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sylvius
06-10-2012, 01:22 AM
http://etb-cosmology.blogspot.nl/2012/04/ancient-hebrew-conception-of-universe.html

487

What is wrong with it?

I think it is just the pagan (mis)understanding of scripture


Exodus 20:

You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness which is in the heavens above, which is on the earth below, or which is in the water beneath the earth

Beck
06-10-2012, 09:14 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the illustration it is clear that the ANE thought the earth to be flat and as from the Hebrew point of view that Jerusalem be the center of the earth. There is yet another Hebrew point of view that 'Mountain' as being high up as to where the Lord God dwells in Heaven and to assocate the opposite downward to the 'Valley' as to Hell.

So what actually do you think is wrong with the illustration?

sylvius
06-10-2012, 09:50 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the illustration it is clear that the ANE thought the earth to be flat and as from the Hebrew point of view that Jerusalem be the center of the earth. There is yet another Hebrew point of view that 'Mountain' as being high up as to where the Lord God dwells in Heaven and to assocate the opposite downward to the 'Valley' as to Hell.


So you assume that God did hold on to an out of date worldview when giving the Torah?

A worldview on which also (a certain) Christianity is based?

I was in a German town called Waltrop, even on the day of Fronleichnam, and struck by this door of the Sankt Peterskirche:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/w029.jpg

Beck
06-10-2012, 10:52 AM
So you assume that God did hold on to an out of date worldview when giving the Torah?

I would have to assume correct, but I tend to think that it's more man's point of view than God's. In many places with in the bible 'earth' or land is relating toward the 'land of Israel' more than the global earth. Such a case can be found in Isaiah 43:1, 44:21, 45:12, 45:18 and 65:17-18.



A worldview on which also (a certain) Christianity is based?
Well the bible speaks of the gospel going out to the four corners of the earth given mean of the four direction. Since the children of Israel had been scattered unto the four winds the gospel must go out from unto them so that all of Israel might be saved. Paul which was given to preach to the nations and the children of Israel had completed this task in the first century by him say this: Colossians 1:23."preached to every creature which is under heaven".

So again it appears the worldview is not what we today invison.



I was in a German town called Waltrop, even on the day of Fronleichnam, and struck by this door of the Sankt Peterskirche:
I'm sorry I really can't tell what's in the upper left door? Is it a illustration of the creation account?

sylvius
06-10-2012, 11:56 AM
I would have to assume correct, but I tend to think that it's more man's point of view than God's.
Man made a picture out of it.


In many places with in the bible 'earth' or land is relating toward the 'land of Israel' more than the global earth. Such a case can be found in Isaiah 43:1, 44:21, 45:12, 45:18 and 65:17-18.
Land of Israel being defined by the four rivers that flow out of Eden in fact is the whole earth (with its four corners).

Earth being something that's only present in the here and now, eternal present.

Water being symbol of time. Earth doesn't dissolve in water.

Genesis 1:9-10,

And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas, and God saw that it was good.




I'm sorry I really can't tell what's in the upper left door? Is it a illustration of the creation account?

Upper left pictures God in heaven overarching the earth that's floating on the water.
After Exodus 20:4, heaven above, earth below and water beneath the earth.

Fronleichnam commemorates the institution of the eucharist.

That's strange to me. I think it's fundamental fault.

"Leichnam" = corpse.

Like if Jesus gave his corpse to eat.

And like if the host (the bread) is fruit of the cross.

Cross seen as tree of life ( on the Waltrop door).

Beck
06-10-2012, 12:18 PM
Man made a picture out of it.


Land of Israel being defined by the four rivers that flow out of Eden in fact is the whole earth (with its four corners).

Earth being something that's only present in the here and now, eternal present.

Water being symbol of time. Earth doesn't dissolve in water.

Genesis 1:9-10,

And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas, and God saw that it was good.





Upper left pictures God in heaven overarching the earth that's floating on the water.
After Exodus 20:4, heaven above, earth below and water beneath the earth.

Fronleichnam commemorates the institution of the eucharist.

That's strange to me. I think it's fundamental fault.

"Leichnam" = corpse.

Like if Jesus gave his corpse to eat.

And like if the host (the bread) is fruit of the cross.

Cross seen as tree of life ( on the Waltrop door).

Right, the creation account seem mere symbolic rather than an actual account. So to is the illustration of the Hebrew universe.