PDA

View Full Version : spoke 17



gilgal
07-01-2008, 01:14 PM
Jeremiah 17:15
Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
2 Peter 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Malachi 3:2
But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
2 Peter 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Victor
07-09-2008, 08:14 AM
Nice link Gilgal! The second one, "of his coming", has been documented by Richard in the article Where is the Promise of His Coming? (http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Peh_Coming.asp).

The first one was not very easy to understand at first. But now I see it. The two verses exhibit the same defying attitude common to Spoke 17.

Jeremiah 17:15
Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
2 Peter 3:4 (Spoke 17)
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Now the reference to John 17:24 has no link that I can see. The mere "where" does not link to anything by itself, and the idea is distinct.

Thank you for your outpour of links!
Victor

gilgal
07-10-2008, 09:45 AM
Thanks Victor!

I was building a search engine where you can check a few verses and search. If the the result render 4 or more words in a verse elsewhere it would show.

Unfortunately I don't have this search engine online yet. It's taking months to get to what I want. Also I'm having difficulty uploading the bible db and connecting to it on the servers.

gilgal
07-28-2008, 10:17 PM
This week I read in several places that the altar to whom the unknown god was dedicated to in Acts 17 in Athens was actually the altar of Saturn where there was no image thought of.

Correct me if I'm wrong but here are google results (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=9Vh&q=%22unknown+god%22+saturn&start=10&sa=N).

Saturn means hidden. It's an interesting word. Saturn in Hebrew Satur is spelled out Samech Tav Vav Resh. The numerical value is 60+400+6+200=666.

It's curious for me to find out that the altar dedicated to the unknown god is mentioned in the inner wheel of Acts Spoke 17.

It is known that the book of Esther has no mentioning of God anywhere. And the name Esther is a variation of the word Satur mentioned above meaning hidden written Aleph Samech Tav Vav Resh.

Another word mentioned in Acts 17 and Esther is Mars/Mordechai. I don't know what the significance of it's mentioning is. Mars is the god of war. Mordechai is a variation of it, also Marduk or Merodach I believe was also found in Spoke 17 (Isaiah 39).

Also Alexander Hislop mentioned that Rome was once known as Saturn or Satur by Babelonians.


The name to which I refer is the name of the Latin god Consus,

who was in one aspect identified with Neptune, but who was also regarded as "the god of hidden

counsels," or "the concealer of secrets," who was looked up to as the patron of horsemanship,

and was said to have produced the horse. Who could be the "god of h idden counsels," or the

"concealer of secrets," but Saturn, the god of the "mysteries," and whose name as used at Rome,

signified "The hidden one"?
Hislop (http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks/TheTwoBabylons/index.php?page_num=40&keyword=satur)
And the word mystery reminds me to look a bit further in this subject. The Hebrew word for it is MSTUR or Mem Samech Tav Vav Resh which mean from hiding. This is is mentioned at least 22 times in the New Testament. But especially in Revelation 17 Spoke 17 concerning the woman Mystery Babylon.

Victor
07-29-2008, 12:10 PM
Hey gilgal, what an impressive post! I have always linked the "unknown god" of Acts 17 to God's hiding His face in Book 17, Esther. It is just so obvious and beautiful...

Now you add something about Saturn. Let's see.


This week I read in several places that the altar to whom the unknown god was dedicated to in Acts 17 in Athens was actually the altar of Saturn where there was no image thought of.

Correct me if I'm wrong but here are google results (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=9Vh&q=%22unknown+god%22+saturn&start=10&sa=N).

Saturn means hidden. It's an interesting word. Saturn in Hebrew Satur is spelled out Samech Tav Vav Resh. The numerical value is 60+400+6+200=666.

It's curious for me to find out that the altar dedicated to the unknown god is mentioned in the inner wheel of Acts Spoke 17.
Well, I think we first really need to double check and know for sure if there is someone out there who thinks there is good reason to believe that the "unknown god" may be Saturn. Do you have any specific information or link about it from some study source?


It is known that the book of Esther has no mentioning of God anywhere. And the name Esther is a variation of the word Satur mentioned above meaning hidden written Aleph Samech Tav Vav Resh.
Esther is linked to the S-T-R (hidden) root. It is really interesting that Saturn has the same letter sequence (plus an N that is appended to the Hebrew form of Nero which adds to 666).


Another word mentioned in Acts 17 and Esther is Mars/Mordechai. I don't know what the significance of it's mentioning is. Mars is the god of war. Mordechai is a variation of it, also Marduk or Merodach I believe was also found in Spoke 17 (Isaiah 39).
Now that's another great insight! The Areopagus of Acts 17 was also known as Mars' Hill and the name of the god of war Mars comes from the same root of Mordechai, named after Mars!


And the word mystery reminds me to look a bit further in this subject. The Hebrew word for it is MSTUR or Mem Samech Tav Vav Resh which mean from hiding. This is is mentioned at least 22 times in the New Testament. But especially in Revelation 17 Spoke 17 concerning the woman Mystery Babylon.
Great! It is really interesting that one of the words for "secret" in Hebrew is Mistar (S#4564) that comes from the same S-T-R root of Esther. And it is phonetically similar to the Greek Misterion and the English Mystery!

But there is more: misterion comes from the root muo, which means "to shut the mouth," and Mouth is the literal meaning of the letter Pey which governs Spoke 17! Therefore the last time this word appears is in Revelation 17, where Mystery Babylon is described. There's a lot to say here.

gilgal
07-29-2008, 12:58 PM
But there is more: misterion comes from the root muo, which means "to shut the mouth," and Mouth is the literal meaning of the letter Pey which governs Spoke 17! Therefore the last time this word appears is in Revelation 17, where Mystery Babylon is described. There's a lot to say here.

I'm thinking that this woman that rides on the beast is the body of mystery religions that existed throughout the centuries. It's far greater than the Roman Catholic institution. Masonry for example being one of the orders has members that vow to keep their works and initiations secret. And whoever reveals their secrets should be killed.

When we study the biblical history:

God sent plagues over Egypt. Each plague was a mockery to the gods of Egypt;
Israel was condemned for worshiping the golden calf in the wilderness;
They carried the star of Remphan with them;
and so on...

This shows that the mystery religions always existed in Israel. And God was always against them. They made alliances with the surrounding nations. Ahab the king fo Israel took Jezebel from Tyre (or Sidon?). The daughter of Ahab Athaliah was given to Jehoshaphat king of Judah. Athaliah slew all the king's seed except for one.

And when we look at this Mystery, Babylon it says:


Revelation 18
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

I began a thread specially for the book of Esther (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609).

Victor
08-09-2008, 10:19 AM
Gilgal,

The naturalistic thinking and attitude displayed on Spoke 17 that we discussed above is further linked to Acts 17. In this chapter we find a unique reference to two Greek groups of philosophers:

Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Both groups had a very low view of God. The Epicureans didn't believe the world was created by God and the Stoicks held God as a sort of "animating principle" of the universe. The unique mention of these groups in the Bible perfectly correlate with the spirit of Spoke 17: God hiding His Face, the "where is him?" attitude and all this God-denying world view.

This further manifests in the altar the Athenians built to the "Unknown God":

Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN [agnóstos] GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
The Greek for "unknown" is agnóstos, whence the word "agnostic" that designates those today that believe that if there is a God, He is "unknown of".

Do you have any reliable source that relates the "unknown God" to Saturn?

Victor

gilgal
08-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Gilgal,

The naturalistic thinking and attitude displayed on Spoke 17 that we discussed above is further linked to Acts 17. In this chapter we find a unique reference to two Greek groups of philosophers:

Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Both groups had a very low view of God. The Epicureans didn't believe the world was created by God and the Stoicks held God as a sort of "animating principle" of the universe. The unique mention of these groups in the Bible perfectly correlate with the spirit of Spoke 17: God hiding His Face, the "where is him?" attitude and all this God-denying world view.

This further manifests in the altar the Athenians built to the "Unknown God":

Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN [agnóstos] GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
The Greek for "unknown" is agnóstos, whence the word "agnostic" that designates those today that believe that if there is a God, He is "unknown of".

Do you have any reliable source that relates the "unknown God" to Saturn?

Victor

Well the one that mentioned it was Alexander Hislop:

The name to which I refer is the name of the Latin god Consus,

who was in one aspect identified with Neptune, but who was also regarded as "the god of hidden

counsels," or "the concealer of secrets," who was looked up to as the patron of horsemanship,

and was said to have produced the horse. Who could be the "god of h idden counsels," or the

"concealer of secrets," but Saturn, the god of the "mysteries," and whose name as used at Rome,

signified "The hidden one"?
Hislop
http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks/TheTwoBabylons/index.php?page_num=40&keyword=satur
I inserted a search engine for you to look into this online book, The Two Babylons.

Victor
08-19-2008, 05:35 PM
Well the one that mentioned it was Alexander Hislop:

http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks/TheTwoBabylons/index.php?page_num=40&keyword=satur
I inserted a search engine for you to look into this online book, The Two Babylons.

Hey gilgal,

There is a number of problems with that.

First of all, "The Two Babylons" is an awful book. It is full of poor scholarship, logical fallacies and stuff. I remember once reading a portion of the book linking the origin of the Trinity doctrine to Ninrod and his family.

Secondly, even it were trustworthy, it is still problematic because he provides zero evidence that Saturn means hidden (though it reminds me of the str Hebrew root).

Third, even if he did, he does in no way show how Saturn is the god to whom the altar of the unknown god was dedicated.

So we're still looking for some source that can support this claim. But all the other links we've pointed out are valid nonetheless.

gilgal
08-19-2008, 06:03 PM
Hey gilgal,

There is a number of problems with that.

First of all, "The Two Babylons" is an awful book. It is full of poor scholarship, logical fallacies and stuff. I remember once reading a portion of the book linking the origin of the Trinity doctrine to Nimrod and his family.

There is Satan's Trinity: the Father, Mother and Son. It is taught in the occult.

gilgal
08-19-2008, 06:14 PM
Secondly, even it were trustworthy, it is still problematic because he provides zero evidence that Saturn means hidden (though it reminds me of the str Hebrew root).


Saturn means hidden. It was the old name for the Roman Empire as I've read but I was looking for the documentation but found none. I think it was Babylon which called Rome Saturn.

gilgal
09-03-2008, 10:11 PM
Here are my findings on word and truth.


1 Kings 17:24
And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Esther 9:30
And he sent the letters unto all the Jews, to the hundred twenty and seven provinces of the kingdom of Ahasuerus, with words of peace and truth,

Isaiah 39:8
Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

Parallel passage:
2 Kings 20:19
Then said Hezekiah unto Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. And he said, Is it not good, if peace and truth be in my days?

Victor
09-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Here are my findings on word and truth.

1 Kings 17:24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Esther 9:30
And he sent the letters unto all the Jews, to the hundred twenty and seven provinces of the kingdom of Ahasuerus, with words of peace and truth,

Isaiah 39:8
Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

Parallel passage:
2 Kings 20:19
Then said Hezekiah unto Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. And he said, Is it not good, if peace and truth be in my days?

Add to that the following verses that transmit a similar idea:

Mal 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth [=Pey], and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
Mal 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth [=Pey]: for he is the messenger [Malach, name of the book] of the LORD of hosts.

Victor
09-04-2008, 01:41 PM
I'll use this opportunity to add something to what we had discussed above about the "where is..." defying attitude. Malachi on Spoke 17 contains the same idea:

Mal 2:17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
So we have three verses on Spoke 17 relating to the same concept:

Jeremiah 17:15
Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
2 Peter 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Malachi 2:17
Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

gilgal
09-04-2008, 06:38 PM
I'll use this opportunity to add something to what we had discussed above about the "where is..." defying attitude. Malachi on Spoke 17 contains the same idea:

Mal 2:17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
So we have three verses on Spoke 17 relating to the same concept:

Jeremiah 17:15
Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
2 Peter 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Malachi 2:17
Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?


I mentioned that in the 1st post.

Both in Esther and Isaiah 39 Kings Ahasuerus and Hezekiah showed their riches and the next thing...plots are set against them and their children (in Hezekiah's case):


Looking for:
shew
Esther 1
4 When he shewed the riches of his glorious kingdom and the honour of his excellent majesty many days, even an hundred and fourscore days.

Isaiah 39
4 Then said he, What have they seen in thine house? And Hezekiah answered, All that is in mine house have they seen: there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shewed them.


Although written elsewhere many times could there be any significance to the name:

Isaiah 39:1
At that time Merodachbaladan, the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah: for he had heard that he had been sick, and was recovered.
Esther 2:5
Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;

Victor
09-06-2008, 10:45 AM
I mentioned that in the 1st post.
I added Malachi 2:17 to the links of your 1st post. Did you notice it? Do you agree with me that the defying "Where is God?" attitude is characteristic of Spoke 17? ;)


Both in Esther and Isaiah 39 Kings Ahasuerus and Hezekiah showed their riches and the next thing...plots are set against them and their children (in Hezekiah's case):
Hey, I noticed that too! It links to the idea of "showing off" that is a hallmark of Spoke 17 as well. We see it in Vashti's attitude and in the harlot of Revelation 17. It reflects the basic meaning of Pey as "appearance" or "showing".


Although written elsewhere many times could there be any significance to the name:[quote=gilgal;8397]
I agree, specially because we've already found other link with that name: Acts 17 and Mars' Hill.

gilgal
09-10-2008, 08:38 AM
I added Malachi 2:17 to the links of your 1st post. Did you notice it? Do you agree with me that the defying "Where is God?" attitude is characteristic of Spoke 17? ;)
Yes absolutely!


Hey, I noticed that too! It links to the idea of "showing off" that is a hallmark of Spoke 17 as well. We see it in Vashti's attitude and in the harlot of Revelation 17. It reflects the basic meaning of Pey as "appearance" or "showing".

This makes me wonder...I been reading events of the 17th century. When the Scottish King James ascended to the throne of England joining Scotland and England there was the gunpowder plot of 1605 (Webster Tarpley points out that it was an inside job by Robert Cecil and not by any Catholic).
There were other plots that caused Revolutions.
(The name James by the way was the name of every Scottish monarch of the 15th Century up until James the 6th which became England's James the 1st. Check the book of James the 15th spoke!)
Is the word plot a unique word that runs through spoke 17?

Victor
09-11-2008, 11:08 AM
I been reading events of the 17th century. When the Scottish King James ascended to the throne of England joining Scotland and England there was the gunpowder plot of 1605 (Webster Tarpley points out that it was an inside job by Robert Cecil and not by any Catholic).
There were other plots that caused Revolutions.
(...)
Is the word plot a unique word that runs through spoke 17?

Like you say, that was not the only plot that took place in History. The "plot" idea doesn't seem to establish a link to Spoke 17 by itself. Perhaps if other joint themes show up there may be.

There are plots outside Spoke 17 so it is not unique. But of course the book of Esther documents one of the greatest plots to kill the Jews. Let's see if we'll find corroborative elements.

gilgal
09-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Like you say, that was not the only plot that took place in History. The "plot" idea doesn't seem to establish a link to Spoke 17 by itself. Perhaps if other joint themes show up there may be.

There are plots outside Spoke 17 so it is not unique. But of course the book of Esther documents one of the greatest plots to kill the Jews. Let's see if we'll find corroborative elements.

But the very name Esther means hidden. Wouldn't plot fit in this book since it's a conspiracy or a hidden plan. Esther and Mordecai continually revealed the hidden. First their identity was hidden. Then the two chamberlains plotted to overthrow the king. Then Haman plotted against the Jews.

There is also the issue writing the law and the deeds in Esther, Deuteronomy and Malachi. God commended in Deuteronomy that Kings should have a copy of the law next to them. Ahasuerus not being a Jew did a similar thing by writing events as diary...especially including Mordecai's warning of the chamberlains. BY rereading that deed and realizing that no honor was given to Mordecai he decided to honor him by taking advice from Haman!!!

As for the 1611 King James bible, wasn't that the official bible used in churches throughout England and English speaking colonies?

But I think it was during his sons reign that there was a revolution and Oliver Cromwell became England's dictator in 1640. Then there was the glorious revolution of 1688. I need to brush up my history.

I don't recall which date but the Jews had been kicked out of England. But the Dutch Jews funded the revolution and came back.

Victor
09-11-2008, 12:08 PM
But the very name Esther means hidden. Wouldn't plot fit in this book since it's a conspiracy or a hidden plan. Esther and Mordecai continually revealed the hidden. First their identity was hidden. Then the two chamberlains plotted to overthrow the king. Then Haman plotted against the Jews.

There is also the issue writing the law and the deeds in Esther, Deuteronomy and Malachi. God commended in Deuteronomy that Kings should have a copy of the law next to them. Ahasuerus not being a Jew did a similar thing by writing events as diary...especially including Mordecai's warning of the chamberlains. BY rereading that deed and realizing that no honor was given to Mordecai he decided to honor him by taking advice from Haman!!!

As for the 1611 King James bible, wasn't that the official bible used in churches throughout England and English speaking colonies?

But I think it was during his sons reign that there was a revolution and Oliver Cromwell became England's dictator in 1640. Then there was the glorious revolution of 1688. I need to brush up my history.

I don't recall which date but the Jews had been kicked out of England. But the Dutch Jews funded the revolution and came back.

Wow man! I have to think about that!

gilgal
09-11-2008, 12:36 PM
Wow man! I have to think about that!
The Synagogue of Satan (http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks/thesynagogueofsatan/index.php?page_num=9)

1649: Oliver Cromwell obtains backing from the

British parliament for the execution of King Charles I

on a charge of treason. Afterwards, Cromwell permits

the Jews to enter England again, but does not reverse

the Edict of Expulsion issued by King Edward I in

1290, which expelled all Jews forever from England

and made the provision that any who remained after

November 1st 1290, were to be executed.

Indeed England is not the first country to expel the

Jews. Here is a partial list of all the areas from which

the Jews have been banished from, sometimes on

numerous occasions, over the last thousand years.

Mainz, 1012 France,

1182 Upper Bavaria,

1276 England, 1290

France, 1306 France,

1322 Saxony, 1349

Hungary, 1360

Belgium, 1370

Slovakia, 1380

France, 1394 Austria,

1420 Lyons, 1420

Cologne, 1424

Mainz, 1438

Augsburg, 1438

Upper Bavaria, 1442

Netherlands, 1444

Lithuania, 1495

Portugal, 1496

Naples, 1496

Navarre, 1498

Nuremberg, 1498

Brandenburg, 1510

Prussia, 1510

Genoa, 1515

Naples, 1533 Italy,

1540 Naples, 1541

Prague, 1541

Genoa, 1550

Bavaria, 1551

Prague, 1557 Papal

States, 1569

Hungary, 1582

Hamburg, 1649

1
Another 17th century link (perhaps) to Esther is that Jews hide their ethnic identity. Shabbatai Tzvi (http://www.google.ca/search?q=shabbatai+tzvi&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) declared himself to be the messiah in the Ottoman Empire in around 1666. The Sultan feared because he gained too much. The Sultan threatened him to convert to Islam or be executed. So he converted to Islam, a Doemeh. But within the Turkish government at least at the turn of the 1900th century there were many Doenmehs like Talat Pasha, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Enver.

gilgal
09-11-2008, 12:41 PM
The Synagogue of Satan (http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks/thesynagogueofsatan/index.php?page_num=11)
William III of Orange

1688: A. N. Field, in his book, "All These Things,"

published in 1931, explains the situation in England this

year, as a result of Cromwell’s decision to ignore the

law banning the Jews from entering England, and

allowing them back in defiance of the law, only 33

years earlier, as follows,

"Thirty-three years after Cromwell had let the

Jews into Britain a Dutch Prince arrived from

Amsterdam surrounded by a whole swarm of

Jews from that Jewish financial centre. Driving

his royal father-in-law out of the kingdom, he

graciously consented to ascend the throne of

Britain. A very natural result following on this

event was the inauguration of the National

Debt by the establishment six years later of the

Bank of England for the purpose of lending

money to

gilgal
10-11-2008, 12:09 PM
The story of the Assyrian king sending a priest to teach the gentiles placed in northern Israel fell in the right place, in chapter 17 just as it was in the 17th chapter of Deuteronomy which mentioned that priests should teach the people the book of the law.


Looking for:
command + turn + law + priest + teach,,taught + land
Deuteronomy 17
1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and inquire; and they shall show thee the sentence of judgment:
10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall show thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall show thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.
14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.



Looking for:
command + turn + law + priest + teach,,taught + land
2 Kings 17
1 In the twelfth year of Ahaz king of Judah began Hoshea the son of Elah to reign in Samaria over Israel nine years.
2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, but not as the kings of Israel that were before him.
3 Against him came up Shalmaneser king of Assyria; and Hoshea became his servant, and gave him presents.
4 And the king of Assyria found conspiracy in Hoshea: for he had sent messengers to So king of Egypt, and brought no present to the king of Assyria, as he had done year by year: therefore the king of Assyria shut him up, and bound him in prison.
5 Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.
6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
7 For so it was, that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods,
8 And walked in the statutes of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel, and of the kings of Israel, which they had made.
9 And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city.
10 And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree:
11 And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger:
12 For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing.
13 Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.
14 Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.
15 And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them.
16 And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
19 Also Judah kept not the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the statutes of Israel which they made.
20 And the LORD rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.
21 For he rent Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king: and Jeroboam drave Israel from following the LORD, and made them sin a great sin.
22 For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them;
23 Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.
25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.
26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.
27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.
28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.
29 Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.
30 And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima,
31 And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.
32 So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.
33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.
34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;
35 With whom the LORD had made a covenant, and charged them, saying, Ye shall not fear other gods, nor bow yourselves to them, nor serve them, nor sacrifice to them:
36 But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.
37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.
38 And the covenant that I have made with you ye shall not forget; neither shall ye fear other gods.
39 But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies.
40 Howbeit they did not hearken, but they did after their former manner.
41 So these nations feared the LORD, and served their graven images, both their children, and their children's children: as did their fathers, so do they unto this day.

Victor
10-11-2008, 12:31 PM
Once again the ideas on Spoke 17 of the Inner Cycles link to Malachi:

Mal 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
Mal 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

gilgal
10-11-2008, 12:49 PM
Once again the ideas on Spoke 17 of the Inner Cycles link to Malachi:

Mal 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
Mal 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.



Yeah Malachi and Deuteronomy 17 are very close.
I was just looking at Deut. 17 and Psalm 17 and found the word sentence and wonder if that's a keyword?



Looking for:
sentence
Deuteronomy 17
1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and inquire; and they shall show thee the sentence of judgment:
10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall show thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall show thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.
14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.



Looking for:
sentence
Psalms 17
1 Hear the right, O LORD, attend unto my cry, give ear unto my prayer, that goeth not out of feigned lips.
2 Let my sentence come forth from thy presence; let thine eyes behold the things that are equal.
3 Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast visited me in the night; thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing; I am purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.
4 Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer.
5 Hold up my goings in thy paths, that my footsteps slip not.
6 I have called upon thee, for thou wilt hear me, O God: incline thine ear unto me, and hear my speech.
7 Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them.
8 Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,
9 From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about.
10 They are inclosed in their own fat: with their mouth they speak proudly.
11 They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth;
12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places.
13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
14 From men which are thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.
15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

gilgal
10-26-2008, 08:15 PM
But the very name Esther means hidden. Wouldn't plot fit in this book since it's a conspiracy or a hidden plan. Esther and Mordecai continually revealed the hidden. First their identity was hidden. Then the two chamberlains plotted to overthrow the king. Then Haman plotted against the Jews.

There is also the issue writing the law and the deeds in Esther, Deuteronomy and Malachi. God commended in Deuteronomy that Kings should have a copy of the law next to them. Ahasuerus not being a Jew did a similar thing by writing events as diary...especially including Mordecai's warning of the chamberlains. BY rereading that deed and realizing that no honor was given to Mordecai he decided to honor him by taking advice from Haman!!!

As for the 1611 King James bible, wasn't that the official bible used in churches throughout England and English speaking colonies?

But I think it was during his sons reign that there was a revolution and Oliver Cromwell became England's dictator in 1640. Then there was the glorious revolution of 1688. I need to brush up my history.

I don't recall which date but the Jews had been kicked out of England. But the Dutch Jews funded the revolution and came back.
History of the Jews in the Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Netherlands

Marranos and Sephardic Jews

The Sephardim (so-called Spanish Jews) had been expelled from Spain and Portugal years earlier, but many remained in the Iberian peninsula, practising Judaism in secret (see crypto-Jews or Marranos). The newly independent Dutch provinces provided an ideal opportunity for the crypto-Jews to re-establish themselves and practise their religion openly, and they migrated, most notably to Amsterdam. Collectively, they brought trading influence to the city as they established in Amsterdam.

In 1593 these Marranos arrived in Amsterdam after having been refused admission to Middelburg and Haarlem. These Jews were important merchants and persons of great ability. They labored assiduously in the cause of the people and contributed materially to the prosperity of the country. They became strenuous supporters of the house of Orange and were in return protected by the stadholder. At this time the commerce of Holland was increasing; a period of development had arrived, particularly for Amsterdam, to which Jews had carried their goods and from which they maintained their relations with foreign lands. Thus they had connections with the Levant and with Morocco. The Emperor of Morocco had an ambassador at The Hague named Samuel Pallache (1591-1626), through whose mediation, in 1620, a commercial understanding was arrived at with the Barbary States.

In particular, the relations between the Dutch and South America were established by Jews; they contributed to the establishment of the Dutch West Indies Company in 1621, of the directorate of which some of them were members. The ambitious schemes of the Dutch for the conquest of Brazil were carried into effect through Francisco Ribiero, a Portuguese captain, who is said to have had Jewish relations in Holland. As some years afterward the Dutch in Brazil appealed to Holland for craftsmen of all kinds, many Jews went to Brazil; about 600 Jews left Amsterdam in 1642, accompanied by two distinguished scholars - Isaac Aboab da Fonseca and Moses Raphael de Aguilar. In the struggle between Holland and Portugal for the possession of Brazil the Dutch were supported by the Jews.

With various countries in Europe also the Jews of Amsterdam established commercial relations. In a letter dated November 25, 1622, King Christian IV of Denmark invites Jews of Amsterdam to settle in Glückstadt, where, among other privileges, the free exercise of their religion would be assured to them.