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Richard Amiel McGough
03-01-2013, 02:59 PM
This is an extremely enlightening series. I just listened to the sixth episode:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deqPVE5KmtM&list=UUuff10A6JeheV__mso67QdA&index=3

I'm posting this episode today because it reveals the psychology of how people protect themselves and their delusions from reality. This is quite relevant because we have two threads right now where we can see these psychological factors, such as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, in action. I'm talking about this thread (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3612-Dissproving-Bible-versions-of-Christians) where the King James Bible is being presented as the one and only "true" Bible and this thread (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3610-An-interesting-website-of-gematria-and-such) where random number patterns are taken as proof of the divine inspiration of the Torah.

I would like to know what Christians think about the video. Does it teach legitimate methods to avoid delusion? Should everyone follow the advice in the video?

If everyone followed the advice in the video, is there any religion that would stand? Or do all religions fall together? Are they all delusional?

Funky1096
03-01-2013, 03:17 PM
I did not enjoy listening to this video.
Not only was it very conviction challenging but it also reveals you turning into a hypocrite after having very little to continue attacking me with.

I find it very useful for my personal life listening and comparing outside sources against the Bible especially when those sources themselves use the Bible. Unless what the Bible said is in true contradiction against said outside source.
For example did you know the Bible says rabbits chew cud?
Leviticus 11:6 KJV
"And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. "

Thousand or two years ago Christians would be laughed at by "unbeleivers" who "knew" rabbits don't have cud.

Check a rabbit care book 20 or so years ago it says through their shit away.
Now a days books say keep it the first time since they reconsume it for nutritious noodles.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-01-2013, 03:42 PM
I did not enjoy listening to this video.
Not only was it very conviction challenging but it also reveals you turning into a hypocrite after having very little to continue attacking me with.

I thought the video was great and full of insight into how folks delude themselves. I loved it. We're all in the same boat. We must pursue truth, not delusion.

What did I say that makes you think I'm "turning into a hypocrite"?

Funky1096
03-01-2013, 03:51 PM
"What did I say that makes you think I'm "turning into a hypocrite"?"

The attitude your taking towards the Bible verses I posted in that thread.

Yes saying "KJV is the only version you can use" is unbiblical but using every other version that I'm aware of is also unbiblical.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-01-2013, 04:02 PM
"What did I say that makes you think I'm "turning into a hypocrite"?"

The attitude your taking towards the Bible verses I posted in that thread.

Yes saying "KJV is the only version you can use" is unbiblical but using every other version that I'm aware of is also unbiblical.
But why do you say it is "hypocritical"? I'm not holding you to standards different from my own or pretending to be something I'm not (that's the definition of hypocrite).

I'm being perfectly honest and straightforward, telling you what I really believe. Where's the hypocrisy in that?

Funky1096
03-01-2013, 07:37 PM
Let me rephrase all of that.
You apperently are so carnal that you can't tell faith from knowing.
You also seem to lack spiritual discernment when I show you Bible verses proving there is only one version that could possible be the Bible and you attack, reject, and emotionally drive me away from the Bible. That ain't Christian and I have yet to see any real spirits in this board in terms of belief.

Luke 6:42 KJV
"Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. "
Me getting that mote out with the 2 kings and 2 chronicles verses. You not getting over what a version is as defined by the Bible and still with beam in your own eye.

Timmy
03-01-2013, 07:50 PM
This is an extremely enlightening series. I just listened to the sixth episode:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deqPVE5KmtM&list=UUuff10A6JeheV__mso67QdA&index=3

I would like to know what Christians think about the video. Does it teach legitimate methods to avoid delusion? Should everyone follow the advice in the video?

If everyone followed the advice in the video, is there any religion that would stand? Or do all religions fall together? Are they all delusional?
:icon_hello: Ohyeah, Richard.

Tonight i has a big bwight wed koowaid smy-yi-l.

Sewiouswy?

WEDNECKZ WOCK!!!

No serioisly, i think we need to look up the definition of religion, and i am pretty sure you are familiar with "Magick w/o Tears"...no?

"...religere vs negligense....hunh?


Ok, how about my own defn.?
Science, government, psychology, demonations, etc=any institution(alisation) that has adherants espousing ideas that are thought to be laws, adherants ofnwhich live by those ideas to the exclusion or persecution ((cognitive)dissonance) against anything that contradicts these belie ed "laws" adhered to.

How's that?

You ready for a bit of conceptual badminton freund?

Here's the volley:

The video sucks and is infantile in it's rudimentary misconceptions of what really happens at the subliminal level.

Ok, so the shuttlecock was just smashed line-drive like to go over the net, but nearly straight up in the air...

So i will propose something relative to the first brilliant comment before you have opportunity to return volley:

I do not think most people have a spinal chord that comes close to even touching their brain...and what does the wife's sig line say? Never trust what?


I'm ready for whatever xomes baxk at me...

or not

[hint: there is a majorly huge missing element that should be considered inn relation to cognitive bias and dissonance that the video fails to address,--and this in itself BTW--is the very thing this video maker is doing as an example of this missing element]

All in all, the video is kind of correct with this primer. Are there other vids relative before this one, or does this author miss it all together?


Timmy

Richard Amiel McGough
03-01-2013, 08:09 PM
Let me rephrase all of that.
You apperently are so carnal that you can't tell faith from knowing.

Apparently, you are so naive that you think that anything you happen to believe is true.

So Islam is true because Muslims believe it by faith?



You also seem to lack spiritual discernment when I show you Bible verses proving there is only one version that could possible be the Bible and you attack, reject, and emotionally drive me away from the Bible. That ain't Christian and I have yet to see any real spirits in this board in terms of belief.

You have not shown me any Bible verse that says there is only one version. The Bible doesn't say a word about "versions." Your comment is therefore false.

There are a few stallwart believers still hanging around. Most leave when there errors are exposed. It seems that believers prefer delusion over truth.



Luke 6:42 KJV
"Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. "
Me getting that mote out with the 2 kings and 2 chronicles verses. You not getting over what a version is as defined by the Bible and still with beam in your own eye.
Please quote the verse in the Bible that talks about "Bible versions."

Richard Amiel McGough
03-01-2013, 08:19 PM
:icon_hello: Ohyeah, Richard.

Tonight i has a big bwight wed koowaid smy-yi-l.

Sewiouswy?

WEDNECKZ WOCK!!!


No serioisly, i think we need to look up the definition of religion, and i am pretty sure you are familiar with "Magick w/o Tears"...no?

"...religere vs negligense....hunh?

Hey there Timmy,

I read that book many years ago, but don't remember much of it right now. How is it relevant?

Meanwhile, the point of the video is that folks tend to fall into delusions but no one WANTS to be deluded. So why are they so insistent on using DELUSIONAL logic to support their religion? Can't they see that delusional logic leads to delusion? What's really going on? What's keeping their minds trapped?

What does WEDNECKZ WOCK!!! mean? Today's Friday.


Ok, how about my own defn.?
Science, government, psychology, demonations, etc=any institution(alisation) that has adherants espousing ideas that are thought to be laws, adherants ofnwhich live by those ideas to the exclusion or persecution ((cognitive)dissonance) against anything that contradicts these belie ed "laws" adhered to.

How's that?

Not so good really. It mixes the good with the bad. Science is institutionalized skepticism. Religion is institutionalized delusion. It's absurd to list them together. They are opposites.

Yes, I know that science can be corrupted and become like religion, but that's not the issue we're discussing.



You ready for a bit of conceptual badminton freund?

Here's the volley:

The video sucks and is infantile in it's rudimentary misconceptions of what really happens at the subliminal level.

You'll have to elaborate. What was "infantile"? What "rudimentary misconceptions" does it contain. What "really happens" on the "subliminal level"?



Ok, so the shuttlecock was just smashed line-drive like to go over the net, but nearly straight up in the air...

So i will propose something relative to the first brilliant comment before you have opportunity to return volley:

I do not think most people have a spinal chord that comes close to even touching their brain...and what does the wife's sig line say? Never trust what?

Never trust anything you are afraid to question.

How is that relevant to our conversation?



I'm ready for whatever xomes baxk at me...

or not

[hint: there is a majorly huge missing element that should be considered inn relation to cognitive bias and dissonance that the video fails to address,--and this in itself BTW--is the very thing this video maker is doing as an example of this missing element]

All in all, the video is kind of correct with this primer. Are there other vids relative before this one, or does this author miss it all together?


Timmy
I look forward to your elaboration on the problems in the video. As yet, you have only said that there are problems but have failed to say what they are.

Timmy
03-01-2013, 10:41 PM
Hoyoh Richardo:yo:

The reference that book by Phoenix was summarised in the french words "religious vs negligence"
So, you will have to show me how science and scepticism against anything not proven by its method did not replace your belief if it is not a religion as you claim.

A woman within three decades past the advent of the twentieth century wrote a book in her study of psychology pinpoints what i failed to address, and instead just hinted about. I do not know if it is easy to come by presently, however when i obtained it, i had to "jump through alot of hoops" just to get my copy. Violet Firth, penname Dion Fortune, also published as similar work, but far less explicitly detailed (and three chapters less covering other things) available to the general public called, "Machinery of the Mind."

The main point is this, it really does not matter what a person believes about anything, because when it comes down to being a matter of life or death, cognitive disonance is not the issue...it is secondary to whatever it takes to survive. Cognitive Disonance and "Tribal Informational Boundaries" and all that other bat guano becomes irrelevant and arbitrary when anyone realises death could come knocking in the next breath...and that is the infantile failure of the video.

When it comes right down to induced chaos, a human will befriend a Tasmanian Devil or a Screaming Banshee if they see a better possibilty of living just a moment longer through natural qwild enemy. Until a person recognises that every choice that is made--and most people make over 6,000 eaxh day--is directly related to life or death, whether scientific sceptic or adherent to some other belief system besides science (or materialism FTM), a person thinks they can afford CD...but at what price, if not ultimately our last breath?

After we know we are living, spinal chord attached, then we all exhibit CD in varied measure over every issue in life.

cognitive disonance--one of those things mind "sciences" think they discovered, but often times before psychology gave a special name to something that already existed, it was called things like heresy, lies, deception, mysticism, hermetics, selfdeception, close-minded, death by lethal injection, the firing squad, selfharming, none-compliance, traitor, rebellion, and so on and on and on--Point is, there is a wide gamut to world views and just because someone may not have the view of the culture they find themselves in, does that qualify them as having cognitive bias???

What if the one claiming the other to be cognitively biased/dissonant is actually pointing the finger at their self? Aren't you the one who so often so quickly pulls up Romans 2.1 when you are putting judgements baxk in the face of whoever the xian perp is? What about Matthew 7.1-?? ?

You know how it works, when i point my finger at you, there are three pointing back at me.

What about Roses quote i love so much?

Under the moniker of znujeeL~ on the Zeelist, i loved to play this very game, andnso i would write, before any "impulse from the realm of quantum flux was delivered through the ætherspheres," i would write:


...Question everything...
And in all thy questioning
Question Thyself

1. Cognitive Dissonance is irrelevant to survival...ground of being

2. Everyone will chase after what they think to be the brightest and shiniest object(ive) if they think they are sure they will survive or thrive. [from which cognitive dissonance arises in every single person)
...so we should question ourselves as much as everything else we are questioning.

3. Then comes the T.I.B., or as i prefer to call it, pack animal or herd instinct, but is merely mob mentality that Jung coined the "collective."


The overview of the 5 xian premises is an expression of prejudice because it is basically true only for--what Viktor Frankl called, "The True Believer" who will not accept any evidence contrary to what they assume to be true, which the voice in this video is doing. It is religion that does this, where there is an unswerving belief and xonfidence in any human intitution.

We think there are reasons for everything, but physics has proven time is not linear, and moves from furure to past or is it from now into the past future, or from the past into now.or is it all jjstk omenthing and we think that by dividing and labeling everything we are somehow better off:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o


Mayne all this is not clear enough so i aum going to write this a different way tomorrow night some time, and avoid letting any kats out of the bag in the process.

I.will really appreciate further argument by everyone who will, so that maybe i can say this more clearly.


G'night,

Timmy

Ps 27:1
03-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Hi Timmy,

Blessed Sabbath to you! Fascinating video. I only watched the first 7 min or so because I want to do some reading and posting. Will watch the rest later. Do you believe God used evolution to "create" man? Just curious, since the video brought up evolution about the time I decided to put it on the back burner. I won't think any less of you if you do!:D

Steve

Timmy
03-02-2013, 10:17 AM
Hi Timmy,

Blessed Sabbath to you! Fascinating video. I only watched the first 7 min or so because I want to do some reading and posting. Will watch the rest later. Do you believe God used evolution to "create" man? Just curious, since the video brought up evolution about the time I decided to put it on the back burner. I won't think any less of you if you do!:D

Steve

G_d Bless you and yours through His Shabbat today BAKATCHA!

NO, i have never thought G_d needed to use evolution to create anything. The Word of God is all in all, and today all is upheld by the word of His power even as He created all things.

Every thing is devolving, not evolving. He made it that way.

Just because some so confuse themselves to think bad is good, white is black, up is down and so on, do not count me as one who professes to be wise, only to become a fool.

Evolution calls scripture a lie in principle.

Just because i find a petrified trove of different orbs: ball bearings, baseballs, basketballs, beach balls, etc, does not mean they evolved from one another, does it?

If there is an explosion in a junk yard, and after the smoke cleared, there stood a Boeing 747, would you sail the friendly skies in it?

Me neither.

Timmy

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 10:20 AM
"Evolution calls scripture a lie in principle."

Yes it denies God meant "day" it puts words in or takes then out. I actually have an interesting collection of verses for those who beleive in the gap and don't beleive in evolution. And beleive in a literal 7 day creation and yes it's all possible/Biblical.

Timmy
03-02-2013, 10:47 AM
"Evolution calls scripture a lie in principle."

Yes it denies God meant "day" it puts words in or takes then out. I actually have an interesting collection of verses for those who beleive in the gap and don't beleive in evolution. And beleive in a literal 7 day creation and yes it's all possible/Biblical.

Just the reference points would be nice to study.

What is the gap?

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 11:20 AM
The gap itself is a theory that something happened between genesis 1:1 and 1:2. There's the Biblical gap and the evolutionist gap.

I should make a new thread if we are too discuss this.

Rose
03-02-2013, 11:35 AM
"Evolution calls scripture a lie in principle."

Yes it denies God meant "day" it puts words in or takes then out. I actually have an interesting collection of verses for those who beleive in the gap and don't beleive in evolution. And beleive in a literal 7 day creation and yes it's all possible/Biblical.

Hi Funky1096,

By saying "Evolution calls Scripture a Lie" you are in effect saying that instead of all of nature declaring the truth of god's existence, it is declaring the falsehood of what the Bible teaches. I wholeheartedly agree, that at every turn evolution declares that the words of the Bible are WRONG because they are in direct contradiction to what all of nature declares. If a creator does exist it most certainly is NOT the god spoken of in the pages of Scripture. Everything science discovers regarding the origins of the universe and life are contrary to the beliefs of the primitive men who authored the Bible.

All the best,
Rose

Ps 27:1
03-02-2013, 11:37 AM
G_d Bless you and yours through His Shabbat today BAKATCHA!

NO, i have never thought G_d needed to use evolution to create anything. The Word of God is all in all, and today all is upheld by the word of His power even as He created all things.


Thanks Timmy,

You know with my old timer's disease and in light of some of your recent videos, I wasn't sure. Thanks for spelling it out plainly for this duffer. I thought when I was linking the Walter Veith videos that you were in agreement then. I guess I got confused. Isn't hard for me to do.:lol:



Just because i find a petrified trove of different orbs: ball bearings, baseballs, basketballs, beach balls, etc, does not mean they evolved from one another, does it?

Good one. I've used the analogy of making a chair and table from the same tree. Or, in my Geometry classes I would often times use origami to illustrate definitions, properties, and yes, even theorems. Most of the students loved it since they are visually and kinetically oriented. Now just because I use the same first 5 or so folds to get a box or a bird, doesn't mean if I leave the box over spring break I will be greeted by a bird. If I were, it would be logical to assume someone was in my room playing around.:lol:




If there is an explosion in a junk yard, and after the smoke cleared, there stood a Boeing 747, would you sail the friendly skies in it?

Me neither.

Timmy

:lol: :thumb:

Steve

Rose
03-02-2013, 11:42 AM
The gap itself is a theory that something happened between genesis 1:1 and 1:2. There's the Biblical gap and the evolutionist gap.

I should make a new thread if we are too discuss this.

The difference between the biblical gap and evolutionist gap is that the biblical gap can never be filled or bridged because it is frozen in the age of primitive men and their primitive god; whereas the evolutionist gap is continually shrinking as new evidence and discoveries are found to fill out our knowledge and understanding of how the universe was formed.

All the best,
Rose

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 12:48 PM
Hi Funky1096,

By saying "Evolution calls Scripture a Lie" you are in effect saying that instead of all of nature declaring the truth of god's existence, it is declaring the falsehood of what the Bible teaches. I wholeheartedly agree, that at every turn evolution declares that the words of the Bible are WRONG because they are in direct contradiction to what all of nature declares. If a creator does exist it most certainly is NOT the god spoken of in the pages of Scripture. Everything science discovers regarding the origins of the universe and life are contrary to the beliefs of the primitive men who authored the Bible.

All the best,
Rose
Bingo! :thumb:

That's exactly what all Christians preach when they oppose the Bible against Reality. They are declaring two things: 1) The Bible is blatantly false and cannot be trusted, and 2) Anyone who believes the Bible is delusional.

That's what happens if you set your religious ideology against the ROCK OF REALITY.

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 12:57 PM
Ah the unedifying science vs the Living God debate this subject sucks and yet is amazing.

"By saying "Evolution calls Scripture a Lie" you are in effect saying that instead of all of nature declaring the truth of god's existence, it is declaring the falsehood of what the Bible teaches. I wholeheartedly agree, that at every turn evolution declares that the words of the Bible are WRONG because they are in direct contradiction to what all of nature declares. If a creator does exist it most certainly is NOT the god spoken of in the pages of Scripture. Everything science discovers regarding the origins of the universe and life are contrary to the beliefs of the primitive men who authored the Bible."

No me saying "Evolution calls scripture a lie" I mean literally that XD.

Creation allows us to learn about heavenly things like physical vs spiritual death and dominion.
For example we physically die we have to eat and exercise. If we did not die we would not care about spiritual things we would never get there.
Exact picture of our spiritual life. We must eat and exercise spiritual. We eat and feed by read the word of God. We excercise by testing our knowledge of scripture against other by talking and study.
Would you like more comparison?

[EDIT]
Btw while I have you all looking at this.
I keep seeing a few people call Saturday the holy day or sabbath. What are they talking about....

Ps 27:1
03-02-2013, 01:15 PM
If there is an explosion in a junk yard, and after the smoke cleared, there stood a Boeing 747, would you sail the friendly skies in it?

Me neither.

Timmy

Just having fun,

Samuel 377 came in a 707 and left in a 747.

1Sa 1:20 Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called (ותקרא 707 )his name Samuel (שמואל 377) , saying, Because I have asked (שאלתיו 747 ) him of the LORD.

1Sa 1:28 Therefore also I have lent (השאלתהו 747 ) him to the LORD; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the LORD. And he worshipped the LORD there.

Explained more in another thread.:D

Steve

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 01:19 PM
"Samuel 377 came in a 707 and left in a 747."

What are you guys talking about when you say 707 and 747?

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 02:40 PM
If there is an explosion in a junk yard, and after the smoke cleared, there stood a Boeing 747, would you sail the friendly skies in it?

This is one of the most common of the many creationist fallacies.

Evolution is NOTHING like an "explosion in a junk yard." The fact that creationists use this argument merely exposes their inexcusable ignorance.

Evolution is driven by "chance" just like thermodynamics. Evolution explores the "phase space" of all possible genetic patterns. The environment at time t naturally selects the forms most fit for that environment. Nothing could be more natural or expected. Evolution is just the operation of natural law.

Here is a debate where Dr. Rainbow gives very valuable explanation of what the actual science of evolution says.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tJ-ryHrTrA

The good stuff starts @32 minutes in. He made a graphic that shows how the "evolution machine" which runs 24/7/365 while exploring the "evolutionary phase space."

If you understand his explanation you will understand why the validity of evolution is as certain as the second law of thermodynamics.

Ps 27:1
03-02-2013, 02:45 PM
"Samuel 377 came in a 707 and left in a 747."

What are you guys talking about when you say 707 and 747?

:lol: Oh, this is priceless! :lol:

Welcome to the merry-go-round that is the BW forum, Mr. Funk, :yo:

Click on the bible database tab at the top of the page. Scroll down till you see the gematria box. Enter 747. Go to the 4th occurrence which is 1 Sa 1:20. You're (not "your":winking0071:) on your (not "you're") own now, kiddo.

BTW, that was not how I came across it. I had been studying 1 Samuel 1 and specifically the name "Samuel", when I had noticed the 747 at the end of the verse. Since it was fresh in my mind, thanks to Timmy, I decided to have a little fun. Like a pun, only with numbers.

A little laughter helps to ease the dizziness. :D

Steve

edit: wrong verse reference
2nd edit: lol at me correcting funky on your and you're and I can't even spell across right. I suck at spelling :lol:

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 02:53 PM
"Evolution is NOTHING like an "explosion in a junk yard." The fact that creationists use this argument merely exposes their inexcusable ignorance.

Evolution is driven by "chance" just like thermodynamics. Evolution explores the "phase space" of all possible genetic patterns. The environment at time t naturally selects the forms most fit for that environment. Nothing could be more natural or expected. Evolution is just the operation of natural law. "
Yep
(Forgets to mention all factual mutations are extremely detrimental and the few with positive affects do very little)

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 03:17 PM
(Forgets to mention all factual mutations are extremely detrimental and the few with positive affects do very little)
Not true. Dr. Rainbow in the video explicitly states that 99.9% of all mutations are detrimental.

You simply do not understand what you are talking about. The relative number of good/bad mutations is not the issue. The issue is that evolution is inevitable (like the second law) because it is based on the same principle of exploring evolutionary "phase space."

Watch the video starting at about 32:00 minutes in and watch it through the phase space explanation. That should help clear up your confusion and free your mind from the deceptions taught by creationists.

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 03:43 PM
XD I will say this then watch the video.

You have more "faith" in this then you do most things.
Lets see the last recorded population change due to mutations was.... Unrecorded if it exists.

*goes to watch video*

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 03:54 PM
XD I will say this then watch the video.

You have more "faith" in this then you do most things.
Lets see the last recorded population change due to mutations was.... Unrecorded if it exists.

*goes to watch video*

I don't have any "faith" in evolution.

What makes you think you have the right to judge other people?

What makes you think I have any "faith" in evolution? That's the most typical creationists absurdity out there. You try to level the playing field by dragging me down to your level. You equate your blind ignorant FAITH in superstitions with my knowledge of science. That's nuts.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 03:55 PM
Lets see the last recorded population change due to mutations was.... Unrecorded if it exists.

Now I understand your confusion. You apparently have never heard of the fossil record!

Rose
03-02-2013, 03:56 PM
Ah the unedifying science vs the Living God debate this subject sucks and yet is amazing.
No me saying "Evolution calls scripture a lie" I mean literally that XD.

Creation allows us to learn about heavenly things like physical vs spiritual death and dominion.
For example we physically die we have to eat and exercise. If we did not die we would not care about spiritual things we would never get there.
Exact picture of our spiritual life. We must eat and exercise spiritual. We eat and feed by read the word of God. We excercise by testing our knowledge of scripture against other by talking and study.
Would you like more comparison?



I'm sorry but you have lost me completely. :confused: Maybe you can restate what you're talking about in another way because I don't know what evolution has to do with testing our knowledge of Scripture????

All the best,
Rose

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 04:23 PM
Now I understand your confusion. You apparently have never heard of the fossil record!

Laughing out loud no I know about the fossil record.

[EDIT] Turn to *1:06:23

XD the creationist is full of BS at this point like I just proved in the Bible.
Soo the physical first earth could be 300,000 years old... Cool.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 04:31 PM
Laughing out loud no I know about the fossil record.

Turn to 10:06:23

XD the creationist is full of BS at this point like I just proved in the Bible.
There is no time marked as 10:06:23.

Your laughter makes me think of this verse:

Ecclesiastes 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

You appear to be totally ignorant of the science of evolution.

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 04:44 PM
The evolution machine is just an oversimplified way of saying the middle is what we know as normal. Everything else could or couldent be good evolution.

Solid facts? No.
Deal with the other issues? No.
Requires a form of belief? No*.
I sound more mad to you as we get deeper into true Biblical doctrine. Almost the entire Christian community is carnal like many on the forum to the core. Very many of them constantly make the mistakes in the immature Christian sign thread.

Going to start dogging on the creationist? I hope so parts of his "data" are not Biblically sound.

Timmy
03-02-2013, 04:49 PM
:yo:Richard:icon_hello:Shashana:yo:

Whatbdo you guys think of the Egyptian evolutionary model--(this magickal tradition i first espoused, or should i say this espoused me: through O.S.V.--Ogdoadism)--where after Aumun & Aumaunet, Heh & Hauhet, Kek & Kauket, with Nun & Naunet<--the gods of chaos--brought forth order on the primordial waters in the form of an egg, from which the young sun god emerged. Anyway to make a long story short, there finally came worms of all discriptions, from one type of which, man evolved.
(If you do study it all, it does appear quite a bit more reasonable than Darwinian Evolutionary theory.)

The junkyard explosion? No i never bought it either as Ex Nihlo seems more plausible...i think it is why Steve chuckled when i said, "me neither."

Now, if evolution and thermodynamics are actually driven by chance, then "Survival of the Fittest" is a bald faced lie. We also know from the natural world that nobody can say that the strongest always wins the fight nor does the race automatically go to the fleetest foot.

Also, if we are evolving within the laws of thermodynamics, and these are driven by chance then everything you are saying is meaningless drivel and there really is no reason anybody need say anything, have any attitude about anything, believe anything, think that anything is relevant because of it's nature to randomly change at any unforseen moment...and i could go on and on and on about all this but it is all just chance so none of nothing matters anyway, because nothing from nothing leaves nothing...right?





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Funky1096
03-02-2013, 04:59 PM
Lets see from my perspective in very blunt words.

At the moment I should do what Paul did at mars hill.

I see evolutionists mostly non spirits and staying here entertaining you is vanity.


"I'm sorry but you have lost me completely. Maybe you can restate what you're talking about in another way because I don't know what evolution has to do with testing our knowledge of Scripture???? "

It has nothing to do with the word of God. It has everything to do with dogs who refuse and foolishly choose to recognize a god or refuse to recognize the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob.
Simple verse that applies to spirits only
James 2:18-20 KJV
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead"

Jesus died for us on the cross repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(Btw there's a difference between KOh and the kingdom of God.

[EDIT]
"Whatbdo you guys think of the Egyptian evolutionary model--(this magickal tradition i first espoused, or should i say this espoused me: through O.S.V.--Ogdoadism)--where after Aumun & Aumaunet, Heh & Hauhet, Kek & Kauket, with Nun & Naunet<--the gods of chaos--brought forth order on the primordial waters in the form of an egg, from which the young sun god emerged. Anyway to make a long story short, there finally came worms of all discriptions, from one type of which, man evolved."

Ah so those are the devils/spirits/gods that evolutionists beleive in.
Explains their beggining XD.

Ps 27:1
03-02-2013, 05:14 PM
Now I understand your confusion. You apparently have never heard of the fossil record!

Ah yes, the fossil record. I believe your database has missplaced a few stones. :D Ebenezers, to be clear. :D

All the Verses containing Ebenezer :

1Sa 4:1 And the word of Samuel came to all Israel. Now Israel went out against the Philistines to battle, and pitched beside Ebenezer: and the Philistines pitched in Aphek.
1Sa 5:1 And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.
1Sa 7:12 Then Samuel took a stone, and set it between Mizpeh and Shen, and called the name of it Ebenezer, saying, Hitherto hath the LORD helped us.

When I click the number link next to the Hebrew it doesn't show up in the number list. However, in looking for Ebenezer, I did find a bird. And she wasn't in or from a box. At least not from what I could tell. Zipporah צפרה H6855 Tsipporah 375 . Same as מאבנהעזר 375 (Ebenezer) in 1 Sa 5:1.

Moses turns in to 375 when he is given Zipporah. Exo 2:21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter.
למשה 375 (Moses) I guess he saw the light. (Lamed, 12th Letter) Any connections to Zippo lighters?:lol:

Also discovered "help" in "stone of help" (Ebenezer) is the same as עזר H5828 `ezer / help Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

My theory is that your software is reading Ebenezer as 2 words and not one.

So, I was looking for a stone and found a bird. Funny in light of my post to Timmy. We have evidence of birds in stone (fossil record), but do we have records of the wanna-be-birds in stone? Maybe they flunked out of flight school.:lol:

Steve

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 05:14 PM
The evolution machine is just an oversimplified way of saying the middle is what we know as normal. Everything else could or couldent be good evolution.

Solid facts? No.
Deal with the other issues? No.
Requires a form of belief? Yes.
I sound more mad to you as we get deeper into true Biblical doctrine. Almost the entire Christian community is carnal like many on the forum to the core. Very many of them constantly make the mistakes in the immature Christian sign thread.

Going to start dogging on the creationist? I hope so parts of his "data" are not Biblically sound.

Evolution is founded on ROCK SOLID FACTS (quite literally, the fossil record). And DNA, etc. Massive amount of evidence. Creationists are totally ignorant and deluded.

What "other issues"?

Evolution does not require any "form of belief" like your religious superstitions. Get real. Evolution is SCIENCE.

Your assertion that you are "spiritual" and we don't understand you because we are "carnal" is the essence of religious delusion. I'm not talking only about you. I'm talking about every religiously deluded person. How do you differ from the average cult member who says exactly the same thing? Every religious believer thinks they are the "spiritual" and anyone who disagrees is "carnal."

So how you do you if you are one of the deluded believers or not? If you were born Muslim you'd probably be a Mujahadeed given your passionate nature. Woudn't you fiercely believe you were right and you'd happily murder ten thousand of the infidels?

How do you discern between TRUTH and DELUSION? Or don't you care?

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 05:21 PM
Ah yes, the fossil record. I believe your database has missplaced a few stones. :D Ebenezers, to be clear. :D


That's a cute play on words. :winking0071:

But seriously ....



All the Verses containing Ebenezer :

1Sa 4:1 And the word of Samuel came to all Israel. Now Israel went out against the Philistines to battle, and pitched beside Ebenezer: and the Philistines pitched in Aphek.
1Sa 5:1 And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.
1Sa 7:12 Then Samuel took a stone, and set it between Mizpeh and Shen, and called the name of it Ebenezer, saying, Hitherto hath the LORD helped us.

When I click the number link next to the Hebrew it doesn't show up in the number list. However, in looking for Ebenezer, I did find a bird. And she wasn't in or from a box. At least not from what I could tell. Zipporah צפרה H6855 Tsipporah 375 . Same as מאבנהעזר 375 (Ebenezer) in 1 Sa 5:1.

Could you be more specific? I went to 1 Sa 5:1 and didn't find any problem. The "bird" is zepporah which sums to the value 375. I don't see what the problem is.



Moses turns in to 375 when he is given Zipporah. Exo 2:21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter.
למשה 375 (Moses) I guess he saw the light. (Lamed, 12th Letter) Any connections to Zippo lighters?:lol:

Also discovered "help" in "stone of help" (Ebenezer) is the same as עזר H5828 `ezer / help Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

My theory is that your software is reading Ebenezer as 2 words and not one.

So, I was looking for a stone and found a bird. Funny in light of my post to Timmy. We have evidence of birds in stone (fossil record), but do we have records of the wanna-be-birds in stone? Maybe they flunked out of flight school.:lol:

Steve
Moses doesn't "turn into" 375. It's just the value of the Hebrew phrase "to Moses" which is Moses (345) prefixed by a Lamed (30) to give 375.

Ebenezer is a compound word. Eben (Stone) of Ezer (Help).

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 05:28 PM
:yo:Richard:icon_hello:Shashana:yo:

Whatbdo you guys think of the Egyptian evolutionary model--(this magickal tradition i first espoused, or should i say this espoused me: through O.S.V.--Ogdoadism)--where after Aumun & Aumaunet, Heh & Hauhet, Kek & Kauket, with Nun & Naunet<--the gods of chaos--brought forth order on the primordial waters in the form of an egg, from which the young sun god emerged. Anyway to make a long story short, there finally came worms of all discriptions, from one type of which, man evolved.
(If you do study it all, it does appear quite a bit more reasonable than Darwinian Evolutionary theory.)

I take it you were not using the word "theory" in the scientific sense. Obviously, there is no Egyptian "theory" of evolution.


Now, if evolution and thermodynamics are actually driven by chance, then "Survival of the Fittest" is a bald faced lie. We also know from the natural world that nobody can say that the strongest always wins the fight nor does the race automatically go to the fleetest foot.

I don't understand your comment. You seem confused about the difference between chance and natural law. It is the LAW of large numbers coupled with chance that drives thermodynamics. It is an exploration of phase space. Did you watch the video explaining evolutionary phase space. If not, please do. It starts around 33 minutes. It will correct a lot of confusion spewed out by the creationists.



Also, if we are evolving within the laws of thermodynamics, and these are driven by chance then everything you are saying is meaningless drivel and there really is no reason anybody need say anything, have any attitude about anything, believe anything, think that anything is relevant because of it's nature to randomly change at any unforseen moment...and i could go on and on and on about all this but it is all just chance so none of nothing matters anyway, because nothing from nothing leaves nothing...right?

I don't see how your comments follow from any facts. There is nothing about evolution that implies meaninglessness. Meaning is defined in terms of relations between things. There are relations between things in evolution. Therefore, organisms that evolved consciousness can understand meaning.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 05:32 PM
Ah so those are the devils/spirits/gods that evolutionists beleive in.
Explains their beggining XD.

That is the most delusional statement I've read today. To think that modern 21st century biological scientists really believe in "devils/spirits/gods" is insane. It shows how the religiously deluded PROJECT their own delusions onto others. They believe things without any evidence, so they think those who disagree are doing the same thing.

Timmy
03-02-2013, 05:41 PM
Ok Richard,

I'll give about three hours to the video...(and note the .33 and 2.51 marks particularly); but did you watch my less than an hour one forwarded?

I only gave a convoluted premise and did not even get into the core issue...and prollly will not have time to write it after these 3 hours.


Timmy

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Evolution is founded on ROCK SOLID FACTS (quite literally, the fossil record). And DNA, etc. Massive amount of evidence. Creationists are totally ignorant and deluded.

What "other issues"?

Evolution does not require any "form of belief" like your religious superstitions. Get real. Evolution is SCIENCE.

Your assertion that you are "spiritual" and we don't understand you because we are "carnal" is the essence of religious delusion. I'm not talking only about you. I'm talking about every religiously deluded person. How do you differ from the average cult member who says exactly the same thing? Every religious believer thinks they are the "spiritual" and anyone who disagrees is "carnal."

So how you do you if you are one of the deluded believers or not? If you were born Muslim you'd probably be a Mujahadeed given your passionate nature. Woudn't you fiercely believe you were right and you'd happily murder ten thousand of the infidels?

How do you discern between TRUTH and DELUSION? Or don't you care?

The Bible solely the Bible and to add to your confusion the word of God saith the physical "life" isint even real life we are stuck by time. spirits are not they go to heaven or hell then judgement. Humans without a spirit lose their soul in the grave. spirits have true eternal life. Now if they go to the lake of fire or new Heaven and new earth is a different story.

Besides alot of verses to back up what I'm saying.

First of all one faith Biblical Christianity (the way us sons of God are supposed to be)
Is non existent nowadays like you said we all have a "faith" and you must only beleive certain parts of a specific version they give you. If you pointed out any of this truth using soley the KJV to one of the various denominational "beleivers" they would call you mad and unbiblical (inspite of it being straight out of their book)
Many of them would permanently hold their its unbiblical stance, the majority of which are those without spirits (if they are a son/spirit of God wouldent they beleive you when you told them the truth straight out of His book?)
Surprisingly few of them would give it true consideration. Even fewer would accept those errors and build their faith off of an unfailible Bible.


Most besides those people have a physical body, a soul. And all the sons of God will have spirit bodies. Now I really am wasting my time not quoting the Bible so I need to make another topic about salvation.

"What "other issues"?

Evolution does not require any "form of belief" like your religious superstitions. Get real. Evolution is SCIENCE."

Good point science does not mean faith. Those other issues happen to be confirming the theory of evolution, scientifically explaining exactly how that chain of evolution started, confirming the BBT, explaining EXACTLY how the brain interacts with the soul/mind. Finding where our soul/mind is. Finnaly telling me why we cant use a perfectly ready flesh body and put the soul/mind back into it.
There has been cases where doctors have had a perfectly running body. But no way to make it start walking and talking again it lost its mind/soul. So explain away.
Btw don't use the Bible that requires some form of recognition of a higher power then that of man kind.


[EDIT]

carnal
Things related to the needs of the physical body rather than the spiritual body

http://m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=carnal

Yes almost all of the Christian community is carnal to the core.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 07:50 PM
The Bible solely the Bible and to add to your confusion the word of God saith the physical "life" isint even real life we are stuck by time. spirits are not they go to heaven or hell then judgement. Humans without a spirit lose their soul in the grave. spirits have true eternal life. Now if they go to the lake of fire or new Heaven and new earth is a different story.

You mean the Roman Catholic Bible with the Apocrypha, right? Or the Ethiopian Bible with even more apocrypha? Or just the good old ORIGINAL KJV that had the apocrypha in it?

Your position is totally irrational. You claim to base everything on the "Bible" but you can't even define it!

I've asked you many time to define the Bible and you have ignored me. Yet you ramble on repeating "Bible, Bible, Bible, Bible ..... not even knowing your words are meaningless until you define what they mean.


Besides alot of verses to back up what I'm saying.

First of all one faith Biblical Christianity (the way us sons of God are supposed to be)
Is non existent nowadays like you said we all have a "faith" and you must only beleive certain parts of a specific version they give you. If you pointed out any of this truth using soley the KJV to one of the various denominational "beleivers" they would call you mad and unbiblical (inspite of it being straight out of their book)
Many of them would permanently hold their its unbiblical stance, the majority of which are those without spirits (if they are a son/spirit of God wouldent they beleive you when you told them the truth straight out of His book?)
Surprisingly few of them would give it true consideration. Even fewer would accept those errors and build their faith off of an unfailible Bible.

This proves my point yet again. You claim the KJV is somehow "the book" as if it defined the Bible. But that's INSANE because the KJV wasn't published until the 17th century. I've explained this at least three times and you have just ignored the truth.

I always find it odd that folks most likely to ignore the truth are the Christians who claim to worship the truth.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 07:51 PM
Ok Richard,

I'll give about three hours to the video...(and note the .33 and 2.51 marks particularly); but did you watch my less than an hour one forwarded?

I only gave a convoluted premise and did not even get into the core issue...and prollly will not have time to write it after these 3 hours.


Timmy
Just to get the times correct. The "2:51" was a typo that I've fixed. The only important part starts at 33 minutes in and goes on for about 20 minutes. It explains evolution as an exploration of genetic phase space. Evolution is as inevitable as the flow of water through a ravine.

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 08:11 PM
"Your position is totally irrational. You claim to base everything on the "Bible" but you can't even define it!

I've asked you many time to define the Bible and you have ignored me. Yet you ramble on repeating "Bible, Bible, Bible, Bible ..... not even knowing your words are meaningless until you define what they mean. "

Go re-read OP here http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3612-Dissproving-Bible-versions-of-Christians

The verses refernce at first define the word of God.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-02-2013, 08:20 PM
"Your position is totally irrational. You claim to base everything on the "Bible" but you can't even define it!

I've asked you many time to define the Bible and you have ignored me. Yet you ramble on repeating "Bible, Bible, Bible, Bible ..... not even knowing your words are meaningless until you define what they mean. "

Go re-read OP here http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3612-Dissproving-Bible-versions-of-Christians

The verses refernce at first define the word of God.
That thread proves my point.

I explained your errors over and over again but you just ignore the facts. For example, I told you "You are merely assuming that the KJV is correct. How do you justify such a position? The KJV didn't even exist until the 17th century."

And you just ignored this fact. If the KJV did not exist until the 17th century, then is it not totally INSANE to say that it defines the Bible?

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 08:32 PM
"For example, I told you "You are merely assuming that the KJV is correct. How do you justify such a position? The KJV didn't even exist until the 17th century.""

Simple I cannot prove this but the good fruit of the KJV points to this statement I will make.
You beleive the original authographs inspired by God where inerrant from one of your posts.

I beleive using alot of Biblical evidence to reproof that the KJV of 1611 was inspired no not the printing jobs but the translators where inspired by God making God directed additions and corrections of decay(that is to say double inspiration original autographs inspired, decay corrections and additions inspired). I solely base this off the good inerrant fruit that has reproofed many of my inconsistent and plain wrong doctrines. (don't even get me started about the "revisions" topic)and the KJV good fruit itself.

Any other statements besides how illogical this seems to your carnal (physical directed) mind?

[EDIT]

Which version of insanity definition are you using?

Absurd mentally ill minded?
Or doing the same thing over again expecting a different result?

Timmy
03-02-2013, 08:51 PM
Hi Richard:yo:

I have only made it to the 41 minute mark so far.

My views are not so contrary to Dr. Rainbow as it appears the his own theory of evolution is a mutatation differing in some ways from what Darwin wrote in "The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or The Preservation of Races In The Struggle For Life." If not, he is fudging just to make his rendition more palatable.

Anyway he appears to--from what is observed so far--be presenting a view that seems like agnostic deism. In these terms, it is no different than what was argued in GræcoRoman philsophies which pitted fatalism against free choice.

I am not really interested in this video, or arguing against or for evolution, if not for the fact that it denigrates the emphasis of Adonai Eloheinu as expressed through Ha'Mashiach et Ha'Kodesh Ba'al ha' aretz et Olam, because it does not answer the questions, the most basic questions: who am i? Why am i here? What is the purpose to existence? Etc???

Anyway, as promised, the whole will be gone through with comment as we proceed. You can respond or not.
So what do you think--i personally find both views fruitless eventually as these arguments move full circle--? Do you think the universe deterministic and or free agency?

Why do you think this makes sense...and i do not want to hear a bunch of facts because i could probably pull up more facts against darwinianisms by former evolutionists than you could twards it...and arguing will get us nowhere fast.

Honestly, i had about all i could take when he re-labeled survival of the fittest as "ambush predation."

How is "natural selection" not selecting against, since natural selection is selection???

It has been traditional for evolutionists to say that evolution occurs in spurts, and he says that the evolution machine operates continuously and seamlessly and that is why you do not realise it occurs.

Here is anhuge fallacy though: he talks that phenotype.changes due solely to it's environmental axis (determinism again).
Phenotype changes in response to environs and not neccesarily because of them.

There is much more that is questionable about how he intends on fitting tje model he is building into the second law o thermodynamics that you are talking about and no, i am not one whoncan be content juustnto jump tonthe end.

Most of the questions that remain are subQs of the above.

Finally, why have successive generations of whatever species always been referred to as decent (with modification) and never ascent??? How can you be so sure mutation ks not just damage control???


If science(=knowledge) is evolution, there is nothing sure about it because it is always changing.
What hope isnthere in that?


Sincerely,

Timmy

Funky1096
03-02-2013, 08:59 PM
Btw Timothy the point of science is factuality and physical validity there is no hope in that. It is all facts.

Ps 27:1
03-02-2013, 09:07 PM
Could you be more specific? I went to 1 Sa 5:1 and didn't find any problem. The "bird" is zepporah which sums to the value 375. I don't see what the problem is.

Ebenezer is found in 3 verses. 1 Sa 4:1 Ebenezer value = 340. Plug 340 in your database and no Ebenezer. 1 Sa 5:1 Ebenezer value = 375. Plug in 375 and no Ebenezer. 1 Sa 7:12 Ebenezer value = 335. Plug in 335 and no Ebenezer. In the Blue Letter Bible website, the Masoretic Text shows a break אבן העזר 'Eben ha-`ezer . That is why I said I thought your software was reading it as 2 words. IOW, you're missing your "stones of help".:eek::D





Moses doesn't "turn into" 375. It's just the value of the Hebrew phrase "to Moses" which is Moses (345) prefixed by a Lamed (30) to give 375.

Thanks for the lesson in Hebrew. Does that mean that any name prefixed by Lamed means "to .."?

BTW, the 2 entrances to our subdivision are off a road called .................................................. .................................................. ..Ebenezer.

Shortly after we bought our house, I had some river stones delivered to our house to use in garden and flower beds. In that pile of stones were 3 large ones. I decided to set them up at the entrance of our driveway. Just a coincidence or not.:D

I'll post a picture of those stones, soon.

Steve

Timmy
03-02-2013, 10:41 PM
Ebenezer is found in 3 verses. 1 Sa 4:1 Ebenezer value = 340. Plug 340 in your database and no Ebenezer. 1 Sa 5:1 Ebenezer value = 375. Plug in 375 and no Ebenezer. 1 Sa 7:12 Ebenezer value = 335. Plug in 335 and no Ebenezer. In the Blue Letter Bible website, the Masoretic Text shows a break אבן העזר 'Eben ha-`ezer . That is why I said I thought your software was reading it as 2 words. IOW, you're missing your "stones of help".:eek::D




Thanks for the lesson in Hebrew. Does that mean that any name prefixed by Lamed means "to .."?

BTW, the 2 entrances to our subdivision are off a road called .................................................. .................................................. ..Ebenezer.

Shortly after we bought our house, I had some river stones delivered to our house to use in garden and flower beds. In that pile of stones were 3 large ones. I decided to set them up at the entrance of our driveway. Just a coincidence or not.:D

I'll post a picture of those stones, soon.

Steve
Want to talk about an amazing Shabbat?

Everything that occurred today, with few exception, i saw it all last Shabbat.
This is more than deja vue, and lucid too.

Show me those stones.


T

Ps 27:1
03-03-2013, 09:08 AM
Want to talk about an amazing Shabbat?

Everything that occurred today, with few exception, i saw it all last Shabbat.
This is more than deja vue, and lucid too.

Show me those stones.


T

Et tu, Timmu?:eek: (In a good way :D)

Patience Grasshopper (talking to myself :lol:)

The synchronicities are coming faster than I can keep up with. Oh that I could type faster.:lol: I started this post last night, but my wife threatened to pull the plug if I didn't go to bed. :lol:

How about these "stones" for now?

1st stone: English ordinal value of Ebenezer = 80 In RAM's own words The Number 80: Yesod / Foundation http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_80.php

2nd stone: English standard value of Ebenezer = 962 In RAM's own words The Number 962 - The Settled Word http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_962.php

3rd stone: Combined value of Ebenezer = 80 + 962 = 1042 7 words = 1042.

1st word is third in: 1Sa 3:8 And the LORD called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And Eli perceived that the LORD had called the child.

קרא 301
שמואל 377
בשלשית 1042

call Samuel third time..... Remember all the threes? (Come thou fount has three verses, too.) Remember the 301? BTW, 377 is the combined English value of blue. 40 + 337 = 377

7th word is majesty or mighty power in: 2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

majesty. μεγαλειοτης G3168 megaleiotes 672 >>>>> μεγαλειοτητος 1042

There are 3 occurrences of G3168. 3168 is the gematria of Lord Jesus Christ http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_3168.php
672 is the numeric part of my license plate and is one of the 8 strings found in the 3x3 magic square.

There are 33 words that = 672. The last is translate in: Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

5th, 6th, 7th Greek words that = 672: vision, him that formed, appearing (brightness/ epiphany)

Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

In 2007, I had a vision which I will expound upon in a different thread.

672 = 224 x3 The 1st word that = 224 is "the way" found in: Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The 3rd word is "Spirit" in: Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

The 6th Greek word that = 224 is "mighty" in: Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.


There is one verse that = 1042

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. Isa 60:1

All for now. So many stones, so little time.:D

Steve

edited to fix a broken link :D

Ps 27:1
03-03-2013, 09:41 AM
Hey Timmy!

I promise I did not do this deliberately.:D Notice the time of the fixed link 9:13 (well, actually 11:13 my time, which is still good :thumb:)

913 should be obvious to most.

For 1113:

The 1st word is sabbath
The 3rd word (1st Greek) is sign

Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Yesterday I was going to post in the Torah thread how the sabbath is a sign that God redeems and seals us. I guess He had something different in mind for me. I love it when He does that.

What an amazing sabbath indeed!:D

Steve

Timmy
03-03-2013, 01:15 PM
Thanks Steve:yo:

...and yes, amen.
He leads us in the way we should go.

This all fits in with current issues and i do not understand it that clearly, but you have done alot of the legwork already...even providing links, which makes it all quite a bit less daunting. My focus is on the "glory" of the LORD and the relationship this has to light--( G_d is light)...and this light reflected through us.

Timmy

Rose
03-03-2013, 01:45 PM
Thanks Steve:yo:

...and yes, amen.
He leads us in the way we should go.

This all fits in with current issues and i do not understand it that clearly, but you have done alot of the legwork already...even providing links, which makes it all quite a bit less daunting. My focus is on the "glory" of the LORD and the relationship this has to light--( G_d is light)...and this light reflected through us.

Timmy

Hello Timmy,

Exactly which way is it that he leads us in? The Bible is filled with many different paths leading in various directions; one way leads to treating women as property, another way leads to stoning people for adultery, or not honoring their parents, and yet another way leads to burning a witch with fire.

If we choose to use our own discernment to judge what is the correct way then what do we need the Bible for?

All the best,
Rose

Timmy
03-03-2013, 02:57 PM
:icon_hello:Aloha Big Kahuna!

Waka waka, eh eh? et tu u:

@ 41 min. +...
Dr.Rainbow speaks of "phase space" factors as random--environment and wherever the organism is driven by the environment constantly changing (through factors such as: tectonic shifts, disease, drought, etc)

His saying "phase space" is random IS OPPOSITE SCRIPTURE.

Then he says that evolution is not (entirely) random.
This is right after he talked about (transposons moving DNA enhancers,.etc) mutation being less than 90% efficient...natural selection determining this [less than 90% efficient (¿not random?)] process.

Then attempting explanation as to the way this works, he contradicts his phase space statement (i.e. Environment is entirely random) claiming this evolutionary machine works with ruthless efficiency--not random--like (an environmental factor element he just said was entirely random (drought)) water.


Richard, am i being duplicitous or is he?
Probably both of us, so because this observer of this debate critique promised to do it, please tell me when you observe that i miss or mix up something.

You first responded back to me in that you spoke of the huge number, relative to randomness...which was the only thing that interested me enough to check out the vid.

I say chaos theory: fractals...and either most professors are ignorant of other peoples intelligence, or are ignorant that even the most complex model contrived is too simplistic to stand up under the complexity of it all.

My own bias toward Hovind is already pretty established, so please do not expect me to watch his stuff seriously.


I'm going to stop here with this debate for now until later, even though it is only a few minutes past where it was previously left off.


Cognitively Dissonant, or not

Timmy


I think i should go back to my post of last night and argue with myself. It certainly seems alot more challenging.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-03-2013, 03:34 PM
:icon_hello:Aloha Big Kahuna!

Waka waka, eh eh? et tu u:

@ 41 min. +...
Dr.Rainbow speaks of "phase space" factors as random--environment and wherever the organism is driven by the environment constantly changing (through factors such as: tectonic shifts, disease, drought, etc)

His saying "phase space" is random IS OPPOSITE SCRIPTURE.

Then he says that evolution is not (entirely) random.
This is right after he talked about (transposons moving DNA enhancers,.etc) mutation being less than 90% efficient...natural selection determining this [less than 90% efficient (¿not random?)] process.

Then attempting explanation as to the way this works, he contradicts his phase space statement (i.e. Environment is entirely random) claiming this evolutionary machine works with ruthless efficiency--not random--like (an environmental factor element he just said was entirely random (drought)) water.


Richard, am i being duplicitous or is he?
Probably both of us, so because this observer of this debate critique promised to do it, please tell me when you observe that i miss or mix up something.

Hey there Timothy,

It appears the confusion lies entirely in your court. His explanation is perfectly lucid, correct, and deeply insightful in my estimation. There are no "contradictions" that you speak of. The fact that mutations are random does not mean that natural selection is random. There is nothing random about a deep sea fish dying if it is on dry land.

Do you understand the concept of phase space in physics?

Do you understand the concept of a genetic phase space?

The "ruthless efficiency" refers to the ergotic nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergodic_theory) of the exploration of the genetic phase space. That behavior is CAUSED by randomness.


You first responded back to me in that you spoke of the huge number, relative to randomness...which was the only thing that interested me enough to check out the vid.

I don't think you understood my comment. Flipping a coin is a totally random process. You could get any sequence of heads and tails. But when the numbers get really HUGE you can very confidently assert that the RANDOM process gives 50/50 results to a very high order of precision with very high probability.



I say chaos theory: fractals...and either most professors are ignorant of other peoples intelligence, or are ignorant that even the most complex model contrived is too simplistic to stand up under the complexity of it all.

The only ignorance I have seen is displayed in those who oppose evolution for religious/philosophical reasons.

It's really weird for you to bring up chaos theory and fractals. That's very advanced mathematics. It totally supports, indeed proves, evolution.



My own bias toward Hovind is already pretty established, so please do not expect me to watch his stuff seriously.

No one with half a brain could take that lying fool seriously for half a second.



I'm going to stop here with this debate for now until later, even though it is only a few minutes past where it was previously left off.

That's too bad. I'd like to work with you to help you see that evolution is as natural as gravity and common as dirt.



Cognitively Dissonant, or not

Timmy


I think i should go back to my post of last night and argue with myself. It certainly seems alot more challenging.
Get real. Evolution is apparently way over your head. Yet you oppose it? How is that possible?

Timmy
03-03-2013, 03:41 PM
Hello Timmy,

Exactly which way is it that he leads us in? The Bible is filled with many different paths leading in various directions; one way leads to treating women as property, another way leads to stoning people for adultery, or not honoring their parents, and yet another way leads to burning a witch with fire.

If we choose to use our own discernment to judge what is the correct way then what do we need the Bible for?

All the best,
Rose

:icon_hello: Hi Rose,

Your own cognitive dissonance has led your bias to a place of never looking at the Bible, except something to either find disagreement with or feeble attempts to disprove. Do not get angry, or you will make yourself like a kingdom without the barriers of walls to protect against onslaught.

Whoever humbles themselves will be exalted
And those who exalt themselves shall be humbled.


People think that G_d just has to do things because he said it, never accounting for the way they themselves act toward other people and God. Just because G_d said one thing that we assume correct because we have numbered a verse to confine it does not mean that everything before and after that verse do not also apply.

If i tell you, " If you go jump off a bridge and you will find out the hard way about gravity." Yet you say,"He told me to jump off a bridge, isn't that a little out of context. What if that was said while i was explaining how airfoils work and the law of lift? That puts a totally different spin on everything.

In answer to what you said, and clearing up what i am getting at in writing what i just wrote, here some of that scripture that you pprobably just passed by for the sake of defamation...but who is defaming who???

This is from a Psalm of Dawid:


With the faithful
You prove Yourself faithful;
with the blameless man
You prove Yourself blameless;
with the pure
You prove Yourself pure,
but with the crooked
You prove Yourself shrewd.
You rescue an afflicted people,
but Your eyes are set against the proud —
You humble them.
Lord, You are my lamp;
the Lord illuminates my darkness.

If we are willing to obey and follow, Hashem guides; but do not expect Him to put any extra support toward your activities when you cannot trust Him.

Does G_d believe in athiests?
What if He doesn't even believe in the person who does not believe in Him?

I'm not taking chances elsewhere and have yet to be disappointed.

You have to keep on seeking to find.


According to your belief(s), be that onto you.


Shalom,


Timmy

Timmy
03-03-2013, 11:26 PM
:icon_hello:Aloha Big Kahuna!

Waka waka, eh eh? et tu u:

@ 41 min. +...
Dr.Rainbow speaks of "phase space" factors as random--environment and wherever the organism is driven by the environment constantly changing (through factors such as: tectonic shifts, disease, drought, etc)

His saying "phase space" is random IS OPPOSITE SCRIPTURE.

Then he says that evolution is not (entirely) random.
This is right after he talked about (transposons moving DNA enhancers,.etc) mutation being less than 90% efficient...natural selection determining this [less than 90% efficient (¿not random?)] process.

Then attempting explanation as to the way this works, he contradicts his phase space statement (i.e. Environment is entirely random) claiming this evolutionary machine works with ruthless efficiency--not random--like (an environmental factor element he just said was entirely random (drought)) water.


Richard, am i being duplicitous or is he?
Probably both of us, so because this observer of this debate critique promised to do it, please tell me when you observe that i miss or mix up something.

Hey there Timothy,

It appears the confusion lies entirely in your court. His explanation is perfectly lucid, correct, and deeply insightful in my estimation. There are no "contradictions" that you speak of. The fact that mutations are random does not mean that natural selection is random. There is nothing random about a deep sea fish dying if it is on dry land.

Do you understand the concept of phase space in physics?

Do you understand the concept of a genetic phase space?
Yes, but studied for the sake of "i had to" nori do not buy into them. For all the genius that has, does, and will ascribe to these conceptualisations, they are mere model. Now, since the current physics model cannot account for approximately 75% of the gravity out there, what does that say about any mathematic model? To many of our geniuses mistake the map for the road.

(This is why they oftimes find themselves surprised by experimental results beyond PSI, such as in the field of Quantum Mechanics.)

In a controlled environment, where variables are predefined, it is not hard to see any result we design, however, IRL, there are variables unaccounted for in both the model, and at times quantum experimentation bears this out...if one calculates parameters in different terms than the models and experiments warrant.

Is atomic "substrata" --with all it's various "particulates"-- wave form or objects?
The electron microscope tells us one thing, father or son Bohr say both, and things like reverse fiber optic experimentation or double slit add more possibilities.


Case in point concerning, oh, let's see, let's stick with math in relation to space...then time.

So, we define three arbitrary axisymmetric lines to seperate space into three dimension. Still physic recognises at least four (and there is at least one beyond this without planer dimensionality). The model cannot account for even four, so by default it fails. With mathematics we can step a mere fraction, at best beyond three. So, any model, being a planer representation is not near a correct picture of reality.

Many fail to keep this distinction in mind, and many more fail to even recognize this.



...back to our three intersecting LIEnz compared with what science currently perceives to be reality:

The--[North and South (<--arbitrary distinctions BTW)]--polar heights of the earth lies orthogonal to the height.at the equator. What spacial direction does the universe favor???

Let's go a step further and add time to the mix by analogy. The problem is we have no perceptual equiptment to define it's three coordinate axes.
It's hoped you see what is being pointed toward
Scaled measurements can only measure "the now" and "11 min. ago" or "+7 min." can only be estimatable measures.

There really is no particular direction or time that is more particularly relevant than any other arbitrary direction or space in time.

All temporal vectors have the same value scale to us although our perspective profoundly impacts how we percieve interactions.

It's just like what you say about numerics in relation to certain sequences of letters being no more significant than any other...and no, i do not believe in an observer created universe as there is a distinct difference between a quantum hologram and quantum holography or the interaction thereof.




The "ruthless efficiency" refers to the ergotic nature of the exploration of the genetic phase space. That behavior is CAUSED by randomness.see above comment, and consider that i have operated in terms of "ruthless efficiency."




You first responded back to me in that you spoke of the huge number, relative to randomness...which was the only thing that interested me enough to check out the vid.

I don't think you understood my comment. Flipping a coin is a totally random process. You could get any sequence of heads and tails. But when the numbers get really HUGE you can very confidently assert that the RANDOM process gives 50/50 results to a very high order of precision with very high probability.Well, maybe not. I don't know..so, read through all this first, and then decide to answer this or not further.



I say chaos theory: fractals...and either most professors are ignorant of other peoples intelligence, or are ignorant that even the most complex model contrived is too simplistic to stand up under the complexity of it all.

The only ignorance I have seen is displayed in those who oppose evolution for religious/philosophical reasons.

It's really weird for you to bring up chaos theory and fractals. That's very advanced mathematics. It totally supports, indeed proves, evolution.Things can get curiouser and curiouser still mein freund. Mayhaps it might require a bit of discernment as to whether i am non or not though, amidst the seriousity, cynicality, and sarcasmics.

Very advanced mathematics hunh? Does tutoring statistics, calculus, and physics in college qualify to possibly have at least inkling enough to write a term paper on it?

What if you were told everything is spiralnature and it is simply a matter of ascetaining any nsmovement
through multidimensional times logarithmic nonequivalent
that predisposes n as influencable?

And what is the nature of black stars or wormholes?

No i wouldn't buy it either and i don't even know what a black star is, but i have seen many wormholes in the dirt.



My own bias toward Hovind is already pretty established, so please do not expect me to watch his stuff seriously.

No one with half a brain could take that lying fool seriously for half a second.Well, at least that's settled.



I'm going to stop here with this debate for now until later, even though it is only a few minutes past where it was previously left off.

That's too bad. I'd like to work with you to help you see that evolution is as natural as gravity and common as dirt.See, that's it. Right there...i think. It is as natural as gravity, however it is a winding down: devolution--and though common, it is more than just a machine.

My two daughters are no mistake and neither are they random results. They are the result of "thoughts" my wife and myself deliberately imprinted in our consciousness at their conception, and more than the sparkle in our eyes: IRL BudWill Servitors. Call it evolution if you want, but my children fly in the face of randomly generated natural selection--the "machine" was manipulated.

Do you understand Shekinah in relation to the union of el and eloha???

"...and what is the son of man that you are concerned with hir? You have made hir a little lower than elohim..."

Richard, ask yourself what is your own cognitive disonance...please? Where does your own bias lie?



think i should go back to my post of last night and argue with myself. It certainly seems alot more challenging.
[QUOTE =RAM]Get real. Evolution is apparently way over your head. Yet you oppose it? How is that possible? What if this is more real than you could suspect? Mayhaps Timmy is just getting too used to being free from a football helmet, special padding, our straight-jacket, and comforrtably padded rooms.

We both liked this as kids: U N I. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm4BrZjY_Sg)

Why don't you read Beresheet 30 and think about how we predetermined after planning... to bring into the world two different girls (not boys): looking nothing like either parent or relatives, both of completely different physique, stature, complexions, and the way they would recall "collectiveness" according to predesigned "phenotyping", then tell me i do not understand what you think is evolution.

AYR,

You gotta' love Timmytardo...hunh?
At least in the phileo sense of the wurd, maeB?

Usually, the whys become pretty irrelevant and are in some ways, seen for what they are after you know how.



There are more than six different types of electricity, each with their own bases of induction/conduction and energic properties.

Timmy
03-04-2013, 09:18 AM
Hey Richard my brother,

Howz about another one of those special songs, relative of course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ


The more i think i know, i see the less i know.
I'll start from to beginning of the video again, after listening to you, and arguing with myself and personal cognitive dissonance with it's accompanying hubris.

Thanks for the input.

i really am avid to learn, and any further assistance toward misconceptions of presented perspective (by and through my own bias) is greatly appreciated.


In gratitude:

Learn me.

Rose
03-04-2013, 09:20 AM
:icon_hello: Hi Rose,

Your own cognitive dissonance has led your bias to a place of never looking at the Bible, except something to either find disagreement with or feeble attempts to disprove. Do not get angry, or you will make yourself like a kingdom without the barriers of walls to protect against onslaught.

Whoever humbles themselves will be exalted
And those who exalt themselves shall be humbled.


People think that G_d just has to do things because he said it, never accounting for the way they themselves act toward other people and God. Just because G_d said one thing that we assume correct because we have numbered a verse to confine it does not mean that everything before and after that verse do not also apply.

Hello Timmy,

There is no dissonance in my cognitive faculties. I have looked at the Bible from many perspectives, the most recent being with skepticism which is the way everything should be viewed to be able to get the clearest picture. There is no feebleness in skepticism for it allows the doors of our perception to be unobstructed by bias, it treats everything in the same manner. I have no anger, I am just not allowing myself to be deceived. There is no reason I should believe what is handed to me on the biblical platter without using my intellect to judge the value of its contents.


If i tell you, " If you go jump off a bridge and you will find out the hard way about gravity." Yet you say,"He told me to jump off a bridge, isn't that a little out of context. What if that was said while i was explaining how airfoils work and the law of lift? That puts a totally different spin on everything.

In answer to what you said, and clearing up what i am getting at in writing what i just wrote, here some of that scripture that you pprobably just passed by for the sake of defamation...but who is defaming who???

This is from a Psalm of Dawid:


With the faithful
You prove Yourself faithful;
with the blameless man
You prove Yourself blameless;
with the pure
You prove Yourself pure,
but with the crooked
You prove Yourself shrewd.
You rescue an afflicted people,
but Your eyes are set against the proud —
You humble them.
Lord, You are my lamp;
the Lord illuminates my darkness.


If we are willing to obey and follow, Hashem guides; but do not expect Him to put any extra support toward your activities when you cannot trust Him.

Does G_d believe in athiests?
What if He doesn't even believe in the person who does not believe in Him?

I'm not taking chances elsewhere and have yet to be disappointed.

You have to keep on seeking to find.


According to your belief(s), be that onto you.


Shalom,


Timmy

Quoting poetry from an ancient king does nothing to explain why I should believe that the content of a holy book written by primitive men should cause me to blindly follow its words as if spoken from a deity. Who am I really obeying? It seems like you are saying my obedience should be to the image that men with a patriarchal mindset have decreed is creator. The feminine voice is absent from the pages of Scripture and everything is clothed in masculine garments, this is the landscape that the Bible gives us. So, why do you receive it without question?

All the best,
Rose

Rose
03-04-2013, 04:26 PM
Hello Rose :yo:,

I think you have many thought provoking ideas. You might want to browse my wife's website, especially her "about me" page. She has pictures of "girl power" :D

http://www.buttonsandbutterfliesbykaren.com/agfantasy.htm

Scroll down till you see the Swedish Lass. I think they get their power from those stones.:lol: (Standing on the Rock:D)

Those are her early creations. If you go here http://www.buttonsandbutterfliesbykaren.com/ewjustforfun.htm and scroll to Tutti Frutti ~ Just for Fun #9 you will see an outfit she sold for over $900 :eek: Our daughter who was living with us at the time was collaborating with her by repainting the dolls. The dolls would be sold separately from the outfits. This repainted doll also sold for over $900 :eek:

The thing is, that very day, a previous buyer/bidder, who my wife had to open an unpaid case against (she would win bids but would not pay and made excuses, etc) wrote my wife an email cursing her and saying that God would not bless her and she wouldn't get anywhere, etc.

Browse her creations. She wrote all the poetry that goes with the outfits, too.

Blessings,

Steve

Edit to clarify that the nasty email was before the bidding on the doll and outfit had skyrocketed and it had really upset my wife. When the bidding had finally ended, my wife and daughter were practically screaming with excitement. Apparantly, 2 bidders with moola, got into what's called nuclear bidding. :D

Hello Steve,

I checked out your wife's website and must say she has done an excellent job (even though I am not into dolls) on her creations. I'm glad she is able to make an income off of what she loves to do.

Though I was not raised in a Christian home I too (like your wife) had a very deep sense of "God" from the time I was very small. In my mid twenties I found Jesus and consequently mapped the "God" of my childhood onto the Biblegod, my absolute assurance of his existence remained unmovable until about three years ago when I began to ask tough questions about the Bible and wholeheartedly sought to find answers. One of the first books that sparked my interest was called Thank God for Evolution written by Michael Dowd. Surprisingly, I never finished that book, but jumped over to another book on evolution by Richard Dawkins called The Greatest Show on Earth. This was only the beginning of a very interesting and unexpected journey of exploration that ended up leading me out of the Christian faith.

Those who are content to remain in their belief system - as I was all those years - will never ask the tough questions, nor seek their answers...consequently they will remain safely inside their religious boxes never venturing beyond its security. As long as you and your wife are content with where you are at there will be no pressure to move you forward, so you will remain inside the box of your belief system. If you ever begin to truly question the many problems contained within the Bible and will settle for nothing less then truth for an answer you will experience the freedom that I found. I have a blog called God and Butterfly (http://godandbutterfly.net/) which I started at the beginning of my journey to freedom, three years ago...it is an active journal of my metamorphosis from the cocoon of Christianity to the freedom of a butterfly. As I said, when I began my journey three years ago I never in my wildest dreams expected to end up an atheist, but here I am.

All the best,
Rose

Timmy
03-04-2013, 04:53 PM
Hello Timmy,

There is no dissonance in my cognitive faculties. I have looked at the Bible from many perspectives, the most recent being with skepticism which is the way everything should be viewed to be able to get the clearest picture. There is no feebleness in skepticism for it allows the doors of our perception to be unobstructed by bias, it treats everything in the same manner. I have no anger, I am just not allowing myself to be deceived. There is no reason I should believe what is handed to me on the biblical platter without using my intellect to judge the value of its contents.



Quoting poetry from an ancient king does nothing to explain why I should believe that the content of a holy book written by primitive men should cause me to blindly follow its words as if spoken from a deity. Who am I really obeying? It seems like you are saying my obedience should be to the image that men with a patriarchal mindset have decreed is creator. The feminine voice is absent from the pages of Scripture and everything is clothed in masculine garments, this is the landscape that the Bible gives us. So, why do you receive it without question?

All the best,
Rose

Hello:icon_hello:Shashana

There is no reason for you to think that i think that you will think like i think. I was just expressing what was brought to mind at that moment. You don't have to read anything from this quarter if that is what sugarz your spice. You think i really think that you think that anything i think is to be accepted just because you might think that i think that you should think like i think?

i don't think so.


I too have looked at the Bible from many perspectives, so the only difference there is is each of our perspectives and how we perceive things as a result of that.

You say there is no dissonance in your cognitive faculties, so why in the next breath would you tout scepticism?
No two people, in practice, adhere to the same standard.
This is called bias.
Bias is the source of dissonance.
If a person were actually a True sceptic, treating everything without bias, yeah, there is no dissonance...
...so what are you doing writing what you wrote since you treat everything in the same manner?
Ok, so you are not a sceptical purist.
It follows then that thinking one might be deceived predisposeds dissonance coming out from/of bias. Right?
The video calls this "communication filters."

What is the basis you judge the content of whatever, aside from past fears invoked?
It could ne toward a sense of belonging perhaps.
Usually it has to do with self-image, and the idea of acceptance, whether that be plaesing yourself and/or others: aspiring toward confidence of our own worth.

The feminine voice is absent from nearly everything ancient script even onto post post-modern times.

Still, that is no reason to single out scripture as though that is the reason certain women are abused in certain places at certain times.
(Forexample, Shariah law is beginning to be used as a justice system in courts of England. In cases where court is held under Islamic rule, when it is brought out that women are beaten, the more mercilessly this is done, the more the men are applauded...and guess what is happening in Detroit Michigan in 2013? The exact same thing.)

...but to claim you or i or anyone else is not holding dissonance in our heads is inconceivable.

To hold and adhere to any notion or idea necessitated bias.
Anything contrary to bias might become a source of dissonance, if not outwardly expressed, inwardly thought or sensed.


The problem with things that allow us to provoke a sense of uncertainty in ourselves, it leads to paralysis of normal functioning. On a lesser scale it exhibits itself in those who put off today what they can do the day after the day after tomorrow.

It's supposed that those who do blindly accept anything because somebody who appears to represent an authority figure or ones best interest, really are never themselves. They do not know who they really are or what they are capable of. Because these tolerate lame beliefs that actually establish a herd mentality, don't they do it for a sense of security? These have been observed to tolerate injustices against others, and with conditioning over time, even themselves....bah, i'm rambling againNagain.


What occupies the shadow theater in your mind?


NOW 4 THE $ 64,000,000,000.00 QUESTION:
So why do i receive it [scripture] without question?

I never have.


Sincerely,

Timmy

Rose
03-04-2013, 06:00 PM
Hello:icon_hello:Shashana


I too have looked at the Bible from many perspectives, so the only difference there is is each of our perspectives and how we perceive things as a result of that.

You say there is no dissonance in your cognitive faculties, so why in the next breath would you tout scepticism?
No two people, in practice, adhere to the same standard.
This is called bias.
Bias is the source of dissonance.
If a person were actually a True sceptic, treating everything without bias, yeah, there is no dissonance...
...so what are you doing writing what you wrote since you treat everything in the same manner?
Ok, so you are not a sceptical purist.
It follows then that thinking one might be deceived predisposeds dissonance coming out from/of bias. Right?
The video calls this "communication filters."

What is the basis you judge the content of whatever, aside from past fears invoked?
It could ne toward a sense of belonging perhaps.
Usually it has to do with self-image, and the idea of acceptance, whether that be plaesing yourself and/or others: aspiring toward confidence of our own worth.

Hello Timmy my friend,

Skepticism does not imply dissonance and treating everything in the same skeptical manner is not biased. Of course I would not be so arrogant as to say I am not biased, because I am sure I am biased in many ways of which I am unaware, but I try to be as open as possible to all points of view so I can understand why people act in the manner they do. This is what clued me into the extremely male biased nature of the Bible. Just ask yourself the question: why do men treat women in such an unequal manner in the Bible? Well the answer is from the perspective of the primitive male mind men think they are superior, therefore the male god they created also thinks men are superior, thus women are treated as the property of men. It's all pretty simple once you understand the view point from which people are operating.


The feminine voice is absent from nearly everything ancient script even onto post post-modern times.

Still, that is no reason to single out scripture as though that is the reason certain women are abused in certain places at certain times.
(Forexample, Shariah law is beginning to be used as a justice system in courts of England. In cases where court is held under Islamic rule, when it is brought out that women are beaten, the more mercilessly this is done, the more the men are applauded...and guess what is happening in Detroit Michigan in 2013? The exact same thing.)

You are absolutely right! The feminine voice is missing from nearly all ancient documents, but the reason I am focusing on its absence in the Bible is because that is the ancient document that many modern people hold to be the word of god. What I am trying to show is that the Bible is a perfect reflection of how primitive and some modern men think. Christian and Islamic fundamentalist are good examples of the modern male mindset that perceives the female gender as being inferior to the male, thus their god also views women that way.




What occupies the shadow theater in your mind?


NOW 4 THE $ 64,000,000,000.00 QUESTION:
So why do i receive it [scripture] without question?

I never have.


Sincerely,

Timmy

The hour of the day will tell you what shape and portion of the theater the shadow occupies...:D

Please do grace me with an answer to the 65 billion dollar question????? Why do you accept the words of an ancient text without discrimination? I know my reason in times past was because it never occurred to me to question the validity of a book that is so widely accepted (herd mentality) :sEm_blush8:.

All the best,
Rose

Funky1096
03-04-2013, 09:21 PM
"the male god"

Common misconception God is a he in the term of completeness not in the term of maleness.
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3617-Complexity

The fifth post explains away.

Rose
03-05-2013, 09:25 AM
"the male god"

Common misconception God is a he in the term of completeness not in the term of maleness.
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3617-Complexity

The fifth post explains away.

There is no misconception, the biblical god is completely masculine, he was created from the minds of primitive men who shaped and formed his image after their own male egos. The feminine voice is absent from Scripture, all that the Bible contains is the male perspective of the female.

Rose

duxrow
03-05-2013, 09:56 AM
Not so fast, Rose..
:woah:
The Greatest Story has GOD as male and his son as male because it's the son who impregnates the female, and who carries on The Family Name. So the 1st Covenant, for the Jew, is like the marriage of Jacob to Rachel which contained a SWITCH that resulted in his marrying Leah -- like the switch at Calvary when it was the Gentiles who entered into the New Covenant, INSTEAD of the Jews getting their Rest.

The female represents the 2nd (New) Covenant, by having "Christ formed within" (pregnant!), and her betrothal to "the Bridegroom".

So the Old Covenant emphasis on the male, and the New Covenant on the female. Gal 4:24. :winking0071:

Rose
03-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Not so fast, Rose..
:woah:
The Greatest Story has GOD as male and his son as male because it's the son who impregnates the female, and who carries on The Family Name. So the 1st Covenant, for the Jew, is like the marriage of Jacob to Rachel which contained a SWITCH that resulted in his marrying Leah -- like the switch at Calvary when it was the Gentiles who entered into the New Covenant, INSTEAD of the Jews getting their Rest.

The female represents the 2nd (New) Covenant, by having "Christ formed within" (pregnant!), and her betrothal to "the Bridegroom".

So the Old Covenant emphasis on the male, and the New Covenant on the female. Gal 4:24. :winking0071:

Exactly! It is the male god who impregnates the human female who gives birth to the son who carries on the family name. The female is only used as the vessel and the soil to grow the seed...everything else is male. In the Old and New Testaments it speaks many times of offspring coming out of the loins of the man...never the woman. Here are a few examples:

Gen.46:26 All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;

Exo.1:5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

1Kings8:19 Nevertheless thou shalt not build the house; but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house unto my name.

Heb.7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:



There is no emphasis of the female in the New Testament, she is only mentioned as that which is to be in subservience to the male. The biblical hierarchy always has the male as head and the means of continuance, while the female is ordered to take her place at the bottom.

All the best,
Rose

duxrow
03-05-2013, 02:41 PM
OK Rose, maybe I shouldn't have used 'emphasis' on the female, but Catholics have surely highlighted the Virgin Mary, and the "Bride of Christ" (coming from the body, as Eve came from the body of the first Adam); so it's not like the female isn't given proper respect in the NT.

The 'Seed' principle goes along with the Greatest Story, and so the Promised Seed JESUS is in the loins of Jacob and in all the 65 generations leading to Mary -- hope you don't imagine that Mary's husband had any part in the birth of Jesus. :eek:

Funky1096
03-05-2013, 03:01 PM
There is no misconception, the biblical god is completely masculine, he was created from the minds of primitive men who shaped and formed his image after their own male egos. The feminine voice is absent from Scripture, all that the Bible contains is the male perspective of the female.

Rose

Umm yes there is go read God is complete (he) man is not(he singular) female is not(she singular)

By perspective us "servants" to Christ are she's Jesus is our "he" to make us complete.

If you want verses I'll explain but go read that topic first for the Biblical perspective.

Funky1096
03-05-2013, 03:12 PM
"Exactly! It is the male god who impregnates the human female who gives birth to the son who carries on the family name. The female is only used as the vessel and the soil to grow the seed...everything else is male. In the Old and New Testaments it speaks many times of offspring coming out of the loins of the man...never the woman. Here are a few examples:"

Actually the case of Jesus is special it is the He God (completeness) that impregnated the she(incomplete) and a He(complete) came out ie
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them"

Jesus is a he(complete/image of God) not a he(singular) HUGE DIFFERENCE.

More emphasis on completeness vs male/female.

Leviticus 20:11 KJV
"And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"


Woah fathers nakedness = wife.

Fathers nakedness is yet another implication of completeness not he vs she mentality.

Timmy
03-05-2013, 05:53 PM
Richard and Shashana:icon_hello:


ABOUT THE $66,000,000,000.00 QUESTION I HAVE BEEN AT A LOSS FOR WORDS TO ANSWER IN TERMS YOU PREFER
...but, by my Bubblicious i'll find a way to frame it right.

At least this ain't no Meckzerkin stant-hoff.

The question should not be asked, "So, why do you receive it without question?" because you were told I do not do that...and that will be explained further, too.

Note the answer in my cognitively dissonant response to you, Richard...the one before "Dust in the Wind."
At its conclusion, i said once you know how, you don't question why, though you do question the answers already given as to why.

Well, this answer is alot like that, but it is one more step removed.

Once you know the Who, Thee Who who knows you, you quit asking how, but ever wonder about the why.

...but this needs to be spelled out in detail. It has very much nothing to do with herd mentality anymore, and the year i actually decided to completely break off that limb and burn it was back in 2004, the fall. It wasn't just churches though. All institutions in thought, form, or power lost value completely to me.

I came back with a new perspective after wandering in the wilderness until 2008.

More later, and a more direct response to you Shashana.


Here's some food for thought though, and relative to these responses on this thred thus far...AND MORE.


Sincerely,

Timmy






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MmnThlYOo
Standing on the backs of angels
Destined to create
Mounting the attack
While heroes carry your weight

We spiral towards disaster
Survival fading faster

Riding out the wave
Content to feed off the machine
Bleeding us to death
The new American dream

You're blinded by your hunger
Beware your days are numbered

Tears fall from the shameless
Shelter me, guide me to the edge of the water
Selfless are the righteous
Burden me, lead me like a lamb to the slaughter
Blurring lines drawn in between
What is right and what is wrong
Victims on the radar string us along

We're on to your agenda
The dead end road to nowhere

Tears fall from the shameless
Shelter me, guide me to the edge of the water
Selfless are the righteous
Burden me, lead me like a lamb to the slaughter

Tears fall from the shameless
Shelter me, guide me to the edge of the water
Selfless are the righteous
Burden me, lead me like a lamb to the slaughter
Selfless are the righteous
Burden me, lead me like a lamb to the slaughter.

Rose
03-05-2013, 06:06 PM
Umm yes there is go read God is complete (he) man is not(he singular) female is not(she singular)

By perspective us "servants" to Christ are she's Jesus is our "he" to make us complete.

If you want verses I'll explain but go read that topic first for the Biblical perspective.

The Bible was written totally from the masculine perspective, all the laws governing women were conveniently given to men from their own masculine god to the female to obey. There is no man on earth that can know what it is like to live in a female body without being a female, so why is it that your supposed god saw fit to deliver all of the laws concerning the actions of women through men instead of directly to women?

Why did god talk to men about women's issues?

Why not speak directly to women?

I'll tell you why, it is because the god of the Bible was constructed from the minds of men and patterned after their male egos. The laws that men say came from god concerning women are nothing more than how men perceived women and how men want to dominate and control women. It's pretty easy to see if you aren't a biased man who thinks he should rule over women.

All the best,
Rose

Funky1096
03-05-2013, 06:50 PM
"I'll tell you why, it is because the god of the Bible was constructed from the minds of men and patterned after their male egos. The laws that men say came from god concerning women are nothing more than how men perceived women and how men want to dominate and control women. It's pretty easy to see if you aren't a biased man who thinks he should rule over women. "

No that is anti-scriptual. I've told and shown and even gave examples of completeness yet I will continue.

First of all the laws directed at women where not said directly to women they were said to everyone in Israel. Just like the laws directed at men(circumcision physically) where told to everyone.

Second Moses went to get the laws because God appointed him to be the intercession point of a whole nation. Why did God choose Moses above everyone else? If you hit judgement side ask God.

Do you think it was unfair for God to kill pharaoh, beasts, and all the dogs throughout their history? No they where not God's chosen people. Only Israelites at that time have spirit bodies. And only eight of them and the 144000 are going to be saved it says it right in the book of revelation.


"There is no man on earth that can know what it is like to live in a female body without being a female"

No and there is no women on earth who can tell how it is to be a man. This arguement goes two ways physically.

Easily I could argue we have a feminine God for the love of the New Testament and the Holy Spirit being mentioned a she a few times.

Both arguements ignore parts of Scripture I want the whole truth not selective parts of it.

[EDIT]

Don't go all more will be saved on me.

When I referred to the eight and the 144000 I am solely talking about the nation of Israel.

They are the first fruits along with those in the first ressurection.

Rose
03-05-2013, 10:09 PM
First of all the laws directed at women where not said directly to women they were said to everyone in Israel. Just like the laws directed at men(circumcision physically) where told to everyone.

Second Moses went to get the laws because God appointed him to be the intercession point of a whole nation. Why did God choose Moses above everyone else? If you hit judgement side ask God.

Do you think it was unfair for God to kill pharaoh, beasts, and all the dogs throughout their history? No they where not God's chosen people. Only Israelites at that time have spirit bodies. And only eight of them and the 144000 are going to be saved it says it right in the book of revelation.

Hello Funky1096,

There were many laws directed explicitly to women and they were usually concerning men's control over women. According to the Bible women were considered the property of men, first of their fathers and then of their husbands.

God didn't just choose Moses, the Bible is full of many men who received prophetic words for god and they all were male.

I think it was totally immoral for god to kill pharaoh after hardening his heart so he couldn't change his mind, and all the first born of Egypt, not to mention all the other men, women, and children he had slaughtered throughout the Old Testament.




There is no man on earth that can know what it is like to live in a female body without being a female

No and there is no women on earth who can tell how it is to be a man. This arguement goes two ways physically.

Easily I could argue we have a feminine God for the love of the New Testament and the Holy Spirit being mentioned a she a few times.

Both arguements ignore parts of Scripture I want the whole truth not selective parts of it.



I never said that women know what it's like to be men, because women are never given laws and rules from god to relay to men, so there is no argument that needs to go both ways.

The god of the New Testament in no way resembles anything feminine he is totally masculine right down to his description as being a father. Also, a mothers love is much more of a unconditional love like that given to a child than the more fatherly conditional love exhibited by god. God's conditional love is given upon obedience; whereas the love a mother gives her child has no requirements it is unconditional.

The Holy Spirit is never mentioned as a she, it is usually referred to in the neuter gender.

All the best,
Rose

David M
03-06-2013, 12:11 AM
This is an extremely enlightening series. I just listened to the sixth episode:

I'm posting this episode today because it reveals the psychology of how people protect themselves and their delusions from reality. This is quite relevant because we have two threads right now where we can see these psychological factors, such as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, in action. I'm talking about this thread (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3612-Dissproving-Bible-versions-of-Christians) where the King James Bible is being presented as the one and only "true" Bible and this thread (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3610-An-interesting-website-of-gematria-and-such) where random number patterns are taken as proof of the divine inspiration of the Torah.

I would like to know what Christians think about the video. Does it teach legitimate methods to avoid delusion? Should everyone follow the advice in the video?

If everyone followed the advice in the video, is there any religion that would stand? Or do all religions fall together? Are they all delusional?


Hello Richard

Getting back on track with this thread, as I watched the video, I can see that there are many elements to it some of which I can agree with and some I cannot. With any presentation like this, it is a personal view and of course we will agree or disagree depending on our own personal view. In this case, religion has nothing to do with it.
Often we are in direct disagreement with each other. If I say something is "white" you can say "it is not". We never get to resolve our points of disagreement to fnd the truth. We both have open minds and yet we have our beliefs which are in effect our conclusions.

If you want to get your answers from Christians, then you are like to get as many different answers as there are different Christian sects. Unfortunately, the word Christian is an abused term since many Christians do not do what Jesus tells them to do; "keep the commandments".

I cannot recall from the video what the methods are to be used to avoid delusion. Keeping an open mind about things that have no firm conclusion and avoid filtering is perhaps the best solution. "Is there any religion that will stand?" I doubt that is possible since it is impossible for all to agree on anything. All false religions will eventually fall once the truth is known. All man-made religions will eventually fall. Having watched Michael Rood's videos, I share his beliefs/conclusions. He is on a campaign to get the truth (as he understands God's word) out to the whole world and he is campaigning against "religion". Religions are man-made. The directive that comes from God should not be classed as religion.

"where random number patterns are taken as proof of the divine inspiration of the Torah" I know you have an open mind about the divine inspiration associated with at least some of the texts of the Bible. It seems you are more open-minded than Rose on this subject as Rose regards all the Bible as being written by primitive bronze-age men. Here again I am in direct opposition to Rose's thinking.

I do not recall the video above mentioning the word "hope". At times, we all hope for things to happen whether they be connected with our beliefs or not. How to do account for hope? Were you hoping to get a job with Google? I trust that hope is still alive. What must it be like for a person to have no hope at all; would they be candidates for suicide?

I have more questions than answers which is par for the course.

All the best

David

L67
03-06-2013, 07:22 AM
Hello Richard



If you want to get your answers from Christians, then you are like to get as many different answers as there are different Christian sects. Unfortunately, the word Christian is an abused term since many Christians do not do what Jesus tells them to do; "keep the commandments".



Not so fast. Most Christians don't realize that the ten commandments they believe in aren't the real commandments. The stone tablets given to Moses are the ten commandments. And they are not the ones so many Christians get wrong.

This video offers proof the Yahweh is not an all powerful god but the likes of a primitive tribal war god.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCJ8rb8Grw

Funky1096
03-06-2013, 09:37 AM
"The god of the New Testament in no way resembles anything feminine he is totally masculine right down to his description as being a father. Also, a mothers love is much more of a unconditional love like that given to a child than the more fatherly conditional love exhibited by god. God's conditional love is given upon obedience; whereas the love a mother gives her child has no requirements it is unconditional."

Actually that requires a full understanding of laws.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-06-2013, 09:55 AM
Hello Richard

Getting back on track with this thread, as I watched the video, I can see that there are many elements to it some of which I can agree with and some I cannot. With any presentation like this, it is a personal view and of course we will agree or disagree depending on our own personal view. In this case, religion has nothing to do with it.
Often we are in direct disagreement with each other. If I say something is "white" you can say "it is not". We never get to resolve our points of disagreement to fnd the truth. We both have open minds and yet we have our beliefs which are in effect our conclusions.

Good morning David, :tea:

It's good to be chatting again. It's been a while.

It would be interesting to explore the elements that you don't agree with. What is your take on the main point about how believers tend to delude themselves? Specifically, what is you take on "cognitive dissonance" and the book "When Prophecy Fails" that shows how FAILED prophecy can cause "true believers" to become even more deluded?

It is odd that you would say that religion has nothing to do with it. I agree that there are other kinds of ideologies where we see the same thing, but that doesn't mean religion has nothing to do with it! Religious delusion is the most common form of delusion out there.

Yes, we are often in direct disagreement, but that's not a matter of mere opinion. I proved many points with incontrovertible logic and perfect clarity. You could not refute those points. It's not a matter of opinion. It is fact on the level of 1 + 2 = 3. We didn't resolve those points because you quit the conversation.



If you want to get your answers from Christians, then you are like to get as many different answers as there are different Christian sects. Unfortunately, the word Christian is an abused term since many Christians do not do what Jesus tells them to do; "keep the commandments".

There are no Christians who reject the commandments. The problem is that the Bible is very ambiguous about how Christians are supposed to relate to the commandments. So there are ten thousand interpretations. You solution, or rather, the solution of the Christadelphians, directly contradicts many passages and so is not generally accepted amongst those who take the Bible seriously as the Word of God.



I cannot recall from the video what the methods are to be used to avoid delusion. Keeping an open mind about things that have no firm conclusion and avoid filtering is perhaps the best solution. "Is there any religion that will stand?" I doubt that is possible since it is impossible for all to agree on anything. All false religions will eventually fall once the truth is known. All man-made religions will eventually fall. Having watched Michael Rood's videos, I share his beliefs/conclusions. He is on a campaign to get the truth (as he understands God's word) out to the whole world and he is campaigning against "religion". Religions are man-made. The directive that comes from God should not be classed as religion.

Michael Rood is the most obvious fake, false, ridiculous, absurd, FAILED DOOMSDAY PROPHET, self-exalting lying freak (pretending to be a Jew) I've ever seen. How could you possibly believe a word he speaks?

It is quite ironic that one of the better articles debunking him (http://www.isitso.org/guide/rood.html) has a section on "cognitive dissonance" titled "When Prophecy Fails" because that's exactly what happened to the Michael Rood doomsday cult when his ludicrous prediction about the end coming in 2000 AD failed. Here is what I'm talking about:



When Prophecy Fails
Rood's ministry in the past was is conducted through the website michaelrood.com/ which no longer exists.
The original name of the site was "6001.com" but the ministry evidently lost the claim to that domain name at some point. The "6001" of the URL was a reference to his belief that the "6000 years since creation" were complete on the new moon of the first month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2000, and that we then entered the year 6001--and the seventh millenium.
However, this calendar date did not synchronize with the current Jewish calendar, as Rood also has declared that he has rediscovered the only True Calendar since the time of Christ. In the year 2000 he claimed to have been part of harvesting the only legitimate "green ears" of barley in Jerusalem that indicated the proper month for the year to begin ... one month after most other Jews and Holy-Day-keeping Sabbatarian Christians. This put his Feast of Tabernacles clear into the month of November in 2000.
Rood is not at all unique in his claims for his own role in End Times fulfillments. This Field Guide website provides history, profiles, and documentation about a number of teachers and groups which have predicted the Return of Christ to occur in their own time and/or declared that they had a unique role in the plan of God and were His primary spokesmen on earth in their own time, revealing truths hidden or lost by previous generations.
One particularly significant social-psychology book about this phenomena is titled When Prophecy Fails. It was written in the 1950s at the height of the enthusiasm for Flying Saucers. The authors stumbled on a small cult just then forming around a woman who claimed to be in contact with Space Aliens. She declared a date when her followers would be taken to space by the aliens and then disaster would fall upon the rest of mankind.
The authors of the book were able to infiltrate the group with their own research-associate college students, and thus were able to track what happened as the date for the End came and went. They were thus able to test some of their social psychology theories of how the human mind deals with dis-confirmation of an expected event.
Click here for details on the conclusions of the When Prophecy Fails (http://www.isitso.org/guide/fails.html)book.
In spite of the miserable failure of Rood’s bombastic pronouncements in 2000, he was right back at it the next year. On September 13, 2001, the following was on Rood's website. It was written on September 7.
The world will be in a panic in a few short days, but you will know what to do. If you do not, gather your family and friends and watch the following videos in order:
The Great Secret of Solomon´s Temple
The Feasts of the LORD and their Prophetic Fulfillment (10 hours)
The Mystery of Solomon´s Laver
I have sounded the alarm since my release 7 years ago this month. Last fall my throat was bleeding after sounding the warning for over 500 hours in 100 cities in 9 months. I have been on a forced Sabbath year since my health failed last October. But I had given my best in front of the television cameras in a final warning as to what is about to transpire. Get the videos now! Do not wait until this whole thing goes up in smoke and you are ready to grasp for any plausible concoction that shows up on "Christian" television.
This was in the midst of a long letter. As with most date-setters before and since, there were a couple of phrases buried in the context that would give him a way out if all this bombastic dogmatism didn't bear out.
"Depending on atmospheric conditions in the land of Israel, we will witness the first sliver of the 7th new moon at sundown on either the 18th or 19th of September. The date, if all of my calculations are correct, will be Tishri 1, 6001. I expect that the new moon will not be witnessed until the 19th at sundown which will cause all of the Feast days in my calendar to be shifted one day into the future. If this is the year that we have calculated, the night of Tishri 1, the skies will glow red over the land of Israel."
But it is undeniable that the average Rood supporter at that time would not focus on these words at all, but would rather breathlessly devour the rest of the hype in the letter. Such as the following excerpts:
For seven years I have been separated to sound the warning of the Times and Seasons of the Day of the LORD. My job is finished. I have a new assignment, but I need serious full time help from those who have taken heed. This next assignment will cost us our lives, and the dead wood is going to get burned. Interested? Grab your execution stake and give me – or better yet, give Jamie Louis a call ….
… Watch the sky over Israel on September 18th and 19th. Tishri 1 begins the last phase of our countdown to the Confirmation of the Covenant on Tishri 10.
Do not faint. Stay faithful to the end and I will see you when the smoke clears.
Although Rood has stumbled over and over in his own "theories" that have led to his failed date speculations, he has very little tolerance for the theories of others, and doesn't hesitate to take them to task in very strong words …
But, due to circumstances beyond my control, I have been forcibly self-introduced to hundreds of overbearing, pseudo-intellectual, anal-retentive couch potatoes who want to beat me over the head with their half-baked theological drivel, demanding that I not only listen to them, but I must agree with them on every harebrained idea that they concoct. [spring 2000 newsletter posted on Rood's website]
Click here for a more detailed chronology of Rood's failed predictions. (http://www.isitso.org/guide/roodhist.html)


This thread is becoming a very lucid demonstration of the video. You believe Michael Rood because Michael Rood confirms your biases. I cannot imagine any other reason anyone would ever believe such an obvious charlatan.



"where random number patterns are taken as proof of the divine inspiration of the Torah" I know you have an open mind about the divine inspiration associated with at least some of the texts of the Bible. It seems you are more open-minded than Rose on this subject as Rose regards all the Bible as being written by primitive bronze-age men. Here again I am in direct opposition to Rose's thinking.

Rose and I have different perspectives on some things. But we are in agreement that the Bible is indelibly marked by the prejudices and superstitions of the primitive Bronze age men that wrote it. But I'm also sensitive to the various patterns since I studied them in depth. Rose is aware of them and she sees them as an "unanswered question" but they are not sufficient to contradict the obvious fact that the Bible is full of the prejudices and superstitions of the primitive Bronze age men. And these are not just describing fallen me. These primitive values are attributed to Yahweh. That's the problem.



I do not recall the video above mentioning the word "hope". At times, we all hope for things to happen whether they be connected with our beliefs or not. How to do account for hope? Were you hoping to get a job with Google? I trust that hope is still alive. What must it be like for a person to have no hope at all; would they be candidates for suicide?

One of the primary logical fallacies of religious people is that that they often assert that we should believe something to be TRUE merely because we want it to be true. For example, many times in this forum folks have opposed the fact of evolution because it "gives no hope."

There is no problem understanding hope. What is there to "account for"? People hope for things that they need or desire.

Religious dogmas are not a legitimate source of hope. There are times when it might be helpful to lie to a child to give them hope (since they can't deal with reality yet), but would any sane adult lie to themselves to give themselves hope? I think not.



I have more questions than answers which is par for the course.

I look forward to them!

Great chatting,

Shine on!

:sunny:

Rose
03-06-2013, 10:06 AM
The god of the New Testament in no way resembles anything feminine he is totally masculine right down to his description as being a father. Also, a mothers love is much more of a unconditional love like that given to a child than the more fatherly conditional love exhibited by god. God's conditional love is given upon obedience; whereas the love a mother gives her child has no requirements it is unconditional.

Actually that requires a full understanding of laws.

Actually, all that is required is an ability to read and understand the words written in the Bible. The Bible is full of conditional love, even Jesus gives us the reason that his father loves him...it's because he is willing to lay down his life. Now that's what you call CONDITIONAL love...one must meet the condition before they are loved. According to the Bible the same is also true for humans to be loved by god, they must give their lives to him to be saved...once again, there is a CONDITION put on love.


John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.



Here is a link to an article I wrote on the Conditional Love of God (http://godandbutterfly.net/2012/11/02/the-conditional-love-of-god/#more-1593).

All the best,
Rose

Richard Amiel McGough
03-06-2013, 11:06 AM
The guy who wrote this page (http://www.isitso.org/guide/rood.html) exposing the errors, lies, and failed prophecies of Michael Rood noted that his followers are perfect examples of how the religiously deluded resist any change no matter how strong the evidence:
When Rood's predictions of a great war in the Mid-East to begin in the fall of 2000 failed, I was convinced this would barely slow down his ability to gather new followers and keep his old ones. My conclusion was correct. Although a number of fringe supporters may have decided to no longer be affiliated with his ministry, a significant proportion of those who had invested most heavily into his teachings appear to be undaunted in their enthusiasm. And thus he continues to gather crowds to his seminars around the country, and find buyers for his books and tapes to this day.
It is not for no reason that P. T. Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute.

Here's another expose (http://www.seekgod.ca/rood.htm) that reveals the gross deception put forth by Michael Rood. He's a BLATANT LIAR. He claims he is a Jew. He is not a Jew. It's how he tries to deceive gullible people.

Timmy
03-06-2013, 11:18 AM
Richard and Shashana:icon_hello:


ABOUT THE $66,000,000,000.00 QUESTION I HAVE BEEN AT A LOSS FOR WORDS TO ANSWER IN TERMS YOU PREFER
...but, by my Bubblicious i'll find a way to frame it right.

At least this ain't no Meckzerkin stant-hoff.

The question should not be asked, "So, why do you receive it without question?" because you were told I do not do that...and that will be explained further, too.

Note the answer in my cognitively dissonant response to you, Richard...the one before "Dust in the Wind."
At its conclusion, i said once you know how, you don't question why, though you do question the answers already given as to why.

Well, this answer is alot like that, but it is one more step removed.

Once you know the Who, Thee Who who knows you, you quit asking how, but ever wonder about the why...:icon_hello: Hi again R&R,

I just got done reading the above, and that last statement was a bald faced lie. I not only question humans, but God even more.

Thank you for providing this forum so we all might come out from our hazy misconception, being able to look back on what we thought we were saying or what we thought we thought we were saying...in short, this place in cyberspace, you have given something nobody to date has done, in the openess and banter never shutting anyone out who might have something good to add unless they are seen to be spammers or delusional without remedy.

Both you guys are great, and the big Q? Looks like the ante just went up another bill...

THE $67,000,000,000.00 QUESTION

Seriously, your websites and blogs really leave room for every possible questioning (with multiplicitous inroads and paths out) that i have at entertained to date...AND MUCH MORE.

From my perspective, the only one whom i can think of that has done better than you two in this regard, is Al Gore, when he invented the internet.
:highfive:

:hug:BIG AGAPE 2U2:flowers:


Abyss Diver Down,

Timmy

(...and thoughts keep returning to the postings at 2013 advent: 2013 UNITY IN LOVE.)

Richard Amiel McGough
03-06-2013, 11:29 AM
:icon_hello: Hi again R&R,

I just got done reading the above, and that last statement was a bald faced lie. I not only question humans, but God even more.

Thank you for providing this forum so we all might come out from our hazy misconception, being able to look back on what we thought we were saying or what we thought we thought we were saying...in short, this place in cyberspace, you have given something nobody to date has done, in the openess and banter never shutting anyone out who might have something good to add unless they are seen to be spammers or delusional without remedy.

Both you guys are great, and the big Q? Looks like the ante just went up another bill...

THE $67,000,000,000.00 QUESTION

Seriously, your websites and blogs really leave room for every possible questioning (with multiplicitous inroads and paths out) that i have at entertained to date...AND MUCH MORE.

From my perspective, the only one whom i can think of that has done better than you two in this regard, is Al Gore, when he invented the internet.
:highfive:

:hug:BIG AGAPE 2U2:flowers:


Abyss Diver Down,

Timmy

(...and thoughts keep returning to the postings at 2013 advent: 2013 UNITY IN LOVE.)
Thanks for the kind words brother-man!

:hippie:

Now if you really want your numbers to match the mystery, I think we should use the factorial:

What is the $68,000,000,000! question? That's 68 billion factorial. How big is that number? Stirling's approximation (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/StirlingsApproximation.html) gives the answer ....

770

Thanks for reminding me about my 2013 theme of Love and Unity.

Timmy
03-06-2013, 03:08 PM
The guy who wrote this page (http://www.isitso.org/guide/rood.html) exposing the errors, lies, and failed prophecies of Michael Rood noted that his followers are perfect examples of how the religiously deluded resist any change no matter how strong the evidence:
When Rood's predictions of a great war in the Mid-East to begin in the fall of 2000 failed, I was convinced this would barely slow down his ability to gather new followers and keep his old ones. My conclusion was correct. Although a number of fringe supporters may have decided to no longer be affiliated with his ministry, a significant proportion of those who had invested most heavily into his teachings appear to be undaunted in their enthusiasm. And thus he continues to gather crowds to his seminars around the country, and find buyers for his books and tapes to this day.
It is not for no reason that P. T. Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute.

Here's another expose (http://www.seekgod.ca/rood.htm) that reveals the gross deception put forth by Michael Rood. He's a BLATANT LIAR. He claims he is a Jew. He is not a Jew. It's how he tries to deceive gullible people.
Hey there backatcha' brother mann!>3

Thanks bigtime for the earlier link, and might you already see why am i trying to relate Fibbonacci sequence with Sterling, Bernoulli, and cycles of permutation??? (i need to be in silence and alone to catch a face smacking headon collision in how all this might fit together.)

Thanks for the link on this post, too...extremely telltale.

Big red nosed W.C. Fields in a movie working as a carny barker quothe an addendum to P.T. Barnum's "There's a sucker born every minute" with "Never give a sucker an even break, and never smarten up a chump."

Then he said something to this kid hanging around him while attempting to draw those crowds to the sideshow with, "Get away from me kid, you're attracting flies."


Actually, though all of M.R.'s material had been poured through 3.5 years back, it happened with the first introduction to his vids by another, who thought this guy was the shizzit. In that episode watched, noting some of the things he claimed and spoke of as "thee faith" brought vigilance to the forefront with extreme curiosity as to what this guy was actually all about.

In most of the physical evidence he shows that can be traced as factual, one needs to be very wary when he begins walking anyone beyond that point of contact. It does not take this wolf long to establish a point of departure by repeating mantras in alteration with certain aspects or facets of the evidence(s) presented.

It never was believed he is of Yakov's decent, but he tries enough to give him a C for effort.

Just now reading he was part of The Way Intl. explains alot about both: his method of presentation (even posture and body language), and the things initially questioned found throughout HIS OWN(?) books and presentations.

If you do want to start your own cult, note the ways he proceeds through texts and presentations...first fascinating, then lulling reasoning faculties...slip a new idea in...repeat.

(This is an oversimplification of the brainwashing process, but is apparent in all forms where found, with variation in environmental and mimd/body manipulation to a lesser or greater extent. (Beginning with ANONYMOUS, formulative work was all about this issue of duping the unassuming, gullible, and unsuspecting.)

As for beliefs resistant to change, a major factor in this is the issue of who feeds you &/or butters your bread...no matter on what level of human existence this occurs.

It is true physically proven repeatedly most notably in dictatorships where the leadership directly control food first, and commerce second. In cultic settings, this appears to be less pronounced but really is not. Whether government or religions, they both do it, and through these, establish "group think" where different groups of similar thinking are told things to believe with it's basis being either reward or punishment physically exampled.

Frankl has many astute observations concerning this "True Believer" mentality in relation to effects of 'culturing' any group of people. Skinner and his comrades have developed these concepts for use to the point of considering transhumanism to be the pinnacle of the human genome...but the question remains for them as to who is going to be the 'top dog' ruling the kennel???

Timmy

Richard Amiel McGough
03-06-2013, 03:36 PM
It never was believed he is of Yakov's decent, but he tries enough to give him a C for effort.

Just now reading he was part of The Way Intl. explains alot about both: his method of presentation (even posture and body language), and the things initially questioned found throughout HIS OWN(?) books and presentations.

Yeah, he started in a fringe cult (The Way) which agrees with other fringe cults (JWs, Christadelphians) that reject the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, teach annihilationism, teach that Christians should obey certain OT laws, and so on. He is transparently absurd to anyone with at least 50% vision in one eye. He bears ALL the signs of a charlatan all wrapped up in one. He prances around in his fake "Levite" robes. Let's his beard grow long and LIES about being a Jew. Blows my mind that he could fool anyone.

Here's another long expose (http://www.seekgod.ca/roodmarine.htm) of his endless lies and gross absurdities that he uses to deceive gullible believers.

He's like Peter Poppoff who was exposed by James Randi as a BLATANT LIAR using radio tricks to DECEIVE gullible IGNORANT self-deluded BELIEVERS. He had to lay low for a number of years after being exposed. But now he's BAAAAACKKK! Ripping off weak-minded believers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYdlX_Wn1K4

This is why the best thing anyone can do is to challenge believers to deal with REALITY. They need salvation from bullshit.

Richard Amiel McGough
03-06-2013, 04:02 PM
Here's what Michael Rood says (http://michaelrood.tv/about-michael-rood) about those how expose his lies:
Michael Rood, a former U.S. Marine, has declared war on every self-serving, man-made religious system on the planet. In his 1995 live seminars, “From Here to Eternity – the Book of The Revelation exposes the New World Order” Michael began revealing the many tentacled monstrosity of “Mystery Babylon” that had buried itself inside every religious system on the planet. On March 4, 1996, he commenced his final assault on fossilized “Churchianity” when he presented the groundbreaking 20-hour seminar, “The Prophetic Fulfillment of the Feasts of the LORD” which exhorted the spiritually wilting Christian world to graft back into the Hebrew roots of their faith – while exposing the man-made traditions of modern Phariseeism. Then, in 2001, Michael hit the television airwaves with “A Rood Awakening from Israel,” which enunciated “the original faith once delivered unto the Saints” and took believers to the next level in their spiritual walk – being filled with the Holy Spirit and walking in obedience to the Torah.

The immediate accolades from Christian leaders around the globe were soon followed by Mystery Babylon’s full-scale retaliation. In a concerted effort to protect its sheeple from the truth, manufactured lies were fed to ignorant false witnesses manning the long-range guns of the Internet. In the safety of anonymity and often across international borders where libel and slander go unpunished, the hordes of hell (falsely attired as sincere Christians) continue to fire barrages of deceitful propaganda upon innocent believers who are earnestly searching for truth.
I love it. I absolutely love it. The internet is destroying the livelihood of these perverse lying freaks. There is nowhere they can run. There is nowhere they can hide. They must feed like ZOMBIES by eating the dead brains of their victims. They have their reward in full. What a way live. Wow. Blows my mind.

PS: Note that Michael didn't mention anything about his FAILED DOOMSDAY PREDICTION in his little bio.

Timmy
03-06-2013, 05:46 PM
This long expose (http://www.seekgod.ca/roodmarine.htm) on mr mike is more than quite revealing, as to Rood's The Way Intl. connections. I forgot about his kLAME of being Kariate but do recall Rabbi Gordon being a guest speaker of his. Though there is not really much detail about M.R.'s occult advocaion, he significates times and season and elements of nature right up there with Jesus, which Paul in Galatians makes clear not to subject oneself with. There is mention of some sort of Biblical Astronomy zinehe had a hand in though, with quotes from it discussing various aspects of astrology.

Of the biggest laughs was his claim that the word "ROOD" actually means "Cross of Messiah" when in fact anyone who studies the word will come to realise it's phallic implications. It just makes all his faled pronouncements sound just that more rediculous, knowing he is a rood.


So, who is anybody's and everyone's favorite film-flam artist. Is it Peter Popov with his voodoo xianity miracle springwater and table salt a check (to him of course) blessing kit, a miraclegrain of mustard, or something like St. Matthews Church who only and perpetually contacts the deceived to send them cash so God can financially bless, if they follow the instructions provided in the mailing.

Yeah, the internet has been helpful exposing fraud after fraud aftr.........

Thanks Richard. I did not think Rood was very serious of a problem til the above link was read and more research proceeded from there.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5yymadwxj8


Timmy

and I have yet to watch through the evolution creation debate all the way, to write personal theory over why beliefs so resisst change, and The 68,000,000,000.00 Question.

L67
03-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Here's what Michael Rood says (http://michaelrood.tv/about-michael-rood) about those how expose his lies:
Michael Rood, a former U.S. Marine, has declared war on every self-serving, man-made religious system on the planet. In his 1995 live seminars, “From Here to Eternity – the Book of The Revelation exposes the New World Order” Michael began revealing the many tentacled monstrosity of “Mystery Babylon” that had buried itself inside every religious system on the planet. On March 4, 1996, he commenced his final assault on fossilized “Churchianity” when he presented the groundbreaking 20-hour seminar, “The Prophetic Fulfillment of the Feasts of the LORD” which exhorted the spiritually wilting Christian world to graft back into the Hebrew roots of their faith – while exposing the man-made traditions of modern Phariseeism. Then, in 2001, Michael hit the television airwaves with “A Rood Awakening from Israel,” which enunciated “the original faith once delivered unto the Saints” and took believers to the next level in their spiritual walk – being filled with the Holy Spirit and walking in obedience to the Torah.

The immediate accolades from Christian leaders around the globe were soon followed by Mystery Babylon’s full-scale retaliation. In a concerted effort to protect its sheeple from the truth, manufactured lies were fed to ignorant false witnesses manning the long-range guns of the Internet. In the safety of anonymity and often across international borders where libel and slander go unpunished, the hordes of hell (falsely attired as sincere Christians) continue to fire barrages of deceitful propaganda upon innocent believers who are earnestly searching for truth.
I love it. I absolutely love it. The internet is destroying the livelihood of these perverse lying freaks. There is nowhere they can run. There is nowhere they can hide. They must feed like ZOMBIES by eating the dead brains of their victims. They have their reward in full. What a way live. Wow. Blows my mind.

PS: Note that Michael didn't mention anything about his FAILED DOOMSDAY PREDICTION in his little bio.


lol. Like clockwork when the religious phonies get exposed they immediately take to the truth suppression conspiracy. OMG it's the Illuminati launching full scale attacks on defenders of the truth.

I take it you aren't interested in the Michael Rood everything dvd pack for the low price of $599 marked down from $985? http://michaelrood.tv/store-1/everything-michael-rood.html

Better act fast, product won't last long at those prices.

Funky1096
03-06-2013, 08:33 PM
"Yeah, he started in a fringe cult (The Way) which agrees with other fringe cults (JWs, Christadelphians) that reject the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, teach annihilationism, teach that Christians should obey certain OT laws, and so on. He is transparently absurd to anyone with at least 50% vision in one eye. He bears ALL the signs of a charlatan all wrapped up in one. He prances around in his fake "Levite" robes. Let's his beard grow long and LIES about being a Jew. Blows my mind that he could fool anyone. "

"divinity of Jesus,"

Yea he is a crack pot spirit ignore him.

"teach annihilationism"
What's that?

"teach that Christians should obey certain OT laws"

"certain"
Yea all or none of the Scriptures.

Timmy
03-07-2013, 05:11 AM
"teach annihilationism"
What's that? It says that after the resurfacing resurrection, and those judged who are granted permission to go hell, they are burned up never to exist at all anymore.


"teach that Christians should obey certain OT laws"

"certain"
Yea all or none of the Scriptures.We try and fail. In covenant with Yaweh through Yeshua, we grow into Him but never make it, so He remakes us. Because we know that we shall be like Him when we see Him as He is, we purify ourselves, working out His salvation/our own in total dependence...well, that's a thing to grow into as well.


Later or sooner,

Timmy

Richard Amiel McGough
03-07-2013, 10:31 AM
lol. Like clockwork when the religious phonies get exposed they immediately take to the truth suppression conspiracy. OMG it's the Illuminati launching full scale attacks on defenders of the truth.

I take it you aren't interested in the Michael Rood everything dvd pack for the low price of $599 marked down from $985? http://michaelrood.tv/store-1/everything-michael-rood.html

Better act fast, product won't last long at those prices.
Hey there! I am the Great and Mighty JEWISH RABBI who dresses like a Levitical Priest. I will reveal to you the BLASPHEMOUS PAGAN PRACTICES OF GENTILE CHRISTIANITY.

Look at my nice dress! Look at my gold cap! Can't you see I'm LEGITIMATE? Don't you see how I must be a JEWISH RABBI? My costume proves how very serious I am about this shit!

772

And I carry a staff like the PROPHET ELIJAH!

771

And for the low-low price of $599 I will SELL YOU GOD'S OWN TRUTH!

The one truth Michael Rood banks on .... There's a sucker born every minute.

L67
03-07-2013, 11:21 AM
LMAO!

He's pretty sad.

But for my money it doesn't get any better than Mike Murdock and Todd Coontz.

These videos illustrate how religion deludes people into false hope. These videos are well worth the time to watch. They hilarious and sad at the same time.

Here is Mike Murdock and his $1000 seed scam.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWVITd4_d0M


Here is Todd Coontz with his triple favor scam.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0s-3IELD5A

Ps 27:1
03-13-2013, 08:00 PM
Hello Steve,

I checked out your wife's website and must say she has done an excellent job (even though I am not into dolls) on her creations. I'm glad she is able to make an income off of what she loves to do.

Though I was not raised in a Christian home I too (like your wife) had a very deep sense of "God" from the time I was very small. In my mid twenties I found Jesus and consequently mapped the "God" of my childhood onto the Biblegod, my absolute assurance of his existence remained unmovable until about three years ago when I began to ask tough questions about the Bible and wholeheartedly sought to find answers. One of the first books that sparked my interest was called Thank God for Evolution written by Michael Dowd. Surprisingly, I never finished that book, but jumped over to another book on evolution by Richard Dawkins called The Greatest Show on Earth. This was only the beginning of a very interesting and unexpected journey of exploration that ended up leading me out of the Christian faith.

Those who are content to remain in their belief system - as I was all those years - will never ask the tough questions, nor seek their answers...consequently they will remain safely inside their religious boxes never venturing beyond its security. As long as you and your wife are content with where you are at there will be no pressure to move you forward, so you will remain inside the box of your belief system. If you ever begin to truly question the many problems contained within the Bible and will settle for nothing less then truth for an answer you will experience the freedom that I found. I have a blog called God and Butterfly (http://godandbutterfly.net/) which I started at the beginning of my journey to freedom, three years ago...it is an active journal of my metamorphosis from the cocoon of Christianity to the freedom of a butterfly. As I said, when I began my journey three years ago I never in my wildest dreams expected to end up an atheist, but here I am.

All the best,
Rose

Hello Rose,

Sorry for the late response. I have this thing called a job that keeps interfering with my "free" time. Plus, I usually do the grocery shopping and supper cooking and anything else that pleases my master. :eek: You see, I really am a liberated male. :D Speaking of boxes. I do get in one every work day and it takes me to another box where I make more boxes to put in these things I clean, inspect, and stamp. :D These things (flexible busses) that look like Hebrew letters, are used to carry very high loads of power that everybody uses everyday. My masters that work in this box with me, tell me that they have plans for me to become a "master flash welder" (exact words). Flash welders use very high loads of power to melt and weld different metals like stainless steel, copper, and aluminum all at once. Most people, even welders, will tell you this can't be done. Have you ever seen a transformer explode? This is kind of like what the flash welder sounds like, only it lasts for several seconds while the metals are melting and tons of pressure force them together. I'll try to find or make a video of it.

Thing is, Rose. This new job I have fits several literal dreams I've had. I've also experienced many synchronicities every day that confirm God's presence with me. I have a very intimate relationship with my God. I also gave him permission years ago to do whatever it takes to draw me back to him when I wander and stray. My favorite hymn when I was a young boy in Panama City, Panama, was this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ93HVuYd5Y

I wasn't always a good boy and I got branded real good, twice there.:lol: Twice in my right leg. The one required 18 stitches, I believe. :eek: At the time, I thought I was going to lose my leg. Crazy thing was that it was April Fools' Day and my dad had earlier "fooled" me about having a cut on my leg. It was a sobering lesson for him about the words we let out of our mouths.

792793

I use cut up rags (mostly t-shirts) in my cleaning. That "Branded" shirt showed up today after I had explained to my immediate supervisor about living in Panama because my parents were missionaries. There is much more to go with that synchronicity, but I'll save it for my $1.01 thread.

I have no real desire to get into an evolution debate with you or Richard. I'll just point you to Walter Veith and let him talk. http://walterveith.com/

If you so desire, you can follow my onging story in the $1.01 thread and hopefully it will become clearer to you why I can't take the path you have chosen, even though I was somewhat tempted at times.

Sincerely,

Steve

Edited to change "one in each leg" to "twice in my right leg". The smaller scar was hard to find like the saying goes, "Time heals all wounds". (And time wounds all heels. :lol:) The 2 in one leg makes the synchronism even stronger.