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sylvius
09-06-2014, 12:33 PM
Genesis 6:15,

And this [is the size] you shall make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its breadth, and thirty cubits its height.

fifty cubits its breadth = "chamishim ammah rachbah"

This song brought me an idea, long ago already:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tufY6oAbqOA#t=0

The sizes of the ark spell the word "lashon" = tongue, language, just that they aren't given in the right order.

During the flood the ark is lifted up by the waters. The ark being submerged eleven cubits it has nineteen cubits above the surface (you can reckon after -- see Rashi on Genesis 8:4, http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8172#showrashi=true ).

You also can reckon after that the waters at highest level were with 30 cubits above the earth. (Weinreb did). So it follows tah the ark came to touch the 50th cubit above the earth with it's top where the skylight was, "tsohar" --Genesis 6:16, You shall make a skylight for the ark, and to a cubit you shall finish it to the top.

I said: The bent "nun" changed there into an outstretched "nun".

Breadth = "rachav" - the visible reality disappears in the corners of your eyes.

"tsohar" is from root "tsahar/ "hitshir" = to press olives (to obtain the oil for the candle) --

Breadth = Greek πλάτος


cf. Mathew 7:13-14,

Εἰσέλθατε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης: ὅτι πλατεῖα ἡ πύλη καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν, καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι' αὐτῆς: τί στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες αὐτήν.
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

narrow = Hebrew "tsar"

Rachav is also the name of the whore of Jericho.

duxrow
09-06-2014, 01:26 PM
Rahab was surely a brave woman! She married Salmon and they had a son Boaz, so she became mother-in-law to Ruth, and ancestor of David. Her physical house was in the wall when the wall came down! The salvation precept is stated plainly in Josh6:25 --"And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, ...because she hid the messengers which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho." The allegory says she had the faith, Jas2:25, to oppose and defy her whore of Babylon worldly culture! :eek: Since Tamar only 'played the harlot', I'd be careful of thinking badly of Rahab. :winking0071:

sylvius
09-07-2014, 01:05 AM
""Enter by the narrow gate."

Narrow = Hebrew "tsar" - from root "tsarar" = to be hostile (inimical) towards; to discord (mus.); to be in distress, pressed, in anguish, in dire straits -- "heitseir" = to narrow, to opppress; to feel distressed; be grieved.

It seeming to be to opposite of euphoria.

Like Jesus in Getsemane = "Gat shemanim" = oil press.

We saw the skylight of the ark, "tsohar", a word that just appears in Genesis 6:16, being derived from "heitshir" - to press out oil (from the olive). (Ark = Hebrew "teivah", which does (also) mean word (as written with letters).)

You can see the word "tsohar" as "tsar" with in it's middle the letter "hey" -- the more I do press you the more is the light.

The light of which Genesis 1:4 said that God saw it to be good, "tov".

After Deuteronomy 8:8 the olive is the fruit of the sixth day. It provides the light for the seventh day, the world of time and space in which we do live, and is the garment of man(kind) in the eighth day. Eight = Hebrew "sh'monah" -- female form of "shemen"= oil.

Christ = Messiah = anointed one = the one smeared with oil.

sylvius
09-07-2014, 01:22 AM
The olive is said to have a bitter taste.

cf. Rashi on Genesis 8:11, And the dove returned to him at eventide, and behold it had plucked an olive leaf in its mouth; so Noah knew that the water had abated from upon the earth.


Heb. טָרָף,“he plucked.” The Midrash Aggadah explains it טָרָף as an expression of food, and interprets בְּפִיהָ as an expression of speech. It [the dove] said: Let my food be as bitter as an olive in the hands of the Holy One, blessed be He, and not as sweet as honey in the hands of flesh and blood. — [Sanh. 108b]

Bitter = Hebrew "mar", root of the name Miriam = Mariam = Maria = Mary.

cf. http://www.rc.net/mobile/olpca/


Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death. Amen.

toxon
09-08-2014, 11:50 PM
Perhaps this might also be of some interest Silvius?
Not sure but it seems it may be relevant to some of your comments:

Thayer's STRONGS NT 964a: Βηθζαθά, ἡ (perhaps from Chaldean זַיְתָא בֵּית, house of olives; not, as some suppose, חֲדַתָּא בֵּית, house of newness, German Neuhaus, since it cannot be shown that the Hebrew letter chet ח is ever represented by the Greek zeta ζ'), Bethzatha: John 5:2 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/5-2.htm) T (WH text) http://biblehub.com/greek/964.htm

Beth-Zatha ~ Beit-Zayit? Yea, I know, it is supposed to be a pool . . . :D

sylvius
09-09-2014, 01:20 AM
Perhaps this might also be of some interest Silvius?
Not sure but it seems it may be relevant to some of your comments:

Thayer's STRONGS NT 964a: Βηθζαθά, ἡ (perhaps from Chaldean זַיְתָא בֵּית, house of olives; not, as some suppose, חֲדַתָּא בֵּית, house of newness, German Neuhaus, since it cannot be shown that the Hebrew letter chet ח is ever represented by the Greek zeta ζ'), Bethzatha: John 5:2 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/5-2.htm) T (WH text) http://biblehub.com/greek/964.htm

Beth-Zatha ~ Beit-Zayit? Yea, I know, it is supposed to be a pool . . . :D


I thought the number of 38 years the man had been sick does constitute the clue of the passage, since 38 is gematria of "chol" which both denotes sickness and profanity.

The sixth days of the week are called "chol" as opposed to the seventh day, that is holy "kodesh" --

Jesus heals at the seventh day, the sabbath, a "crime" for which he was considered to deserve death.

We've seen, after Deuteronomy 8:8, the olive being fruit of the sixth day, the taste of it being bitter, "mar", even as bitter as death.

Ecllesiastes 7:26, . And I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, her hands are bonds; whoever is good in God's sight will escape from her, and a sinner will be taken by her.


more bitter than death = מַר מִמָּוֶת, "mar mimmavet".

So that makes it plausible that Βηθζαθά stands for "beit zayit".

The number of 5 porticos might allude to the letter "hey" that was added to "shishi" at the completion of creation.

toxon
09-10-2014, 12:41 AM
I thought the number of 38 years the man had been sick does constitute the clue of the passage, since 38 is gematria of "chol" which both denotes sickness and profanity.

The sixth days of the week are called "chol" as opposed to the seventh day, that is holy "kodesh" --

Jesus heals at the seventh day, the sabbath, a "crime" for which he was considered to deserve death.

We've seen, after Deuteronomy 8:8, the olive being fruit of the sixth day, the taste of it being bitter, "mar", even as bitter as death.

Ecllesiastes 7:26, . And I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, her hands are bonds; whoever is good in God's sight will escape from her, and a sinner will be taken by her.


more bitter than death = מַר מִמָּוֶת, "mar mimmavet".

So that makes it plausible that Βηθζαθά stands for "beit zayit".

The number of 5 porticos might allude to the letter "hey" that was added to "shishi" at the completion of creation.

That is no ordinary seventh day in Yochanan 5 my friend.
Where is there commanded a seventh day Chag? :)

sylvius
09-10-2014, 02:03 AM
That is no ordinary seventh day in Yochanan 5 my friend.
Where is there commanded a seventh day Chag? :)

John 5:8-11,

λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἔγειρε ἆρον τὸν κράβαττόν σου καὶ περιπάτει. καὶ εὐθέως ἐγένετο ὑγιὴς ὁ ἄνθρωπος, καὶ ἦρεν τὸν κράβαττον αὐτοῦ καὶ περιεπάτει. ην δὲ σάββατον ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ. ἔλεγον οὖν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι τῷ τεθεραπευμένῳ, Σάββατόν ἐστιν, καὶ οὐκ ἔξεστίν σοι ἆραι τὸν κράβαττόν σου.ὁ δὲ ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς, Ὁ ποιήσας με ὑγιῆ ἐκεῖνός μοι εἶπεν, αρον τὸν κράβαττόν σου καὶ περιπάτει.


Now I see it new,

As long as the man was sick it was'nt sabbath yet, but as soon as he was healed it was.

His healing was that he carried his bed.

Jewish tradition knows "the bed of Sodom", http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_iron_bed_of_sodom
which is like the Procrustes bed from Greek mythology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes

The clue of "Sodom's bed" lies in the word for bed, "mittah", that is in sound equivalent to "middah" = meausure.

So for example also in 1 Kings 17,19.21,

And he said to her, "Give me your son." And she took him from her bosom, and she brought him up to the upstairs chamber where he was living, and he lay him on his bed.
(...)
And he meausred himself on the boy three times, and he called to the Lord and said, "O Lord, my God, restore please the soul of this child within him.


Rashi on Genesis 1:1, "bara elohim",


But it does not say “bara hashem” for in the beginning it was His intention to create it with the Divine Standard of Justice, but he perceived that the world would not endure; so He preceded it with the Divine Standard of Mercy, allying it with the Divine Standard of Justice, and that is the reason it is written:“on the day the Lord God made earth and heaven.” (Genesis 2:4)



Divine Standard of Justice[ = "middat hadin"
Divine Standard of Mercy = "middat harachamim"

"rachamim" is an intensive form of "rechem" = womb

I think that's how God (Tetragrammaton) can be perceived as father.-- today I have begotten you in that you are carrying your bed.

toxon
09-10-2014, 07:53 PM
John 5:8-11,

λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἔγειρε ἆρον τὸν κράβαττόν σου καὶ περιπάτει. καὶ εὐθέως ἐγένετο ὑγιὴς ὁ ἄνθρωπος, καὶ ἦρεν τὸν κράβαττον αὐτοῦ καὶ περιεπάτει. ην δὲ σάββατον ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ. ἔλεγον οὖν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι τῷ τεθεραπευμένῳ, Σάββατόν ἐστιν, καὶ οὐκ ἔξεστίν σοι ἆραι τὸν κράβαττόν σου.ὁ δὲ ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς, Ὁ ποιήσας με ὑγιῆ ἐκεῖνός μοι εἶπεν, αρον τὸν κράβαττόν σου καὶ περιπάτει.


Now I see it new,

As long as the man was sick it was'nt sabbath yet, but as soon as he was healed it was.

His healing was that he carried his bed.

Jewish tradition knows "the bed of Sodom", http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_iron_bed_of_sodom
which is like the Procrustes bed from Greek mythology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes

The clue of "Sodom's bed" lies in the word for bed, "mittah", that is in sound equivalent to "middah" = meausure.

So for example also in 1 Kings 17,19.21,

And he said to her, "Give me your son." And she took him from her bosom, and she brought him up to the upstairs chamber where he was living, and he lay him on his bed.
(...)
And he meausred himself on the boy three times, and he called to the Lord and said, "O Lord, my God, restore please the soul of this child within him.


Rashi on Genesis 1:1, "bara elohim",


Divine Standard of Justice[ = "middat hadin"
Divine Standard of Mercy = "middat harachamim"

"rachamim" is an intensive form of "rechem" = womb

I think that's how God (Tetragrammaton) can be perceived as father.-- today I have begotten you in that you are carrying your bed.

Very interesting Sylvius. :) When we read that Yeshua "went up", whether speaking of a mountain, high mountain, or Yerushalaim, the word in the Greek is the same as for "to ascend", (anabaino as in Yochanan 5:1) so one can read the text either way and it depends upon the context and the understanding of the reader as to where in Tanach a certain passage may also have application, (always context first, of course, before any numerical significance). Thus one may read that Yeshua ascended into Yerushalaim, which can mean Yerushalaim of above in supernal understanding, from a counterpart context running within the text. The implications in the supernal meaning would likely therefore be related to the Mishkan, (of above as in the Epistle to the Hebrews and the book of the Revelation of Yeshua). The five "stoa"-colonnade-porticos thus become the five pillars at the door of the Mishkan. This passage imo speaks of Paradise, for Yeshua says, "There are five trees, (shittiym-pillars of Exodus 26:36-37) in Paradise for you which continue undisturbed, summer and winter, and whose leaves never fall, (perhaps the vavey-hooks are pictured as leaves from which the veil of the door of the Mishkan was hung) and whosoever becomes acquainted with them shall not experience death", (Thomas #19). Also this chag-feast day is probably the seventh of Unleavened Bread, (as commanded Exodus 13:6) and if so then that is why they came down so hard on Yeshua for this Shabbat miracle. From the Passover of Yochanan 2 then, to this Feast of Yochanan 5, are just seven days, (Nicodemus came by night during the days of Unleavened Bread). This cannot be seen in most translations because "meta", (with-amid-amidst) is so often translated "after" when it should not be, but because a western mindset generally sees everything as if occurring in successive chronological events this has become the unfortunate case. When you see "meta" or "meta tauta" rendered as "after this" or "after these things" beware; for most of the time, (imo) it is misunderstood and rather the author is instead saying that those events occurred in the midst of what other things were previously expounded, (at the same time: "META-WITH these things"). This is the key to Yochanan also because if Yeshua did not go up to Yerushalaim at the second Passover mentioned in Yochanan 6, and if indeed it is the primary Passover, (Abib) then Yeshua would have broken the law and we are clearly informed that he was in Tiberias with the feeding of the five thousand at that time according to the author. Therefore it cannot have been the Passover of Abib but was indeed Pesach Sheni, (Iyyar). The ministry of Messiah is one full year from the first Passover of Yochanan 2:13 until Golgotha because the Passover of Yochanan 6 is Pesach Sheni where he was in the Galil.

Yochanan 2:13-25 ~ Primary Passover (Abib).
Yochanan 5:1-14 ~ 7th day of Unleavened Bread, (a Chag-Feast).
Yochanan 6:1-15 ~ Pesach Sheni, Iyyar 14-21, (one month from Yochanan 2:13-25).
Yochanan 7:1-14 ~ Sukkot, Tishri 15-21, (Yesua cuts the WEEK in half, Yochanan 7:14).

2/17 Gen. 7:11, (midst of Pesach Sheni) <> 7/17 Gen. 8:4, (midst of Sukkot) = 150 DAYS/5 MONTHS.

sylvius
09-10-2014, 11:14 PM
Very interesting Sylvius. :) When we read that Yeshua "went up", whether speaking of a mountain, high mountain, or Yerushalaim, the word in the Greek is the same as for "to ascend", (anabaino as in Yochanan 5:1) so one can read the text either way and it depends upon the context and the understanding of the reader as to where in Tanach a certain passage may also have application, (always context first, of course, before any numerical significance). Thus one may read that Yeshua ascended into Yerushalaim, which can mean Yerushalaim of above in supernal understanding, from a counterpart context running within the text. The implications in the supernal meaning would likely therefore be related to the Mishkan, (of above as in the Epistle to the Hebrews and the book of the Revelation of Yeshua) ....


You always do "ascend" to Jerusalem, or "descend" from there,

cf. Mark 10:32-34,
ησαν δὲ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ ἀναβαίνοντες εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα, καὶ ἦν προάγων αὐτοὺς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, καὶ ἐθαμβοῦντο, οἱ δὲ ἀκολουθοῦντες ἐφοβοῦντο. καὶ παραλαβὼν πάλιν τοὺς δώδεκα ἤρξατο αὐτοῖς λέγειν τὰ μέλλοντα αὐτῷ συμβαίνειν, ὅτι Ἰδοὺ ἀναβαίνομεν εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα, καὶ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου παραδοθήσεται τοῖς ἀρχιερεῦσιν καὶ τοῖς γραμματεῦσιν, καὶ κατακρινοῦσιν αὐτὸν θανάτῳ καὶ παραδώσουσιν αὐτὸν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν 34καὶ ἐμπαίξουσιν αὐτῷ καὶ ἐμπτύσουσιν αὐτῷ καὶ μαστιγώσουσιν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀποκτενοῦσιν, καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας ἀναστήσεται.

Mark 3:22,
καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς οἱ ἀπὸ Ἱεροσολύμων καταβάντες ἔλεγον ὅτι Βεελζεβοὺλ ἔχει, καὶ ὅτι ἐν τῷ ἄρχοντι τῶν δαιμονίων ἐκβάλλει τὰ δαιμόνια

Interesting is that the last supper took place in an "upstairs room",
Mark 14:15,
καὶ αὐτὸς ὑμῖν δείξει ἀνάγαιον μέγα ἐστρωμένον ἕτοιμον: καὶ ἐκεῖ ἑτοιμάσατε ἡμῖν.

ἀνάγαιον = upstairs-room; Hebrew "aliyah" - which figuratively means also "heaven" -- and the word is also used for immigration (to Israel). (You ascend to Israel, and descend to Egypt)

"aliyah" also in 1Kings 17:19,
And he said to her, "Give me your son." And she took him from her bosom, and she brought him up to the upstairs room where he was living, and he lay him on his bed.

Upstairs room you can only reach via a ladder or stairway.

The upstairs-room of the last supper was a κατάλυμά (Mark 14:14) = inn, night-lodging; Hebrew "malon", from "lun" = stay overnight; spend the night.

cf. LXX Exodus 4:19,
ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ ἐν τῷ καταλύματι συνήντησεν αὐτῷ ἄγγελος κυρίου καὶ ἐζήτει αὐτὸν ἀποκτεῖναι

toxon
09-11-2014, 12:38 AM
You always do "ascend" to Jerusalem, or "descend" from there,

cf. Mark 10:32-34,
ησαν δὲ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ ἀναβαίνοντες εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα, καὶ ἦν προάγων αὐτοὺς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, καὶ ἐθαμβοῦντο, οἱ δὲ ἀκολουθοῦντες ἐφοβοῦντο. καὶ παραλαβὼν πάλιν τοὺς δώδεκα ἤρξατο αὐτοῖς λέγειν τὰ μέλλοντα αὐτῷ συμβαίνειν, ὅτι Ἰδοὺ ἀναβαίνομεν εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα, καὶ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου παραδοθήσεται τοῖς ἀρχιερεῦσιν καὶ τοῖς γραμματεῦσιν, καὶ κατακρινοῦσιν αὐτὸν θανάτῳ καὶ παραδώσουσιν αὐτὸν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν 34καὶ ἐμπαίξουσιν αὐτῷ καὶ ἐμπτύσουσιν αὐτῷ καὶ μαστιγώσουσιν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀποκτενοῦσιν, καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας ἀναστήσεται.

Mark 3:22,
καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς οἱ ἀπὸ Ἱεροσολύμων καταβάντες ἔλεγον ὅτι Βεελζεβοὺλ ἔχει, καὶ ὅτι ἐν τῷ ἄρχοντι τῶν δαιμονίων ἐκβάλλει τὰ δαιμόνια

Interesting is that the last supper took place in an "upstairs room",
Mark 14:15,
καὶ αὐτὸς ὑμῖν δείξει ἀνάγαιον μέγα ἐστρωμένον ἕτοιμον: καὶ ἐκεῖ ἑτοιμάσατε ἡμῖν.

ἀνάγαιον = upstairs-room; Hebrew "aliyah" - which figuratively means also "heaven" -- and the word is also used for immigration (to Israel). (You ascend to Israel, and descend to Egypt)

"aliyah" also in 1Kings 17:19,
And he said to her, "Give me your son." And she took him from her bosom, and she brought him up to the upstairs room where he was living, and he lay him on his bed.

Upstairs room you can only reach via a ladder or stairway.

The upstairs-room of the last supper was a κατάλυμά (Mark 14:14) = inn, night-lodging; Hebrew "malon", from "lun" = stay overnight; spend the night.

cf. LXX Exodus 4:19,
ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ ἐν τῷ καταλύματι συνήντησεν αὐτῷ ἄγγελος κυρίου καὶ ἐζήτει αὐτὸν ἀποκτεῖναι

The "Upper Room" comments from your previous post were also what I had in mind in my last post although I failed to mention it in my comments. As for "always ascending up" to Yerushalaim tell me how you do so when it is the seventh day of Unleavened Bread and you are already there in the physical city for the feast?

See what I mean? There is a secondary supernal message within the text. Paul says something strange also when he writes, "But I went up, (into Yerushalaim) by revelation", (Re: Galatians 2:1-2) and the same fourteen years he mentions also in 2Cor.12:2 speaking of being caught up to the "third heaven" and Paradise. :)

sylvius
09-11-2014, 02:25 AM
As for "always ascending up" to Yerushalaim tell me how you do so when it is the seventh day of Unleavened Bread and you are already there in the physical city for the feast? The preceding John 4 relates him being in first Samaria and then in Galilee.


See what I mean? There is a secondary supernal message within the text. Paul says something strange also when he writes, "But I went up, (into Yerushalaim) by revelation", (Re: Galatians 2:1-2) and the same fourteen years he mentions also in 2Cor.12:2 speaking of being caught up to the "third heaven" and Paradise. :)

2 Corinthinas 12 doesn't say that he spent fourteen years ïn the third heavenand Paradise, but πρὸ ἐτῶν δεκατεσσάρων = fourteen years ago.

Galatians 1:15-21 relates him to be, during these forteen years, to be first in Arabia and then again in Damascus, and then in Jerusalem, and then in Syria and Cilicia.

David M
09-11-2014, 02:38 AM
This is the key to Yochanan also because if Yeshua did not go up to Yerushalaim at the second Passover mentioned in Yochanan 6, and if indeed it is the primary Passover, (Abib) then Yeshua would have broken the law and we are clearly informed that he was in Tiberias with the feeding of the five thousand at that time according to the author. Therefore it cannot have been the Passover of Abib but was indeed Pesach Sheni, (Iyyar). The ministry of Messiah is one full year from the first Passover of Yochanan 2:13 until Golgotha because the Passover of Yochanan 6 is Pesach Sheni where he was in the Galil.

Yochanan 2:13-25 ~ Primary Passover (Abib).
Yochanan 5:1-14 ~ 7th day of Unleavened Bread, (a Chag-Feast).
Yochanan 6:1-15 ~ Pesach Sheni, Iyyar 14-21, (one month from Yochanan 2:13-25).
Yochanan 7:1-14 ~ Sukkot, Tishri 15-21, (Yesua cuts the WEEK in half, Yochanan 7:14).

2/17 Gen. 7:11, (midst of Pesach Sheni) <> 7/17 Gen. 8:4, (midst of Sukkot) = 150 DAYS/5 MONTHS.
Hello toxon

Have you studied the teaching of Michael Rood? I think your conclusion agrees with his. He has worked out the chronology of the Gospels and determines the ministry of Jesus lasted 70 weeks. MR says that John 6:4 is an insertion not found in earlier texts. He reckons that verse was inserted to make the chronology determined by Eusebius to fit in with a 3.5-year ministry of Jesus. This was as a result of not understanding Daniel's 70-week prophecy.

The feeding of the 5,000 is the only miracle recorded in all four Gospels which acts to synchronize the Gospels. From this, MR has worked forward and backward to work out the chronology of the Gospel records.

Because of Eusebius, either we are left with long periods in the ministry of Jesus in which nothing is reported or nothing happened, or we end up in a situation as you have pointed out, when Jesus would have been breaking the Torah.

All the best
David

dpenn
09-11-2014, 11:22 AM
Hello toxon

Have you studied the teaching of Michael Rood? I think your conclusion agrees with his. He has worked out the chronology of the Gospels and determines the ministry of Jesus lasted 70 weeks. MR says that John 6:4 is an insertion not found in earlier texts. He reckons that verse was inserted to make the chronology determined by Eusebius to fit in with a 3.5-year ministry of Jesus. This was as a result of not understanding Daniel's 70-week prophecy.

The feeding of the 5,000 is the only miracle recorded in all four Gospels which acts to synchronize the Gospels. From this, MR has worked forward and backward to work out the chronology of the Gospel records.

Because of Eusebius, either we are left with long periods in the ministry of Jesus in which nothing is reported or nothing happened, or we end up in a situation as you have pointed out, when Jesus would have been breaking the Torah.



I have read that Eusebius is not trustworthy by many Christian scholars, but I must admit, I have not studied the accurateness or errors of Eusebius. And I don't know what he has to say about Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy, but I do know what Daniel 9:24-27 says, and that should be our only standard of truth. Clearly, only Jesus the Christ (the Messiah) could fulfill this prophesy:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

If Jesus was the author of this covenant, not some anti-christ, then that would be 3.5 years to His being cut off.

Is it also possible that MR missed it (I tried but I just couldn't pull off MR mister)? Sometimes the obsession with so many today to denounce the Trinity, reminds me of the time Peter and James were arrested for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and after being threatened, they were released, upon which they quoted from Ps 2:1-2 in Acts 4:25-26,

Psalm 2:1-12:

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

When you couple this with the most powerful prophesy of Isaiah 9:6,7:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Add to that my Scriptures listed for the Trinity in the Jesus is God post, and I echo David, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing"

I am just thankful that God commands me to try to live at peace with all people, but yet to speak the truth in love.

dp

toxon
09-11-2014, 03:25 PM
The preceding John 4 relates him being in first Samaria and then in Galilee.



2 Corinthinas 12 doesn't say that he spent fourteen years ïn the third heavenand Paradise, but πρὸ ἐτῶν δεκατεσσάρων = fourteen years ago.

Galatians 1:15-21 relates him to be, during these forteen years, to be first in Arabia and then again in Damascus, and then in Jerusalem, and then in Syria and Cilicia.

Yochanan 4 reveals that every seventh hour of the day is a Shabbat. In addition pay close attention to the days, (for example two days are spent there). As for fourteen years spent in the third heaven and Paradise that is preposterous and I never said that or suggested it. I simply stated that Paul mentions the fourteen years again in that context. He mentions the fourteen years for a reason, (remez-pointer). :)


Hello toxon

Have you studied the teaching of Michael Rood? I think your conclusion agrees with his. He has worked out the chronology of the Gospels and determines the ministry of Jesus lasted 70 weeks. MR says that John 6:4 is an insertion not found in earlier texts. He reckons that verse was inserted to make the chronology determined by Eusebius to fit in with a 3.5-year ministry of Jesus. This was as a result of not understanding Daniel's 70-week prophecy.

The feeding of the 5,000 is the only miracle recorded in all four Gospels which acts to synchronize the Gospels. From this, MR has worked forward and backward to work out the chronology of the Gospel records.

Because of Eusebius, either we are left with long periods in the ministry of Jesus in which nothing is reported or nothing happened, or we end up in a situation as you have pointed out, when Jesus would have been breaking the Torah.

All the best
David

Hi David, no I have not studied or heard any of the teachings of Michael Rood but my understanding has been available online for years now so perhaps he has seen mine? Also the various accounts of the feeding of the five thousand are not all the same event, as most people seem to think, just because similar occasions are recorded in the four accounts. The one in Yochanan occurs at Tiberias while another one occurs in the arabah-plain at the Salt Sea, not far from Tyrus, just after Yochanan the Immerser was beheaded in the Blood Moon eclipse of Sivan 23, (according to my Torah Calendar which is not Lunar but Equinoctial). :)

toxon
09-11-2014, 04:16 PM
Sorry Sylvius, you are correct, I misspoke concerning Yeshua being in Yerushalaim, (it has been a while since I have gone over this and I should have checked before writing). If you count the days including the night and a day for the discourse with Nicodemus then it ends up being the seventh day of Unleavened Bread when Yeshua arrives back in the Galil, (by way of Sychar of Samaria) and the only way for Yeshua to have "gone up to Yerushalaim" would have been in the supernal way, to ascend, as Paul also speaks, (not in the physical). However this is still lawful because Yeshua was at Yerushalaim in the physical at the opening of Unleavened Bread. It is the only conclusion that may lawfully be drawn because in the next Passover, (the Pesach Sheni Yochanan 6) Yeshua is not in Yerushalaim but at Tiberias. In order for that to be Pesach Sheni the "feast" of Yochanan 5 must be the seventh day of Unleavened Bread which is the only Chag-Feast commanded in any seventh day, (again Exodus 13:6). Since Yeshua was in Yerushalaim for the opening of Unleavened Bread, at the Passover of Yochanan 2, that is the only way the entire passage can be properly understood according to Torah. Thus the point was correct but the way I went about explaining it off the top of my head was incorrect. :)