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Rose
07-25-2008, 04:35 PM
This is an excellent read on the fulfilled prophecies of Jesus.
It's made available free of charge. :)

http://www.craigdemo.co.uk/sonofman.htm


Rose

Craig.Paardekooper
12-19-2010, 04:08 PM
The Sign of the Son of Man is a concise history of extraordinary events that occurred between 30 A.D. and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

The resurrection and Ascension were not the end of the story. An intense drama was played out in Israel culminating in the appearance of The Star, the fleeing of the church to a place of refuge, and the fiery conflagration of Jerusalem. It is hard to imagine a more dramatic story.

Richard Amiel McGough
12-20-2010, 10:36 AM
The Sign of the Son of Man is a concise history of extraordinary events that occurred between 30 A.D. and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

The resurrection and Ascension were not the end of the story. An intense drama was played out in Israel culminating in a appearance of The Star and the fiery conflagration of Jerusalem. It is hard to imagine a more dramatic story.
Yes indeed, those events were an amazingly dramatic culmination of the 2000 year drama that began with Abraham. It is sad that most Christians are ignorant of the fulfillment of the prophecies in the first century.

Craig.Paardekooper
12-20-2010, 04:07 PM
Hi Richard,

I think the whole episode would make a fantastic film. The unrolling of events was so dramatic from beginning to end. Perhaps even a documentary.

Craig

Craig.Paardekooper
05-08-2011, 12:11 AM
History has an odd way of repeating itself -


600,000 Jews entered the Promised Land in the time of Joshua

600,000 Jews founded the State of Israel in 1948




Some curious facts -


Germany has compiled a list of some 600,000 Jews who lived in Germany from 1933 to 1945 and suffered discrimination by the Nazis, an index that is to be distributed among leading archives to help descendants research the fate of their families.

The Holocaust (literally meaning "burnt offering") may be graphically depicted by the pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night that hung over the death camps where Jews were systematically gased and and their bodies incinerated.

Immediately following the Holocaust (burnt offering) the State of Israel was founded in 1948. In 1948, there were 600,000 Jews living in Israel.



The end of what is termed the Roman Exile, which began in the year 70 and only ended in 1948 61 years ago, only saw 600,000 Jews in Israel initially, with the rest of the population staying in their home countries in the West more or less




According to the Torah, the lives of the 600,000 Israelites were ransomed by the burnt offerings - and ultimately by the sacrifice of their Messiah.

However the Jews rejected their Messiah. In so doing, they chose to bear the price of sin themselves.

That is why I find it a peculiar repetition of history that just before the establishment of the State of Israel we have a Holocaust ("Burnt Offering") -
the persecution of 600,000 Jews living in Germany
the pillar of cloud by day and fire by night
600,000 Jews occupying the new State of Israel in 1948

Richard Amiel McGough
05-08-2011, 09:20 AM
History has an odd way of repeating itself -


600,000 Jews entered the Promised Land in the time of Joshua
600,000 Jews founded the State of Israel in 1948




Some curious facts -


Germany has compiled a list of some 600,000 Jews who lived in Germany from 1933 to 1945 and suffered discrimination by the Nazis, an index that is to be distributed among leading archives to help descendants research the fate of their families.
The Holocaust (literally meaning "burnt offering") may be graphically depicted by the pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night that hung over the death camps where Jews were systematically gased and and their bodies incinerated.
Immediately following the Holocaust (burnt offering) the State of Israel was founded in 1948. In 1948, there were 600,000 Jews living in Israel.






According to the Torah, the lives of the 600,000 Israelites were ransomed by the burnt offerings - and ultimately by the sacrifice of their Messiah.

However the Jews rejected their Messiah. In so doing, they chose to bear the price of sin themselves.

That is why I find it a peculiar repetition of history that just before the establishment of the State of Israel we have a Holocaust ("Burnt Offering") -

the persecution of 600,000 Jews living in Germany
the pillar of cloud by day and fire by night
600,000 Jews occupying the new State of Israel in 1948


Where did you get the statistical information? It would be helpful if you provided links to your sources.

I agree history is full of "curious" coincidences. I used to think that Jeremiah 16 related to the holocaust and establishment of the modern state of Israel:

Jeremiah 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; 15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. 16 ΒΆ Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. 17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. 18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.
When read out of context, it seems that Jeremiah could be talking about the "return" of modern "Israel" to the land of Biblical Israel, and that he predicted the holocaust was a fulfillment of the prophecy that "first I will recompense their sin double" with specific reference to many carcases.

But when read in context, we see that Jeremiah was talking about the return of Biblical Israel to the land after the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC. It has nothing to do with modern times, except, of course, as the basis of the "curious coincidences" that you are noting.

All the best.

Craig.Paardekooper
05-10-2011, 03:27 AM
Hi RAM,

Here are some references for these stats -


Number of Jews In Israel in 1948

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/war/

http://www.hanefesh.com/edu/Holidays/Israel_Independence_Day.htm

http://208.84.118.121/pf_mandate_overview.php

Richard Amiel McGough
05-10-2011, 11:49 AM
Hi RAM,

Here are some references for these stats -


Number of Jews In Israel in 1948

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/war/

http://www.hanefesh.com/edu/Holidays/Israel_Independence_Day.htm

http://208.84.118.121/pf_mandate_overview.php
Thanks for the sources. Unfortunately, it's hard to confirm the numbers and different sources give different counts. The official Israeli census bureau (http://www1.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/templ_shnaton_e.html?num_tab=st02_01&CYear=2006) says the average population of Jews in Israel for the year 1948 was 671,900 and that there were 872,700 by the end of the year. But this page (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/newpop.html) from the Virtual Jewish Library lists the population of Jews in what appears to be all the major cities in Israel, and the total only comes to 445,750 in 1948. And this page (http://www.factsofisrael.com/en/stats.shtml) says there were 646,000 in 1948, excluding those that lived in the West Bank and Gaza, but if that must be something like an annual average since the population was growing so rapidly. So it seems that the round figure "600,000" was chosen for a reason other than it's accuracy. And what might that reason be? The answer is painfully obvious. The Jews have an ancient tradition that there are "600,000 souls of Israel." Obviously, this tradition started with the 600,000 of Exodus 12:37. But it was also extended to the Torah, where some Rabbi made up the idea that there were 600,000 letters in the Torah, one for each "soul of Israel." Some Jews are still under the misconception about the number of letters in the Torah, which is the subject of a Q/A on Chabad.org (http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1254056/jewish/Where-Are-the-600000-Letters-of-the-Torah.htm) which attempts to make up reasons for the error. Here is a relevant part of their "explanation" -

The 600,000 letters correspond to the 600,000 souls of Israel. Although there are many more than 600,000 Jews, there are 600,000 general souls which divide into the individual sparks that become each of our souls.
Now how "convenient" is that? The real number of Jews in Palestine around the time of the founding of the modern state of Israel was "close enough" to be approximated by the ancient traditional number of the "souls of Israel." What Jew could fail to choose to use the number "600,000" in such a case? But is there any real meaning here? Nope. The number in Exodus was speaking only of the Israeli men! The women and children were not counted. But in the founding of Israel in 1948, the total population of men, women, and children were counted. So the two numbers are counting entirely different groups. And besides that, the number 600,000 is a very rough approximation anyway.

Therefore, it seems to me that the choice of the number "600,000" was strongly influenced by Jewish tradition, and it represented a different group than that of Exodus 12:37. So as far as I can tell, there is no "meaningful coincidence" here that could not be attributed to chance and human choice.

As for the pillar of cloud and of fire - do you have any evidence that the smoke was "lit up" at night? Most chimneys do not transmit light or cause the pillar of smoke to look like a pillar of fire. Therefore, the analogy seems a bit of a stretch.

Great chatting,

Richard

Craig.Paardekooper
05-14-2011, 05:26 PM
the average population of Jews in Israel for the year 1948 was 671,900 and that there were 872,700 by the end of the year. But this page from the Virtual Jewish Library lists the population of Jews in what appears to be all the major cities in Israel, and the total only comes to 445,750 in 1948. And this page says there were 646,000 in 1948

671000 is the average population for the year 1948. However my interest is in the population in May 1948 when the Jewish state was established.

The Jewish population in Israel grew very rapidly after May 1948. Within 4 years it doubled. So it is important to get the figures for May 1948.

The Official Israeli Census Bureau figures show that the average population for 1948 was 671,900. However it does not say that the population at the end of the year was 872,700. Rather it says that the population at the end of the year was 758,700. 872,700 refers to the total population of Jews and Christians. 758,700 refers to the total population of Jews alone.

Since 671,900 is the average for the whole year, and 758,700 was the population at the end of the year, then the population at the beginning of 1948 is given by -

(758,700 + x)/2 = 671,900

Therefore x = 585,100

If the popukation at the beginning of 1948 was 585,100, and the population at the end of 1948 was 758,700, then at some point in the year 1948 the population was 600,000 exactly.

Perhaps further research will pinpoint the month.


But this page from the Virtual Jewish Library lists the population of Jews in what appears to be all the major cities in Israel, and the total only comes to 445,750 in 1948

This page only shows the 1948 population figures for 17 of the major cities. No where does this page claim to show the total population figures, eg all cities including the smaller ones.


And this page says there were 646,000 in 1948, excluding those that lived in the West Bank and Gaza

As is apparent from the Official Israeli Census Bureau figures, the population of Israel was growing rapidly, and this figure is only an average for the year. At the beginning of the year 1948 it was below 600,000, and at the end of the year is was above 600,000. At some point in 1948 it was exactly 600,000.



So it seems that the round figure "600,000" was chosen for a reason other than it's accuracy. And what might that reason be? The answer is painfully obvious. The Jews have an ancient tradition that there are "600,000 souls of Israel." Obviously, this tradition started with the 600,000 of Exodus 12:37. But it was also extended to the Torah, where some Rabbi made up the idea that there were 600,000 letters in the Torah, one for each "soul of Israel." Some Jews are still under the misconception about the number of letters in the Torah, which is the subject of a Q/A on Chabad.org which attempts to make up reasons for the error. Here is a relevant part of their "explanation" -
The 600,000 letters correspond to the 600,000 souls of Israel. Although there are many more than 600,000 Jews, there are 600,000 general souls which divide into the individual sparks that become each of our souls.

Now how "convenient" is that? The real number of Jews in Palestine around the time of the founding of the modern state of Israel was "close enough" to be approximated by the ancient traditional number of the "souls of Israel." What Jew could fail to choose to use the number "600,000" in such a case? But is there any real meaning here? Nope. The number in Exodus was speaking only of the Israeli men! The women and children were not counted. But in the founding of Israel in 1948, the total population of men, women, and children were counted. So the two numbers are counting entirely different groups. And besides that, the number 600,000 is a very rough approximation anyway.

Therefore, it seems to me that the choice of the number "600,000" was strongly influenced by Jewish tradition, and it represented a different group than that of Exodus 12:37. So as far as I can tell, there is no "meaningful coincidence" here that could not be attributed to chance and human choice.



I don't think you need to be a believer in these Rabbinic myths inorder to see the odd coincidence here. Jewish history has many odd repetitions. I attribute these to the actions of God acting within Jewish History, rather than to human fabrication. My book, The Sign of the Son of Man, is full of such repeating patterns.

I value your skepticism since it throws down a challenge and forces me to be clearer in what I believe..


The number in Exodus was speaking only of the Israeli men! The women and children were not counted. But in the founding of Israel in 1948, the total population of men, women, and children were counted. So the two numbers are counting entirely different groups

Exodus seems to stress the number 600,000 as a key number leaving Egypt. Then 40 years later, on entering the Land it stresses again the number 600,000. I still find it a coincidence that the population of Israel reached 600,000 for the first time in the year that it was founded in 1948.


As for the pillar of cloud and of fire - do you have any evidence that the smoke was "lit up" at night? Most chimneys do not transmit light or cause the pillar of smoke to look like a pillar of fire. Therefore, the analogy seems a bit of a stretch.

The smoke did not come just from the chimneys. There were large open pits where bodies were burnt. They produced a column of smoke by day, and by night was a perpetual glow of fire. Perhaps here I should list some of the eye-witness accounts.

Craig.Paardekooper
02-19-2012, 08:00 AM
For people who prefer to use Kindles, I have created an updated Kindle Version of the Book " Sign of the Son of Man". It is available here -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006VXHRIS