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duxrow
03-30-2013, 07:06 AM
:huhsign:
The word 'Easter' is found ONLY in Acts12:4 -- it's the word 'pascha' (passover) in the Greek, and thought by some to refer to a goddess Ishtar. But a great time of year IMO. amen?

Doncha know how many happy children have chased down those eggs, oblivious to how baby rabbits don't come from eggs, no matter how brightly colored.. :winking0071:

duxrow
04-18-2014, 07:54 AM
:huhsign:
The word 'Easter' is found ONLY in Acts12:4 -- it's the word 'pascha' (passover) in the Greek, and thought by some to refer to a goddess Ishtar. But a great time of year IMO. amen?

Doncha know how many happy children have chased down those eggs, oblivious to how baby rabbits don't come from eggs, no matter how brightly colored.. :winking0071:
Bummer Friday! Days of week not named in Scripture, though we usually accept the Jewish Sabbath beginning Friday at sunset.. The practice of 'Good Friday' coming from the wrong notion about Jesus being crucified on that day -- I'd propose calling it "Ugh Friday" if that were really the case.. :winking0071:

sylvius
04-18-2014, 12:11 PM
:huhsign:
The word 'Easter' is found ONLY in Acts12:4 -- it's the word 'pascha' (passover) in the Greek, and thought by some to refer to a goddess Ishtar. But a great time of year IMO. amen?

Doncha know how many happy children have chased down those eggs, oblivious to how baby rabbits don't come from eggs, no matter how brightly colored.. :winking0071:
Greek:

ὃν καὶ πιάσας ἔθετο εἰς φυλακήν, παραδοὺς τέσσαρσιν τετραδίοις στρατιωτῶν φυλάσσειν αὐτόν, βουλόμενος μετὰ τὸ πάσχα ἀναγαγεῖν αὐτὸν τῷ λαῷ.

""Easter" only in KJV:


http://biblehub.com/acts/12-4.htm

sylvius
04-18-2014, 12:20 PM
Bummer Friday! Days of week not named in Scripture, though we usually accept the Jewish Sabbath beginning Friday at sunset.. The practice of 'Good Friday' coming from the wrong notion about Jesus being crucified on that day -- I'd propose calling it "Ugh Friday" if that were really the case.. :winking0071:


Mark 15:43-43,

42When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.…


Mark 16:1-3,

1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. 2Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3They were saying to one another, "Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?"…


Leaves no doubt that he was crucified on a Friday.

Friday being the sixht day, Hebrew "yom hashishi" --also "day of the linen cloth"

Mark 16:46,

46Joseph bought a linen cloth, took Him down, wrapped Him in the linen cloth and laid Him in a tomb which had been hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a stone on the door of the tomb.


""Who will roll away the stone?" --Dux certainly not :winking0071:

duxrow
04-18-2014, 01:54 PM
Greek: ὃν καὶ πιάσας ἔθετο εἰς φυλακήν, παραδοὺς τέσσαρσιν τετραδίοις στρατιωτῶν φυλάσσειν αὐτόν, βουλόμενος μετὰ τὸ πάσχα ἀναγαγεῖν αὐτὸν τῷ λαῷ.

""Easter" only in KJV:

http://biblehub.com/acts/12-4.htm Right on, Sylvie -- other version use "Passover" which would be a 3-day error because of the 3d3n in the belly of the whale.. :p

So WHICH Shabbat are you speaking of ? the High or the Low? Because the 72 hrs in the tomb needs a full explanation.. right? :huhsign:
1124

David M
04-18-2014, 02:40 PM
Right on, Sylvie -- other version use "Passover" which would be a 3-day error because of the 3d3n in the belly of the whale.. :p

So WHICH Shabbat are you speaking of ? the High or the Low? Because the 72 hrs in the tomb needs a full explanation.. right? :huhsign:
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Hello Dux
I agree with the chart except for the Resurrection did not take place on the first day of the week. The diagram is slightly misleading. The resurrection had to take place on the Sabbath before the Sabbath ended. It was afternoon, or late afternoon (evening) when Jesus was buried and so 72 hours has to make the resurrection at the same time of day as his burial. The diagram does not indicate that.

All the best
David

duxrow
04-18-2014, 03:13 PM
First day of week? hah, 'cause that says Monday to me, whereas I believe He Rose on Sunday! :thumb:

I would agree about your 72.0001 exactness, but IAW my take about Solomon having 690-710 wives, (but only one son!), am willing to give our Holy Ghostwriter a little slack.-- maybe mybad for inserting the 72 into the 3d3n.. :dizzy:

sylvius
04-19-2014, 10:33 AM
Jesus was laid in the grave exactly at the beginning of the seventh day.

During the seventh day he is absent.

The seventh day in fact is the historical time we live in.

In the account of the seventh day, Genesis 2:1-3, there is no mentioning of "and it was evening and it was morning", which means it is the present world of time and space.

The eighth day is of another order. It is the new all-encompassing "day one" = the day of light (in which there is no darkness).

sylvius
04-19-2014, 11:39 PM
Jesus was laid in the grave exactly at the beginning of the seventh day.

During the seventh day he is absent.

The seventh day in fact is the historical time we live in.

In the account of the seventh day, Genesis 2:1-3, there is no mentioning of "and it was evening and it was morning", which means it is the present world of time and space.

The eighth day is of another order. It is the new all-encompassing "day one" = the day of light (in which there is no darkness).

So although he is absent, he is not really absent, but present in the here and now, the reality that goes quicker than the eye.

duxrow
04-20-2014, 08:57 AM
Help anyone? The 10th Day of 7th month was a sabbath, and if I knew the 10th day of the 1st month was also a sabbath, it would confirm the 17th a sabbath also (like in my diagram), but no luck so far.
Hal Lindsey says the 14th was a Thursday, but that just doesn't fit, IMO.:thumb:
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Charisma
04-20-2014, 10:03 AM
Hi dux,

I wouldn't be too hung up on days of the week. I mean, the new moon doesn't rise on the same 'day' every month, which is how their calendar was timed.

Furthermore, Abib, the month in which passover took place, was timed according to the grain being ready for the sacrifice, so that's another place where there can be slippage down the centuries, when trying to determine just exactly what 'date' any event happened.

From my passing studies into these things, that's why the events themselves happening to fall on the same date as a previous event on that date, carries huge significance. An example would be the Ark coming to rest on the same date as Passover began to be held.

You might find some new light on this page. (http://http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/equinoctial-torah-calendar.html)

Blessings. :)

duxrow
04-20-2014, 10:25 AM
Tks Charisma -- the link didn't work, but am familiar with their calendar.. Mostly hoping for others to see how "Good Friday" a farce that belies the 72 hrs, much like their Luke Genealogy is the Priest Line of Mary's husband.

IMO it wouldn't be 'good' anyway, except in the sense of delivering believers from their sins by that sacrifice. Think 'Great' or 'principal' would be a better adjective, maybe? :sEm_blush8:

David M
04-20-2014, 11:56 AM
Hi dux,

You might find some new light on this page. (http://http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/equinoctial-torah-calendar.html)

Blessings. :)


Tks Charisma -- the link didn't work, but am familiar with their calendar.. Mostly hoping for others to see how "Good Friday" a farce that belies the 72 hrs, much like their Luke Genealogy is the Priest Line of Mary's husband.

IMO it wouldn't be 'good' anyway, except in the sense of delivering believers from their sins by that sacrifice. Think 'Great' or 'principal' would be a better adjective, maybe? :sEm_blush8:

I found the link it is here; http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/equinoctial-torah-calendar.html

According to Michael Rood Jesus was crucified on 14th day of the Aviv 28 C.E. or 4028 F.C. This agrees with the calendar shown on the webpage making the death of Jesus on the day equivalent to our Wednesday. That means Jesus would have been in the grave three days and three nights to rise just before the end of the weekly Sabbath, so that Mary comes on the first day of the week (Sunday).

I know that for a long time, and I suppose I still do, I regarded the start of our week as the Monday corresponding to the start of the working-week.

duxrow
04-20-2014, 12:29 PM
OK, Charisma, I'll bite.. WHY would anyone want to connect the Passover to the landing of the Ark?
and, David, got that link, but not following why those calendars don't give special emphasis to the 14th day of the first month.. Will have to go back again.. :eek:

Richard Amiel McGough
04-20-2014, 12:32 PM
Hello Dux
I agree with the chart except for the Resurrection did not take place on the first day of the week. The diagram is slightly misleading. The resurrection had to take place on the Sabbath before the Sabbath ended. It was afternoon, or late afternoon (evening) when Jesus was buried and so 72 hours has to make the resurrection at the same time of day as his burial. The diagram does not indicate that.

All the best
David
The Bible doesn't say anything about "72 hours." The Bible uses the units of "nights" and "days" which do not specify the exact number of hours, minutes, and seconds. To interpret "three days and three nights" as implying exactly 72 hours would be just as foolish as saying it implies exactly 259,200 seconds (the number of seconds in 72 hours). The language is simply not specific enough to justify such an assertion.

For example, suppose I said the store was one mile from my house. Does that mean it is exactly 5,280 feet? Of course not. If I wanted to communicate that degree of exactitude I would have used the appropriate units. The same goes for the Bible. If the author wanted to imply the exact number of hours, he could have said so.

Timmy
04-20-2014, 01:16 PM
ok, so it doesn't say exactly 72 hours, however three days and three nights--even as Yonah was in the fish belly--remains three days and three nights.).

Using the book of John as correlary of this account can be a bit deceptive, as he is using both Hebrew and Roman measurements of time regarding different aspects (accordingly)...we do know there were two Shabbats that week...one being a high holy day.

The women came to the once sealed tomb of Nikodimon early in the day, and the primitive church tradition was to meet after Shabbat sundown (Saturday night- "early on the first day of the week) in commemoration of this being the time of them finsing out He was already arisen...proving He is LORD of Shabbat...continuing to do good 'the Father has shown Him.'

Richard Amiel McGough
04-20-2014, 01:45 PM
ok, so it doesn't say exactly 72 hours, however three days and three nights--even as Yonah was in the fish belly--remains three days and three nights.).

Using the book of John as correlary of this account can be a bit deceptive, as he is using both Hebrew and Roman measurements of time regarding different aspects (accordingly)...we do know there were two Shabbats that week...one being a high holy day.

The women came to the once sealed tomb of Nikodimon early in the day, and the primitive church tradition was to meet after Shabbat sundown (Saturday night- "early on the first day of the week) in commemoration of this being the time of them finsing out He was already arisen...proving He is LORD of Shabbat...continuing to do good 'the Father has shown Him.'
Hey there Timmy, :yo:

Yes, "three days and three nights" is what it is ... too bad it does not cohere with the rest of the story. It is simply impossible to write a coherent account of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ using every detail reported in the four Gospels and Paul's writings. This is known as Dan Barker's "Easter Challenge" (and since it is Easter, it's appropriate that we are talking about it). I presented the challenge here on the forum in this post: Dan Barker's Resurrection Challenge (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?1852-Dan-Barker-s-Resurrection-Challenge). I have never seen anything approaching a rational solution presented by any Christian anywhere. Have you?

Also, your assertion that "early on the first day of the week" means "Saturday night" makes no sense at all. Mark explicitly states it was early in the morning, "at the rising of the sun."

Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

sylvius
04-20-2014, 02:05 PM
The three days and three nights Jonah did spend in the belly of the fish correspond to the extent of Ninevé, viz. a three days journey ( a walk of three days).

Timmy
04-20-2014, 02:16 PM
Hey there Timmy, :yo:

Yes, "three days and three nights" is what it is ... too bad it does not cohere with the rest of the story. It is simply impossible to write a coherent account of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ using every detail reported in the four Gospels and Paul's writings. This is known as Dan Barker's "Easter Challenge" (and since it is Easter, it's appropriate that we are talking about it). I presented the challenge here on the forum in this post: Dan Barker's Resurrection Challenge (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?1852-Dan-Barker-s-Resurrection-Challenge). I have never seen anything approaching a rational solution presented by any Christian anywhere. Have you? NOPE


Also, your assertion that "early on the first day of the week" means "Saturday night" makes no sense at all. Mark explicitly states it was early in the morning, "at the rising of the sun."

Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Maybe i did not put that clear enough, and maybe i said it garbled and kornfusingly...yeah, it was wrong alright, yur right again..because of mixing the fact that Jesus arose after dusk just before Shabbat's end (thus the first traditioned time to meet weekly after Shabbat--...yes, the women saw in the morning...my bad.

I'm going to give that challenge a shot...and try to understand what the deal is...a PT novelty, but will report here to check what others might have to say.

Howz dat?

Timmy
04-20-2014, 02:18 PM
The three days and three nights Jonah did spend in the belly of the fish correspond to the extent of Ninevé, viz. a three days journey ( a walk of three days).

Got it!

Thanks

David M
04-20-2014, 02:24 PM
Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Mary, who ran back to fetch Peter appears to have arrived before the other women. John writes (John 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

duxrow
04-20-2014, 02:38 PM
The three days and three nights Jonah did spend in the belly of the fish correspond to the extent of Ninevé, viz. a three days journey ( a walk of three days).
Right on, Sylvie.. Love the many 'walks' in Scripture, like Enoch walked and Noah walked and Isaiah did it barefoot, and climaxed by Jesus walking on water! Probably not holy water tho--you think?
When they walked to Nineveh, did they walk at night? :Date_Setting:

Charisma
04-20-2014, 02:48 PM
Hi dux,


Tks Charisma -- the link didn't work, but am familiar with their calendar.. Mostly hoping for others to see how "Good Friday" a farce that belies the 72 hrs, much like their Luke Genealogy is the Priest Line of Mary's husband.

IMO it wouldn't be 'good' anyway, except in the sense of delivering believers from their sins by that sacrifice. Think 'Great' or 'principal' would be a better adjective, maybe?

I was not consciously offering you bait.

Not sure who you mean by 'their' as in 'calendar'?

Regarding the Ark, and Passover, are you asking because you would like me to explain it so everyone can see, or, you really don't see the connection?

duxrow
04-20-2014, 03:10 PM
Hi dux, I was not consciously offering you bait.

Not sure who you mean by 'their' as in 'calendar'?

Regarding the Ark, and Passover, are you asking because you would like me to explain it so everyone can see, or, you really don't see the connection?
Lunar calendar, Charisma, and YES I really don't see the connection between Passover and landing of the Ark.. something figurative, is it?

Richard Amiel McGough
04-20-2014, 03:20 PM
Mary, who ran back to fetch Peter appears to have arrived before the other women. John writes (John 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Right, John says it was "yet dark" and Mark says it was "very early in the morning ... at the rising of the sun." It was not "Saturday night."

Richard Amiel McGough
04-20-2014, 03:26 PM
Hey there Timmy, :yo:

Yes, "three days and three nights" is what it is ... too bad it does not cohere with the rest of the story. It is simply impossible to write a coherent account of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ using every detail reported in the four Gospels and Paul's writings. This is known as Dan Barker's "Easter Challenge" (and since it is Easter, it's appropriate that we are talking about it). I presented the challenge here on the forum in this post: Dan Barker's Resurrection Challenge (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?1852-Dan-Barker-s-Resurrection-Challenge). I have never seen anything approaching a rational solution presented by any Christian anywhere. Have you?
NOPE

Roger that. :thumb:

So how could anyone believe the story is true if it's not even self-consistent?





Also, your assertion that "early on the first day of the week" means "Saturday night" makes no sense at all. Mark explicitly states it was early in the morning, "at the rising of the sun."

Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Maybe i did not put that clear enough, and maybe i said it garbled and kornfusingly...yeah, it was wrong alright, yur right again..because of mixing the fact that Jesus arose after dusk just before Shabbat's end (thus the first traditioned time to meet weekly after Shabbat--...yes, the women saw in the morning...my bad.

That's what I love about you Timmy. You shamelessly admit when you are wrong. It's almost like you hold to the radical atheist position that truth actually matters. :winking0071:



I'm going to give that challenge a shot...and try to understand what the deal is...a PT novelty, but will report here to check what others might have to say.

Howz dat?
That would be great! I look forward to reviewing it with you.

David M
04-20-2014, 03:56 PM
Right, John says it was "yet dark" and Mark says it was "very early in the morning ... at the rising of the sun." It was not "Saturday night."

It could have been the 10th or 11th hour of the night when Mary M. came to the tomb first. Jesus would have risen before the first day of the week begun. What happens in those night hours we do not know. The guards would have known the time the stone was rolled away, but that is not reported in the story. We note the guards had to be bribed to tell a lie that was impoosible for the disciples to do.

Richard Amiel McGough
04-20-2014, 04:31 PM
It could have been the 10th or 11th hour of the night when Mary M. came to the tomb first. Jesus would have risen before the first day of the week begun. What happens in those night hours we do not know. The guards would have known the time the stone was rolled away, but that is not reported in the story. We note the guards had to be bribed to tell a lie that was impoosible for the disciples to do.
What time does the "10th or 11th hour of the night" correspond to? Are you talking about 10 PM? Or some early time like 3 AM?

Richard Amiel McGough
04-20-2014, 04:39 PM
It could have been the 10th or 11th hour of the night when Mary M. came to the tomb first. Jesus would have risen before the first day of the week begun. What happens in those night hours we do not know. The guards would have known the time the stone was rolled away, but that is not reported in the story. We note the guards had to be bribed to tell a lie that was impoosible for the disciples to do.

What makes you think that Mary M (alone) came to the tomb first? You suggested this last year when you tried to answer Barker's challenge, and I explained (in post #2 (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3360-Resurrection-to-Ascension-A-Unified-Timeline&p=49360#post49360)) why it wouldn't work and you agreed that you had made an error. This is why you need to try to write a coherent narrative - the errors and contradictions are very obvious when you do it that way.

sylvius
04-21-2014, 12:19 AM
Right on, Sylvie.. Love the many 'walks' in Scripture, like Enoch walked and Noah walked and Isaiah did it barefoot, and climaxed by Jesus walking on water! Probably not holy water tho--you think?
When they walked to Nineveh, did they walk at night? :Date_Setting:

"A three days journey" also in Exodus 5:3, And they said, "The God of the Hebrews has happened upon us. Now let us go on a three day journey in the desert and sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest He strike us with a plague or with the sword."

And in Exodus 15:22,

Moses led Israel away from the Red Sea, and they went out into the desert of Shur; they walked for three days in the desert and did not find water.

sylvius
04-21-2014, 01:34 AM
they walked for three days in the desert and did not find water.

Since water can be seen as a symbol of time you might think here of a kind of deadline.

After three days they arrived at the end of time.

A same notion might underly the three days of NT.

Exodus 15:25, So he cried out to the Lord, and the Lord instructed him concerning a piece of wood, which he cast into the water, and the water became sweet.

Piece of wood = "ets" --= tree. It is said to be the tree of life.

David M
04-21-2014, 02:26 AM
Since water can be seen as a symbol of time you might think here of a kind of deadline.

After three days they arrived at the end of time.

A same notion might underly the three days of NT.

Exodus 15:25, So he cried out to the Lord, and the Lord instructed him concerning a piece of wood, which he cast into the water, and the water became sweet.

Piece of wood = "ets" --= tree. It is said to be the tree of life.

That is what they told Pharaoh, they only wanted to go into the Wilderness; a three-day journey. (Exodus 3:18) and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.

As for water; (Eccl 11:1) Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.
Is "many" one more than "three"?

sylvius
04-21-2014, 02:49 AM
That is what they told Pharaoh, they only wanted to go into the Wilderness; a three-day journey. (Exodus 3:18) and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.

As for water; (Eccl 11:1) Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.
Is "many" one more than "three"?


Someone told me once that if you go sit in a watchtower in the desert, that you can see a caravan coming three days before its arrival by a dust-cloud on the horizon.

So if you sit in the middle of the week, on a wednesday, you can look three days into the past, till sunday, and three days into the future, till saturday, i.e. you can look over the whole week.

sylvius
04-21-2014, 03:28 AM
Someone told me once that if you go sit in a watchtower in the desert, that you can see a caravan coming three days before its arrival by a dust-cloud on the horizon.

So if you sit in the middle of the week, on a wednesday, you can look three days into the past, till sunday, and three days into the future, till saturday, i.e. you can look over the whole week.


Which might be expressed in Genesis 15:5,

And He took him outside, and He said, "Please look heavenward and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So will be your seed."

Rashi:


He took him out of the terrestrial sphere and lifted him above the stars. This explains the expression of הַבָּטָה, looking down from above (Gen. Rabbah 44:12).


Wednesday is the fourth day, the day God made sun, moon and stars.
German "Mittwoch" = middle of the week.

duxrow
04-21-2014, 04:51 AM
Dan9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.. "

When the 7th day is Day of Rest (like Sunday), then 1st day must be Monday, eh? So Wednesday is surrounded by day 1,2, ahead.. and thur/fri other side. Wed in the middle!

But there's another way :winking0071: to look at it..
1142

sylvius
04-21-2014, 09:54 AM
Dan9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.. "

When the 7th day is Day of Rest (like Sunday), then 1st day must be Monday, eh? So Wednesday is surrounded by day 1,2, ahead.. and thur/fri other side. Wed in the middle!

But there's another way :winking0071: to look at it..
1142

The day of rest is the seventh day.

Sunday coincides the first day of the week, Monday the second day, Tuesday the third.


Daniel 9:27 doesn't speak of the middle of the week, but of half the week, which is 3,5 days, coniciding the time, times and a half ( = 3,5 times), of Daniel12:7, picked up by the writer of Revelation as 3,5 years = 1260 days = 42 months.