is referred to as; "her". In the same way that "her" does not imply a ship is a person, so satan should not be thought of as a person, because the word "him" is used.

    To quote 2 Cor 4:4 in full; In whom the god (an "it") of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Of course, when a language does not have a neuter pronoun and we are stuck with masculine and feminine genders only, then we have a problem when translating to English.

    Like the word "he" or "him", when used repeatedly in the same sentence, as found in Colossians 1:16-20, we have to work out whether "he", or "him", or "himself" refers to God, or Christ.


    All the best
    David

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hey Duxrox,

    One big reason the Biblegod gets so much praise, is because the Bible tells people to praise him! Most Christians believe the Bible is true simply because that is what they are taught, and they never dig deeply into what it really says about the nature of its god. If they did I'm sure many would be shocked! Scripture is filled with atrocities and a good share of them are commanded and decreed by Yahweh ... it's all there in black and white from Genesis to Revelation.

    Best regards,
    Rose
    Hello Rose
    Did you ever stop to analyze passages like the following;

    Jeremiah 13
    8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
    10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
    11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
    12 Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
    13 Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
    14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
    15 Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.
    16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
    17 But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the Lord's flock is carried away captive.
    18 Say unto the king and to the queen, Humble yourselves, sit down: for your principalities shall come down, even the crown of your glory.
    19 The cities of the south shall be shut up, and none shall open them: Judah shall be carried away captive all of it, it shall be wholly carried away captive.
    20 Lift up your eyes, and behold them that come from the north: where is the flock that was given thee, thy beautiful flock?
    21 What wilt thou say when he shall punish thee? for thou hast taught them to be captains, and as chief over thee: shall not sorrows take thee, as a woman in travail?
    22 And if thou say in thine heart, Wherefore come these things upon me? For the greatness of thine iniquity are thy skirts discovered, and thy heels made bare.
    23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
    24 Therefore will I scatter them as the stubble that passeth away by the wind of the wilderness.
    25 This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the LORD; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood.
    26 Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.
    27 I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?
    I suggest that when you understand this properly, you will see that the fault lies with man and God is acting impartially when it comes to giving out some form of penalty. Phrases like; I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness. appears to be saying that God is deliberately making the people that way. What the passage is actually saying is that God let's the people act that way until all are become drunk. When the people think in delusional ways and refuse to hear the words of God, so God can easily send a delusional message such that the people will latch on to that delusion. Whether God does something directly or indirectly, the people are at fault to begin with.

    I know you have got to the stage where you do not look for the wisdom that is in the Bible. Instead, you are promulgating your own set of lies, which you would say is expressing your opinion. I can only hope that those who read your rants against the Bible are not so gullible as to accept what you say without first analyzing the Bible to see what it really means. The truth of what is the truth has to be searched for and I doubt you ever found the truth and because of that, you do not have a "pearl of great price" to lose. Just like God's people whom he destroyed through "lack of knowledge" of him and his ways, because they had become "dull of hearing" and so closed their minds to God, the same applies to you.

    All the best
    David

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    It is a pity the translators did not use the neuter when referring to Satan. I see you have used the pronoun "him" when really the pronoun "it" would be better, because "it" does not conjure up in the mind an image of a personal being like the word "him" does. Satan is often personified in the Bible and this gives a simplified image of an otherwise multitude of ways the term "satan" applies. We might call the car we own by a personal name and so we have personified it. Ships are given names and at the time of naming the ship, the ship is referred to as; "her". In the same way that "her" does not imply a ship is a person, so satan should not be thought of as a person, because the word "him" is used.

    To quote 2 Cor 4:4 in full; In whom the god (an "it") of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    Of course, when a language does not have a neuter pronoun and we are stuck with masculine and feminine genders only, then we have a problem when translating to English.

    Like the word "he" or "him", when used repeatedly in the same sentence, as found in Colossians 1:16-20, we have to work out whether "he", or "him", or "himself" refers to God, or Christ. All the best David

    Good food for thought, David, and I agree with your sentiment about IT, but when I imagine (try to picture) the scene from Job 2, it forces the issue for me. Proper English not as important as seeing Satan has many metaphors (as does Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit).

    Personally, I usually think of satan more as a kind of spiritual friction.. hah
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose

    I suggest that when you understand this properly, you will see that the fault lies with man and God is acting impartially when it comes to giving out some form of penalty. Phrases like; I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness. appears to be saying that God is deliberately making the people that way. What the passage is actually saying is that God let's the people act that way until all are become drunk. When the people think in delusional ways and refuse to hear the words of God, so God can easily send a delusional message such that the people will latch on to that delusion. Whether God does something directly or indirectly, the people are at fault to begin with.
    Hello David,

    For a person like you who holds the Bible to be the word of god, have you ever stopped and tried to understand what a passage like Jeremiah 1:5 means?
    Jer.1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    According to that verse, god is intimately involved with the formation of Jeremiahs soul and spirit. There is no impartiality whatsoever in god's actions, he created the person he wanted to be his prophet. If you believe that god created every human soul just like he did with Jeremiah, then you must also believe that god is responsible for how each person turns out ... even if they have free will.


    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    I know you have got to the stage where you do not look for the wisdom that is in the Bible. Instead, you are promulgating your own set of lies, which you would say is expressing your opinion. I can only hope that those who read your rants against the Bible are not so gullible as to accept what you say without first analyzing the Bible to see what it really means. The truth of what is the truth has to be searched for and I doubt you ever found the truth and because of that, you do not have a "pearl of great price" to lose. Just like God's people whom he destroyed through "lack of knowledge" of him and his ways, because they had become "dull of hearing" and so closed their minds to God, the same applies to you.

    All the best
    David
    I also would hope that all those who read my charges against the Bible, would look deeply into Scripture as I have done, to see for themselves what is written there. Everything that I say against the Bible, is backed up by what is actually written there, I have made nothing up.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello David,

    For a person like you who holds the Bible to be the word of god, have you ever stopped and tried to understand what a passage like Jeremiah 1:5 means?
    Jer.1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    According to that verse, god is intimately involved with the formation of Jeremiahs soul and spirit. There is no impartiality whatsoever in god's actions, he created the person he wanted to be his prophet. If you believe that god created every human soul just like he did with Jeremiah, then you must also believe that god is responsible for how each person turns out ... even if they have free will.




    I also would hope that all those who read my charges against the Bible, would look deeply into Scripture as I have done, to see for themselves what is written there. Everything that I say against the Bible, is backed up by what is actually written there, I have made nothing up.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Rose misinterpreted the Jeremiah's verse.

    The verse, "Jer.1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." sounds as if a doctor is looking at an X ray film of a fetus and saying, "before you were born I know how you look like, what gender you are and from your genetics test, your physical makeup, your characters and future profile". God obviously knew us before you were born...our physical and genetic makeup but what God may not know is what is the future outcome of an individual due to our free-will as a person's personalities is based on the inherited genetic makeup of the parents and the environment that one interacts. if one is born from good parents and evil environment, there is a chance that the person may be influenced by the evil environment and becomes evil; same with evil parents and good environment. It is a noted fact that personalities is molded from the joint interactions of the inherited makeup of the parents and the environment i.e. Nature versus Nurture; Hereditary versus Environment. see wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_psychology

    Jesus seems to confirm so in His parable below when he seems to say that God created man but not knowing how he may developed into good or bad but when man has reached maturity and at the ripe time, He will gather them up:

    Mark 4:26-29 — The Growing Seed
    He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed
    26
    on the ground. Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and
    27
    grows, though he does not know how. All by itself the soil produces grain—first
    28
    the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head. As soon as the grain is
    29
    ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come.”


    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 04-12-2014 at 08:41 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

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