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Thread: SHECHEM

  1. #21
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    Breastplate

    Hello All!

    Yinonyavo, you ask about there being any significance to John Tng's article regarding the breastplate. The short answer is no, there is no significance to his article. This is because he has the wrong 12 names on the breastplate!

    I did a series on the breastplate, some of which Vernon published at his website. Unfortunately, I cannot direct you to these pages at present as Vernon is overhauling his website, and the pages will not become available again until Vernon has finished updating them for placement at his new website. The reason he is doing this is so that his work will survive him, as Vernon is well-advanced in years now ... although you'd never believe it when you read his works, which remain concise and convey a clarity of expression.

    In an appendix to the first page we did together - the work goes under the title Double Indemnity - I set forth a number of reasons from Scripture why the names of Ephraim and Manasseh could never have been engraved on any of the breastplate jewels. I will not go into these reasons right now, as I don't have enough free time to do so. Also, it will become apparent as other threads develop - particularly the one relating to the Revelation, which began yesterday - that the names of Levi and Joseph were undoubtedly amongst the breastplate stones. Joseph's stone, as I mentioned earlier, is the Hebrew shoham, which is the very same stone used for the shoulder stones of the ephod, upon which the names of the 12 tribes were engraved. These three shoham stones represent Joseph - in the breastplate, and upon which the name of Joseph was engraved - as well as Ephraim and Manasseh - the two shoulder stones, although the names of the two sons of Joseph were not engraved upon either of these two shoham stones on the shoulders of the ephod.

    John Tng's article is a reworking of an original piece of research by Ian Mallett. The 4 x 3 breastplate matrix produces intriguing numerical results when overlaid with the 12 tribes as they are numbered in the wilderness, according to their birth order. However, these results can be duplicated and, indeed, surpassed, by using the names of the 12 sons of Jacob / Israel, who are the original 12 tribes. The only condition is that the birth order is now matriarchal. You will have to wait until Vernon has completed his task of moving the articles to his new website before you see what I mean. However, if you need specific answers regarding breastplate queries, please ask, as I probably have an answer.

    Stephen
    Last edited by Stephen; 07-16-2007 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #22
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    Thanks Stephen, looking forward to Vernon's article.

  3. #23
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    Vernon

    Hello Yinonyavo!

    It occurred to me that you might be waiting a long time before Vernon finishes transferring all his old material to his new website. The current pace of events isn't encouraging in relation to the Double Indemnity series being transferred any time soon. What I'll try and make time for over the next week or two is the placing of certain details in regard to the Double Indemnity series at the forum for discussing Vernon's work.

    I have had a brief reread over some of the posts in this Shechem thread. I've noticed that there seems to be a real emphasis on the tribe of Joseph. This is probably very important. In fact, I've gained a lot in rereading through some of the posts in this thread. I had never realised how fascinating this topic, and, indeed, the very word 'shechem', is.

    Something I gained much from was the use of the word 'shechem' at both Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 22:22. I think it's pretty plain to see that they're both prophecies concerning our Lord Jesus Christ. What is slightly less evident is that both verses refer to government: I regard the key of David as referring specifically to government. Hence, I believe the use of this very symbol by our Lord at Revelation 3:7 is in specific reference to government. To be precise, I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the Lord is prophesying specifically about America when he addresses the church at Philadelphia. In what is perhaps the most precise prophecy in the Bible, our Lord even names the original capital city of America, Philadelphia, where the Declaration of Independence was drafted in 1776. I'm sure you are familiar with this foundational document of America. Perhaps you might like to consider the final sentence of the Declaration, and compare its content with the meaning of the very word Philadelphia, which means 'brotherly love'.

    "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor".

    Over at another thread that I won't have time to reactivate for a while, I state my belief that America is part of ancient Israel, with the tribe of Manasseh in the ascendancy. Of this I am in no doubt. Funny how the very word 'shechem' should be part of the relevant symbol of governance, the key of David; and that it should relate to American Independence through the prophecy concerning the church at Philadelphia. Manasseh was the progenitor of a descendant named Shechem, inherited land in the region of Shechem, had descendants ruling in Shechem, and is part of Joseph, whose blessings at Genesis 49:22-26, Deuteronomy 33:13-17 and Genesis 48:5-22 have been fulfilled in the brother peoples of the United Kingdom and the United States.

    Stephen
    Last edited by Stephen; 07-18-2007 at 05:05 AM.

  4. #24
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    Good Morning Stephen,

    Very interesting post - All these verses the LORD spoke to me about -
    I have seen similar connectons about America as well (I got married to my first American husband on 7/4/1975 and came to the USA on 7/22/1976 - the bi-cenntenial) and opened my bible with a question on 7/22/1996 : "Lord, I know, somewhere in here is the key. So where does it say WHITE AS SNOW?" That night the LORD showed me: PSALM 51:7 - "Wash me and I'll be whiter than snow"

    Needless to say that I started to walk with the WORD from that very moment on. I started to concentrate in "22"s and came across Isaiah 22:22 - Then I met a Catholic Priest from an Christian African Country who mentioned that his nation is Christian because of "the 22 martyrs" - I gave him a study on 2:2, 22:2, 22:22 verses in the Bible, on his last day. Then it just happened that the priest stood next to my car as I was leaving my Church. So I asked him whether he received my "22" study and the $22.--" donation (to make a point! He said "yes" - so I said : "You should read ISAIAH 22:22" - He promised he would ponder that verse. Then I left and went to gas up my car. The automatic pump stopped at $22.22!" the exact numbers I told the Catholic Priest to study!

    That is the way the LORD walks with me to confirm my steps - not quite orthodox but always in tune with the Holy Spirit. Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door (to Heaven) shall be opened...
    House of Joseph = Ephraim - the largest Tribe, always mentioned in the Friday night prayers at the Synagigue ..."and may we be like Manessah and Ephraim..." I'll find the entire text if you are interested.
    Shalom to all
    White
    Last edited by White; 07-18-2007 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #25
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    Stephen, yes I agree it has much to do with Joseph. As Shechem Achad IS the double portion, the portion of the FIRSTBORN, and given to Ephraim. I think it also seems to be much related to the re-uniting of Ephraim and Judah, the two sticks. It was the place of their division. Thats why I asked the question about the valley of dry bones.

  6. #26
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    Ephraim and Manasseh

    Hi there, White!

    That's a pretty powerful thing to ask: "May we be like Manasseh and Ephraim". I'm sure they don't truly understand the depth of that request! What they're actually saying is, "May we be blessed like America and the British Commonwealth".

    Harking back to the church at Philadelphia - Revelation 3:7-10 - the Lord prophesied that the (unbelieving) Jews would find refuge in America, at verse 9. Think about that verse for a moment. When you've given that thought sufficient consideration, go back and look again at those words you quoted from the synagogue service: "May we be like Manasseh and Ephraim".

    "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee". (Revelation 3:9)

    Here's a link that ought to give you food for thought:

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...oc/czars1.html

    Note the quote from Psalm 118, the quintessential American psalm, which the Lord himself quotes at Matthew 21:42, again - as I believe - in reference to America receiving the kingdom that the Jews once held. Truly fascinating stuff!

    Uf widerhoere!

    Stephen

  7. #27
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    Here's another question important to this study. Is the "ONENESS" prophesied of the two sticks the same as the "ONENESS" that the Holy Spirit wrought at Pentecost between the Jews and the Gentiles? i.e., is Ephraim (10 tribes)symbolic or literally the Gentiles?

    Consider the following verses:

    Joh 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

    διασπορά Transliteration diaspora - Thayer's Lexicon states this is used only of Israelites or Christian Israelites who are scattered. Note they are called GENTILES by the disciples in this verse. Actually the Greek word here is Helen, meaning the Greeks, which the Jews equated with Gentiles.

    JOHN CALVIN on this verse:
    Will he go to the dispersion of the Greeks? It is well known that the Jews gave the name of Greeks to all nations beyond the sea; but they do not mean that Christ will go to the uncircumcised nations, but to the Jews, who were dispersed through the various countries of the world. For the word dispersion would not apply to those who are natives of the place, and who inhabit their native soil, but applies well to the Jews, who were fugitives and exiles. Thus Peter inscribes his First Epistle parepidhmoiv diasporav to the strangers of the dispersion, that is, to the strangers who are scattered {1} through Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (#1Pe 1:1); and James salutes the twelve tribes en th diaspora, in the dispersion, that is, scattered abroad, (#Jas 1:1). The meaning of the words therefore is, "Will he cross the sea, to go to Jews who dwell in a world unknown to us?"


    CLARK's COMMENTARY: Verse 35. The dispersed among the Gentiles Or Greeks. By the dispersed, are meant here the Jews who were scattered through various parts of that empire which Alexander the Great had founded, in Greece, Syria, Egypt, and Asia Minor, where the Greek language was used, and where the Jewish Scriptures in the Greek version of the Septuagint were read. Others suppose that the Gentiles themselves are meant—others, that the ten tribes which had been long lost are here intended.

    GENEVA COMMENTARY: Literally, "to the dispersion of the Gentiles" or "Greeks", and under the name of the Greeks he refers to the Jews who were dispersed among the Gentiles.

    Both Peter and James call the scattered tribes by the same term "diaspora":

    Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus <2424> Christ , to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad <1290>, greeting.
    1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,to the strangers <3927> scattered <1290> throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia....

  8. #28
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    Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    ADAM CLARKS COMMENTARY:Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And this blindness will continue till the Church of the Gentiles be fully completed—till the Gospel be preached through all the nations of the earth, and multitudes of heathens every where embrace the faith. The words πληρωμα τωv εθνοv may be borrowed from the Hebrew:melo haggoyim, a multitude of nations, which the Septuagint translate by πληρωμα εθνοv from the verse:
    Ge 48:17-19And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head.18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

    So is the "fullness of the Gentiles" really also/and/or speaking of the 10 tribes who have been mixed with the Gentile nations??

    Ho 7:8 Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

    Ho 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

    Zech 10:7-9 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.


    GENEVA BIBLE FOOTNOTES:10:9 And I will {k} sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and {l} turn again.
    (k) Though they will yet be scattered and seem to be lost, yet it will be profitable to them: for there they will come to the knowledge of my name, which was accomplished under the Gospel, among whom it was first preached.
    (l) Not that they would return into their country, but be gathered and joined in one faith by the doctrine of the Gospel.


    Mic 5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

    JOHN CALVIN:It was an instance of the wonderful grace of God, that he so ordered his dreadful judgment as to make the dispersion, as it has been said, a sowing of the people; for it hence happened, that the knowledge of celestial truth shone everywhere; and at length when the gospel was proclaimed, a freer access was had to the Gentiles, because Jews were dispersed through all lands. The first receptacles (Hospitia) of the gospel were the synagogues. We see that the apostles everywhere went first to the Jews, and when a few were converted, the door was now opened that more might come, and Gentiles were also added to the Jews. Thus the punishment of exile, which had been inflicted on them, was the means of opening the door for the gospel; and God thus scattered his seed here and there, that it might in due time produce fruit beyond the expectation of all; and this consideration availed not a little to moderate the impatient desires of the people;

    Calvin here treats the diaspora of Israelites as if they could be identified, but the scriptures and Jews of the times considered them physically mixed in the nations that only God knew their whereabouts:

    Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

    Jer 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
    15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
    16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
    18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.
    19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
    20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
    21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

  9. #29
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    http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/j.../jsbp1c10.html

    The Jews were taken into Babylon and returned from thence; but the house of Israel, as herein stated, was scattered throughout all countries. But for the vindication of his holy name, he declared that he should yet be sanctified in the eyes of all nations, by saving Israel and bringing them back to their own land. When this takes place, Israel shall come out from all countries.

    In two of these quotations they are called, "The dispersed." This will enable us to understand Zeph. 3:10 --

    "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia, my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.'


    Since we understand that "the dispersed" are the ten tribes, which composed the Birthright kingdom, we comprehend the grave import of the question asked by the chief man of Judah in the following:

    "When the Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him. Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. Ye shall seek me and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come. Then said the Jews among themselves, ‘Whither will he go that we cannot find him? "Will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles?’ " (John 7:32-35).

    This very question reveals the fact that the Jews knew that the ten tribes were dispersed among the nations, and that they did not know where they were; hence, that they could not go to them. They also comprehended the fact that, if this man called Christ should prove to be the long-expected Messiah, he did know where the lost people were, and could go to them. It is also an admission, from the chief men of Judah, that a portion of the race were lost.
    Isaac Leeser, an eminent Jewish scholar, who translated the Hebrew Scriptures for the English speaking Jews, says in his great work, "The Jewish Religion," Vol. I, page 256:

    "Let us observe that by this return of the captives (from Babylon) the Israelitish nation was not restored; since the ten tribes, who had formerly composed the kingdom of Israel, were yet left in banishment; and to this day the researches of travelers and wise men have not been able to trace their fate."

    Micah, also, falls into exact line with the rest of the prophets, for through him the Lord declares:

    "I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold, they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men. The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and passed through the gate, and are gone out by it; and their king shall pass before them, and the Lord on the head of them," (Micah 2:12, 13).

    The reason the Lord says that he will assemble and put them together is, that, prior to the time when Shalmaneser took the main body of the kingdom of Israel into Assyria, it seems that a former king (Tiglath-Pileser) had taken the Reubenites, the Gadites, a portion of Naphtali, and one of the half tribes of Manasseh, "And brought them unto Halah, and Habor and Hara, and to the river Gozan." (see 2Kings 17:6, 18:11; 1Ch. 5:26). Later, the rest of the ten tribes were brought to this same region.

    As we have already noted, the last that Josephus knew concerning the ten tribes, is that they were beyond the river Euphrates. This river rises at the foot of Mount Ararat, up in the Caucasian Pass, between the Black and Caspian seas. Israel, making a great noise because of the multitude, went out through this pass, or gate, or entrance.

  10. #30
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    Shechem

    Hi All!

    Yinonyavo, you are very perceptive in regard to the ten tribes being the dispersed. There are many other Jewish sources of the highest order that could be quoted in relation to the ten tribes, and the many verses in Scripture that are dedicated specifically to them. I like where are you going with this thread. You are engaging with concepts of the birthright, and with real people. I say that latter by way of contrast with the great majority of Bible students, who obliterate any real tribe of Ephraim by subsuming them into some nebulous concept of type / antitype, in order to buttress some erroneous belief that the church is now Israel. In doing so, they bring great problems to their own table, for the onus is then on them to justify every single prophecy ever spoken over the ten tribes, and show how it is fulfilled in the church. I defy anyone to try and prove that this is the case. The only strategy that might work is to extend the definition of what the word 'church' means, as you appear to be doing in your latest posts.

    Stephen

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