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View Full Version : Lucid testimony of a man who broke free from the shackles of Christianity



Richard Amiel McGough
08-17-2014, 10:10 AM
This man was brainwashed as a child. This is the story of how he found freedom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHkODIfNsNg

Rose
08-17-2014, 12:08 PM
This man was brainwashed as a child. This is the story of how he found freedom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHkODIfNsNg


Excellent testimony of one man's journey out of the faith. I especially related to what he said about not challenging any of his beliefs in the three decades he was a Christian and when he finally started to question the Bible it began to crumble. Fact of the matter is, evidence makes blind faith unnecessary, so if the Bible were based on evidence there would be no need to promote the idea of belief in things that are unseen.

CWH
08-17-2014, 02:56 PM
Excellent testimony of one man's journey out of the faith. I especially related to what he said about not challenging any of his beliefs in the three decades he was a Christian and when he finally started to question the Bible it began to crumble. Fact of the matter is, evidence makes blind faith unnecessary, so if the Bible were based on evidence there would be no need to promote the idea of belief in things that are unseen.


This man was brainwashed as a child. This is the story of how he found freedom

Don't be deluded; none of us can be truly free as we are still confined by our bias, limitations and principles. We are also confined by secular laws, morals, ethics, rules an regulations and the cocoons we call home and country.

God is everywhere and we are subjected by His laws in His creations wherever and whenever we are....gravity, weather, natural laws, sciences, diseases, death. Can we really escape from all these artificial and God's confinements? We can run away from God, but for how long when soon death will catch up with us and we will have to account to Him for what we have done in our lives.

In other words, no matter how free we are, we still have to face God one day to account for what we have done in our lives on earth. This is referenced in Jesus parables of the sheep and the goats and in Revelations. Don't be a fool who says there is no God.

God Bless.::pray:

Rose
08-17-2014, 03:48 PM
Don't be deluded; none of us can be truly free as we are still confined by our bias, limitations and principles. We are also confined by secular laws, morals, ethics, rules an regulations and the cocoons we call home and country.

God is everywhere and we are subjected by His laws in His creations wherever and whenever we are....gravity, weather, natural laws, sciences, diseases, death. Can we really escape from all these artificial and God's confinements? We can run away from God, but for how long when soon death will catch up with us and we will have to account to Him for what we have done in our lives.

In other words, no matter how free we are, we still have to face God one day to account for what we have done in our lives on earth. This is referenced in Jesus parables of the sheep and the goats and in Revelations. Don't be a fool who says there is no God.

God Bless.::pray:

The reason you say that none of us can be truly free is because you are still in bondage to the biases, limitations and principles of the Bible. I found my freedom when I broke the chains that bound me to a archaic religion that was invented by superstitious, primitive men. There is no evidence for god, that is why believers must have "blind faith" in order to believe in god.

I think it's more accurate to say that it is the fool who says there is a god and keeps himself in bondage to religious dogmas. Someday, I hope you too will experience the freedom from religion that Richard and I enjoy. :D

Kind regards,
Rose

Richard Amiel McGough
08-17-2014, 04:49 PM
Don't be deluded; none of us can be truly free as we are still confined by our bias, limitations and principles. We are also confined by secular laws, morals, ethics, rules an regulations and the cocoons we call home and country.

Hey there Cheow,

Those are excellent points. They reveal why it is so important for people to question the presuppositions they have inherited from their parents, culture, and even language (which has built-in presuppositions). The solution is to be skeptical of things that you don't have evidence for. The curious thing about believers is that they tend to be exceedingly skeptical about any evidence (no matter how well established) that contradicts what they want to believe even as they are entirely unskeptical about those very beliefs.



God is everywhere and we are subjected by His laws in His creations wherever and whenever we are....gravity, weather, natural laws, sciences, diseases, death. Can we really escape from all these artificial and God's confinements? We can run away from God, but for how long when soon death will catch up with us and we will have to account to Him for what we have done in our lives.

What God? You have no evidence of any god. It is nothing but a blind tradition you have received from other people who didn't know what they were talking about and gave you no evidence to support your belief. If you applied the same skepticism you have for science to your religious beliefs, they would crumble to dust.



In other words, no matter how free we are, we still have to face God one day to account for what we have done in our lives on earth. This is referenced in Jesus parables of the sheep and the goats and in Revelations. Don't be a fool who says there is no God.

It is not foolish to doubt the reality of Allah, Krishna, Vishnu, or Zeus. Why then would it be folly to doubt the existence of Yahweh?

CWH
08-17-2014, 07:40 PM
The reason you say that none of us can be truly free is because you are still in bondage to the biases, limitations and principles of the Bible. I found my freedom when I broke the chains that bound me to a archaic religion that was invented by superstitious, primitive men. There is no evidence for god, that is why believers must have "blind faith" in order to believe in god.

I think it's more accurate to say that it is the fool who says there is a god and keeps himself in bondage to religious dogmas. Someday, I hope you too will experience the freedom from religion that Richard and I enjoy. :D

Kind regards,
Rose
Hi Rose,

Let me tell you what True Freedom is all about....see Revelations 21

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


1. No more death i.e. eternal life; no more death from wars, diseases, injuries etc.
2. No more crying and sorrow i.e. no more sufferings, hardships, frustrations, disappointments, cheatings and inequality
3. No more pain i.e. pain, diseases, injuries, violence, crimes.

These are True Freedom unlike on earth where even if there is freedom, it is only temporary. Where on earth can you find freedom from death, sorrow and pain? I see the Kingdom of Heaven as above as physical just like the Earth as described in the Lord's prayer, "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven". It is like living in an Utopian world in the 30th century!

Seek ye first the KIngdom of God and His Righteousness and all these things will be added onto you.....what are all these things?...freedom from death, pain and sorrow + living in luxury and abundance:

Matthew 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Abundant Living:

Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.


Don't everyone wants those things? and God knew we want these things....but Seek the Kingdom of Heaven and His Righteousness first and all these things wil be given unto you.

Jesus said: John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

That is Real and True Freedom.

Hope we can all enjoy each other company in True Freedom in the Kingdom of Heaven by striving for the Kingdom of Heaven and His Righteousness.

God Bless.:pray:

Rose
08-17-2014, 07:56 PM
Hi Rose,

Let me tell you what True Freedom is all about....see Revelations 21

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


1. No more death i.e. eternal life; no more death from wars, diseases, injuries etc.
2. No more crying and sorrow i.e. no more sufferings, hardships, frustrations, disappointments, cheatings and inequality
3. No more pain i.e. pain, diseases, injuries, violence, crimes.

These are True Freedom unlike on earth where even if there is freedom, it is only temporary. Where on earth can you find freedom from death, sorrow and pain? I see the Kingdom of Heaven as above as physical just like the Earth as described in the Lord's prayer, "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven". It is like living in an Utopian world in the 30th century!


God Bless.:pray:

Hello Cheow,

If your god truly exists, freedom from death, sorrow and pain would be realities today and not just something hoped for in some mythological place in the future.

Richard Amiel McGough
08-17-2014, 08:11 PM
Don't everyone wants those things? and God knew we want these things....but Seek the Kingdom of Heaven and His Righteousness first and all these things wil be given unto you.

Jesus said: John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

That is Real and True Freedom.

That verse represents the ultimate irony of Christianity. Believers claim to love the truth, but in actuality they utterly despise it because it reveals that their dogmas are false. E.g. they claim that the earth is 6,000 years old and that there was an Adam and Eve and a talking serpent, etc., etc., etc.

CWH
08-22-2014, 07:20 AM
Hello Cheow,

If your god truly exists, freedom from death, sorrow and pain would be realities today and not just something hoped for in some mythological place in the future.
The problem is that evil existed today which is the main reason why there are so many sufferings, wars, poverty, pain sorrows. To have true freedom we need to get rid of all those evils and evil people for good. Only then can we have true freedom. It is because of the evil of hum as which was why God reduced the maximum longetivi to be about 120 years. Imagine living in a world where evil men live forever, will we have real freedom from death, sorrow and pain? Can you suggest to us how to get rid of all evils and evil people so that this world will be a much better place to live in?

Same as I put it to you, if the theory of evolution is true, freedom of death, sorrow and pain would have been a reality today after evolving for so many million of years.

God Bles.:pray:

CWH
08-22-2014, 08:02 AM
Hey there Cheow,

Those are excellent points. They reveal why it is so important for people to question the presuppositions they have inherited from their parents, culture, and even language (which has built-in presuppositions). The solution is to be skeptical of things that you don't have evidence for. The curious thing about believers is that they tend to be exceedingly skeptical about any evidence (no matter how well established) that contradicts what they want to believe even as they are entirely unskeptical about those very beliefs.


What God? You have no evidence of any god. It is nothing but a blind tradition you have received from other people who didn't know what they were talking about and gave you no evidence to support your belief. If you applied the same skepticism you have for science to your religious beliefs, they would crumble to dust.
I have said that God is the super intelligent force in the universe. This is the reason why we see inteligence in everything in nature and the universe, therefore, The study of science is the study of God's creation or intelligent force.



It is not foolish to doubt the reality of Allah, Krishna, Vishnu, or Zeus. Why then would it be folly to doubt the existence of Yahweh?
I never doubt the goodness of all these religions as they teach us all to do good. The reason why there are so many religions is the same was why there are so many nations. It caters to individual preferences, cultures and beliefs, and variety is the spice of life. Ultimately, all religions will fall into Christianity when Christ comes. Doing good will have fulfill the secoand commandment to Love they neighbor as thyself. Will you not become a Christian if you see Christ came with his hordes of angels?

God Bless.

CWH
08-22-2014, 08:44 AM
That verse represents the ultimate irony of Christianity. Believers claim to love the truth, but in actuality they utterly despise it because it reveals that their dogmas are false. E.g. they claim that the earth is 6,000 years old and that there was an Adam and Eve and a talking serpent, etc., etc., etc.
Neither can science be absolutely true, there are many errors in the past such as the theory of Phlogiston. I am not saying science is not important but I am saying that science is not always right. Earth may be millions of years old but Creation may only be thousands of years old.,,, same as the US is only a few hundred years old but the continent of America may be millions of years old. Anyway, I don't believe the Earth is hundreds of million of years old or the continents would have been eroded and will not present the fitting shapes as we can see presently. Many Bible passages as we know speak symbolically and I never believe Adam and Eve spoke to a serpent but to something representing a serpent.

You can't use the speed of light to measure the age of the universe. Supposed I create Light and it travels at the speed of light. don't you think I can also speed it up or stretch it like a rubber band?....And that's what the Bible said. Even the Big Bang theory now states that the force of the explosion travels faster than the speed of light! How crazy is this? And if the force of the Big Bang travels faster than the speed of light, then more obviously you can't use the speed of light as a measurement of the age of the universe. BTW, if there is a Big Bang, what caused the Big Bang?... nobody could explain as it is just a speculation.

Can starlight reached the earth in one day? Is it a divine Day lasting several thousand years or did God speeded the speed of light?

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,



The Bible said the heavens were "stretched" (including light):

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isaiah 51:13 And forgettest the Lord thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

Jeremiah 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Hint: to stretch something, you need at least two opposing forces pulling in opposite directions.

God Bless.:pray:

Richard Amiel McGough
08-22-2014, 11:51 AM
Neither can science be absolutely true, there are many errors in the past such as the theory of Phlogiston.

Scientists never claim that science is "absolutely true." All scientists know that science is always progressing closer to the truth. The same cannot be said of religion which tends to keep people in darkness and ignorance.



I am not saying science is not important but I am saying that science is not always right.

Nobody says science is always right.



Earth may be millions of years old but Creation may only be thousands of years old.,,, same as the US is only a few hundred years old but the continent of America may be millions of years old.

Yes, that is one solution. Hugh Ross believes in an old earth (4.5 billion years) with a recent creation of Adam and Eve sometime in the last 50,000 years or so. I don't find his arguments convincing.



Anyway, I don't believe the Earth is hundreds of million of years old or the continents would have been eroded and will not present the fitting shapes as we can see presently.

So you reject the entire body of modern science, including physics, chemistry, biology, astrophysics, geology, etc. Why am I not suprised?



Many Bible passages as we know speak symbolically and I never believe Adam and Eve spoke to a serpent but to something representing a serpent.

You do not "know" they speak symbolically. You just choose to believe that. Other Christians totally disagree and say it must be interpreted literally. How is anyone to know which interpretation is correct? If there is no way to test the Bible then there is no way for you to know what is true.



You can't use the speed of light to measure the age of the universe. Supposed I create Light and it travels at the speed of light. don't you think I can also speed it up or stretch it like a rubber band?....And that's what the Bible said.

Oh really? That's funny, because the Bible never mentioned anything like the "speed of light." We humans had to discover that on our own.

Your argument fails because if you "stretched" the light you would change its frequency. It's called the "Dopler effect."



Even the Big Bang theory now states that the force of the explosion travels faster than the speed of light! How crazy is this?

It doesn't say that. You simply don't understand the science. It was the expansion of the SPACE, not the material in the space, that happened faster than the speed of light. There's nothing "crazy" about it at all.



And if the force of the Big Bang travels faster than the speed of light, then more obviously you can't use the speed of light as a measurement of the age of the universe.

Not true. It's not the "force" of the Big Bang, it was the expansion of space itself. And the inflation lasted only a very short time, and we can account for it to find an accurate age of the universe. You are just making up stuff based on your fundamental misunderstanding of the science.



BTW, if there is a Big Bang, what caused the Big Bang?... nobody could explain as it is just a speculation.

So what? The fact that humans don't have all knowledge implies nothing. Certainly not the existence of a god.



The Bible said the heavens were "stretched" (including light):

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isaiah 51:13 And forgettest the Lord thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

Jeremiah 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Hint: to stretch something, you need at least two opposing forces pulling in opposite directions.

God Bless.:pray:
That's POETIC language. It has nothing to do with modern cosmology.

Richard Amiel McGough
08-22-2014, 12:23 PM
Same as I put it to you, if the theory of evolution is true, freedom of death, sorrow and pain would have been a reality today after evolving for so many million of years.

Your comment is ludicrous. There is nothing in the theory of evolution that would suggest that "freedom of death, sorrow and pain would have been a reality today." Why do you write such blatant absurdities?

Richard Amiel McGough
08-22-2014, 12:29 PM
I have said that God is the super intelligent force in the universe. This is the reason why we see inteligence in everything in nature and the universe, therefore, The study of science is the study of God's creation or intelligent force.

You can say what you want. That doesn't make it true. You have given no reason to think there is a "super intelligent force in the universe." On the contrary, all the evidence suggests that natural law, without any "intelligence" explains everything we see in the universe.



I never doubt the goodness of all these religions as they teach us all to do good. The reason why there are so many religions is the same was why there are so many nations. It caters to individual preferences, cultures and beliefs, and variety is the spice of life.

That's not true. The reason there are so many religions is because people in different cultures made up their own religions. There is no reason to think that any of them are true, and we know they can't all be true because they contradict each other.



Ultimately, all religions will fall into Christianity when Christ comes. Doing good will have fulfill the secoand commandment to Love they neighbor as thyself. Will you not become a Christian if you see Christ came with his hordes of angels?

And Muslims say that all religions will be Islam when Christ returns. They believe that Jesus was a Muslim and that he will convert or kill all the Christians when he returns. Obviously, the various religions in the world are inconsistent with each other.

Would I become a Christian again if I saw Christ return with "his hordes of angels." Sure. And I'd become a Muslim if Christ returned with his "hordes of angels" and declared Islam is true. Obviosly, there's no reason to discuss this since there is no reason to believe that Christ is ever coming back as a Christian or a Muslim or Hindu ...