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MuadDib987
11-24-2007, 04:47 PM
Jakob Lorber was "a Christian mystic and visionary who referred to himself as 'God's scribe'. He wrote that on 15 March 1840 he began hearing an 'inner voice' from the region of his heart and thereafter transcribed what it said. By the time of his death 24 years later he had written manuscripts equivalent to 10,000 pages in print, expecting and receiving no financial reward for his work.
His Great Gospel of John is a detailed first-person narrative of Jesus' three-year ministry, around 2,000 pages in length and based on the same structure as the Gospel of John, which is described as an eternal book because of John's continual desire to understand the spiritual interpretation of Jesus' parables."
(from Wikipedia)

http://www.jakoblorber.co.nz/Extracts.html

I'd never heard of him before recently, and was curious whether anyone here is familiar with his writings and whether you'd consider them valid, or occultic/theospohical. His work appears to include info on homeopathic cures and pre-adamic creatures, although in the bits I've read, I haven't seen anything I'd call unscriptural.

Richard Amiel McGough
11-24-2007, 05:47 PM
Jakob Lorber was "a Christian mystic and visionary who referred to himself as 'God's scribe'. He wrote that on 15 March 1840 he began hearing an 'inner voice' from the region of his heart and thereafter transcribed what it said. By the time of his death 24 years later he had written manuscripts equivalent to 10,000 pages in print, expecting and receiving no financial reward for his work.
His Great Gospel of John is a detailed first-person narrative of Jesus' three-year ministry, around 2,000 pages in length and based on the same structure as the Gospel of John, which is described as an eternal book because of John's continual desire to understand the spiritual interpretation of Jesus' parables."
(from Wikipedia)

http://www.jakoblorber.co.nz/Extracts.html

I'd never heard of him before recently, and was curious whether anyone here is familiar with his writings and whether you'd consider them valid, or occultic/theospohical. His work appears to include info on homeopathic cures and pre-adamic creatures, although in the bits I've read, I haven't seen anything I'd call unscriptural.
I've never heard of him either. He claims to get his information through the "inner word" whatever that means. I noticed a link in small print on the "books" page which has some online books available: http://www.franky1.com//downloads.html They seems to be pure fantasy stuff like some "letters" written from Jesus to a King Abgarus - which is based on a legend recorded in the fourth century by Eusebius. So now this "mystic" guy supposedly gets an actual transcript of these letters from Jesus through the "inner word."

My "inner word" says "Yeah, right. And I got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale."

In cases like this, it doesn't matter so much if stuff isn't explicitly "unbiblical" - the problem is that the whole thing is phoney and should be ignored.

Richard

MuadDib987
11-25-2007, 03:58 PM
Agreed. I looked further at the link I provided and read where Jesus allegedly mentions his return being contingent upon "one third of humanity" being brought up to speed on his teaching, which not only sounds totally off (24 hours later - heh) but echoes the new age call for a critical mass necessary to change earth's consciousness, etc. etc. . ."special" knowledge that disregards and contradicts everything clearly set out in scripture, and which denies our need for salvation in favor of a feel-good "I'm OK, you're OK, let's all ascend" mentality.

Richard Amiel McGough
11-25-2007, 04:12 PM
Agreed. I looked further at the link I provided and read where Jesus allegedly mentions his return being contingent upon "one third of humanity" being brought up to speed on his teaching, which not only sounds totally off (24 hours later - heh) but echoes the new age call for a critical mass necessary to change earth's consciousness, etc. etc. . ."special" knowledge that disregards and contradicts everything clearly set out in scripture, and which denies our need for salvation in favor of a feel-good "I'm OK, you're OK, let's all ascend" mentality.
Yep. That makes sense. Good analysis. :thumb:

rota
11-29-2007, 08:18 AM
I thought that the divinely inspired writings were according to Romans given to the Jews...


Michael

Richard Amiel McGough
11-29-2007, 09:49 AM
I thought that the divinely inspired writings were according to Romans given to the Jews...


Michael
Yeah, that kinda rings a bell with me too ...

Romans 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Richard

rota
11-29-2007, 10:12 AM
Well, irt's Christmas time, Richard, a lot of bells ringing currently...


Michael

Elisabeth
01-18-2008, 07:52 AM
Yeah, that kinda rings a bell with me too ...

Romans 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Richard

I have found it difficult to explain to others of my ex church that we cannot expect any further canonical writings. I tried to explain that according to Hebrews 1 Jesus was the last prophet to whom all prophets pointed and that John who seemed to have come after Christ and had given us the major prophetic writings was after all one of the disciples whom God had said He would use together with Jesus to form the foundation of the Christian temple or church. I had never considered the verse above which seems to me to be the best proof. Thank you for pointing this out Richard. I have now come to believe that we are all prophets and kings with Jesus Christ. I cannot see any Biblical support for any future or present day prophet as sole leader in a church or denomination. That individual would be taking over the role of the Spirit of God who had been given the specific role in the New Testament to lead each individual into all truth. If anyone has any more light on this subject I would love to hear from you. I need all the help I can get as I have to deal with the belief in a false prophet all the time since my ex church has a dead prophet's writings. :eek:

Elisabeth

Richard Amiel McGough
01-18-2008, 11:29 AM
I have found it difficult to explain to others of my ex church that we cannot expect any further canonical writings. I tried to explain that according to Hebrews 1 Jesus was the last prophet to whom all prophets pointed and that John who seemed to have come after Christ and had given us the major prophetic writings was after all one of the disciples whom God had said He would use together with Jesus to form the foundation of the Christian temple or church. I had never considered the verse above which seems to me to be the best proof. Thank you for pointing this out Richard. I have now come to believe that we are all prophets and kings with Jesus Christ. I cannot see any Biblical support for any future or present day prophet as sole leader in a church or denomination. That individual would be taking over the role of the Spirit of God who had been given the specific role in the New Testament to lead each individual into all truth. If anyone has any more light on this subject I would love to hear from you. I need all the help I can get as I have to deal with the belief in a false prophet all the time since my ex church has a dead prophet's writings. :eek:

Elisabeth
Hi Elisabeth,

I don't think its something that can be settled by an "argument" because I don't think your friends are being held captive in that false church through the power of logical arguments. They are spiritually deceived and held captive by spiritual forces. But that said, I do believe that the Spirit of God could use logical arguments as tools when He frees them. Its a mysterious thing ... I just "knew" that the Bible was complete and that people claiming to be prophets were wrong. If pressed, I could have produced a load of arguments to support that understanding, but the logic itself was not the source of the knowledge or my "knowing." I guess its just a gift of the Spirit.

But then there are disputes amongst those who claim to be true Christians. Witness the endless dispute between Catholics and Protestants over the content of the canon. In this regard, there have never been any definitive arguments presented - they all have sufficient uncertainties and loopholes to allow otherwise reasonable folks to adhere to whatever beliefs they were previously disposed towards. Of course, we all know that the primary driving force behind the Catholic position on the apocrypha is AUTHORITY, since they are held captive by their system of self-proclaimed infallibilty. The Councel of Trent anathematized anyone who claimed the apocryphal books were not canonical, so now the RCC can not change its opinion regardless of the evidence or its entire power structure would crumble to dust.

This is one reason that the Bible Wheel seems so signficant to me. It settles the "canon question" with great clarity, simplicity, and certainty. But it has no power to convince anyone who is predisposed to reject the truth. I have been presenting this information on the internet for seven years now, and no one has ever found any fundamental flaw or systematic errror that would contradict the conclusion that God designed the 66 book canon. I've presented it on all sorts of "Christian" forums, such as TheologyWeb and ASA (the American Scientific Association hosted by Calvin college) and have never found any individual willing to discuss it rationally. Every opponent has always fallen into either silence or mindless moronic mockery when they found themselves unable to refute my assertions with logic and facts. This is why I have become convinced that no one is an unbeliever because of "intellectual" problems with Christianity. It is 100% spiritual. People reject the truth because they choose to reject the truth. But don't get me wrong, there are genuine intellectual difficulties with the faith. My only point is that those difficults are never the real reason a person accepts or rejects Christ.

Well ... your question got me rambling here. I don't know if anything I've said will actually help you help your friends. But getting back to your question, you are entirely correct to believe that "we are all prophets and kings with Jesus Christ" and that there is no "Biblical support for any future or present day prophet as sole leader in a church or denomination." And perhaps that is the best approach with your friends. Share them the Word of God in the power of the Spirit, and let God do the work in their spirits through His Spirit. What more could you offer them? Logic is nothing compared to the Spirit of God.

Richard

Elisabeth
02-08-2008, 05:27 AM
Hi Richard

Yes, you are right. It does not matter what we say, if someone is not open to hear they will not. We therefore have to leave all our loved ones and friends in the hands of God. We know that God wishes all to be saved so we need to pray for these people, trusting that God will certainly do everything He can to get through to them. If there is no change then we must trust that there will be a change later, or if there is no change then we have to trust that God has either already presented them with truth and they haver rejected it or God has other methods of judging those who die in error of which we know nothing.

In either case we need to learn to live by faith, trusting that behind the scenes God does what He can and that no-one is going to be lost because He has not been working. The death of Christ makes that perfectly clear. God is not just going to sacrifice His son and then leave us to our own devices. I cannot explain why at this point in my life I discovered that I had been in a false religion. I do not know why the time was ripe for me to accept a different direction. But accept I did and I praise God for that!

Elisabeth

Richard Amiel McGough
02-08-2008, 09:38 AM
Hi Richard

Yes, you are right. It does not matter what we say, if someone is not open to hear they will not. We therefore have to leave all our loved ones and friends in the hands of God. We know that God wishes all to be saved so we need to pray for these people, trusting that God will certainly do everything He can to get through to them. If there is no change then we must trust that there will be a change later, or if there is no change then we have to trust that God has either already presented them with truth and they haver rejected it or God has other methods of judging those who die in error of which we know nothing.

In either case we need to learn to live by faith, trusting that behind the scenes God does what He can and that no-one is going to be lost because He has not been working. The death of Christ makes that perfectly clear. God is not just going to sacrifice His son and then leave us to our own devices. I cannot explain why at this point in my life I discovered that I had been in a false religion. I do not know why the time was ripe for me to accept a different direction. But accept I did and I praise God for that!

Elisabeth
Good morning Elisabeth,

I am truly amazed that that you were able to get free after five decades of indoctrination. It is a mystery - I don't know why some folks "wake up" and others remain asleep in the falsehoods. It doesn't seem like it's just an "act of God" since in that case we arrive at the Calvinist doctrine of monergism which seems to contradict the entire thrust of Scripture as a Divine Appeal for truly free moral agents to repent and turn to God. But I don't have any other explanation since we are dealing with the deep mysteries of the inner workings of the soul and what it means to be a "free moral agent." In any case, I certainly didn't mean that you should not develop and present the best possible arguments against the errors of the SDA since they will help free the soul that wants to be free. And I guess that highlights the bottom line - there is no volume of valid arguments sufficient to free a soul that chooses falsehood.

Richard