RIGHTEOUSNESS

[David M]

Righteousness is most important. I have listed a fifth of all the occurrences of the word in the KJV Bible.
I expect this will invoke comment, but please do not ask me questions which I shall not answer here. I have stated my opinion and that is it. Please state your opinion on what you think of the subject and not of the person giving their opinion. God is not for lessening His standard and neither am I on this subject. There can be no compromising to accept a lesser standard than perfect righteousness. We have been shown the way to achieve perfect righteousness and there is no other way. That is not just my opinion, it is the teaching from Jesus who is the only way to getting eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Is righteousness the same as morality? Righteousness is essential; it incorporates morality. Without perfect righteousness it is impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11:6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. We cannot be moral without righteousness.

God only accepts perfect righteousness and his Son proved that the flesh is capable of perfect righteousness. The spiritual covering (through baptism which is an essential part) of Jesus provided by his sacrifice and covering for sin is the way Jesus presents the faithful to His Heavenly Father. Without the covering of Jesus, not one person can be saved, because no–one is seen as righteous in God’s sight. Abraham and others whose faith was counted to them as righteousness were all imperfect, but God would accept their righteousness, which would be covered later by the covering of Jesus in whom they saw in the future promises of God and believed. Since baptism was not introduced until Jesus came, then baptism was not necessary for Abraham and all those who died under the old covenant. However, since Jesus said that baptism was necessary to "fulfill all righteousness", then it is quite clearly very necessary. Not to do so is not fulfilling all righteousness.

In the same way that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, no-one is perfectly righteous before God. If God has the standard by which He will not accept anything less than perfect, then that explains why God will disregard anyone who does not come to him in perfect righteousness. Anyone who does not have the covering of perfect righteousness is not going to be saved. Only people who will be perfectly righteous will be in the kingdom of God and is the only way God’s Glory can fill the earth. That is why sinful people cannot be in the kingdom of God for they would have fallen short of God’s Glory and God’s glory must be seen in everything.

Righteousness is so important I have listed about a fifth of the 306 occurrences of the word in the 289 verses (KJV) containing the word and it is evident from Genesis to Revelation that righteousness is the key to acceptability. These verses give us the reason for God’s judgment based on righteousness. Jesus is the perfect ensample of a righteous man (or woman) and anything less is to be rejected.

God’s love is extended to the righteous and that is why He gave His only begotten Son to provide the perfect covering as the means by which God can love men and women who are sinful. This is something the righteous believer in Jesus accepts and can see the loving provision God has supplied, but the unbeliever will not accept this and will look for every reason to accuse God of being unfair, biased, barbaric and a bronze-aged god. God hates that which is abominable and anything which is abominable will get rejected. It is impossible for the abominable and for reprobates to be judged righteous.

Jesus said “let him who is without sin cast the first stone”; and none of us could have cast a stone had we been there. We have to answer for ourselves and decide whether we want to attain to the righteous of Jesus in order to make us acceptable to God. There is only one way to be saved and that is through having the covering of Jesus by which he presents the faithful as perfect before his Heavenly Father. There is no other way of making the grade. If God is going to reject everything that is less than perfect, then it is up to us as individuals to do what is necessary to be saved. We have to ask ourselves; can I be perfectly righteous before God? Do I want to be perfectly righteous before God? How we answer those questions determines our future after death. Do we want to receive the gift of eternal life or reject it?

A study of righteousness in the Bible is key to understanding the requirements of God and His judgment based on that.

Gen. 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Gen. 30:33 So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come,
Deut. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Deut. 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
Lev. 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Deut. 24:13 In any case thou shalt deliver him the pledge again when the sun goeth down, that he may sleep in his own raiment, and bless thee: and it shall be righteousness unto thee before the LORD thy God.
1 Sam. 26:23 The LORD render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness: for the LORD delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed.
2 Sam. 22:21 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
1 Kings 3:6 And Solomon said, Thou hast showed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
1 Kings 8:32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous , to give him according to his righteousness.
Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Job 35:8 Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man.
Psalm 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
Psalm 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.
Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Prov. 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous:
Prov. 12:28 In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Prov. 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
Isa. 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa. 32:1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
Isa. 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa. 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa. 51:8 but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.
Isa. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa. 62:1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
Jer. 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.
Jer. 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Ezek. 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
Zech. 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
Matt. 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
Acts 17: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 5: 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of rrighteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
2 Cor. 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Cor. 6: 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
Gal. 2: 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Eph. 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Phil. 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in rrighteousness:
2 Tim. 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Heb. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb. 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Rev. 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

David

[duxrow]

Jer. 33:15 KJV margin "tzidkenu" -- The redemptive names I've memorized in order: JEHOVAH Jireh, Rapha, Shalom, Tzidkenu, Roi, Shammah, Qaddish, Sabaoth, Nissi, (His banner over me is love..) Pleases me to remember the 3 groups of 3.. amen? :thumb:

[David M]

Here is an appropriate quotation on the subject of righteousness. This has been quoted on various websites, so I am not certain of the origin, although when I first heard it, it was said to be an ancient Chinese proverb.





If there is righteousness in the heart,
there will be beauty in the character.

If there is beauty in the character,
there will be harmony in the home.

If there is harmony in the home,
there will be order in the nation.

If there is order in the nation,
there will be peace in the world.

So let it be

[Mystykal]

Is righteousness the same as morality? Righteousness is essential; it incorporates morality. Without perfect righteousness it is impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11:6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. We cannot be moral without righteousness.

This concept is lost on all those who insist that GOD is a figment of the mind. It is this characteristic which is lost in the world's attempt to create a "just" world. Try as hard as we might, there can be no peace without peace! There can be no love without love!

"...For God IS Love!"

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Is righteousness the same as morality? Righteousness is essential; it incorporates morality. Without perfect righteousness it is impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11:6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. We cannot be moral without righteousness.

This concept is lost on all those who insist that GOD is a figment of the mind. It is this characteristic which is lost in the world's attempt to create a "just" world. Try as hard as we might, there can be no peace without peace! There can be no love without love!

"...For God IS Love!"
Did you just say that the concept of "righteousness" is lost on those who are not theists? That's totally backwards. Think of all the evil done in the name of religious "righteousness." Theism tends to retard moral progress because it perverts moral judgment by saying that people are born sinners who deserve eternal torment in hell for not believing the correct dogma and other insane crap. Real morality has absolutely nothing to do with any "God."

The idea that "God is love" makes God look good because we all know what love is, whereas no one even knows if God is just a "figment of the mind" or not. Everyone knows what love is and knows it is real and can demonstrate it, whereas the idea of "God" remains a speculation that people debate and have never been able to prove.

[Mystykal]

Did you just say that the concept of "righteousness" is lost on those who are not theists? That's totally backwards. Think of all the evil done in the name of religious "righteousness." Theism tends to retard moral progress because it perverts moral judgment by saying that people are born sinners who deserve eternal torment in hell for not believing the correct dogma and other insane crap. Real morality has absolutely nothing to do with any "God."

The idea that "God is love" makes God look good because we all know what love is, whereas no one even knows if God is just a "figment of the mind" or not. Everyone knows what love is and knows it is real and can demonstrate it, whereas the idea of "God" remains a speculation that people debate and have never been able to prove.

----
Sigh! ...
You once again are not reading what I said. I never said that "non-Theists'" are the ONLY ones who this idea of righteousness is "lost on". Do not attempt to blame all the things done in the name of religion on those who actually "believe" in the system as laid out in the Word. Your examples of "all the evil done in the name of religious righteousness" is not the same as saying that religion - true religion - has caused all the evil seen in religious circles. You are mixing apples and oranges. Denominational evil is not caused by theism as a concept. You know that, yet you act like the two things - religion and theism - cannot be separated.

You insist on a type of logic that lumps all spiritual things into the garbage bin of institutionalized religion! I assume you are smarter than that! the truth of any system stands on its own. Period. Theism does NOT in and of itself say that people are born sinners! Only Catholics and their counter-parts in Calvinism/Baptist and Lutheranism state such nonesense. And the Bible does not teach that as a general theme. The "all have sinned" idea of the Bible is one of individual choice and not one of birth. Although many theologians preach such rubbish! And as far as going to hell. You know that the word hell in the Bible comes from different words which cannot be translated as "an everlasting place of torment" as the Catholics claim! I hope that you will stop assuming your "Christian" dogmas are actually Christian and realize that all the crap pawned off as religious Bible truth is anything but.

As to the "GOD is love" - idea the very fact that GOD IS love and love IS a tangible thing in life if we assume what we feel and experience to be "love" is real; it means that EVERY time you experience "Love" that is experiencing the "GOD model". For some reason you act like GOD must forever live in the immaginations of ignorant illogical minds. If love is real then by inference GOD is real since GOD IS Love! You might call that circular logic... But it still remains that if GOD can be defined as what we experience as love then the GOD model is real as experienced through love - regardless of the naysayers.

Namaste,

Mystykal

[Richard Amiel McGough]

----
Sigh! ...
You once again are not reading what I said. I never said that "non-Theists'" are the ONLY ones who this idea of righteousness is "lost on". Do not attempt to blame all the things done in the name of religion on those who actually "believe" in the system as laid out in the Word. Your examples of "all the evil done in the name of religious righteousness" is not the same as saying that religion - true religion - has caused all the evil seen in religious circles. You are mixing apples and oranges. Denominational evil is not caused by theism as a concept. You know that, yet you act like the two things - religion and theism - cannot be separated.

You insist on a type of logic that lumps all spiritual things into the garbage bin of institutionalized religion! I assume you are smarter than that! the truth of any system stands on its own. Period. Theism does NOT in and of itself say that people are born sinners! Only Catholics and their counter-parts in Calvinism/Baptist and Lutheranism state such nonesense. And the Bible does not teach that as a general theme. The "all have sinned" idea of the Bible is one of individual choice and not one of birth. Although many theologians preach such rubbish! And as far as going to hell. You know that the word hell in the Bible comes from different words which cannot be translated as "an everlasting place of torment" as the Catholics claim! I hope that you will stop assuming your "Christian" dogmas are actually Christian and realize that all the crap pawned off as religious Bible truth is anything but.

Hey there Mystykal,

I'm sorry there has been a confusion. I wasn't trying to frustrate you. As far as I can tell, I read and understood you perfectly. I never said you said righteousness was "lost on" ONLY non-theists. That's irrelevant. The relevant point is that you would suggest that non-theists are a group that could be characterized that way at all. I consider that quite absurd. Non-theists are no less "righteous" than any other group.

And when it comes to "not reading what I said" - that's what you do when you say that I "lump all spiritual things into the garbage bin of institutionalized religion." You should know that I don't do that since I have frequently told you that I am open to spiritual things. I have told you many times that I am actually inclined towards the idea that Mind is the Ground of Being, which is a spiritual point of view (though I don't claim to know it is true).

It seems like you think the Bible is true but that all the interpretations of the theologians, Catholics, Baptists and Lutherans is just a bunch of "nonesense." That seems very odd since the Bible is their book! They are the ones who compiled it and passed it down through the ages. If their understanding of the book is wrong, why trust their book in the first place?

We agree that hell is a poor translation of Sheol since it appears that the Jews did not believe it was a place of torment. The same cannot be said for the New Testament terms like Hades and Gehenna since they are both seen as including torment. The doctrine of hell cannot be discounted merely on such word studies without proving that all Christianity is total bullshit since the vast majority of Christians throughout history have firmly taught the doctrine of eternal torment in hell. If they were all wrong on such a fundamental point, then why believe anything they said -- or wrote, such as the Bible? This is the primary problem - you are rejecting pretty much everything in Christian history except their book. That seems inconsistent to me.


As to the "GOD is love" - idea the very fact that GOD IS love and love IS a tangible thing in life if we assume what we feel and experience to be "love" is real; it means that EVERY time you experience "Love" that is experiencing the "GOD model". For some reason you act like GOD must forever live in the immaginations of ignorant illogical minds. If love is real then by inference GOD is real since GOD IS Love! You might call that circular logic... But it still remains that if GOD can be defined as what we experience as love then the GOD model is real as experienced through love - regardless of the naysayers.

It's not circular. Your logic is fine - but I'm not so sure about your premise. Why should I believe that God is love? The same book shows that God is not anything like love in any way at all. He killed every person on the planet except 8 in the ark. He ordered every man, woman, and child to be slaughtered except for 32,000 sexy virgins. You know all this. So how can you say that "God is love"? It seems like you are simply ignoring everything in the Bible that contradicts that claim.

I trust you understand that these are real problems that Christians have had to deal with for 2000 years. Marcion tried to solve the problem of the OT God by rejecting the OT, but that can't be done without destroying the NT. So most Christians just ignore the OT and pretend that it doesn't really matter because the NT reveals God's "true nature" in Christ. But that implies that Christ commanded the genocide and kidnapping of the virgins, and that's just not right. So the problem remains. Don't blame me - I'm just the messenger.

Great chatting!

Richard

[Mystykal]

Hey there Mystykal,

I'm sorry there has been a confusion. I wasn't trying to frustrate you. As far as I can tell, I read and understood you perfectly. I never said you said righteousness was "lost on" ONLY non-theists. That's irrelevant. The relevant point is that you would suggest that non-theists are a group that could be characterized that way at all. I consider that quite absurd. Non-theists are no less "righteous" than any other group.

And when it comes to "not reading what I said" - that's what you do when you say that I "lump all spiritual things into the garbage bin of institutionalized religion." You should know that I don't do that since I have frequently told you that I am open to spiritual things. I have told you many times that I am actually inclined towards the idea that Mind is the Ground of Being, which is a spiritual point of view (though I don't claim to know it is true).

It seems like you think the Bible is true but that all the interpretations of the theologians, Catholics, Baptists and Lutherans is just a bunch of "nonesense." That seems very odd since the Bible is their book! They are the ones who compiled it and passed it down through the ages. If their understanding of the book is wrong, why trust their book in the first place?

We agree that hell is a poor translation of Sheol since it appears that the Jews did not believe it was a place of torment. The same cannot be said for the New Testament terms like Hades and Gehenna since they are both seen as including torment. The doctrine of hell cannot be discounted merely on such word studies without proving that all Christianity is total bullshit since the vast majority of Christians throughout history have firmly taught the doctrine of eternal torment in hell. If they were all wrong on such a fundamental point, then why believe anything they said -- or wrote, such as the Bible? This is the primary problem - you are rejecting pretty much everything in Christian history except their book. That seems inconsistent to me.


It's not circular. Your logic is fine - but I'm not so sure about your premise. Why should I believe that God is love? The same book shows that God is not anything like love in any way at all. He killed every person on the planet except 8 in the ark. He ordered every man, woman, and child to be slaughtered except for 32,000 sexy virgins. You know all this. So how can you say that "God is love"? It seems like you are simply ignoring everything in the Bible that contradicts that claim.

I trust you understand that these are real problems that Christians have had to deal with for 2000 years. Marcion tried to solve the problem of the OT God by rejecting the OT, but that can't be done without destroying the NT. So most Christians just ignore the OT and pretend that it doesn't really matter because the NT reveals God's "true nature" in Christ. But that implies that Christ commanded the genocide and kidnapping of the virgins, and that's just not right. So the problem remains. Don't blame me - I'm just the messenger.

Great chatting!

Richard

Hi Richard:

Thanks for the response....
Let me start by saying that I guess I do reject most if not all of the post 200AD perspectives on Christian theology and dogma. But that in my opinion is because the corrupt nature of institutionalized Christianity by that time was at a level which could not be seen as truly Christian. The real true believers were being hunted down and slaughtered. So by then the real "Christian" had gone under ground.

With that preface....

Your contention that ALL early Christians believed in a real hell of torment is false. There is no evidence that the early apostles or Jesus the Christ had such interwoven ideas when they spoke of Gehenna a REAL garbage dump which is still in existence today! The idea of fire associated with hell came several decades after Christ and was solidified in the erruptions of Pompeii.

So, I also do not believe that the "Christians" of the third Century AD brought us the Dead Sea scrolls. So that the ideas presented in the New Testament which contradict on the surface the ideas found in the Dead Sea Scrolls should be re-examined. Jesus the Christ said, "Search the Scriptures"... OT! The NT is not reliable without the OT. And the whole Bible is a book which I believe holds deeper esoteric meanings than most Christians realize. It is a gateway to the other side so to speak. "The words that I speak unto thee they are Spirit and they are Life everlasting." -Jesus ' In the beginning was the Word.... And the Word was GOD!". "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among men...."

The idea hidden in these lines of the book of John elude to the fact that the GOD model is one hidden in words. Specific words which when understood open up the mysteries of life. It gives us the understanding which today is known as science. And beyond the known scientific world the Word of GOD gives us a path to eternal everlasting life. The elixer of youth! It is this mysterious quality which is found in ALL the Words of GOD not just the Bible per se. So that as we study the ancient texts and through the meditative process we come face to face with the Word which is embodied in Jesus the Christ. So that the Bible is a gateway to truth. It was not created by "Christians" and it was not destroyed by the clergy of the day... But the esoteric secrets were preserved in a way which even after the popes tried to re-write large portions of the Bible the codes and holographs still persisted.

GOD is Love....
even after all the bad that man has done to GOD... to GOD's world, nature, humanity, animals etc... GOD still granted all to be saved if they just would get on the "ark". But only eight people did! Now that story is a story on a whole lot of levels! So don't get lost in the minutia about how did GOD get all types of living things on the ark and how did eight people re-populate the earth?.... The idea of the story is that GOD as love kept man alive! In an ark which represents the body of man. "Know ye not that your body is the temple of GOD? And that the Spirit of GOD dwells in you?" This notion of man and GOD dwelling together is the key to the flood story. The specifics of the story on the surface cannot answer the deeper hidden meanings which were preserved for later generations to understand and use. The story is simple. But the hidden codes and meanings of those codes are profound. So while people scoff at the "flood story" the formula for knowing GOD personally and in real time is hidden there! "You will find me when you seach for me with all of your heart." Many have lost hope in finding GOD simply because they did not take the time to dig in the right places and in the right ways.

In martial arts you only begin to learn correct technique when the Grandmaster is present. Everything else is just a joke! So it is with the Word of GOD. Until the Holy Spirit is present all attempts to understand the hidden truth of eternal life and of GOD is futile! All your searching is a waste!
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You said....It seems like you think the Bible is true but that all the interpretations of the theologians, Catholics, Baptists and Lutherans is just a bunch of "nonesense." That seems very odd since the Bible is their book!
--------
Yes I do! And that is because the Bible is GOD's book! Corrupted by theologians! Dispised by the clergy! Burned as rubbish by the prelates! But the Bible still persists to this day to give us little bits of wisdom into the mind of GOD.

"Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus..." Welcome aboard my ark!

Namaste,

Mystykal

[Mystykal]

Hi Richard:

I wanted to address the opening remark by itself...

You said, "I'm sorry there has been a confusion. I wasn't trying to frustrate you. As far as I can tell, I read and understood you perfectly. I never said you said righteousness was "lost on" ONLY non-theists. That's irrelevant. The relevant point is that you would suggest that non-theists are a group that could be characterized that way at all. I consider that quite absurd. Non-theists are no less "righteous" than any other group."
===========
What I meant to say is that the CONCEPT of Righteousness is lost - has no meaning - to non-theists because the CONCEPT is one which requires goodness to be related to a Supreme standard of right and wrong - which non-theist thinkers do not really hold that notion at all.
So yes I do clump all theists into one group when it comes to these theological ideas. They are not alone however! I would say that most theists have so disregarded the ethical nature of Love as to demand from their GOD model a malevolent Deity which is foaming at the mouth for fresh blood. Even Jesus used the analogy at the last supper. "This is my body which is broken for you... Take this cup it is my blood which is spilled for you!." So that we as "Christians" fail to recognize the deeper hidden meaning of symbolism and begin to act as if the blood and guts are real and necessary for salvation purposes. The secret is that the life essence is hidden in the blood and the union of the blood with the body creates "soul essence". This concept is lost on most Christians. As with the statement of Christ about giving your "cloak" (underware) also. Nudity is the symbolism. Taking the next step in the union of heart and mind is the reality! Let nothing stand in your way!

Namaste,

Mystykal

[Mystykal]

Righteousness is most important. I have listed a fifth of all the occurrences of the word in the KJV Bible.
I expect this will invoke comment, but please do not ask me questions which I shall not answer here. I have stated my opinion and that is it. Please state your opinion on what you think of the subject and not of the person giving their opinion. God is not for lessening His standard and neither am I on this subject. There can be no compromising to accept a lesser standard than perfect righteousness. We have been shown the way to achieve perfect righteousness and there is no other way. That is not just my opinion, it is the teaching from Jesus who is the only way to getting eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Is righteousness the same as morality? Righteousness is essential; it incorporates morality. Without perfect righteousness it is impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11:6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. We cannot be moral without righteousness.

God only accepts perfect righteousness and his Son proved that the flesh is capable of perfect righteousness. The spiritual covering (through baptism which is an essential part) of Jesus provided by his sacrifice and covering for sin is the way Jesus presents the faithful to His Heavenly Father. Without the covering of Jesus, not one person can be saved, because no–one is seen as righteous in God’s sight. Abraham and others whose faith was counted to them as righteousness were all imperfect, but God would accept their righteousness, which would be covered later by the covering of Jesus in whom they saw in the future promises of God and believed. Since baptism was not introduced until Jesus came, then baptism was not necessary for Abraham and all those who died under the old covenant. However, since Jesus said that baptism was necessary to "fulfill all righteousness", then it is quite clearly very necessary. Not to do so is not fulfilling all righteousness.

In the same way that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, no-one is perfectly righteous before God. If God has the standard by which He will not accept anything less than perfect, then that explains why God will disregard anyone who does not come to him in perfect righteousness. Anyone who does not have the covering of perfect righteousness is not going to be saved. Only people who will be perfectly righteous will be in the kingdom of God and is the only way God’s Glory can fill the earth. That is why sinful people cannot be in the kingdom of God for they would have fallen short of God’s Glory and God’s glory must be seen in everything.

Righteousness is so important I have listed about a fifth of the 306 occurrences of the word in the 289 verses (KJV) containing the word and it is evident from Genesis to Revelation that righteousness is the key to acceptability. These verses give us the reason for God’s judgment based on righteousness. Jesus is the perfect ensample of a righteous man (or woman) and anything less is to be rejected.

God’s love is extended to the righteous and that is why He gave His only begotten Son to provide the perfect covering as the means by which God can love men and women who are sinful. This is something the righteous believer in Jesus accepts and can see the loving provision God has supplied, but the unbeliever will not accept this and will look for every reason to accuse God of being unfair, biased, barbaric and a bronze-aged god. God hates that which is abominable and anything which is abominable will get rejected. It is impossible for the abominable and for reprobates to be judged righteous.

Jesus said “let him who is without sin cast the first stone”; and none of us could have cast a stone had we been there. We have to answer for ourselves and decide whether we want to attain to the righteous of Jesus in order to make us acceptable to God. There is only one way to be saved and that is through having the covering of Jesus by which he presents the faithful as perfect before his Heavenly Father. There is no other way of making the grade. If God is going to reject everything that is less than perfect, then it is up to us as individuals to do what is necessary to be saved. We have to ask ourselves; can I be perfectly righteous before God? Do I want to be perfectly righteous before God? How we answer those questions determines our future after death. Do we want to receive the gift of eternal life or reject it?

A study of righteousness in the Bible is key to understanding the requirements of God and His judgment based on that.

Gen. 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Gen. 30:33 So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come,
Deut. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Deut. 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
Lev. 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Deut. 24:13 In any case thou shalt deliver him the pledge again when the sun goeth down, that he may sleep in his own raiment, and bless thee: and it shall be righteousness unto thee before the LORD thy God.
1 Sam. 26:23 The LORD render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness: for the LORD delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed.
2 Sam. 22:21 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
1 Kings 3:6 And Solomon said, Thou hast showed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
1 Kings 8:32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous , to give him according to his righteousness.
Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Job 35:8 Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man.
Psalm 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
Psalm 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.
Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Prov. 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous:
Prov. 12:28 In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Prov. 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
Isa. 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa. 32:1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
Isa. 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa. 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa. 51:8 but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.
Isa. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa. 62:1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
Jer. 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.
Jer. 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Ezek. 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
Zech. 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
Matt. 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
Acts 17: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 5: 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of rrighteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
2 Cor. 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Cor. 6: 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
Gal. 2: 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Eph. 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Phil. 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in rrighteousness:
2 Tim. 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Heb. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb. 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Rev. 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

David

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I want to add some little insight as to why this particular subject of Righteousness by Faith, is so divisive especially among Christians! From the beginning of time there has always been a dualism to life - to the creation of the earth and to all things seen and unseen. This duality has been tagged as light and dark - good/evil etc. The problem with such simplistic definitions is that the real issue - Righteousness - gets lost in the shuffle. The ideas embodied in words must be correctly understood in order for there to be unity of understanding. If we constantly change the meaning of a word or a concept within the word structure then we are ignoring or overlooking all the subtle meanings of the ideas which those words hold.

The Bible is not a history book per se. It is not a book which tells stories per se. It is not meant to be a scientific exposition on world affairs or anything else. The Bible is designed and presented as "The Word of GOD unto salvation". The main theme of the Bible is how to obtain Righteousness and there by obtain eternal life. Immortality, contrary to most Christian theologian's thinking - is not automatic. Immortality is a specific end result which is only given to the "few". Hence, "Many are called but few are chosen." Unless saving faith is cultivated in the daily life of a person there can be no Righteousness hence no eternal life for that person. This is how the Bible presents those issues which have driven the church leaders to obscure the facts and teach doctrines of devils in place of the straight Word of GOD. "Beware lest men decieve you with cunning fables..." "For we have not believed in fables and myths but were eyewitnesses to the majesty of GOD in Christ."

There comes a time in everyones' life when the choices which bend the path we walk takes a turn for better or for worse. Towards the light or towards the darkness of night. Nothing can stop the process. If you stand still you are still choosing and as such the path will move you on. Forward... Destiny is not optional! The way to eternal life is knowable. the attributes of saving faith produce the reward! The rules demand a result! "Study to show thyself approved. A workman that need not be ashamed in the day of reckoning." When Thoth/Hermes/Michael open the Book and question you - What will you answer?...

Take it or leave it! Eternal life is based on our choices. "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." Deuteronomy 30:19 Choose life! for why should you perish? John 3:16

[David M]

Hello Mystical
I like your replies. I have highlighted just one of your comments which you will see from the extract I have copied below, that I was taken to task for making the same comment.


Immortality, contrary to most Christian theologian's thinking - is not automatic. Immortality is a specific end result which is only given to the "few". Hence, "Many are called but few are chosen." Unless saving faith is cultivated in the daily life of a person there can be no Righteousness hence no eternal life for that person. This is how the Bible presents those issues which have driven the church leaders to obscure the facts and teach doctrines of devils in place of the straight Word of GOD. "Beware lest men decieve you with cunning fables..." "For we have not believed in fables and myths but were eyewitnesses to the majesty of GOD in Christ."





Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
Please tell me what the criteria are by which Jesus says "few will find the narrow way". That should put both of us on alert. Few does not mean the masses. Any church representing the masses, must be in doubt. Just tell me the criteria by which you know the masses I am referring to are all going to find the narrow way? Stop concentrating on me and get down to reasoning why.

Yes I know what the verse means and I have agreed with you.
My focus is on you because you assert so many things. You act like you are some authority figure on the matter. Just like you claim "most" of Christianity is wrong. You have no basis to make such a bold claim.


I am pleased to see you hold a similar view as me on this subject of " the few"and indeed on the subject of righteousness. I wonder what else in the Bible we have agreement on. I look forward to you starting your own threads from which we can learn the truth of the Bible message.

All the best

David

[Mystykal]

Hello Mystical
I like your replies. I have highlighted just one of your comments which you will see from the extract I have copied below, that I was taken to task for making the same comment.






I am pleased to see you hold a similar view as me on this subject of " the few"and indeed on the subject of righteousness. I wonder what else in the Bible we have agreement on. I look forward to you starting your own threads from which we can learn the truth of the Bible message.

All the best

David

Hi Dave:
Thank you for the kind words! I rarely find anyone who takes the time to look at all the information all the time. I came to the realization of the True Way by a very unlikely source. I am still researching the basis for all things spiritual... Maybe one day I will start my own thread here dunno. I hope that you will continue on the path set before you...which is the knowledge and wisdom of the True GOD the Mystery Spirit.

Namaste,
Mystykal