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gilgal
06-13-2007, 06:56 PM
One thing going through my mind at the moment is the book of Jonah:

Check these links for now because it's going ot take a while to highlight the words in the forum tools:

Looking for the word of the lord came unto jonah/arise, go/to nineveh that great city and rose/of the lord to Nineveh, that great city
Jonah 1
1Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
2Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
3But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.
4But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
5Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
6So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
7And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
8Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
9And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
10Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him. Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
11Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
13Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
14Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.
15So they look up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
16Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows.
17Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.


Looking for the word of the lord came unto jonah/arise, go/to nineveh that great city and rose/of the lord to Nineveh, that great city
Jonah 3
1And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
4And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

So the first and third chapters share phrases. And so do chapters 2 and 4:

Looking for prayed unto the lord
Jonah 2
1Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
2And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
7When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
10And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

Looking for prayed unto the lord
Jonah 4
1But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
3Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.
4Then said the LORD, Doest thou well to be angry?
5So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
6And the LORD God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
7But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.
8And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
9And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
10Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more then sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
When you read chapters 1 and 3 you'll notice that the phrase occur on the same verses. Chapter 1:1-3 and chapter 3:1-3

But two and four are 1 verse apart. Why? Because the King James has Jonah 2:1 as Jonah 1:17. Putting this into consideration the words fall on the same verses.

Richard Amiel McGough
06-14-2007, 09:47 AM
One thing going through my mind at the moment is the book of Jonah:

Check these links for now because it's going ot take a while to highlight the words in the forum tools:
http://n.1asphost.com/wheelofgod/showverse.asp?Book=32&Chapter=1&Verse=all&Keyword=the%20word%20of%20the%20lord%20came%20unto %20jonah/arise%2C%20go/to%20nineveh%20that%20great%20city%20and&Keywordb=rose/of%20the%20lord&Keywordc=to%20Nineveh%2C%20that%20great%20city&Keywordd=&Keyworde=&Keywordf=

http://n.1asphost.com/wheelofgod/showverse.asp?Book=32&Chapter=3&Verse=all&Keyword=the%20word%20of%20the%20lord%20came%20unto %20jonah/arise%2C%20go/to%20nineveh%20that%20great%20city%20and&Keywordb=rose/of%20the%20lord&Keywordc=to%20Nineveh%2C%20that%20great%20city&Keywordd=&Keyworde=&Keywordf=
So the first and third chapters share phrases. And so do chapters 2 and 4:
http://n.1asphost.com/wheelofgod/showverse.asp?Book=32&Chapter=2&Verse=all&Keyword=prayed%20unto%20the%20lord&Keywordb=&Keywordc=&Keywordd=&Keyworde=&Keywordf=

http://n.1asphost.com/wheelofgod/showverse.asp?Book=32&Chapter=4&Verse=all&Keyword=prayed%20unto%20the%20lord&Keywordb=&Keywordc=&Keywordd=&Keyworde=&Keywordf=
When you read chapters 1 and 3 you'll notice that the phrase occur on the same verses. Chapter 1:1-3 and chapter 3:1-3

But two and four are 1 verse apart. Why? Because the King James has Jonah 2:1 as Jonah 1:17. Putting this into consideration the words fall on the same verses.
Hi Gilgal,

I think smaller bites with some explanations of what we are supposed to be seeing would help. I clicked on the links, but I didn't understand what you were trying to share.

Thanks!

Richard

gilgal
06-15-2007, 11:17 AM
Ok I fixed it. It should be clear. Compare Chapter 1 with 3 and then 2 with 4. The words in common are structured to appear in the same verses. Except for 2 :1 and 4:2 because the King James takes the 1st verse of 2:1 and gives it to chapter 1.

Richard Amiel McGough
06-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Ok I fixed it. It should be clear. Compare Chapter 1 with 3 and then 2 with 4. The words in common are structured to appear in the same verses. Except for 2 :1 and 4:2 because the King James takes the 1st verse of 2:1 and gives it to chapter 1.
Oh - I get it. You are looking at Jonah like an interwoven tapestry, correct? A common thread runs through Chapters 1 & 3, and another thread through Chapters 2 & 4.

I think that kind of insight is very important. I am always delighted when we find symmetry in the Bible. Many scholarly papers have been written on patterns like that, but usually they are attributed to nothing but human artifice. That's why modern scholars stumble over the Bible Wheel, they can't study it because the patterns can not be attributed to mere humans, and the idea that God actually had anything to do with the Bible is anathema to the modern mind and mocked (if not completely ignored) in most seminaries.

Your pattern reminds me of the alternating occurrence of "Nineveh" in the Minor Prophets. I discuss this in the Spoke 12 article Assyria, the Rod of God's Anger (http://www.biblewheel.com/Forum/../Wheel/Spokes/Lamed_Assyria.asp):

http://www.biblewheel.com/Forum/../Wheel/Spokes/NinevehWeaving.gif


The challenge now is to learn to present your ideas in a more compact form. It is difficult to discern the pattern when too much text is displayed. I'll give it some thought and let you know if I have any good ideas.

Thanks for your contribution gilgal!

Richard

gilgal
07-27-2007, 08:12 PM
That's right.

gilgal
11-15-2011, 04:23 PM
This new forum is amazing. Now you can display tables which is very useful.

Since this new forum allows tables I wanted to redisplay the book of Jonah. As I inserted the verses I got some new insights as well:



Looking for the word of the lord came unto jonah/arise, go, rose/of the lord, to Nineveh, that great city, and went/to




Jonah 1

Jonah 3





1Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,

Amittai: h573 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H573&t=KJV)
אמתי 'Amittay = my truth an Aleph word, relating to the verse number


saying is an Aleph word: h559 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H559&t=KJV)
אמר 'amar , relating to the verse number


1And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,

saying is an Aleph word: h559 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H559&t=KJV)
אמר 'amar , relating to the verse number





2Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

Nineveh/great city appears in the Bible for the first time in Genesis 10:

Genesis 10
11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same [is] a great city.

Jonah is the 10th prophetic book from Isaiah and is the 32nd book overall thus Spoke 10 (102).



2Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Nineveh/great city appears in the Bible for the first time in Genesis 10:

Genesis 10
11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same [is] a great city.

Jonah is the 10th prophetic book from Isaiah and is the 32nd book overall thus Spoke 10 (102).






3But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

rose/arose h6965 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6965&t=KJV)
קום quwm is related to the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the 3rd day; note the number of the verse is 3


Tarshish appears in the Bible for the first time in Genesis 10:

Genesis 10
4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.



3So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

rose/arose h6965 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6965&t=KJV)
קום quwm is related to the resurrection of Jesus Christ on the 3rd day; note the number of the verse is 3





4But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea [ h3220 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3220&t=KJV)
ים yam ], and there was a mighty tempest in the sea [ h3220 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3220&t=KJV)
ים yam ], so that the ship was like to be broken.

Now here's an observation.

Compare day, sea and the number 40 with Jonah 3.

First of all the number 40 appears in verse 4 related to the 4th book Numbers and Matthew and Luke 4.

Also the letter Mayim has a Gematria/Numerical value of 40. The letter also means from the sea. Also the word for day is Yom which is a Vav inserted in between the letters Yam (sea).



4And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's [ h3117 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3117&t=KJV)
יום yowm ] journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty [ h705 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H705&t=KJV)
ארבעים 'arba`iym ] days [ h3117 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3117&t=KJV)
יום yowm ], and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Now here's an observation.

Compare day, sea and the number 40 with Jonah 1.

First of all the number 40 appears in verse 4 related to the 4th book Numbers and Matthew and Luke 4.

Also the letter Mayim has a Gematria/Numerical value of 40. The letter also means from the sea. Also the word for day is Yom which is a Vav inserted in between the letters Yam (sea).






5Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.


5So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.





6So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.


6For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.





7And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.


7And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:





8Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?


8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.





9And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.


9Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?





10Then were the men exceedingly afraid [ h3374 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3374&t=KJV)
יראה yir'ah ], and said unto him. Why hast thou done this? For the men knew [ h3045 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3045&t=KJV)
ידע yada` ] that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.


10And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.





11Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.







12And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.


cast: h2904 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2904&t=KJV)
טול tuwl
see:
http://www.biblewheel.com/InnerWheels/John/John12.asp








13Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.







14Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.







15So they look up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.







16Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows.







So the first and third chapters share phrases. And so do chapters 2 and 4:



Looking for prayed unto the lord, Nineveh, that great city




Jonah 2


Jonah 4




1:17Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.


The Masoretic Text
shows 1:17 as 2:1

1But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.





1Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,

2And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.



Verse 2 relates to the 2nd book Exodus
Exodus 34
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

Also the 2nd chapter of Romans
Romans 2
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?






2And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

3Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.




3For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.

4Then said the LORD, Doest thou well to be angry?





4Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

5So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.





5The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.

6And the LORD God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.




6I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

7But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.




7When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.

8And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.




8They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

9And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.




9But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

10Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:




10And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

11And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more then sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?




When you read chapters 1 and 3 you'll notice that the phrase occur on the same verses. Chapter 1:1-3 and chapter 3:1-3

But two and four are 1 verse apart. Why? Because the King James has Jonah 2:1 as Jonah 1:17. Putting this into consideration the words fall on the same verses.

More on Jonah:
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1087

gilgal
11-24-2011, 02:59 PM
I was hoping Iwould find something on Amittai other than the name of Jonah's father and found none:
http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Strongs=573&Lang=H

Amittai means my truth right?

Richard Amiel McGough
11-24-2011, 03:04 PM
I was hoping Iwould find something on Amittai other than the name of Jonah's father and found none:
http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Strongs=573&Lang=H

Amittai means my truth right?
Yep, that's what it means.

gilgal
11-24-2011, 03:04 PM
Jonah on the other hand has:
http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Strongs=3124&Lang=H

It means dove:
http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Strongs=3123&Lang=H

The reason I'm searching these is that usually the BibleWheel shows a name or the meaning of the name within the same spoke and sometimes the same context/chapter as well. But this one doesn't.

Unless the focus of Spoke 10 is that it's the yod at the end of Amittai which indicates possession mine.
Jonah is a yod word.

gilgal
11-29-2011, 06:34 PM
2 Samuel 11:27 KJV - And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the LORD.
Jonah 4:1 KJV - But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.

Dislease h3415 ירע yara` a yod word

gilgal
06-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Comparing Jonah the 10 prophetic book with Noah the 10th from Adam:
both included 40 days - day in Hebrew is Yom a Yod word, the 10th letter;
both involved water;
both involved "man and beast".

Nineveh is considered to be named after or built by someone by the name of Ninus. According to the Wikipedia it's not a real person. Maybe a deity, or someone which had another name. But it does sound almost similar to Noah although it is said to be Nimrod.

Some of the verses in the beginning of the chapters are almost similar with a small variation which seems poetic in nature.

The Masoretic text renders Jonah 1:17 (King James and LXX) to be 2:1 which harmonizes with 4:1.

Richard Amiel McGough
06-07-2012, 01:01 PM
Comparing Jonah the 10 prophetic book with Noah the 10th from Adam:
both included 40 days - day in Hebrew is Yom a Yod word, the 10th letter;
both involved water;
both involved "man and beast".

Nineveh is considered to be named after or built by someone by the name of Ninus. According to the Wikipedia it's not a real person. Maybe a deity, or someone which had another name. But it does sound almost similar to Noah although it is said to be Nimrod.

Some of the verses in the beginning of the chapters are almost similar with a small variation which seems poetic in nature.

The Masoretic text renders Jonah 1:17 (King James and LXX) to be 2:1 which harmonizes with 4:1.
That's pretty interesting gilgal.

Both Noah and Jonah were given precise dates for the destruction that was to come.

Both stories involve a boat.

Jonah's name means "dove." This word first appears when Noah released a dove from the ark.

I have a feeling there is probably a lot of connections between the two stories.

gilgal
06-07-2012, 04:09 PM
I'm praying that God would open hearts and minds of readers to understand these things.

Patterns:
When Moses lifted up his arms Joshua won the battle and when he put down his arms they began to lose. Of course when Aaron and Hur noticed this pattern they made Moses sit down and held his arms up and they won the battle over the Amalekites.

In the same manner when we find patterns both in our lives and scripture it gives us knowledge/experience and we are more prudent next time the pattern repeats.

Jonah 1:1-3 and Jonah 4:1-3 have the actual words of the Word of the LORD in verse 2. Verse 3 mentions arose a characteristic of the Holy Ghost. Jesus was raised by the Holy Ghost.

Jonah 3:4 shows 40 days and city which are associated with the number 4 such as Matthew 4 and Luke 4's 40 days. Also the 4th book Numbers mentions 40 days/years.

gilgal
06-08-2012, 09:02 AM
(KJV) Jonah 1:4 But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.

(KJV) Jonah 4:8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, [It is] better for me to die than to live.

Wind usually comes up in spoke 4. Ezekiel and John the 4th Gospel are examples.

-------------

Also spoke 2:
(KJV) Jonah 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, [was] not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou [art] a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

(KJV) Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

(KJV) Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

(KJV) Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

gilgal
09-23-2017, 02:33 AM
Here are some results comparing Jonah the 10th book of the 2nd cycle of the Biblewheel with Genesis 10, looking at the common Strong's Concordance numbers:


Genesis 10

4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish,
Kittim, and Dodanim.

5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in
their lands; every one after his tongue, after
their families, in their nations.

9 He was a mighty hunter before the
LORD:
wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty
hunter before the
LORD.

11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and
builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and
Calah,

12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the
same is a great city.

19 And the border of the Canaanites was from
Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as
thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and
Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.

20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families,
after their tongues, in their countries, and in their
nations.

21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children
of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to
him were children born.

30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou
goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
Jonah 1

2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry
against it; for their wickedness is come up before
me.

3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from
the presence of the
LORD, and went down to
Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so
he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to
go with them unto Tarshish from the presence
of the
LORD.

4 But the
LORD sent out a great wind into the
sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea,
so that the ship was like to be broken.

8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee,
for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine
occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy
country? and of what people art thou?

10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and
said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the
men knew that he fled from the presence of the
LORD, because he had told them.

16 Then the men feared the
LORD exceedingly,
and offered a sacrifice unto the
LORD, and made
vows.

17 Now the
LORD had prepared a great fish to
swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of
the fish three days and three nights.


Genesis 10

8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a
mighty one in the earth.

9 He was a mighty hunter before the
LORD:
wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty
hunter before the
LORD.

11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded
Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,

12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the
same is a great city.

19 And the border of the Canaanites was from
Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as
thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and
Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.

21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children
of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to
him were children born.

25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name
of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth
divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou
goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.

Jonah 3

1 And the word of the
LORD came unto Jonah the
second time, saying,

2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and
preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh,
according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh
was an exceeding great city of three days'
journey.

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's
journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days,
and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and
proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the
greatest of them even to the least of them.

6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and
he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe
from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and
sat in ashes.

7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and
published through Nineveh by the decree of the
king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor
beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them
not feed, nor drink water:


Genesis 10

4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish,
Kittim, and Dodanim.

9 He was a mighty hunter before the
LORD:
wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty
hunter before the
LORD.

11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and
builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and
Calah,

12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the
same is a great city.

14 And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom
came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.

21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children
of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to
him were children born.

25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name
of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth
divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou
goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
Jonah 4

1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he
was very angry.

2 And he prayed unto the
LORD, and said, I pray
thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I
was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before
unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious
God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great
kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

3 Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee,
my life from me; for it is better for me to die than
to live.

4 Then said the
LORD, Doest thou well to be
angry?

5 So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the
east side of the city, and there made him a booth,
and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see
what would become of the city.

6 And the
LORD God prepared a gourd, and made
it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a
shadow over his head, to deliver him from his
grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.

11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great
city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand
persons that cannot discern between their right
hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Richard Amiel McGough
09-23-2017, 06:31 PM
Hey there Greg,

It's been a long time since we chatted. It is good to hear from you again.

So what is that collection of highlighted words supposed to mean? It doesn't show any meaningful pattern as far as I can tell. Let's start with your first highlighted word "Tarshish." It shows no connection with Spoke 10 on the Bible Wheel or the Inner Cycles. Here is a list of all occurrences:



Genesis 10:4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
1 Chronicles 1:7 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
2 Chronicles 9:21 For the king's ships went to Tarshish with the servants of Huram: every three years once came the ships of Tarshish bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.
2 Chronicles 20:36 And he joined himself with him to make ships to go to Tarshish: and they made the ships in Eziongeber.
2 Chronicles 20:37 Then Eliezer the son of Dodavah of Mareshah prophesied against Jehoshaphat, saying, Because thou hast joined thyself with Ahaziah, the LORD hath broken thy works. And the ships were broken, that they were not able to go to Tarshish.
Esther 1:14 And the next unto him was Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven princes of Persia and Media, which saw the king's face, and which sat the first in the kingdom;)
Psalm 48:7 Thou breakest the ships of Tarshish with an east wind.
Psalm 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Isaiah 2:16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
Isaiah 23:1 The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of Tarshish; for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them.
Isaiah 23:6 Pass ye over to Tarshish; howl, ye inhabitants of the isle.
Isaiah 23:10 Pass through thy land as a river, O daughter of Tarshish: there is no more strength.
Isaiah 23:14 Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste.
Isaiah 60:9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
Jeremiah 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.
Ezekiel 27:12 Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kind of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.
Ezekiel 27:25 The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.
Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
Jonah 1:3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.
Jonah 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

Now lets analyze this data. There are 21 verses containing 24 hits. Most of the hits are on Spoke 1 (1 in Genesis, 7 in Isaiah). You could amplify this "connection" by using "Inner Cycles" and noting that Tarshish also appears in Chapter 1 of 1 Chronicles, Esther, and Jonah. This way, you could make 11 connections in the data. But that's not the connection you chose. You wanted to connect it with the number 10, in which case you have a total of only four connections, namely, 1 from the Inner Cycle of Genesis 10, 2 from Jonah on Spoke 10, and 1 from the Inner Cycle of Jeremiah 10. I don't see that as impressive at all.

My point is that you seem to be finding meaningless "connections" in random data. I would be very surprised if this were not the primary criticism your work receives. How do you answer it?

Great chatting,

Richard

gilgal
09-25-2017, 10:46 PM
Hi Richard! It's great to hear from you. Instead of looking for the English words to find things in common I decided to search by Strong's numbers. I'll give you Genesis 10 links of Strong's numbers in common with Jonah 1-4:

Genesis 10 and Jonah 1:

H1121 (son, sons or children mentioned 17 times),
H1419 (great mentioned 9 times),
H3068 (LORD mentioned 14 times),
H3117 (mentioned 2 times),
H376 (mentioned 4 times),
H5210 (mentioned 3 times),
H559 (mentioned 10 times),
H5892 (city mentioned 3 times),
H6440 (mentioned 6 times),
H776 (mentioned 9 times),
H8659 (mentioned 4 times),
H935 (come, bring mentioned 6 times),

Genesis 10 and Jonah 2:

H2022 (mount, mountains mentioned 2 times),
H3068 (LORD mentioned 8 times),
H559 (mentioned 4 times),
H776 (earth, land mentioned 9 times),
H935 (mentioned 4 times),

Genesis 10 and Jonah 3:

H1419 (great mentioned 6 times),
H2490 (mentioned 2 times),
H259 (mentioned 2 times),
H3068 (LORD mentioned 4 times),
H3117 (mentioned 4 times),
H376 (mentioned 2 times),
H5210 (mentioned 9 times),
H559 (mentioned 5 times),
H5892 (city mentioned 5 times),
H935 (come, bring mentioned 4 times),

Genesis 10 and Jonah 4:

H1121 (son, sons or children mentioned 17 times),
H1419 (great mentioned 5 times),
H3068 (LORD mentioned 8 times),
H3318 (mentioned 3 times),
H5210 (mentioned 3 times),
H559 (mentioned 7 times),
H5892 (city mentioned 6 times),
H6924 (mentioned 2 times),
H8147 (mentioned 2 times),
H8659 (mentioned 2 times),

My aim is to find a group of words or phrases in common. So Genesis 10 and Jonah have the following names off the top of my head: Tharshish and Nineveh (also called that great city mentioned in Jonah 1, 3 and 4).

The flow of the story is interesting. Before looking into the statistics it's good to understand the story. This got my interest in rereading Jonah:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/wordplay-in-jonah.html

Jonah goes down to Joppa (Joppa or Japho = "beautiful") then takes the boat and goes down to sleep. But God told him to go up to Nineveh. Tharshish (Tarshish or Tharshish = "yellow jasper") is the place where both Jehoshaphat and Jonah failed to reach.

Richard Amiel McGough
09-26-2017, 07:15 AM
Hi Richard! It's great to hear from you. Instead of looking for the English words to find things in common I decided to search by Strong's numbers. I'll give you Genesis 10 links of Strong's numbers in common with Jonah 1-4:

Genesis 10 and Jonah 1:

H1121 (son, sons or children mentioned 17 times),
H1419 (great mentioned 9 times),
H3068 (LORD mentioned 14 times),
H3117 (mentioned 2 times),
H376 (mentioned 4 times),
H5210 (mentioned 3 times),
H559 (mentioned 10 times),
H5892 (city mentioned 3 times),
H6440 (mentioned 6 times),
H776 (mentioned 9 times),
H8659 (mentioned 4 times),
H935 (come, bring mentioned 6 times),

<snip>

My aim is to find a group of words or phrases in common. So Genesis 10 and Jonah have the following names off the top of my head: Tharshish and Nineveh (also called that great city mentioned in Jonah 1, 3 and 4).

The flow of the story is interesting. Before looking into the statistics it's good to understand the story. This got my interest in rereading Jonah:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/wordplay-in-jonah.html

Jonah goes down to Joppa (Joppa or Japho = "beautiful") then takes the boat and goes down to sleep. But God told him to go up to Nineveh. Tharshish (Tarshish or Tharshish = "yellow jasper") is the place where both Jehoshaphat and Jonah failed to reach.
Hey there Greg,

Good to be chatting again. I completely understand what you are trying to do, since I did the same thing for a long time. The "themes" are easy to grasp, but its very difficult to tell if they are are just coincidences are or not, since we could find similar connections between many things that are not aligned on the Wheel. When I believed in the Bible Wheel one of my big dreams was to write software to objectively analyze of the semantic content of each book of the Bible and then show mathematically that the strongest correlations would exist when the books were in their proper order on the Wheel. This would have been strong evidence of my thesis and would avoid the charge of cherry picking which is essentially what you are doing (and what I had done over many years). That's why I gave the example of the statistics of Tarshish - it coheres more strongly with Spoke 1 than Spoke 10.

The analysis seems like a job for AI, which is now becoming possible for the average programmer. Years ago I did an analysis of of 500,000 cross-references in The Treasuring of Scriptural Knowledge hoping it would give evidence of the Isaiah-Bible Correlation, but it failed, despite the fact that there are many striking correlations between chapters of Isaiah and corresponding books of the Bible. I now see that those "connections" are often very subjective, or common even between chapters that are not aligned. This played a big role in debunking myself because I compared my Isaiah-Bible Correlation with one produced by other believers who used a different order of books and who concluded that their order was the "true order" because of the connections they found. I explained this in two articles on my blog:

The Isaiah-Bible Coincidence Debunked (https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/2014/11/02/the-isaiah-bible-coincidence-debunked/)

The Bible Wheel: Patternicity on Steroids (https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/2014/10/12/patternicity/)

In those articles, I show how people who used different orders of the books came up with patterns that they thought were designed by God. This is the root error of cherry picking. Anyone can do it with anything. It proves nothing.

Great chatting!

Richard

gilgal
09-26-2017, 10:19 AM
Hey there Greg,

Good to be chatting again. I completely understand what you are trying to do, since I did the same thing for a long time. The "themes" are easy to grasp, but its very difficult to tell if they are are just coincidences are or not, since we could find similar connections between many things that are not aligned on the Wheel. When I believed in the Bible Wheel one of my big dreams was to write software to objectively analyze of the semantic content of each book of the Bible and then show mathematically that the strongest correlations would exist when the books were in their proper order on the Wheel. This would have been strong evidence of my thesis and would avoid the charge of cherry picking which is essentially what you are doing (and what I had done over many years). That's why I gave the example of the statistics of Tarshish - it coheres more strongly with Spoke 1 than Spoke 10.

The analysis seems like a job for AI, which is now becoming possible for the average programmer. Years ago I did an analysis of of 500,000 cross-references in The Treasuring of Scriptural Knowledge hoping it would give evidence of the Isaiah-Bible Correlation, but it failed, despite the fact that there are many striking correlations between chapters of Isaiah and corresponding books of the Bible. I now see that those "connections" are often very subjective, or common even between chapters that are not aligned. This played a big role in debunking myself because I compared my Isaiah-Bible Correlation with one produced by other believers who used a different order of books and who concluded that their order was the "true order" because of the connections they found. I explained this in two articles on my blog:

The Isaiah-Bible Coincidence Debunked (https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/2014/11/02/the-isaiah-bible-coincidence-debunked/)

The Bible Wheel: Patternicity on Steroids (https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/2014/10/12/patternicity/)

In those articles, I show how people who used different orders of the books came up with patterns that they thought were designed by God. This is the root error of cherry picking. Anyone can do it with anything. It proves nothing.

Great chatting!

Richard

Well what's difficult with Genesis 10 is that there are many names which have to be defined to draw more connections. One thing that came through my mind is that maybe not everything is linked to Jonah. However there might be some links to other books or chapters related to Spoke 10. For example Javan's meaning is that first, they are the Ionians, and second it comes from the word Yayin, meaning wine. Noah, being the 10th from Adam got drunk and Leviticus 10 mentioned that the 2 sons of Aaron were killed because they got drunk with wine and then entered in the holy place.

I was looking into Numbers 18, Deuteronomy 18, Joshua 18 which mention the inheritance of the priests and Levites. And God said that they had none because God is their portion. And when I was reading the 18th year of King Josiah (2Chronicles 34) the High Priest's name was Hilkiah, which I believe was the father of Jeremiah. Hilkiah means Yah's portion. Matthew on the 18th Spoke, was a Levite who was a tax-collector but left his job to follow Jesus.

Any opinion on that?

Richard Amiel McGough
09-26-2017, 10:35 AM
Well what's difficult with Genesis 10 is that there are many names which have to be defined to draw more connections. One thing that came through my mind is that maybe not everything is linked to Jonah. However there might be some links to other books or chapters related to Spoke 10. For example Javan's meaning is that first, they are the Ionians, and second it comes from the word Yayin, meaning wine. Noah, being the 10th from Adam got drunk and Leviticus 10 mentioned that the 2 sons of Aaron were killed because they got drunk with wine and then entered in the holy place.

I was looking into Numbers 18, Deuteronomy 18, Joshua 18 which mention the inheritance of the priests and Levites. And God said that they had none because God is their portion. And when I was reading the 18th year of King Josiah (2Chronicles 34) the High Priest's name was Hilkiah, which I believe was the father of Jeremiah. Hilkiah means Yah's portion. Matthew on the 18th Spoke, was a Levite who was a tax-collector but left his job to follow Jesus.

Any opinion on that?
My opinion on that is the same as my opinion on all your cherry picking. As long as you have no way to discern between chance and design, there's no reason to think that the tiny set of examples you found are proof of any design. It doesn't matter how many "connections" you find because for every connection you find, there are usually ten or a hundred or even a thousand that don't follow the pattern of the Bible Wheel.

This is the criticism you need to answer if you want any one to take your work seriously.

Great chatting!

Richard

davidjayjordan
09-26-2017, 10:41 AM
The Bible Wheel or Code is bogus... Yes, but design is proofable and mathematical, via physics, chemistry, biology and all true science. Design is scientific, evolution and atheism of luck and chance is bogus as hell...... and insane denial at best.

davidjayjordan@yahoo.com

So Richard, do you consider yourself a Christian now, or were you one before.

Was your Christianity dependant on whether or not your previous Bible Wheel theory of numbers worked, Or was your departure based on your Bible Wheel not working.

Richard Amiel McGough
09-26-2017, 10:50 AM
So Richard, do you consider yourself a Christian now, or were you one before.

No, I am not a Christian now. But I was in the past.

Are you a Christian? How do you know if someone is or is not?



Was your Christianity dependant on whether or not your previous Bible Wheel theory of numbers worked, Or was your departure based on your Bible Wheel not working.
As I explained in my previous answer, I quit Christianity because I concluded it was not true. This happened three years BEFORE I debunked the Bible Wheel. Indeed, it is the only reason I was able to debunk it because when I was a believer I would make up excuses for the obvious errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God found in the Bible. It took three years of rational skepticism for me to get the clarity of mind to debunk the Bible Wheel. For years after quitting Christianity I thought the Bible Wheel was the best evidence for the faith, and I know many people who still think it is.

As for you work, I have debunked a lot of it and you were never able to refute a word I wrote. Remember? Unfortunately, a lot of our interactions were lost when the site crashed.

gilgal
09-26-2017, 08:57 PM
No, I am not a Christian now. But I was in the past.

Are you a Christian? How do you know if someone is or is not?


As I explained in my previous answer, I quit Christianity because I concluded it was not true. This happened three years BEFORE I debunked the Bible Wheel. Indeed, it is the only reason I was able to debunk it because when I was a believer I would make up excuses for the obvious errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God found in the Bible. It took three years of rational skepticism for me to get the clarity of mind to debunk the Bible Wheel. For years after quitting Christianity I thought the Bible Wheel was the best evidence for the faith, and I know many people who still think it is.

As for you work, I have debunked a lot of it and you were never able to refute a word I wrote. Remember? Unfortunately, a lot of our interactions were lost when the site crashed.

So because you stopped making sense of the Biblewheel you stopped being a Christian? Are you putting God to the challenge?

Most Church goers don't even read their bibles. Or they may be new in the faith. But still not grounded.

[Ezekiel 18:25 KJV]
Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

[Ezekiel 18:29 KJV]
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Yes equal! They make mathematical sense.

Richard Amiel McGough
09-27-2017, 07:09 AM
As I explained in my previous answer, I quit Christianity because I concluded it was not true. This happened three years BEFORE I debunked the Bible Wheel. Indeed, it is the only reason I was able to debunk it because when I was a believer I would make up excuses for the obvious errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God found in the Bible. It took three years of rational skepticism for me to get the clarity of mind to debunk the Bible Wheel. For years after quitting Christianity I thought the Bible Wheel was the best evidence for the faith, and I know many people who still think it is.

So because you stopped making sense of the Biblewheel you stopped being a Christian? Are you putting God to the challenge?

No, you have it exactly backwards. As explained TWICE in this thread, I quit Christianity because I did not believe it is true, even though the Bible Wheel still "made sense" at that time. I still thought it was the best evidence for the Bible as the Word of God. I continued looking for an explanation of how the patterns could have happened without God for three years until finally I was able to objectively review my best evidence and found that it did not hold up.

Why do I need to repeat this so many times? Strange.



Most Church goers don't even read their bibles. Or they may be new in the faith. But still not grounded.

That's true. Most Christians are more like club members who "believe" what they are told. But most don't even know what they "believe" - they just say they do because they are told they must.



[Ezekiel 18:25 KJV]
Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

[Ezekiel 18:29 KJV]
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Yes equal! They make mathematical sense.
What makes mathematical sense? Surely not the statics of your "connections" since they don't confirm any patterns.

So what exactly is the "mathematical" stuff you are talking about?

gilgal
09-27-2017, 08:33 AM
Why can't I post new threads?

I wanted to post 1Samuel 1 and 1Samuel 9 in a new thread but it doesn't allow.

But my point in those passages is that, sure words like "the son of" is mentioned all throughout the Scriptures. But the way that 1Samuel 1 and 1Samuel 9 are mentioned makes those two passages linked and unique.

davidjayjordan
09-27-2017, 08:42 AM
That's true. Most Christians are more like club members who "believe" what they are told. But most don't even know what they "believe" - they just say they do because they are told they must.


What makes mathematical sense? Surely not the statics of your "connections" since they don't confirm any patterns.

So what exactly is the "mathematical" stuff you are talking about?

True Richard, most Christians are just churchies, its a social group and most of them are mindless and faithless. Most of them, follow what they are told to think and how they are told to act. They are controlled and dumb sheep, even if some of them are outright wolves.

The basis of Christianity is not church people, or churchies actions, or their favortism for war and torture, and politics, and materialism... the basis for Christianity is CHRIST. Its not a mental ascent, even though mentally you can absolutely prove design and the validity of Jesus direct words, but still you have to take that final step in knowing the author.

Richard, you didn;t take that step, which is by your choice. No problem because its all by choice, and personal responsibility..

As for the Bible wheel and code, NO, these true Christians or church people (The Lord knows) are trying to show something that is not there, and think they will get credit from the Lord or their peers for coming up with a mumbled jumbled code they find that validates, verse numbers and words and values that proves the inerrancy of the Lord.

NO, the proof is doing what the Lord stated we are to do. You prove HIM by doing ewhat He said. Follow HIM< 100 percent, give all, and go into the ends of the world til the day you die... You learn by becoming a full time missionary, not by sitting at home and just theorizing and crunching numbers.

FME

David

gilgal
09-27-2017, 10:09 AM
True Richard, most Christians are just churchies, its a social group and most of them are mindless and faithless. Most of them, follow what they are told to think and how they are told to act. They are controlled and dumb sheep, even if some of them are outright wolves.

The basis of Christianity is not church people, or churchies actions, or their favortism for war and torture, and politics, and materialism... the basis for Christianity is CHRIST. Its not a mental ascent, even though mentally you can absolutely prove design and the validity of Jesus direct words, but still you have to take that final step in knowing the author.

Richard, you didn;t take that step, which is by your choice. No problem because its all by choice, and personal responsibility..

As for the Bible wheel and code, NO, these true Christians or church people (The Lord knows) are trying to show something that is not there, and think they will get credit from the Lord or their peers for coming up with a mumbled jumbled code they find that validates, verse numbers and words and values that proves the inerrancy of the Lord.

NO, the proof is doing what the Lord stated we are to do. You prove HIM by doing ewhat He said. Follow HIM< 100 percent, give all, and go into the ends of the world til the day you die... You learn by becoming a full time missionary, not by sitting at home and just theorizing and crunching numbers.

FME

David

The patterns show how scriptures interpret scriptures. Not everything is written in one place. For example you can't understand Revelation by itself. If you read Revelation you will need to read or reread the rest of the scriptures. The numerical patterns help us understand how everything fits.

I would think, for example that Galatians, the 4th epistle is a wilderness experience for the church just as Numbers the 4th book was for the children of Israel. Paul did mention that he went to mount Sinai in that epistle:
[Galatians 1:17 KJV]
Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

[Galatians 4:25 KJV]
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

It's not mumbo jumbo. Numbers and Galatians are well read together, like hand and glove.

Ishmael wandered in the wilderness but Isaac received the promise's blessing. The children of Israel in their lack of faith was left wandering in the wilderness until that generation died.

Richard Amiel McGough
09-27-2017, 10:24 AM
Why can't I post new threads?

I wanted to post 1Samuel 1 and 1Samuel 9 in a new thread but it doesn't allow.

But my point in those passages is that, sure words like "the son of" is mentioned all throughout the Scriptures. But the way that 1Samuel 1 and 1Samuel 9 are mentioned makes those two passages linked and unique.
You should be able to post new threads. What is the exact error message?

Richard Amiel McGough
09-27-2017, 10:56 AM
... but still you have to take that final step in knowing the author.

Richard, you didn;t take that step, which is by your choice. No problem because its all by choice, and personal responsibility..

How do you know what steps I took as a believer? I most certainly believed I was utterly, totally, and absolutely devoted to God when I was a believer.

It is very common for believers to say that people who don't agree with them or leave the faith were never really Christian, but that's totally meaningless because no one has any way to know who is or is not a Christian because faith is totally subjective.

gilgal
09-28-2017, 03:39 AM
You should be able to post new threads. What is the exact error message?

The New Thread button wasn't on. I see it now but at some point it said "You may not post new threads".

gilgal
09-28-2017, 03:47 AM
How do you know what steps I took as a believer? I most certainly believed I was utterly, totally, and absolutely devoted to God when I was a believer.

It is very common for believers to say that people who don't agree with them or leave the faith were never really Christian, but that's totally meaningless because no one has any way to know who is or is not a Christian because faith is totally subjective.

We know God by reading the Scriptures and then we are known of him:
[1 Corinthians 8:3 KJV]
But if any man love God, the same is known of him.


I believe that people do backslide. When they sin they should repent. God chastises them like he did David, even though he forgave him. When God lost his first son from Bathsheba he didn't cry as much, and neither did he when he lost Amnon, but he cried when he lost Absalom, despite their victory.

Jeroboam, although the prophet said that God will give him authority, he turned away from God. The same with Solomon, and Saul.

Richard Amiel McGough
09-28-2017, 07:07 AM
The New Thread button wasn't on. I see it now but at some point it said "You may not post new threads".
That's curious. Maybe there was a temporary problem with the login. Glad it works now.

gilgal
09-28-2017, 11:26 AM
That's curious. Maybe there was a temporary problem with the login. Glad it works now.

Before, when I logged in it showed that I hadn't logged in.

Richard Amiel McGough
09-28-2017, 12:02 PM
Before, when I logged in it showed that I hadn't logged in.
Yeah, there was a strange problem with that. I made a few changes to the setup that seems to have fixed it. Let me know if it happens again.

gilgal
09-30-2017, 11:07 PM
Yeah, there was a strange problem with that. I made a few changes to the setup that seems to have fixed it. Let me know if it happens again.

Ok sure.

lahunahau
10-01-2017, 10:16 AM
Hi !! Wonder whats the sing of Jona ?? I find curious that in greek jonah adds 1061=8 , but in hebrew it also adds 8 (71) , now the first versicle has 3 word adding 8 , being this : dabar (206=8) YHVH(26=8) and Jonah 71 (8) .... of course there are many curious words adding 8 , Tora (611=8) Jesua, Emanuel.... curious is that famous greek 888 (Jesus)

gilgal
10-02-2017, 12:49 PM
Hi !! Wonder whats the sing of Jona ?? I find curious that in greek jonah adds 1061=8 , but in hebrew it also adds 8 (71) , now the first versicle has 3 word adding 8 , being this : dabar (206=8) YHVH(26=8) and Jonah 71 (8) .... of course there are many curious words adding 8 , Tora (611=8) Jesua, Emanuel.... curious is that famous greek 888 (Jesus)

I don't know. I haven't gone to that extent. The mathematical wonders are endless. I've had the impression that God's intention of the Biblewheel pattern is to reveal or explain scripture from scripture.

gilgal
10-02-2017, 01:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP3ew-9DneU