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gregoryfl
09-07-2008, 10:58 AM
When Jesus died on the cross, what is it that he endured? The way he generally is portrayed in movies and in sermons, you would think it was the physical pain, yet, while he certainly was in most horrendous pain, the scriptures tell us he endured something far more revealing. Revealing, because the answer deals specifically with what occurs with those who are without God. There is only one scripture which tells us what he endured with regard to the cross, and it's found in Hebrews 12:2:

looking to Yahushua, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Mighty One.

Yes, it wasn't pain that was the focus, but shame. He took on the shame of the whole world, yet you rarely if ever hear anything concerning this.

While todays culture is more driven by the concept of guilt and innocence, in the east, and in biblical times it was driven by the concept of shame and honor. Knowing this sheds important light on the subject of what happens to those who remain in darkness.

Just a couple of thoughts regarding this I would like to share. First, Daniel speaks of the contrast of two types of people who are raised to life.

Dan 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to life in the eon, and some to shame and contempt in the eon.

Here the contrast is between life and shame with contempt. No mention of physical pain here. Take another look at the different parables concerning what has been usually described as a future of physical torture and pain and I think you will find it actually not concerning those things at all, but rather shame. Also in looking again at the different scriptures speaking of the fate of the wicked, particularly in the psalms and proverbs, shame, not pain, is what is highlighted.

So his being revealed will produce different emotions, more or less intense. For to be in the presence of pure righteousness and light will be pure mental torment for the wicked, with weeping and gnashing of teeth, and mental anguish, but not from the one who is Love, for he bore their shame as well, though they do not know it. It is a product of their own mind, the judgment that was accomplished in Christ, yet hangs over them. They will indeed be hurt by the second death, whatever portion they have in it as the lake of fire.

For those of us in Christ, we can rejoice that our sense of shame has been dealt with so that we may appear before him in boldness, with joy, for he has taken us out of the realm of shame and brought us into his realm of honor. Therefore we will not be hurt by the second death, for it has no power over us.

Rose
09-08-2008, 08:10 AM
When Jesus died on the cross, what is it that he endured? The way he generally is portrayed in movies and in sermons, you would think it was the physical pain, yet, while he certainly was in most horrendous pain, the scriptures tell us he endured something far more revealing. Revealing, because the answer deals specifically with what occurs with those who are without God. There is only one scripture which tells us what he endured with regard to the cross, and it's found in Hebrews 12:2:

looking to Yahushua, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Mighty One.

Yes, it wasn't pain that was the focus, but shame. He took on the shame of the whole world, yet you rarely if ever hear anything concerning this.

When I think of the shame Jesus bore for us Phil. 2 comes to mind.

Phil. 2:5-8 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

It always touches my heart very deeply to imagine that God would not only become as His creation.....but take on all the shame of NO REPUTATION in doing so.

Rose

gregoryfl
09-08-2008, 10:29 AM
Amen Rose. What a wonderful God we serve. Thanks for bringing out that scripture to tie in with the theme. :thumb:

Ron

alec cotton
01-14-2009, 11:42 AM
In a previous post I remarked that the only thing that changed at Calvary was the sacrifice. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I did not mean to belittle the event or diminish its importance. The changing of the sacrifice was of such a magnitude that it shook the world 'till its teeth rattled. It changed the course of world history for ever. The response was disappointing. Hebrews 8.13 was quoted .'That which is old is ready to vanish away. ' Taken in isolation,that line is grossly misleading. If the reader was to read on it would be instantly apparent what the writer meant. There is no longer any purpose in offering sacrifices or sprinkling blood or for the high priest to enter the holy of holies once a year. The commandments still stand. Jesus said 'Whosoever breaks the least of these commandments and teaches men so ,shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven and he who Keeps these commandments and teaches men so shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.' Now that could not be clearer. If we assume that the whole law has been abolished ,then we must ignore the writings. 'Blessed is the man whose delight is in the LAW of the lord and in his LAW does he meditate day and night.' Then again the preterist insists that all the prophecies were fulfilled by 70 A.D. That means we can shrug off the old testament. But just a minute. Without law ,there is no awareness of sin . ('the law was the schoolmaster which brought me to Christ.')No awareness of sin means that a saviour is redundant. We might as well throw the bible in the bin because it is self defeating.. The only thing that was nailed to the cross was the ordinances. Some of the commandments stick in my throat but I still accept them without reservation. For instance 'Honour your father and your mother' . All right if father and mother are honourable,But what if father is a well known drunken slob, a cheat, a thief and a liar?. What if mother is a drug addicted slut who despises and neglects her children?. Rose and Fred west abducted children from the street,Raped and murdered them . They were imprisoned for the crime. It is demanded of their children that they honour their father and their mother. The law is unequivocal. The law does not say that you must not be jealous except when you see someone with something that you really want and can't have. No !. The law says 'you must not covet. As regards the seventh day, it was given for man's benefit. That one needs more time than I am willing to give it here. It is easy enough to be good when temptation is far removed. I accept the Bible as it is. Years ago a street preacher was heckled by a man who shouted ,'I suppose that you believe that a whale swallowed Jonah'. The preacher replied ,'Yes, and if the Bible said that Jonah swallowed the whale, I would believe that as well.' To that I say Amen.

gregoryfl
01-14-2009, 11:58 AM
Thanks Alec. I know you have a passion, and rightly so, for God's law. I too, believe that it was not destroyed, or abolished, as some people would say. However, scripture makes it clear that it is fulfilled in us. The thing though we need to understand is, what does that mean?

The word for law in Hebrew is an agricultural term. The word literally means "thrown seed." Knowing this simple truth has opened my eyes so much as to the purpose of the law, what it is designed to do, and not to do, and how it relates to us today. For me personally, to know I am conscious of nothing against myself has nothing to do with ignoring sin, but realizing that we have been removed from it, and that it has been dealt with. We belong to the new creation, even while we see the old creation around us fading away.

Ron

joel
01-15-2009, 06:22 AM
The word for law in Hebrew is an agricultural term.

Ron.....that is such an important observation. The origin of the word in the Greek, nomos, also connects to agriculture......as the farmer doles out feed to his animals.........on the one hand, in the Hebrew, it is linked to the food that the farmer grows......on the other hand, in the Greek, it is linked to the sustenance provided to the animals for their livlihood.

This opens up vast new applications of the law.......it is not a list of "do this"...and "don't do that"....."or else I'll whip your *%#", as if God primarily functioned as a slavemaster. The law's provisions for life teach us that we cannot partake of its ideal diet without going overboard......gorging ourselves on all manner of tasty, fatty foods......and ignoring the vitamins, minerals, etc.

Joel

Silence
01-22-2009, 10:29 AM
Hi Ron,
You are right about the nature of what Jesus bore on the cross, and the way that relates to what we will experience if we do not trust Jesus to bear it for us. We have all gone through (at least I think all have) a small measure of the "fire" that is in the lake of fire. How many have said something like, "I was so ashamed, my face turned red and my ears burned"? And this is in relation to being in the presence of other people who are not perfect. It is magnified beyond description in His presence. Thank you Ron for pointing out a very important aspect of our redemption that is rarely ever mentioned, and yet is very important to our foundation.

This reminds me of another aspect of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross that I noticed never seems to get mentioned. There have been so many sermons preached about the physical sufferings that Jesus went through, and countless examples of how old testament prophecies were literally fulfilled at the time of His crucifixion. But several years ago I noticed that there is one prophetic description of the suffering Messiah in the psalms that never seems to get discussed.

Psalm 22:14 "I am poured out like water, and all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax it; it has melted within Me."

The statement "all My bones are out of joint" is found in a psalm which contains several other prophetic descriptions which are documented in the new testament as being literally fulfilled at the cross. This particular phrase is not described in the new testament accounts, but does that mean it was not literally fulfilled? In one of my high school P.E. classes we were playing basketball and one of the guys on my team got his middle finger knocked out of joint. A dislocated joint is not a pretty sight and it affected me on a deep level. And this was just one finger. I can't imagine a whole body being out of joint. Maybe I am being macabre, but just because something in scripture is not pleasant to think about doesn't mean we should put it in a corner or sweep it under the rug. We all have to face it eventually.

(P.S. - It was equally unpleasant to watch our P.E. teacher pull the finger out straight and use his thumb to press it back into place, but once it was done our classmate was good as new!)

alec cotton
02-04-2009, 12:39 PM
[QUOTE=gregoryfl;10699]Thanks Alec. I know you have a passion, and rightly so, for God's law. I too, believe that it was not destroyed, or abolished, as some people would say. However, scripture makes it clear that it is fulfilled in us. The thing though we need to understand is, what does that mean?
Greetings Greg

The law is fulfilled in us only if as and when we live according to its instructions. The word fulfilled means filled full, Satisfied ,replete. Jesus satisfied the requirements of the law. We are now no longer required to offer any physical sacrifice to make atonement for sin. We are still required to obey his laws. I hear the statement so often ,'We are not under law now but under grace.' as if the law could be shrugged off as irrelevant. I hear the quotation ' That which is waxed old is ready to pass away.' The only thing that passed away was the law of ordnances. They are obsolete. ' if you love me you will keep my commandments'. What commandments?. The only commandments he could possibly have meant were the ones which he gave through Moses. The law is not fulfilled in the wicked ,only in the righteous. What is righteousness? . Compliance with the law. The Jews thought that they had a monopoly on the real estate of heaven . Wrong. A righteous gentile would enter heaven before an evil Jew any time. It is not the hearers of the law but the doers who are justified. A young man asked Jesus what he should do to inherit eternal life and Jesus said 'Keep the law'. What advantage then has the Jew?. Much every way. The Jews could readily understand the feasts and the rituals which are a mystery to us . They could then interpret the symbols. It is impossible to understand the new testament without some knowledge of the old. I hear the words, 'We live under a new covenant now'. What is the new covenant?. If you believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead you will be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness. (The keeping of the law.) Another quotation I will write my law in their hearts. Some say 'there you are ,the Holy Spirit writes it in your heart' Wrong. You have to hear it first. How can they hear without a preacher?. I am reminded of the words of the poet.' IF YOU CAN BEAR TO HEAR THE WORDS YOU'VE SPOKEN TWISTED BY KNAVES TO MAKE A TRAP FOR FOOLS---' I think that just about sums it up .
Bro. Alec

gregoryfl
02-04-2009, 02:30 PM
[QUOTE=gregoryfl;10699]Thanks Alec. I know you have a passion, and rightly so, for God's law. I too, believe that it was not destroyed, or abolished, as some people would say. However, scripture makes it clear that it is fulfilled in us. The thing though we need to understand is, what does that mean?
Greetings Greg

The law is fulfilled in us only if as and when we live according to its instructions. The word fulfilled means filled full, Satisfied ,replete. Jesus satisfied the requirements of the law. We are now no longer required to offer any physical sacrifice to make atonement for sin. We are still required to obey his laws. I hear the statement so often ,'We are not under law now but under grace.' as if the law could be shrugged off as irrelevant. I hear the quotation ' That which is waxed old is ready to pass away.' The only thing that passed away was the law of ordnances. They are obsolete. ' if you love me you will keep my commandments'. What commandments?. The only commandments he could possibly have meant were the ones which he gave through Moses. The law is not fulfilled in the wicked ,only in the righteous. What is righteousness? . Compliance with the law. The Jews thought that they had a monopoly on the real estate of heaven . Wrong. A righteous gentile would enter heaven before an evil Jew any time. It is not the hearers of the law but the doers who are justified. A young man asked Jesus what he should do to inherit eternal life and Jesus said 'Keep the law'. What advantage then has the Jew?. Much every way. The Jews could readily understand the feasts and the rituals which are a mystery to us . They could then interpret the symbols. It is impossible to understand the new testament without some knowledge of the old. I hear the words, 'We live under a new covenant now'. What is the new covenant?. If you believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead you will be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness. (The keeping of the law.) Another quotation I will write my law in their hearts. Some say 'there you are ,the Holy Spirit writes it in your heart' Wrong. You have to hear it first. How can they hear without a preacher?. I am reminded of the words of the poet.' IF YOU CAN BEAR TO HEAR THE WORDS YOU'VE SPOKEN TWISTED BY KNAVES TO MAKE A TRAP FOR FOOLS---' I think that just about sums it up .
Bro. Alec
Hi Alec,

You quoted alot of scriptures there, but you have no idea of what I believe about the law being fulfilled in us. What you see as a requirement to be met, I know is a reality that is actually occuring in all of us who are born from above. I could try to answer every single one of these points according to that reality, but I do not think it would matter. Unless you truly wish to understand where I am coming from.

Ron

alec cotton
02-05-2009, 10:45 AM
[QUOTE=gregoryfl;11128][QUOTE=alec cotton;11127]
Hi Alec,

You quoted alot of scriptures there, but you have no idea of what I believe about the law being fulfilled in us. What you see as a requirement to be met, I know is a reality that is actually occuring in all of us who are born from above. I could try to answer every single one of these points according to that reality, but I do not think it would matter. Unless you truly wish to understand where I am coming from.

Ron

Hello Ron
Of course I would like to know where you are coming from,where you have been ,where are you going and how do you intend to get there. Before we start ,let me say this. I do not subscribe to the notion that a person is born again and just lies back and lets it all hang out while the holy spirit does all the work. The first demand made of the newborn is that he love his neighbour as much as he loves himself. That demands a tremendous effort. Strive to enter. Flee. Narrow is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it. "If any man will be my student ,let him deny himself .(I am not)Crucify himself daily and follow me.. Hast thou no scar,No scar in side or foot or hand. I hear thee sung as mighty in the land. I hear them talk of thine ascending star. Hast thou no scar ?.Hast thou no wound ?. Yet I was wounded ,by the archers spent. Leaned against a tree to die and rent by ravening wolves they cuttest me. I swooned. Hast thou no wound?. Yet as the master so shall the servants be and pierced are the feet that follow me.
But thine are whole!. Can he have followed far who has no wound,no scar.?
R.S.V.P . my brother
Alec

gregoryfl
02-05-2009, 12:34 PM
[QUOTE=gregoryfl;11128][QUOTE=alec cotton;11127]

Hello Ron
Of course I would like to know where you are coming from,where you have been ,where are you going and how do you intend to get there. Before we start ,let me say this. I do not subscribe to the notion that a person is born again and just lies back and lets it all hang out while the holy spirit does all the work. The first demand made of the newborn is that he love his neighbour as much as he loves himself. That demands a tremendous effort. Strive to enter. Flee. Narrow is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it. "If any man will be my student ,let him deny himself .(I am not)Crucify himself daily and follow me.. Hast thou no scar,No scar in side or foot or hand. I hear thee sung as mighty in the land. I hear them talk of thine ascending star. Hast thou no scar ?.Hast thou no wound ?. Yet I was wounded ,by the archers spent. Leaned against a tree to die and rent by ravening wolves they cuttest me. I swooned. Hast thou no wound?. Yet as the master so shall the servants be and pierced are the feet that follow me.
But thine are whole!. Can he have followed far who has no wound,no scar.?
R.S.V.P . my brother
Alec

Hey my brother,

You rightly say that God's intent is not for anyone who is born again to just lay back and he do everything apart from us. If I sounded like I believed that, I emphatically do not. Paul said he worked harder than any of the other apostles, so he certainly was not just sitting on his laurels waiting for God to drag him along. I too believe that there is a great deal of effort exerted in the Christian life. I see life as a matter of perspectives. From God's perspective, we are already glorified. We are already complete in Him. His reality is that his will is being worked out in our lives. Our inner man is being renewed day by day. From our perspective, we are obeying him, serving him, keeping his commandments, in birth pains to have Christ formed in us, waiting for our future glorification that we can recognize. I see both perspectives as true at the same time. While our reality may not always match up with God's, we need our brothers and sisters to never tire of speaking God's reality into our spirits, so we can indeed see it as our reality and thus live it out by God's working in us. Does that make more sense?

Ron

Raphael
08-13-2009, 12:40 PM
When Jesus died on the cross, what is it that he endured?

which cross gregory?
what did it look like?

I know of THREE crosses related to Christ.

Cross of the Hidden Christ
Cross of the Crucified Christ
Cross of the Risen Christ

you show me yours first and then I will show you mine. :yo:

namaste

gregoryfl
08-13-2009, 06:14 PM
Raphael,

I know there is a specific reason behind the wording of your question, but I am not sure what it is. But if I had to answer your question, it would be the crucified Christ.

Ron

Raphael
08-14-2009, 06:00 AM
Raphael,

I know there is a specific reason behind the wording of your question, but I am not sure what it is. But if I had to answer your question, it would be the crucified Christ.

Ron


hey ron,
you know the reason but you are not sure what it is? :confused2:

>the cross of the crucified cross resembles the celtic cross btw.

>I am still curious as to what kind of cross you feel 'christ' was crucified on?
>was it a latin cross?
>was it a tau cross?
>was it simply an X, similar to a X-roads?
>was it a hot cross bun?

those 3 crosses I named in the above post, are actually crosses mentioned by Alice Bailey.
a rather interesting historical figure who wrote about esoteric astrology, and established the Lucifer Trust > which became the Lucis Trust > endorsed by the UN.

the cross of the hidden christ would shock most folks.
the cross of the risen christ I believe is best understood using geometry.
i.e. the right angled triangle knight move capable of taking a flat chessboard world and adding some depth to it.

ahhhhh
poetry in motion best understood when you realize there exists the poeTREE in Eden too.

namaste

gregoryfl
08-14-2009, 10:01 AM
hey ron,
you know the reason but you are not sure what it is? :confused2:

>the cross of the crucified cross resembles the celtic cross btw.

>I am still curious as to what kind of cross you feel 'christ' was crucified on?
>was it a latin cross?
>was it a tau cross?
>was it simply an X, similar to a X-roads?
>was it a hot cross bun?

those 3 crosses I named in the above post, are actually crosses mentioned by Alice Bailey.
a rather interesting historical figure who wrote about esoteric astrology, and established the Lucifer Trust > which became the Lucis Trust > endorsed by the UN.

the cross of the hidden christ would shock most folks.
the cross of the risen christ I believe is best understood using geometry.
i.e. the right angled triangle knight move capable of taking a flat chessboard world and adding some depth to it.

ahhhhh
poetry in motion best understood when you realize there exists the poeTREE in Eden too.

namaste

Namaste,

What I said was that I know there IS a specific reason you asked that question, not that I knew exactly what it was. In other words, there is an underlying reason which you are now bringing to bear; namely, the shape of the cross.

I will just say that it is not the instrument of death is not important, as what took place by that death, namely, that he bore our shame, dealt with sin, and killed off the old Adam in himself to be the beginning of the new creation.

But as to the specific shape of the instrument, I would have no problem seeing it as whatever shape the Romans happened to use at that time. I believe there were 3 of them typically used, a high tau, a low tau, and an already planted tree. They were a pagan people, and whether they used a symbol that was pagan in nature or not is of no consequence to me, for as I said before, it is not the object that is the important thing, although unfortunately people have made it so. It is what that death accomplished.

Ron

Raphael
08-15-2009, 05:42 AM
Namaste,

They were a pagan people, and whether they used a symbol that was pagan in nature or not is of no consequence to me, for as I said before,


yes Ron they and WE are still a pagan people.

any idea of the origin of the word pagan?


Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic")


Latin?
What's Latin got to do with it?
Did you know that in Latin, lux means light.

And the word Lux is formed from the angles of the Cross, LVX.
http://www.osogd.org/PDFs/BTportal.pdf
And Jesus is connected to Light or LVX in some strange miraculous way?

Back to the dirty unkept pagan....
Even the industrial revolution can be seen as an effort to get the pagans to move into the city...and leave the land that provides so many of our needs, in order to survive?
Remove humanity from a role in providing their own food supply?
Where are we today?
Concerned with the quality of the food supply Ron?
Some folks are very concerned.

And the trend continues today....get the pagans off the land (many countries in Africa are great examples of herding folks into internment camps after helping to create 'civil wars') .... so big brother/big business/Monsanto can control the LAND, hence ultimately the FOOD SUPPLY and other resources, and ultimately get all the sheeple/seegullibles eating out of their hands.



it is not the object that is the important thing, although unfortunately people have made it so. It is what that death accomplished.

Ron

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Essen_Kreuzgang_3_Kruzifix.jpg/180px-Essen_Kreuzgang_3_Kruzifix.jpg

don't say such silly things Ron.
the object/cross/symbol is not important you claim?
I claim otherwise.

Why have all the Judeao/Christian latch key kids been issued a crucifix (object of oppression) to hang around their necks?
>>to help open doors?
>>which door?
>>the front or back door?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Perelachaise-croixCeltique-p1000394.jpg/180px-Perelachaise-croixCeltique-p1000394.jpg
Cross of the Crucified Christ

Ron are you not interested in seeing what the Cross of the Hidden Christ or Risen Christ looks like? :pop2:
Or do you prefer to dwell in the house of ignorance and blind faith that Peter built over a pagan rock?



It is what that death accomplished.


The story of jesus and his death can be understood using theories embedded within alchemy too.
The fictitious story of his death only accomplished one thing.
The veiling of a truth.
Followed by 2000+ years of bickering, fighting and the 'exportation' of a holier than thou message, to the four corners of the world.
Much of the BS that did not even exist prior to his 'appearance, death, and resurrection', with yet another promise to return, one day soon.

Your point?

namaste

gregoryfl
08-15-2009, 09:18 AM
Well then Namaste, enlighten my ignorant mind and share if you will what is the hidden Christ?

Ron

Raphael
08-15-2009, 09:55 AM
Well then Namaste, enlighten my ignorant mind and share if you will what is the hidden Christ?

Ron

http://www.newspiritualbible.com/sitebuilder/images/Lama_Nazi_2-381x415.jpg

Do you see it Ron?
It is a 10,000 year old symbol that means 'good luck and vital energy'...that was replaced in the hearts and minds of western humanity about 2000 years ago with a cross that represents OPPRESSION, namely the crucifix, coinciding with the release of a best seller and a new brand new belief system?

You don't see it the Cross of the Hidden Christ?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/VIRGINMARY13thCenturyMonasticSymbol.jpg

How about if I show you images of the Virgin Mary from the 13th century, to help join the dots?

Ok maybe now things are starting to become unveiled?

http://www.ejainism.com/images/jainsymbols/Swastik.gif

The Crucifix has become in vogue.
Yes the fix is in.
The battle for your hearts and minds is done with symbols and sacred sounds, all veiled.
Ask Carl Jung/Joseph Campbell or anybody in the advertising industry, or read the book Hamlet's Mill.
These are the buttons they use to push the minds over the brink, and the heart strings they pull using FEAR.
They have taken a divine symbol, the swastika, and turned it against humanity.
OBVIOUS to me...because I have done the research.
My word blog is focused and addresses the arcane, the hidden, the veiled.
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/

Don't FEAR the swastika or the pentagram folks....
The pentagram contains NATURE's spiral called phi in its architecture...
These are sacred symbols.

Sadly the twist at the end of the story Ron, and remember ALL GREAT NARRATIVES have one, why should the bible be any different ... is that the Christians find out they were duped?
How else do you keep us all on prison planet eh?
With lies, sex, and videotape...
What if?
Amen

namaste

p.s. and the Cross of the Risen Christ helps explain, the initiate understand the role of geometry and the right angled triangle in the end game of cheSS.

only go here if you can handle more truth....
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/fascist-right-handed-rulers-in-the-vatican/

gregoryfl
08-15-2009, 01:25 PM
Namaste,

I did say, "it is not the object that is the important thing, although unfortunately people have made it so. It is what that death accomplished," and by that I do not mean that the shape is not important, or the instrument itself. It is indeed important, for those of this world. Such is the reason for all the commonalities you have so avidly researched in your blog. There are indeed many important places and events in history directly tied to the things you mention, and yes, most of Christianity (such as is presented again in your blog) is caught up in it as well.

There is however, a reality that has no part of this world or its ways, a reality that exists in an entirely different realm, one which revolves around the cross of Jesus Christ.

I realize that you believe it to be a hoax, similar to many other hoax's throughout history. But what that cross accomplished, and I mean truly accomplished, not only has absolutely nothing to do with the things you are presenting, but in fact shows it up to be a hoax even moreso than you can.

I know I do not have the mental prowess that you possess, not in my flesh. There is a mind however, that we all possess, a life that is ours, yours just as much as mine, which one day you will have the pleasure of believing. I am determined to see nothing concerning you in the flesh, but only as what pertains to Christ, and him crucified.

Ron

Raphael
08-26-2009, 08:09 AM
Namaste,


There is however, a reality that has no part of this world or its ways, a reality that exists in an entirely different realm, one which revolves around the cross of Jesus Christ.



Ron

Ron the question is simple.
What does the Cross of Jesus Christ that you keep referring to look like?
Eh?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/atlantiscross.jpg

Does it look like the Atlantis Cross?
Somebody once mentioned that this cross is longer in the south.
That got me thinking because the GREEK cross is square and the four arms are equal in length.
:confused2:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/atlantishydrogenatomcontourmap.jpg

Can we superimpose the Atlantis Cross over the hydrogen contour map?
Remember hydrogen comprises about 95% of our universe.
Is that important Ron?

namaste

gregoryfl
08-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Well, only 2 more years and we will find out how important it is, won't we? :)

Ron

Richard Amiel McGough
08-26-2009, 01:45 PM
Well, this is interesting! I have never heard of or seen the "Cross of Atlantis" before. It has a rather striking similarity to the Bible Wheel:

http://www.biblewheel.com/Art/MtView_4.jpg


Here are some images I found searching for "Cross of Atlantis" -

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/starga71.jpg


http://www.biblewheel.com/images/starga27.jpg
Schliemann’s City of the Golden Gates with Atlantis logo (1906).
Its main characteristic is the shape of the water canals and the land zones together
with the bridges forming the 'Cross of Atlantis'.
The Center represents the capitol of Atlantis.
Pic and caption from http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/stargate/stargate08.htm


Here's the basic schematic form:


http://www.biblewheel.com/images/stavrosAtl.GIF

If nothing else, these pics show how the design Canon Wheel has all the properties of a universal symbol. The significance of this comes into focus only when it is understood that no human or group of humans designed the Bible Wheel. If the pattern is not merely "accidental" then it is a sign directly from the Mind of God.

Richard

Raphael
08-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Well, this is interesting! I have never heard of or seen the "Cross of Atlantis" before. It has a rather striking similarity to the Bible Wheel:

If nothing else, these pics show how the design Canon Wheel has all the properties of a universal symbol. The significance of this comes into focus only when it is understood that no human or group of humans designed the Bible Wheel. If the pattern is not merely "accidental" then it is a sign directly from the Mind of God.

Richard

what some people call a Bible Wheel ;) I refer to the 4 Ages Symbol. :thumb:
:yo: and of course I have written something about it...

http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/4-ages-model-of-the-universe-riddle-of-the-sphinx-and-our-binary-companion/

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStepValances300px.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/greekcrosszodiaccross.jpg

Please note the concentric circles in my model...similar to the images based on Plato's description of Atlantis, that you posted.

How did I arrive at that model 2 years ago using the square GREEK Zodiacal Cross?
Showing at the same time how both the SWASTIKA and SOLOMON's KNOT were both symbols that could be connected to Precession of the Equinox cycle?
YES
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/greek-astrologers-and-nazis-had-king-solomon-in-a-knot/

namaste

Raphael
12-31-2009, 05:31 PM
Jesus died on a Cross.
Catholic Church say He was pierced in the Right Side, the Cathars say He was pierced on the Left. The Catholic Church declared this as heresy.

"YAH COMPLETES" = 258 (Gematria)
Left = 258 (Hebrew)

I love it
powerful stuff

the Church said the right...where the sheep line up on judgment day.
the Cathars said the left...where the goats line up on judgment day.

“…God is a weak left hander” -W. Pauli
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/god-is-left-handed/

obviously :yo: it is all meant as archetype...

how do I know this to be true?

WTF was a BLIND roaming Roman centurion doing up on the mount Golgotha holding the ARCHETYPAL 'spear of destiny'?

Does not make LITERAL sense.
Like MOST of the bible...which means it NEVER was meant to.

258 528 825?
the KEY 528

40 posts about the KEY 528:
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/category/key-528/

The Atlantis Cross and the KEY 528 and the Nazca Lines:
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/key-528-st-john-the-baptist-and-daniel-tammet/

:signthankspin:

namaste

Raphael