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Richard Amiel McGough
12-29-2011, 12:37 AM
http://youtu.be/iiFZcu9UsIk

kathryn
12-29-2011, 08:42 AM
http://youtu.be/iiFZcu9UsIk

Absolutely STUNNING!

heb13-13
12-29-2011, 10:07 AM
Wonderful and Marvelous!

I remember when I first heard Paul Potts, it brought tears to my eyes. Not hard to believe he has 85 million views, now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDB9zwlXrB8

Richard Amiel McGough
12-29-2011, 10:56 AM
Wonderful and Marvelous!

I remember when I first heard Paul Potts, it brought tears to my eyes. Not hard to believe he has 85 million views, now.
Yeah, and this is an example of why I am so hopeful for the world. Anybody with real talent can instantly be presented to the world. The same applies to all the geniuses who might be living in a village in India or Africa or New York or anyway. Who knows what new minds will arise with the ability to lead humanity to real peace and prosperity? But as I write this, I know that it will trigger the Christian end-time paranoia that there will be an Antichrist who will look like a great leader who will deceive the world. And that's one of the great problems with that form of Christianity. It opposes the very things we need to make the world a better place. (Sorry for the digression - but everything is connected, isn't it?)

heb13-13
12-29-2011, 12:10 PM
Yeah, and this is an example of why I am so hopeful for the world. Anybody with real talent can instantly be presented to the world. The same applies to all the geniuses who might be living in a village in India or Africa or New York or anyway. Who knows what new minds will arise with the ability to lead humanity to real peace and prosperity? But as I write this, I know that it will trigger the Christian end-time paranoia that there will be an Antichrist who will look like a great leader who will deceive the world. And that's one of the great problems with that form of Christianity. It opposes the very things we need to make the world a better place. (Sorry for the digression - but everything is connected, isn't it?)

Hah! No problem with the digression and yes everything is connected. But no worries about a big, bad boogey-man, (the Anti-Christ). The world is already deceived and lies in the power of the Evil One. The big Anti-Christ thing is just an RCC concoction in the Middle Ages to get the focus off of the Pope.

Richard Amiel McGough
12-29-2011, 01:30 PM
Hah! No problem with the digression and yes everything is connected. But no worries about a big, bad boogey-man, (the Anti-Christ). The world is already deceived and lies in the power of the Evil One. The big Anti-Christ thing is just an RCC concoction in the Middle Ages to get the focus off of the Pope.
Ah, good. Are you a historicist (eschatologically speaking)? That is where the doctrine of the Pope as Antichrist began.

But if you believe the Pope is the Antichrist, then I am guessing you believe he will play a roll in the yet-future (or present) "end time" events. Is that correct?

I really like have hope for the world. End time eschatology has destroyed many lives. Kids taught that we are in the end times and Christ is returning at any time have no reason to even get an education. Think about that! Back in the 70s there was a big end times furor. If I had bought into that I could have wasted my whole life.

heb13-13
12-29-2011, 10:27 PM
Ah, good. Are you a historicist (eschatologically speaking)? That is where the doctrine of the Pope as Antichrist began.

But if you believe the Pope is the Antichrist, then I am guessing you believe he will play a roll in the yet-future (or present) "end time" events. Is that correct?

I really like have hope for the world. End time eschatology has destroyed many lives. Kids taught that we are in the end times and Christ is returning at any time have no reason to even get an education. Think about that! Back in the 70s there was a big end times furor. If I had bought into that I could have wasted my whole life.

Hi Richard,

Jesus said to "occupy till I come" and it is sad that the church has preached "get ready to beam up" (no college, menial jobs, etc).

I am neither Futurist, Preterist or Historicist. I just was never "gripped" by any of those views. But I am leaning more towards the Christocentric-Triumphalist interpretation as I learn more and more about it.

I don't see much of this view in publication, but that's ok. I am going to finish reading this article very slowly considering everything. http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revintro.html

So far, I am finding things I seem to be likeminded with.

All the best,
Rick

Richard Amiel McGough
12-29-2011, 11:04 PM
Hi Richard,

Jesus said to "occupy till I come" and it is sad that the church has preached "get ready to beam up" (no college, menial jobs, etc).

I am neither Futurist, Preterist or Historicist. I just was never "gripped" by any of those views. But I am leaning more towards the Christocentric-Triumphalist interpretation as I learn more and more about it.

I don't see much of this view in publication, but that's ok. I am going to finish reading this article very slowly considering everything. http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revintro.html

So far, I am finding things I seem to be likeminded with.

All the best,
Rick
That looks like a very interesting view. Thanks for the link. I think I've encountered it before, but I didn't know it by name.

I was like you for a long time. I was very "non-committal" to any eschatological view since none of them really worked. I tended towards the "already/not yet" ideas of Ladd and Hoekema, and the Idealist approach seemed plausible. But then when I started this forum, I was dragged into endless debates about eschatology (it seemed to be the only thing anyone wanted to talk about) and so I began studying it in earnest and concluded that Preterism was far and away the most coherent with Scripture. But even so, I saw problems with Preterism so I concluded that Biblical Eschatology was logically incoherent.

heb13-13
12-30-2011, 07:23 AM
That looks like a very interesting view. Thanks for the link. I think I've encountered it before, but I didn't know it by name.

I was like you for a long time. I was very "non-committal" to any eschatological view since none of them really worked. I tended towards the "already/not yet" ideas of Ladd and Hoekema, and the Idealist approach seemed plausible. But then when I started this forum, I was dragged into endless debates about eschatology (it seemed to be the only thing anyone wanted to talk about) and so I began studying it in earnest and concluded that Preterism was far and away the most coherent with Scripture. But even so, I saw problems with Preterism so I concluded that Biblical Eschatology was logically incoherent.

I never put together a complete view but what I have read of the different views just did not "feel right", spiritually speaking. I always knew it was more important to stay in relation with Christ then try to figure EVERYTHING out about the endtimes.

This is simplifiying things quite a bit and I know there is much more, but I like the fact that there are "past things" (before Christ) and "last things" (After Christ) and there are "past days" (before Christ) and "last days" (After Christ) and thus, we are living in the Last Days and I am concerned more with the "last things" than the "past things". You won't find phrases like these (except for "last days") but you definitely find the concept of past things, last things, past days and last days in the Bible. But anything that diminishes Jesus or the Christocentric theme of the Bible is always suspect with me anyway and that is not just limited to the study of eschatology. That's my first test for "testing the spirits." Does it (whatever it is) make Jesus smaller or diminish Him at all. I call it the "simplicity test" (2 Cor 11:3).
Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Have a great day,
Rick

CWH
12-30-2011, 10:02 PM
Yeah, and this is an example of why I am so hopeful for the world. Anybody with real talent can instantly be presented to the world. The same applies to all the geniuses who might be living in a village in India or Africa or New York or anyway. Who knows what new minds will arise with the ability to lead humanity to real peace and prosperity? But as I write this, I know that it will trigger the Christian end-time paranoia that there will be an Antichrist who will look like a great leader who will deceive the world. And that's one of the great problems with that form of Christianity. It opposes the very things we need to make the world a better place. (Sorry for the digression - but everything is connected, isn't it?)

Tell me in the millenniums of human history of the world, who has ever lead humanity to real peace and prosperity? Not one! Not that I don't desire real peace and prosperity but that it is humanly impossible, only with God's intervention can real peace and prosperity be achieved. I am looking forward to that day of utopia. Many world leaders dreamt of that...Hitler, Napoleon but they failed utterly....even the Muslims dreamt of that, one united world religion. As long as wars, divisions, greed, evil, sin continue to exist, real peace and prosperity is just an illusion. Please do not blame on Christians and Christianity; did any non-Christian contribute to real world peace and prosperity?


Forgive them Lord, they know not what they are doing. Amen. :pray: Happy New Year.

Richard Amiel McGough
12-31-2011, 02:11 PM
Tell me in the millenniums of human history of the world, who has ever lead humanity to real peace and prosperity? Not one! Not that I don't desire real peace and prosperity but that it is humanly impossible, only with God's intervention can real peace and prosperity be achieved. I am looking forward to that day of utopia. Many world leaders dreamt of that...Hitler, Napoleon but they failed utterly....even the Muslims dreamt of that, one united world religion. As long as wars, divisions, greed, evil, sin continue to exist, real peace and prosperity is just an illusion. Please do not blame on Christians and Christianity; did any non-Christian contribute to real world peace and prosperity?


Forgive them Lord, they know not what they are doing. Amen. :pray: Happy New Year.
Hey there Cheow Wee, :yo:

There have been communities that were better than others. None have been perfect. But then, perfection is not something we should expect in this world, is it? Of course not. Perfection is like a star that guides us, it would be foolish to think we could grasp it.

You say that we can never have "real peace and prosperity" without some sort of "intervention" from God. Why do you say that? When I began to learn to walk many years ago, I would often trip and fall. But now I can walk with near perfection. Sure, there will be an occasional trip but that doesn't mean that I can't walk without divine "intervention." Is not all life like this? Have not many people - indeed most people I would say - learned to "walk" in love and peace towards others? And have there not been worse times in the past? Why don't you believe that people will continue to learn and grow in love and compassion for each other?

People love love. We hate hate. So why wouldn't we, as a planetary people, choose love? It is what we all want, right? So why don't we all choose it? There are many reasons I suppose, mostly having to do with past trauma and bad thought habits. With training and psycho/spiritual counseling, people can learn to live in the abundance of love flowing from their heart to all others.

That's my prayer, anyway!

Richard

CWH
01-01-2012, 09:11 PM
Hey there Cheow Wee, :yo:

There have been communities that were better than others. None have been perfect. But then, perfection is not something we should expect in this world, is it? Of course not. Perfection is like a star that guides us, it would be foolish to think we could grasp it.

You say that we can never have "real peace and prosperity" without some sort of "intervention" from God. Why do you say that? When I began to learn to walk many years ago, I would often trip and fall. But now I can walk with near perfection. Sure, there will be an occasional trip but that doesn't mean that I can't walk without divine "intervention." Is not all life like this? Have not many people - indeed most people I would say - learned to "walk" in love and peace towards others? And have there not been worse times in the past? Why don't you believe that people will continue to learn and grow in love and compassion for each other?

People love love. We hate hate. So why wouldn't we, as a planetary people, choose love? It is what we all want, right? So why don't we all choose it? There are many reasons I suppose, mostly having to do with past trauma and bad thought habits. With training and psycho/spiritual counseling, people can learn to live in the abundance of love flowing from their heart to all others.

That's my prayer, anyway!

Richard

That's my prayer too that there will real world peace and prosperity but not through human means.

Humans have been trying to achieve world peace and prosperity for thousands of years but failed, why do you believe it will ever succeed? And you believe they will succeed one day if they try and try? Same as I would put to you that you believe that people have been making predictions of the end of the world for 2,000 years and failed, why do you think it may one day succeed if they try and try?

I see God as a Supreme Power that will one day subdue all nations to achieve real world peace and prosperity. Humans will never succeed in achieving real world peace and prosperity; this is confirmed by the millenniums of failure. What real peace and prosperity are we talking about if wars, disasters, sin, greed, evil, divisions etc. continue to grow? Throughout history, humans have never learn to live in peace and harmony. Why do you think they will succeed this time?


May God gives us real peace and prosperity.:pray:

Richard Amiel McGough
01-02-2012, 10:02 PM
That's my prayer too that there will real world peace and prosperity but not through human means.

Humans have been trying to achieve world peace and prosperity for thousands of years but failed, why do you believe it will ever succeed? And you believe they will succeed one day if they try and try? Same as I would put to you that you believe that people have been making predictions of the end of the world for 2,000 years and failed, why do you think it may one day succeed if they try and try?

I see God as a Supreme Power that will one day subdue all nations to achieve real world peace and prosperity. Humans will never succeed in achieving real world peace and prosperity; this is confirmed by the millenniums of failure. What real peace and prosperity are we talking about if wars, disasters, sin, greed, evil, divisions etc. continue to grow? Throughout history, humans have never learn to live in peace and harmony. Why do you think they will succeed this time?


May God gives us real peace and prosperity.:pray:
There is no connection at all between the failed end time predictions and the failure to achieve perfect planetary peace. First, you have misunderstood my comments. I haven't said anything about "perfection." I don't believe perfection is possible in this world. There will always be problems, conflicts, and things like that. But there is no reason that we cannot continue to create world-wide peace and prosperity! You rejection of this as a possibility has no basis in reality. Most of my life I have lived with plenty. I have experienced little violence, and food has been abundant. If it can be done for millions of people in America, it can be done for everyone on the planet. Your idea that there must be a "God" who intervenes to fix things is like all the failed date predictions. There is no evidence of any such God. What has he done in the last 2000 years? Anything? He let everyone die until we took control for ourselves and developed antibiotics. If we have to take care of all our earthly needs, it is obvious we also have to take care of peace and prosperity.