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Greatest I am
09-03-2012, 06:03 PM
When you become a God, will you use evil the way God does?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I don’t know your view of evil or how you explain it but much of scriptures say that at some future in heaven, we will become as God and to me that would mean that we all inherit a new earth. Anything less would be less than what Satan has been given. Dominion over the earth. God would hardly give man less. I assume here that like humans, God would want his children to reach his level of thought and responsibilities and then some. God would then become God of Gods.

Believers, should have no problem imagining the scenario above and should be able to show why they would allow evil to exist on their own make believe world.

No definitive conclusion has ever been presented and accepted by any majority as to why God created and uses evil. To evolutionary theists, it must exist to further the survival of the fittest and what keeps man evolving. Without it we would face a greater evil. Extinction.

To some theists, it is to test us and weed out the unworthy or less fit. Yet many theists not believe in evolution even as God weeds out the less fit. Causing heavenly evolution, so to speak.

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality. To me, within evolution, evil is good. Somewhat the way a God would think. I would not get rid of it as I see it’s ultimate requirement and in that sense, evil is good as it serves the greater good. Evolution. Theistic evolutionists agree.

Free will is not a valid argument if we must do evil to survive. Evolution demands both evil/competition and good/cooperation.

Would you allow evil to exist on your fictitious world, like God or nature does here in our real world?

If yes, why would you keep and use evil?

If no, how would your world work if you did somehow get rid of evil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234&feature=youtu.be


Regards
DL

Rose
09-03-2012, 07:17 PM
When you become a God, will you use evil the way God does?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I don’t know your view of evil or how you explain it but much of scriptures say that at some future in heaven, we will become as God and to me that would mean that we all inherit a new earth. Anything less would be less than what Satan has been given. Dominion over the earth. God would hardly give man less. I assume here that like humans, God would want his children to reach his level of thought and responsibilities and then some. God would then become God of Gods.

Believers, should have no problem imagining the scenario above and should be able to show why they would allow evil to exist on their own make believe world.

No definitive conclusion has ever been presented and accepted by any majority as to why God created and uses evil. To evolutionary theists, it must exist to further the survival of the fittest and what keeps man evolving. Without it we would face a greater evil. Extinction.

To some theists, it is to test us and weed out the unworthy or less fit. Yet many theists not believe in evolution even as God weeds out the less fit. Causing heavenly evolution, so to speak.

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem reconciling evil with reality. To me, within evolution, evil is good. Somewhat the way a God would think. I would not get rid of it as I see it’s ultimate requirement and in that sense, evil is good as it serves the greater good. Evolution. Theistic evolutionists agree.

Free will is not a valid argument if we must do evil to survive. Evolution demands both evil/competition and good/cooperation.

Would you allow evil to exist on your fictitious world, like God or nature does here in our real world?

If yes, why would you keep and use evil?

If no, how would your world work if you did somehow get rid of evil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234&feature=youtu.be


Regards
DL

Hi DL,

I take it you believe in some type of theistic god, since you say you are a Gnostic Christian?

If so, does God need evil in order to exist?

If not, then why is it a requirement in order for anything else to exist?


Take care,
Rose

Greatest I am
09-04-2012, 06:02 AM
Hi DL,

I take it you believe in some type of theistic god, since you say you are a Gnostic Christian?

If so, does God need evil in order to exist?

If not, then why is it a requirement in order for anything else to exist?


Take care,
Rose

Let me tell you of the Godhead I know of and then I will give a direct answer to your questions.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

------------------------

"If so, does God need evil in order to exist? "

FMPOV, yes. Both God and man.
God can only exist in the minds of men, we create him. If we do not have the evil that we create when we compete and create losers, we would go extinct and so would any notions of God. We cannot help but do evil if we wish to love. Evolution and life demand it.

-----------------------

"If not, then why is it a requirement in order for anything else to exist?"

Life feeds on life. The desire to existence forces us to consume resources. We have to compete for these resources. No choice. Either we exist and created death for other life, or they destroy us and takes over.

We have no choice but to compete and do evil from the POV of the losers we create.

Regards
DL

Rose
09-04-2012, 01:31 PM
Let me tell you of the Godhead I know of and then I will give a direct answer to your questions.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

Hi DL,

Thank you for filling me in on where you are coming from...:signthankspin:It helps me to understand your perception of "God".


The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

------------------------

I think our views are similar, though I would not call myself a Gnostic. At this point in my journey I am very much open to receiving truth wherever I find it. My beliefs swing toward cosmic consciousness as being the source of everything and of which we are all a part, rising ever higher as humans progress forward.


"If so, does God need evil in order to exist? "

FMPOV, yes. Both God and man.
God can only exist in the minds of men, we create him. If we do not have the evil that we create when we compete and create losers, we would go extinct and so would any notions of God. We cannot help but do evil if we wish to love. Evolution and life demand it.

-----------------------
Yes, I agree. God exists only in the minds of men and is of our own creation, that is why the face of god has changed so much through time. As men change, so does god.

Evil does not exist as its own objective entity, but rather is dependent entirely upon context. It is only bad to us if it negatively affects our lives in some way.


Take care,
Rose

Greatest I am
09-05-2012, 05:45 AM
Thanks for the well thought out reply.

Our only point of disagreement would be on what the cosmic consciousness is.

I see it as being born, so to speak, by the first true human consciousness and thus it is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step. Unfortunately, as in all these cases, neither of us can prove our beliefs but it is good that we can ignore such and discuss issues that we can perhaps prove.

Regards
DL