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Thread: SHECHEM

  1. #51
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    Jun 2007
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    195
    Hi Richard,
    Sour today? I thought you knew me better than that! Have I ever said that SALVATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS / Y'SHUA is possible? Show me the post!
    Jealous of God's irrevocable call to HIS people the JEWS?
    We are supposed to make THEM jealous -
    Romans 11:11
    Hence I ask, did they stumble so as to fall? Of course NOT! But through their transgression (not accepting Y'SHUA / JESUS as Messiah) salvation has come to the Gentiles (non Jews - not from the 12 Tribes) so as to make them jealous. (12) Now if their transgression is enrichment for the world, and if their diminished number is enrichment for the Gentiles, how much more their FULL NUMBER. Now I'm speaking to you Gentiles - (hello RIchard...). Inasmuch then as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I glory in my ministry (14) in order to make MY RACE (THE JEWS) jealous and thus SAVE SOME OF THEM (HIS RACE the JEWS) - (15) For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the WORLD, what will their acceptance (of Y'shua/JESUS as LORD & SAVIOR) be but LIFE FROM THE DEAD? (16) If the firstfruits are holy, so is the whole batch of dough; and if the root is holy, so are the branches."
    : Romans 11:25 : I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, Brothers, (hello?) , so that you will not become wise in your own estimation; a hardening has come upon ISRAEL in part, until the full number of the GENTILES comes in, (26) and thus ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED, as it is written: The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will turn away godlessness fron Jacob: and this is MY CONVENANT with them, when I take away their sins." (28) In respect to the GOSPEL (THE NEW TESTAMENT) they (The Jewish People) are enemies on your (Gentiles) account; but in respect to election, they are beloved, because of the PATRIARCHS. "FOR THE GIFTS and the CALL OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE."

    Thank God the LORD is not a promise breaker and HE never changes HIS MIND - therefore we can trust His Covenant and KNOW that HE will open their eyes as JESUS so clearly says in Matthews 13:14 : Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled in them which says: You shall indeed hear but not understand, you shall indeed look but never see. Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they SEE with their eyes and HEAR with their ears and UNDERSTAND with their heart and be CONVERTED and I (JESUS / Y'SHUA) HEAL THEM." It is HIS duty, HIS priviledge, HIS plan, to open their eyes to HIMSELF - Is anything to hard for HIM? ( HIM = JESUS / Y'SHUA).

    If anybody can enter the KINGDOM OF GOD without accepting JESUS CHRIST as LORD AND SAVIOR, then HIS DEATH on the cross became meaningless and was good for nothing. Do we agree on that RICHARD?

    All of Romans 9-11 (notice 911 hint, hint,)is important - too long to quote besides:
    11:32 : "FOR GOD DELIVERED ALL TO DISOBEDIENCE, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY UPON ALL." And we NEED HIS MERCY - mercy upon all - that is Jews, Christians, Muslims, the whole world.

    The road is narrow, the gate is high...
    Shalom / Peace to JERUSALEM and the HOLY LAND
    Shalom to you Richard - LIGHTEN UP - I'M A SOLDIER FOR CHRIST
    Shalom to all who LOVE JESUS and ISRAEL
    Blessings - PSALM 122:6
    White

    PS Jeremiah 31:31-34, Ezekiel 37:15-28, Isaiah 19:25, Amos 9:11-15 etc.
    Ezekiel 33:1-7 - ... When I bring the sword against a country... and the watchman seeing the sword coming against the country, blows the trumpet to warn the people... (I'm blowing the trumpet - anybody listening?) (7) You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel: when you hear me say anything, you shall warn them for me.

    What good is all the argueing, I'm now going to pray for my hour with the LORD - and I'm praying especially for the Jewish People. That the LORD would open their eyes to HIMSELF. Good NIGHT.
    Last edited by White; 07-23-2007 at 09:45 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Hi Richard,
    Sour today? I thought you knew me better than that! Have I ever said that SALVATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS / Y'SHUA is possible? Show me the post!
    I wish I did "know you better than that" White! But the only way I can get to know you is to read what you write, and when I do, I find things that are extremely troubling, so I tried to talk to you about them (in a gentle tone, I might add) and then you completely misunderstood my questions about your doctrine as being questions about your personal faith, and then you ignored all my attempts to clarify and you ignored all my simple and straightforward questions. So how was I supposed to "know" what you meant? You refused to talk to me, and continued writing things that certainly seem to contradict the plain teaching of the Bible on many points.

    So what did you mean when you lumped the 12 unbelieving tribes in with the believing Christians as "God's People"? You have said things that don't make any sense to me. On the one hand, you say the 10 tribes are Catholics and Christians and then you say that the 12 tribes (which you seem to identify as the unbelieving fleshly sons of Abraham) are "God's People" along with the Catholics and Christians. Its all very confusing, and it really seems far removed from the teaching of the Bible about the fleshly sons of Abraham. But you won't discuss this, so how in the world am I supposed to "know you better than that"?

    You wrote a long post with lots of red highlights, but you did not address the point of my last post.

    Do you understand what I am saying? Its like this: You wrote ABC. I responded specifically to ABC and wrote DEF. You then ignored both ABC and DEF and wrote the non-sequitur QW833LF8.

    I would like to have a conversation with you about the things you believe. Its really very simple. If I ask a question, just answer the question directly. Then you can ask me a question, and I will do my best to answer directly, so we both will be tracking with each other, and hopefully be able to understand each other.

    Peace in Christ,

    Richard

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Shalom to you Richard - LIGHTEN UP - I'M A SOLDIER FOR CHRIST
    You're a soldier for Christ?

    Amen!

    I'm a Sergeant for Christ. He called to toughen up the troops.

    As for lightening up ... I have been going light! You should should see me when I have to be tough! It is necessary preparation for the spiritual battle that lies ahead.

    Carry on, Soldier!

    Richard


  4. #54
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    Who are God's Children?

    Hi Folks,

    I moved White's latest post to its own thread called "Who are Gods' Children?" so this thread can get back to its already very dispersed topic on Shechem. I encourage everyone interested in that other issue to participate there.

    For those who want to discuss Shechem, it is time to get ...


    Richard

  5. #55
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    Jul 2007
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    Saint Louis area
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    I'll see if we can't get some discussion going on this thread again.........


    BODY(physical)..........MIND(legal)............. SPIRIT(living)

    We call our Holy book by three different names not realizing sometimes the origin and differences between them.....

    BIBLE
    SCRIPTURES
    the WORD

    The Hebrew and Greek words that correspond to these are:

    1. BIBLE.....................cepher.................. biblos (314)
    2. SCRIPTURES............katav.................. graphe (612)
    3. WORD.....................dabar................... logos (373)

    The first group corresponding to BIBLE describe the PHYSICAL object....a BOOK

    The second group corresponding to SCRIPTURES describe the MENTAL teachings or writings

    The third group corresponding to the WORD describe the LIVING (SPIRITUAL) aspect.



    We are joined to Christ in body, mind and spirit:

    1. The PHYSICAL joining to the body is accomplished in our MARRIAGE to him:
    Eph 5:30-31 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    MARRIAGE = 314 (Mt 22:2)




    2. The MENTAL or LEGAL joining to Christ is accomplished by the new COVENANT:
    2Co 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
    1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
    Jer 31:33 (NLT) "But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the LORD. "I will put my laws in their minds(AV-inward parts..qereb, the seat of thoughts and emotions), and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


    COVENANT = 612




    3. We are joined in SPIRIT to Christ being born again by the LOGOS (Word), becoming with him the inheritor of the birthright of the firstborn....the double portion....which is "SHECHEM ACHAD" (one shoulder, one consent, one accord)

    1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn
    Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


    SHECHEM ACHAD = 373




    1. BIBLE.....................cepher..................biblos (314) = marriage (physical oneness)
    2. SCRIPTURES............katav..................graphe(612) = covenant (legal oneness)
    3. WORD.....................dabar...................logos (373) = Shechem achad (spitual oneness)



    314 + 612 + 373 = 1299 1299 = rhema (Luke 24:8)

    1Pe 1:25 But the word (rhema) of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word(rhema) which by the gospel is preached unto you.


    Last edited by yinonyavo; 08-27-2007 at 01:52 PM. Reason: value of marriage should be 314

  6. #56
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    NE Tennessee
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    5

    RE:Shechem

    Shalom to all;
    Just a short note on the spiritual implications of what I have read here so far.
    As was mentioned, Abram, father of faith, first pitched his tent there. Between the two mountains,
    Gerizim= the mt of Blessings
    Ebal = the mt of curses
    It was between these two Mountains that Mose brought the children of Israel, and he (Moses) placed a priest on the top of each mountain, on Gerizim, the preast read aloud to the hearing of the people, the blessings of God. From Mt Ebal a priest read aloud to the hearing of the people, the curses of God. Moses told the people:
    Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
    It was here, that Moses said:
    Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    Remember that in the "mouths of two or three witnesses that truth is established, and testified to.

    Spiritually, I see the following
    When we come to faith (as represented by Abram) we walk in a valley (the world) and we carry the burden (our choice) upon our shoulder (shechem) of God's truth. We are to choose (this day) between God's Torah (His teaching and instructions) and worldly pursuits.

    Concerning the rape of Dinah, and the subsequent avenging of that defilement. The name Dinah means "Judgment or one who judges"
    Spiritually, one's choice of the blessings (by following God's instructions) or the curses (by disobedience) leads to God's judgment (and our future) which brings us back to the "place" where it all (our faith) began. It began when we were called (like out of ur?) and the burden of the Lord was placed upon our shoulder (Shechem). It is written:
    Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
    The yoke was carried upon the Shechem

    Another interesting insight is when Joseph was sent to his brethren, who should have been at Shechem, (bearing [shouldering]their burden) tending the sheep, but instead, were at Dothan.
    The LOrd told Peter "if you love me, feed MY sheep"
    The name means "two wells".
    We cannot drink from two wells, the well of the world, and the well of our salvation, for as it is written:
    Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
    Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
    Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
    The spiritual implications here are very deep, and affect our eternal destiny.

    Let this be a spiritual lesson for us all
    Let us choose this day, and choose life

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Seoul, Korea (originally from Auckland, New Zealand)
    Posts
    253

    Thoughts

    Hello yinonyavo!

    My initial thoughts on your divisions of:
    1. Bible - biblos - marriage
    2. Scriptures - graphe - covenant
    3. Word - logos - shechem echad
    It's an interesting attempt to find order from these concepts, if indeed order is meant to be found.

    Concerning (1), wouldn't it make more sense to apply the concept of marriage here to the fact that the Bible is composed of an Old and a New Testament? As the Bible is a book, the physical elements of that book are its two covenants.

    Concerning (2), I would liken your concept more to that of a written language, what the linguist de Saussure referred to as langue. By way of contrast, I would liken your concept at (3) to de Saussure's parole, which is language being spoken, the langue in action, as it were.

    The first concept at (1) is a wee bit problematic as I don't think the Bible uses the word biblos to refer to itself or to the Scriptures, at least not as a corpus. However, in fairness, it is the first word of the New Testament. At best, in a roundabout kind of way, it might be said at a pinch that we use the word biblos retrospectively to refer to the Bible.

    Stephen
    "And the watchman told, saying, 'The driving is like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi; for he driveth furiously'

  8. #58
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
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    255
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarah View Post
    Shalom to all;
    Just a short note on the spiritual implications of what I have read here so far.
    As was mentioned, Abram, father of faith, first pitched his tent there. Between the two mountains,
    Gerizim= the mt of Blessings
    Ebal = the mt of curses
    It was between these two Mountains that Mose brought the children of Israel, and he (Moses) placed a priest on the top of each mountain, on Gerizim, the preast read aloud to the hearing of the people, the blessings of God. From Mt Ebal a priest read aloud to the hearing of the people, the curses of God. Moses told the people:
    Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
    It was here, that Moses said:
    Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    Remember that in the "mouths of two or three witnesses that truth is established, and testified to.

    Spiritually, I see the following
    When we come to faith (as represented by Abram) we walk in a valley (the world) and we carry the burden (our choice) upon our shoulder (shechem) of God's truth. We are to choose (this day) between God's Torah (His teaching and instructions) and worldly pursuits.

    Concerning the rape of Dinah, and the subsequent avenging of that defilement. The name Dinah means "Judgment or one who judges"
    Spiritually, one's choice of the blessings (by following God's instructions) or the curses (by disobedience) leads to God's judgment (and our future) which brings us back to the "place" where it all (our faith) began. It began when we were called (like out of ur?) and the burden of the Lord was placed upon our shoulder (Shechem). It is written:
    Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
    The yoke was carried upon the Shechem

    Another interesting insight is when Joseph was sent to his brethren, who should have been at Shechem, (bearing [shouldering]their burden) tending the sheep, but instead, were at Dothan.
    The LOrd told Peter "if you love me, feed MY sheep"
    The name means "two wells".
    We cannot drink from two wells, the well of the world, and the well of our salvation, for as it is written:
    Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
    Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
    Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
    The spiritual implications here are very deep, and affect our eternal destiny.

    Let this be a spiritual lesson for us all
    Let us choose this day, and choose life
    I've read this passage - several times. Today my ear was awake - my faith is increased, especially in the trial I am facing. Todah Rabah
    Jeremiah 20:9 " But His word was in my heart like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    195
    Hi Stephen and all,

    Concerning (1), wouldn't it make more sense to apply the concept of marriage here to the fact that the Bible is composed of an Old and a New Testament? As the Bible is a book, the physical elements of that book are its two covenants.

    This quote of yours reminds me of

    Song of Solomon 6:13 (King James Version)

    13Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.


    New Living Translation (NLT)


    Young Women of Jerusalem
    13 [a]Return, return to us, O maid of Shulam.
    Come back, come back, that we may see you again.
    Young Man
    Why do you stare at this young woman of Shulam,
    as she moves so gracefully [B]between two lines of dancers?

    Footnotes:

    Song of Solomon 6:13 Verse 6:13 is numbered 7:1 in Hebrew text.
    Song of Solomon 6:13 Or as you would at the movements of two armies? or as you would at the dance of Mahanaim? The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.


    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    13[I began to flee, but they called to me] Return, return, O Shulammite; return, return, that we may look upon you! [I replied] What is there for you to see in the [poor little] Shulammite? [And they answered] As upon a dance before two armies or a dance of Mahanaim.





    The Message (MSG)

    13 Dance, dance, dear Shulammite, Angel-Princess!
    Dance, and we'll feast our eyes on your grace!
    Everyone wants to see the Shulammite dance
    her victory dances of love and peace.



    The two companies - the two companies, the two armies, the two dancers... how can one understand what GOD is telling us?

    The Old and the New are dancing together - and become ONE - ECHAD! supported by many other scriptures, such as
    Jeremiah 31:22, 31:31-34, Jeremiah 51:19 : Not like these is the portion of Jacob, he is the creator of all things; Israel is his very own tribe, LORD of hosts is his name.
    But none as convincing as Ezekiel Chapter 37:15ff:
    15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

    16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

    17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

    18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

    19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

    20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

    21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

    22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

    Two Kingdoms, two nations, two sticks.... Jews and Christians becoming ONE ECHAD!

    Shalom to Jerusalem and the Holy Land
    Shalom to all who worship Y'shua Ha-mashiach on this Shabbat
    Shalom to people of all faith and goodwill to those who do Your will, O GOD, who have surrendered their life to you, believing every word You have spoken and every signs You have provided, so that we may keep our faith and become ONE with our LORD JESUS/Y'SHUA, our Bridegroom. AMen & Amen.

    Shabbat Shalom and have a great Labor Day Weekend
    White


    PS

    In our bibles the verse is Song of Songs 6:13 = 613 Mitzvots or
    read from right to left JOHN 3:16 : "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD...."
    "According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22

    "Cleanse me with hyssop, that I may be pure; wash me, make me whiter than snow" Psalm 51:9

  10. #60
    Paula Guest
    Let's not forget the beauty of this place with the fountains of water that flowed into the valley...the commerce that occurred here...it is a place of beauty.."The situation of the town is one of surpassing beauty. It lies in a sheltered valley, protected by Gerizim on the south and Ebal on the north. The feet of these mountains, where they rise from the town, are not more than five hundred yards apart. The bottom of the valley is about 1800 feet above the level of the sea, and the top of Gerizim 800 feet higher still. The sit of the present city, which was also that of the Hebrew city, occurs exactly on the water-summit; and streams issuing from the numerous springs there flow down the opposite slopes of the valley, spreading verdure and fertility in every direction. Travellers vie with each other in the language which they employ to describe the scene that here bursts so suddenly upon them on arriving in spring or early summer at this paradise of the holy land. "The whole valley," says Dr. Robinson, "was filled with gardens of vegetables and orchards of all kinds of fruits, watered by fountains which burst forth in various parts and flow westward in refreshing streams. it came upon us suddenly like a scene of fairy enchantment. We saw nothing to compare with it in all Palestine." http://biblehub.com/topical/s/shechem.htm

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