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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    4,313
    Hi Joel,

    I answered your questions in Red.

    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Wasn't the time of vengeance occurring in that day to avenge the innocent blood which was shed from during the time all the way to the unfolding of the Son of God's sacrifice?

    Why are we to believe that that vengeance was to avenge the innocent blood of all time? The reason we are to believe is because that is what Scripture says. Jesus is speaking of all the blood that had been shed up to that generation (the He is speaking to)....He ends with the statement that there house (the Temple) is left desolate, which of course is exactly what happened.

    Matt. 23:35-38 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
    Isn't there yet a time of vengeance coming? If there is a time yet to come, Scripture does not speak of it. The vengeance, and wrath that was poured out on apostate Israel was for a specific reason which Jesus clearly explained.

    You make it sound as if it that day was a finality, when, I see it as only a part of God's plan. It was a finality for apostate Israel, never again would they have a Temple to worship in, and that was definitely part of Gods plan.

    Joel
    God Bless,

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    South Carolina
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    2,958
    Wasn't the time of vengeance occurring in that day to avenge the innocent blood which was shed from during the time all the way to the unfolding of the Son of God's sacrifice?

    Why are we to believe that that vengeance was to avenge the innocent blood of all time?

    Isn't there yet a time of vengeance coming?

    You make it sound as if it that day was a finality, when, I see it as only a part of God's plan.

    Joel
    Greetings brother Joel.

    Sister Rose answered the question best, but I wanted to provide you with my insights involving the finalization of God's wrath.

    I do not believe there is a prophetic word of "vengeance" upon the entire globe. God's wrath was upon Apostate Israel, and the Gentile nations. After the 40 years of ministry from the Apostles (building the Kingdom of Christ), Jesus took the completion of the Kingdom, which had made herself ready after being refined through the fires, and began striking down the nations. Since the first nation to be judged was the "House of God" according to St. Peter, it is only right that the Gentile nations be judged as well. The Jews were the first to receive the Gospel of Christ, and so thus they were judged first.

    The Gentiles received the Gospels AFTER the Jews, and so even after 70AD, the Gentile nations suffered the divine judgments of God and His elected counsel members who served on the lesser thrones. Since that time (The First Century), Nations have continued to be established unto righteousness, or torn down because of Apostasy. The Kingdom of Christ grows throughout every season, from one new moon to the next.

    Isaiah 66:23
    And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,' says the LORD.


    Isaiah is shown that the Kingdom of Christ shall result in the worship of "all flesh". Now when it says "All flesh", it doesn't mean every single person alive. He's talking about difference races and nations. Instead of a single race of Hebrews worshiping God, races of all nationalities would come to worship Christ. This has long since been fulfilled; even prior to Christ considering Gentiles converted to Judaism and worshiped God. But the fulfillment is proved with the words of Christ:

    John 4:

    19 The woman said to Him, 'Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.' 21 Jesus said to her, 'Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.'


    Instead of a single race (Jews) worshiping God, all flesh (races) would come to worship God, in Spirit, and in Truth. More importantly, the Mountain we worship is the Jerusalem which is above, and has eternally be established, from one new moon, to the next, and it shall have no end.

    Done deal you ask? Yes, it certainly is. Therefore, one should have even more glory in the Kingdom of Christ knowing how beautiful she is, and long she's endured the test of times.

    I promise you brother Joel, as God is my witness, the Church will never decrease, but will go on forever. The Futurist position believes that the Church age will decline (depending on which position one teaches), but the Church age keeps getting larger, and larger. One day, even the Muslims will convert to the truth, and the Kingdom of God will flourish beyond the shadow of doubt.

    As for God's wrath, that is an ongoing concept. Look at our own Country, and witness the wrath of God.

    Joe

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    1
    Looking at the calendar on Skyview Café, I would say this is April 21st, 67AD.

  4. #14
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGFracing View Post
    Looking at the calendar on Skyview Café, I would say this is April 21st, 67AD.
    Hey PGFracing - Not sure what your point is?
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #15
    Unregistered Guest

    regarding the topic of end times

    you guys do not understand the bible

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Yakima, Wa
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    15,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    you guys do not understand the bible
    And you do?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #17
    Joe P. Guest

    Purpose of the event

    In my opinion, the purpose of the appearance of the "armies" in the sky, was to fulfill what Jesus had told the Apostles, that they were to leave Jerusalem "when you see the armies surrounding Jerusalem". This is the only way that the early church could have possibly known, for sure, that this was the time to leave. Roman armies had already been an occupying force, in and around Jerusalem for some years. Therefore, with devine prompting, the Church left Jerusalem to survive and to thrive, but not without suffering. It was not long after, that Rome destroyed Jerusalem, and most who were in it.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Jesus IS Real...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi Joel,

    I answered your questions in Red.



    God Bless,

    Rose
    Hi Rose:

    Jesus is speaking of all the blood that had been shed up to that generation (the He is speaking to)....He ends with the statement that there house (the Temple) is left desolate, which of course is exactly what happened.

    Are you saying now that you believe in Jesus as GOD? If His word comes true does that make Him a REAL person/prophet?

    I thought you did not believe in IHVH the god of the Bible!

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Mystykal

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    2,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe P. View Post
    In my opinion, the purpose of the appearance of the "armies" in the sky, was to fulfill what Jesus had told the Apostles, that they were to leave Jerusalem "when you see the armies surrounding Jerusalem". This is the only way that the early church could have possibly known, for sure, that this was the time to leave. Roman armies had already been an occupying force, in and around Jerusalem for some years. Therefore, with devine prompting, the Church left Jerusalem to survive and to thrive, but not without suffering. It was not long after, that Rome destroyed Jerusalem, and most who were in it.
    According to history as I have come to understand, the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem at that time of Jerusalem's destruction (including the temple), for some reason withdrew for a short period. This gave those who knew what was going to happen, time to get out. Perhaps those who stayed, thought that the city was impenetrable and that God would save them or that the Roman army was not coming back. They cannot say they had not been warned.

    What happened is in-keeping with Luke 21:20,21 let them which are in the midst of it (Jerusalem) depart out When Jerusalem was surrounded with armies, how would they who are in the midst of of it, have been able to escape? This is a small detail, that shows the providential hand of God at work whilst at the same time, using the Roman armies as an instrument of punishment. Another example of the goodness and severity of God in which people have been warned.

    What was the cause which made the Roman armies retreat?

    David

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hi Rose:




    Are you saying now that you believe in Jesus as GOD? If His word comes true does that make Him a REAL person/prophet?

    I thought you did not believe in IHVH the god of the Bible!

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Hi Mystykal

    The date of the post you quoted from was 8-16 - 2009. Yes, I was a Christian back then, but not anymore!

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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