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Rose
07-19-2012, 01:00 PM
http://www.livescience.com/21715-big-bang-quark-gluon-plasma.html


http://i.livescience.com/images/i/17486/iFF/quark-gluon-plasma.jpg?1308851475 http://cdn3.picadmedia.com/assets/adchoices/white.png (http://www.vibrantmedia.com/in-text_advertising/vibrant_ads.asp?cc=us)






An ordinary proton or neutron (foreground) is formed of three quarks bound together by gluons, carriers of the color force. Above a critical temperature, protons and neutrons and other forms of hadronic matter "melt" into a hot, dense soup of free quarks and gluons (background), the quark-gluon plasma.
CREDIT: Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
View full size image


The primordial soup of matter that existed only split-seconds after the Big Bang is now getting recreated in the most powerful particle colliders in the world.
Such research could not only help shed light on exotic states of matter, but also on whether extra dimensions of reality exist, a discovery that could help lead to a so-called "theory of everything," researchers say.
The hearts of the atoms that we are made of consist of protons and neutrons. These subatomic particles, in turn, are made of building blocks known as quarks, which are glued together by particles aptly named gluons.


Quarks are bound extraordinarily tightly together by gluons. However, in the first ten- millionths of a second after the Big Bang, the universe was hot enough to keep quarks apart. The result would have been a hot dense mix of quarks and gluons known as a quark-gluon plasma (http://www.livescience.com/14748-quark-gluon-plasma-particle-soup-rhic.html). Much remains uncertain about what this primordial soup would have been like, since quarks and gluons can interact with each other in extraordinarily complex ways. Read more. (http://www.livescience.com/21715-big-bang-quark-gluon-plasma.html)

luke1978
07-19-2012, 03:22 PM
http://www.livescience.com/21715-big-bang-quark-gluon-plasma.html


http://i.livescience.com/images/i/17486/iFF/quark-gluon-plasma.jpg?1308851475 http://cdn3.picadmedia.com/assets/adchoices/white.png (http://www.vibrantmedia.com/in-text_advertising/vibrant_ads.asp?cc=us)






An ordinary proton or neutron (foreground) is formed of three quarks bound together by gluons, carriers of the color force. Above a critical temperature, protons and neutrons and other forms of hadronic matter "melt" into a hot, dense soup of free quarks and gluons (background), the quark-gluon plasma.
CREDIT: Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
View full size image


The primordial soup of matter that existed only split-seconds after the Big Bang is now getting recreated in the most powerful particle colliders in the world.
Such research could not only help shed light on exotic states of matter, but also on whether extra dimensions of reality exist, a discovery that could help lead to a so-called "theory of everything," researchers say.
The hearts of the atoms that we are made of consist of protons and neutrons. These subatomic particles, in turn, are made of building blocks known as quarks, which are glued together by particles aptly named gluons.


Quarks are bound extraordinarily tightly together by gluons. However, in the first ten- millionths of a second after the Big Bang, the universe was hot enough to keep quarks apart. The result would have been a hot dense mix of quarks and gluons known as a quark-gluon plasma (http://www.livescience.com/14748-quark-gluon-plasma-particle-soup-rhic.html). Much remains uncertain about what this primordial soup would have been like, since quarks and gluons can interact with each other in extraordinarily complex ways. Read more. (http://www.livescience.com/21715-big-bang-quark-gluon-plasma.html)

Concious knowledge brought those particles into reality. Also the fact we have a theory of the big bang could retrocause those particles to exist. There is no beginning and there is no end and in my opinion it is all a concious fluctuation and we are probably all the same conciousness experiencing itself.

Scientists now believe in MWI(Many worlds theory) and they always wonder which path conciousness takes. I say it takes all of them so we live forever and have lived forever living out every concious probability that is causally created or retrocaused.

Even better conciousness could be represented by an infinite sphere that goes inwards and ouwards for eternity in 0 dimensions. Only conciousness exists and precedes any primordial soup. "I am before the primordial soup."

But in a classical world view I'm happy to follow newtonian physics and try and verify the bible as it makes more sense to my human mind. Jesus was the Son of God(The all that is) just like everybody reading this is also a Son, Daughter of the all that is. We are all that is.

Don't let the sub atomic particles precede you. But don't be deceived either because the whole is greater then the sum of its parts. God is great!

Edit - 9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Edit 2 - This is "only" an opinion that I may or may not believe.

Edit 3 -
New International Version (©1984)
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


So Jesus existed with the father before time began which means we did too. If we accept Jesus is God in the flesh he is saying he is one with us by the above statement. The reason I believe we need to do the will of the father in heaven is because that is the greater view of creation that we need to keep in line with. The whole has a better view then its parts. If the parts go in all different directions it is not doing the will of the whole.

So it is fair to say your soul which is part of the whole preceded the primordial soup because the whole knew all its parts before they were born in the flesh. The spirit in the flesh comes from the whole. I think 99 percent of people have missed the meaning of what Jesus said unless I am the 1 percent lost sheep which would not surprise me if that is true!



Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.
Niels Bohr

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/n/niels_bohr.html#vVgI8tBVjFmJKS5Q.99

Richard Amiel McGough
07-19-2012, 05:59 PM
Concious knowledge brought those particles into reality. Also the fact we have a theory of the big bang could retrocause those particles to exist. There is no beginning and there is no end and in my opinion it is all a concious fluctuation and we are probably all the same conciousness experiencing itself.

That's one way to look at things, but it's not the only way, and it remains quite speculative. Sure, it fits well with some interpretations of QM but it is far from an established fact.



Scientists now believe in MWI(Many worlds theory) and they always wonder which path conciousness takes. I say it takes all of them so we live forever and have lived forever living out every concious probability that is causally created or retrocaused.

It would be more accurate to say that "some" scientists believe in the Multi-World Interpretation. Note the final word - interpretation. The same facts can be interpreted in many ways, and science has yet to find any proof of which, if any, is correct.

"Retro-causation" fits very well with Feynman diagrams which can be interpreted as particles moving forwards and backwards in time, but it doesn't necessarily imply that anything is "really" causing things to happen in the past. Note again the key word: interpretation.

534



Even better conciousness could be represented by an infinite sphere that goes inwards and ouwards for eternity in 0 dimensions. Only conciousness exists and precedes any primordial soup. "I am before the primordial soup."
I don't understand what you mean by the words "goes inwards and ouwards in 0 dimensions" There is no meaning to the words "inwards and ouwards" in 0 dimensions.



But in a classical world view I'm happy to follow newtonian physics and try and verify the bible as it makes more sense to my human mind. Jesus was the Son of God(The all that is) just like everybody reading this is also a Son, Daughter of the all that is. We are all that is.

I think it makes a lot of sense to say that we are all "children of the all" but I wouldn't link it with Newtonian mechanics!



So Jesus existed with the father before time began which means we did too. If we accept Jesus is God in the flesh he is saying he is one with us by the above statement. The reason I believe we need to do the will of the father in heaven is because that is the greater view of creation that we need to keep in line with. The whole has a better view then its parts. If the parts go in all different directions it is not doing the will of the whole.

I don't see how the pre-existence of Christ would imply our pre-existence.

Thanks for the stimulating ideas! :thumb:

David M
08-22-2012, 02:28 AM
It appears to me, all man has done is smash atoms to find out the building blocks of matter and we do not know if all the building blocks have been found. Where does the Higgs-Boson particle feature in the model stated in this article? The author makes no mention of this.

As the opening part of the article says; "Much remains uncertain about what this primordial soup would have been like" The article goes on to say that scientists hope these large particle colliders will lead to a "theory of everything", but as far as I can see, scientists have a long way to go.

The real achievement is to start off with raw energy and produce a single quark or gluon or what is the most fundamental of all particles and forces. The question scientists are trying to answer is; "How did God do it?"

David

Rose
08-22-2012, 10:29 PM
It appears to me, all man has done is smash atoms to find out the building blocks of matter and we do not know if all the building blocks have been found. Where does the Higgs-Boson particle feature in the model stated in this article? The author makes no mention of this.

As the opening part of the article says; "Much remains uncertain about what this primordial soup would have been like" The article goes on to say that scientists hope these large particle colliders will lead to a "theory of everything", but as far as I can see, scientists have a long way to go.

The real achievement is to start off with raw energy and produce a single quark or gluon or what is the most fundamental of all particles and forces. The question scientists are trying to answer is; "How did God do it?"

David

Hello David,

Scientists may have a long way to go, but look how far we've come since the first century. Mankind's knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds, the things we take for granted as common knowledge would have been considered miracles in the first century.

It's always good to start with a question and then set out to find an answer, that is how all the great discoveries were made. If you believe in God, why not ask the question "How did God do it?", you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

All the best,
Rose

David M
08-23-2012, 12:47 AM
Hello David,

Scientists may have a long way to go, but look how far we've come since the first century. Mankind's knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds, the things we take for granted as common knowledge would have been considered miracles in the first century.

It's always good to start with a question and then set out to find an answer, that is how all the great discoveries were made. If you believe in God, why not ask the question "How did God do it?", you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

All the best,
Rose

Hello Rose

Eventually, in the Kingdom of God we might be able to get an answer to these questions, but what will be the point of knowing the answers when knowing the answer to any question will not affect one's future once in the Kingdom?

I have responded to a post from Roberto dealing with World Population and in answering I have mentioned exponential curves. It is apparent that knowledge over the last fifty years has expanded rapidly and similar to population growth, knowledge is expanding exponentially but there might be a time limit to which man will not have time to find all the answers to an exponentially increasing set of questions.

It has been reported that some of the scientific community has come to the conclusion that man has discovered very much all there is to know and that there is very little else to discover. In terms of discovery, this could be true, but in terms of the complexity of the earth and life upon it, there \re millions of questions to be answered.

Should we spend all our waking hours trying to get answers to all the millions of questions, or is it better to find the answer just one question; "Does God exist?" If God exists, then it is essential to take the next step and find out what God requires of us.

The Bible contains a vast amount of information and a lifetime is not long enough to know every detail recorded in the Bible, but to summarize the whole of the Bible into one phrase; this is what the Bible records for our guidance; (Ecclesiastes 12:13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


All the best,

David

Rose
08-23-2012, 03:40 PM
Hello Rose

Eventually, in the Kingdom of God we might be able to get an answer to these questions, but what will be the point of knowing the answers when knowing the answer to any question will not affect one's future once in the Kingdom?

I have responded to a post from Roberto dealing with World Population and in answering I have mentioned exponential curves. It is apparent that knowledge over the last fifty years has expanded rapidly and similar to population growth, knowledge is expanding exponentially but there might be a time limit to which man will not have time to find all the answers to an exponentially increasing set of questions.

It has been reported that some of the scientific community has come to the conclusion that man has discovered very much all there is to know and that there is very little else to discover. In terms of discovery, this could be true, but in terms of the complexity of the earth and life upon it, there \re millions of questions to be answered.

Should we spend all our waking hours trying to get answers to all the millions of questions, or is it better to find the answer just one question; "Does God exist?" If God exists, then it is essential to take the next step and find out what God requires of us.

The Bible contains a vast amount of information and a lifetime is not long enough to know every detail recorded in the Bible, but to summarize the whole of the Bible into one phrase; this is what the Bible records for our guidance; (Ecclesiastes 12:13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


All the best,

David

Hello David,

I think a more relevant question is "what can we expect from God if he does exist?". History has shown that man cannot depend on any god to answer prayer, humans are totally on their own when it comes to discovering cures for diseases, or ways to increase crop yields for more food, and all manner of knowledge to improve our lives here on earth.

Who cares what the Bible says, it does not help our lives one iota. Keeping the biblegod's commandments does nothing to help put food on the table, or heal a sick child. Humans must figure out for themselves how to keep the population from exploding, it was humans who discovered birth control, so families can plan to have only as many children as they can take care of. Being fruitful and multiplying is not always a good thing, that is why there are so many starving children in the world; people have children that they cannot take care of.

The more human knowledge grows the better life is for everyone on the planet. The Bible does nothing to expand knowledge, but rather keeps people who adhere to it frozen in a primitive period of time with no room for growth. Biblical revelation ended in the first century, so consequently the first century male biased mindset got frozen into what is called the Word of God, permanently trapping the minds of all those who believe in it. For the true biblical fundamentalist, women will always be in subjugation to men and unable to attain equality in this world..."a mind is a terrible thing to waste", thanks to the biblegod many have been wasted.

Take care,
Rose

Richard Amiel McGough
08-23-2012, 04:36 PM
The real achievement is to start off with raw energy and produce a single quark or gluon or what is the most fundamental of all particles and forces. The question scientists are trying to answer is; "How did God do it?"

Scientists "start off with raw energy" and produce all the elementary particles like quarks, neutrinos, and whatever. That's not a challenge at all because that's what energy does. It excites the quantum field and excitations in the quantum field are what we call "particles." Indeed, particle/anti-particle pairs are popping in and out of existence all the time.

As for asking "how did God do it?" - I don't think many if any scientists would ask that question except when they are feeling poetic. It's not the way scientists think. Science is based on the attempt to find natural laws to explain the physical universe.

David M
08-24-2012, 04:10 AM
Hello David,

I think a more relevant question is "what can we expect from God if he does exist?". History has shown that man cannot depend on any god to answer prayer, humans are totally on their own when it comes to discovering cures for diseases, or ways to increase crop yields for more food, and all manner of knowledge to improve our lives here on earth.

Who cares what the Bible says, it does not help our lives one iota. Keeping the biblegod's commandments does nothing to help put food on the table, or heal a sick child. Humans must figure out for themselves how to keep the population from exploding, it was humans who discovered birth control, so families can plan to have only as many children as they can take care of. Being fruitful and multiplying is not always a good thing, that is why there are so many starving children in the world; people have children that they cannot take care of.

The more human knowledge grows the better life is for everyone on the planet. The Bible does nothing to expand knowledge, but rather keeps people who adhere to it frozen in a primitive period of time with no room for growth. Biblical revelation ended in the first century, so consequently the first century male biased mindset got frozen into what is called the Word of God, permanently trapping the minds of all those who believe in it. For the true biblical fundamentalist, women will always be in subjugation to men and unable to attain equality in this world..."a mind is a terrible thing to waste", thanks to the biblegod many have been wasted.

Take care,
Rose

Hello Rose

I am sorry for you, that you now see absolutely no value in the Bible. Even if written by men, the Bible has a lot of value. In many ways the laws in the Bible were far ahead of its time. You are now an outright humanist and if you now rubbish the valuable content of the Bible, then there is no point to me reasoning with you from the Bible any longer. I will reason from the Bible with anyone who wants to find out the truth of the Bible, but you are now saying that you do not want to reason things out from the Bible, because you have completely rejected it.

When you change your mind, I might pick up reasoning with you again, but I am not prepared to reason from any other source, and especially when the source is the thoughts of men which have no foundation and are no more than wishful thinking.

All the best

David

David M
08-24-2012, 04:14 AM
Indeed, particle/anti-particle pairs are popping in and out of existence all the time.

Hello Richard

Excuse me if I pop out of existence. I do not know when I will pop back again.

All the best,

David

Chris Ellsworth
09-17-2012, 04:59 PM
You ever get one of those foot massages machines, and after using it, not change the water for days?

I bet we evolved off the mold of someone footprint :winking0071: