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Bob May
12-09-2011, 07:20 PM
Hi all,

This idea has been rolling around in my mind for a while and it has lately taken a more tangible shape.
Our interpretation of Reality is reality for us.

I fooled around with stereo viewing for a while and even built my own replica of a stereo viewer.
Basically, the principle is that we see two images, One for each eye. And this is how we experience depth perception. We don't think about this much, but what we see, or think we see is merely an interpretation of what is right in front of our eyes. It is a subtle thing under normal circumstances, but take a salt shaker and set it in front of you on a table and, without moving your head, close one eye and then the other. Two images. Two angles (lines of sight) from which the salt shaker is seen.
Now, the further apart the eyes the more apparent the illusion of interpretation is.
Eyes are roughly 2-21/4" apart.

I built a "slide mount" for my camera and can take a still life picture, two pictures, actually and look at that picture in 3-D on my viewer. The more distance between the snapshots, the more pronounced the difference in the angles of sight and the more pronounced the 3-D effect. Hyper 3-D. The effect is no longer subtle.

Here is my point. We live our entire lives seeing a third view of everything around us, thinking and acting as if that is reality, when all that it really is, is an interpretation of two viewpoints, neither of which are seen in the interpretation of both.

So, either we are reinterpreting two lies, or making one lie out of two separate truths. Which is it?

I am leading to something here. I will not finish this idea just yet, but bring it in increments.

Here is a link to some photos that you can see what I am speaking about if you are unfamiliar with stereo viewing. These don't require a viewer but you cross your eyes to see the stereo images.
http://www.stereoview.org/default.html
Just go to NSA info and click on Member's Photo Gallery.

This thread is not about stereo viewing. But it is a good place to begin in order to get where I am going with this.
Feel free to jump in any time.

Bob

debz
12-09-2011, 10:10 PM
Bob, is this where you're going...


Matt 6:22
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Luke 11:34-36
34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

Jesus said if thine 'EYE' (singular) be 'single' … not if thine 'eyes' be… He is referring to the awakening of the pineal gland, or 'third eye,' that is being awakened now to bring us into a place where our 'whole body is full of light' (Adam walked in this…). This is the 'Most Holy Place' I referred to in the 'Tabernacle Blueprint' ;-) This is the time of fulfillment of "Tabernacles" ... where the light shines out of "Zion"/New Jerusalem....

Quote from '555' book:

'Later, Jacob is getting ready to go back to the land promised to him by the Lord when he prays for the Lord to bless him. It is here where he has the dream that he is wrestling the angel, and then he also receives a name change to 'Israel,' of which the root word is again Sar (sar = 555 in many places). The literal translation of what the angel declares is: 'You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for as a prince thou hast had power with both God and men, and thou hast overcome.' Jacob then named the place Peniel, saying:

"I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved." Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh. Gen 32:29-32 NASU

This was the place where the birthright blessing was established and confirmed by a name change, in which Jacob was called an 'overcomer.' This was the place where he saw God 'face-to-face,' and the 'sun rose upon him' as he 'crossed over…'

'Penuel' is a play on words for the pineal gland…

This is the 'Day of the Lord' we are coming into the fullness of, as spoken of in Joel:

Joel 2:28-31
28 'And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD .

:winking0071:

Richard Amiel McGough
12-10-2011, 12:53 AM
Excellent theme for a thread Bob! I have long held stereo vision to be one of the prime examples of how we need more than one point of view to "see reality." I look forard to seeing where this thread will lead, especially as more of us add our own unique points of view! (Puns intended most definitely!)

Bob May
12-10-2011, 06:01 PM
Hi Deb,


Bob, is this where you're going...


Matt 6:22
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Luke 11:34-36
34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

Jesus said if thine 'EYE' (singular) be 'single' … not if thine 'eyes' be… He is referring to the awakening of the pineal gland, or 'third eye,' that is being awakened now to bring us into a place where our 'whole body is full of light' (Adam walked in this…). This is the 'Most Holy Place' I referred to in the 'Tabernacle Blueprint' ;-) This is the time of fulfillment of "Tabernacles" ... where the light shines out of "Zion"/New Jerusalem....



Yes Deb this is part of it.
But I think this verse says it even better,..
Mt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

"To enter into life with one eye..." I don't think it is possible otherwise.
So, just on a physical level the 3-D viewer tells us we are living according to ana interpretetion. But on a deeper level Jesus is saying that a certain interpretation (a single eye) is the key to entering Life.
Interpretation in and of itself is not a bad thing. But the Universe is self-reflecting.
A person who believes that they are under law and thus condemnation is correct.
A person who believes that they are under Grace is also correct, yet they are living in an entirely different world.
What is the difference between the two? how they interpret Reality.
Our filter, our description, our doctrine, however you want to define it, colors our reality.

1co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
1co 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

1co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Paul was free from the law but knew that others had not yet had that awareness so he would not eat anything in front of them that would embolden them to eat, not having the full assurance of faith that they were not condemned because of it. Because if we break the law while still unsure of whether or not we are under the law or Grace we condemn ourselves.




'Later, Jacob is getting ready to go back to the land promised to him by the Lord when he prays for the Lord to bless him. It is here where he has the dream that he is wrestling the angel, and then he also receives a name change to 'Israel,' of which the root word is again Sar (sar = 555 in many places). The literal translation of what the angel declares is: 'You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for as a prince thou hast had power with both God and men, and thou hast overcome.' Jacob then named the place Peniel, saying:

"I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved." Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh. Gen 32:29-32 NASU

This was the place where the birthright blessing was established and confirmed by a name change, in which Jacob was called an 'overcomer.' This was the place where he saw God 'face-to-face,' and the 'sun rose upon him' as he 'crossed over…'

'Penuel' is a play on words for the pineal gland…

This is the 'Day of the Lord' we are coming into the fullness of, as spoken of in Joel:

Joel 2:28-31
28 'And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD .

:winking0071:

And at the "Dawning of the day" Jacob said, "Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not.." and he called the place the "Gate of Heaven"
It was cetainly a threshold experience which he later passed on to his son Joseph as the Coat of Many Colors.
Jacob experienced something and after some incubation time, Joseph knew what it was that Jacob had experienced. Because that "Land" was promised to his seed, which was Joseph.
When we experience what Jacob did we understand that we are living in the Gate of Heaven.
When we experience what Joseph did we realize we are Fellow Heirs,..inheritors.
The difference seems subtle, but it is not. And we can come to both realizations at the same time.

But the promises are usually accepted by us a little at a time by revelation.
Jacob realized that his body was the house of God and that the Land (his Reality) had been hidden from him.
His interpretation of what was Real was lacking before this experience. He went through a "Gate" and going through that "Gate" he found himself in Heaven. He was still in the earth in a physical body. The Earth plane or Kingdom (Malkuth) so he had stepped into the "Kingdom of Heaven."

Joseph (remember these characters are US or a pattern that we also follow in waking up to reality.) took it a step further. He realized that the dream and the interpretation of the dream was from God.

Ge 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

Ge 41:15 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I have dreamed a dream, and there is none that can interpret it: and I have heard say of thee, that thou canst understand a dream to interpret it.
Ge 41:16 And Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, It is not in me: God shall give Pharaoh an answer of peace.

As I said the Universe is self-reflecting. All the way back in Genesis we see the Spirit hovering over the Face "Sur-Face" of water,..Reflection. Trees produce fuit and the fruit has the seeds inside that cause them to produce after their kind. Same with plants and animals. And human beings. As a man thinketh In His Heart, so is he.

Joseph is a figure for Christ, but he is also a figure for us. He spoke little but accomplished much. He gave interpretations not based upon his own ides but said that God gave him the interpretations.
He said that interpretationgs "Belonged to God."

More later, some good points Deb.

Bob

Bob May
12-10-2011, 06:10 PM
Excellent theme for a thread Bob! I have long held stereo vision to be one of the prime examples of how we need more than one point of view to "see reality." I look forard to seeing where this thread will lead, especially as more of us add our own unique points of view! (Puns intended most definitely!)

Hi Richard,
Yes, it is an almost magical device. Especially when you begin to question it and apply it to how amazingly we were created. Where does the third view come from? Something inside of us creates it.
That something takes two images, ..splits the difference,...adds a whole other dimension to it (Depth or 3-D)
And then it spits it out to us as "perception." A perception that we take for granted, not giving it any thought whatsoever.
And, maybe the most amazing thing is, is that we don't!

Bob

kathryn
12-11-2011, 05:29 PM
Heh...my husband, Joseph, has been going on and on about getting a 3-D TV the past few days. He already has a 62 " monster that my four daughters call their "5th sister"...and I've been known to refer to as his "one-eyed girlfriend":hysterical:

ps..Bob...have asked you a question about those balloons on the Dumbo thread. Went looking for you..and here you were! Can't fool mother nature!...hee heheheheheheeee

Bob May
12-11-2011, 06:13 PM
Hi all,

I am continuing on here from where I left off because that is the order that went through my mind. Revisiting thoughts that have come to me over and over for quite a while, but condensed into this specific order did something to me lately.
It has to do with watching the sychronicities we have been exploring that happen to us through the outside world, (Malkuth, "Kingdom") and through biblical symbolism both.

God can do a better job communicating with us as we learn more of His language. His symbolism.
So we begin to see that as the "Single Eye." The Eye that sees more clearly and jumps an abyss of sorts beyond what the two eyes see.
So if the earth seems to be speaking with us what is it saying? How do the symbolism of dreams, the bible and external circumstances speak to us? And what is it saying?

Basically, it is saying what we believe to be true. That is our interpretation. These synchronicites Confirm what we believe. Whatever we believe.
We can be Buddhists and the same thing is taught, or we can subscribe to Toltec knowledge ala Carlos Castaneda, Or shamanic practices of Native American seers.
These are all interpretations of Reality. We can call them "doctrines." A doctrine implies an entire system of details that add up to a belief structure.

Some of the differences between Jesus' "Doctrine" and other doctrines or belief systems is that his doctrine was not his at all. He was passing on a revelation that was from above. He called it the Father's doctrine.
The other difference in Jesus' doctrine/interpretation was that it contained promises and guarantees.

As I said the universe is self-reflecting. Deb pointed out a very important aspect of the Tabernacle pattern.
Just inside the veil into the outer court is a laver. It is a reflecting pool that is used for washing. The priests would wash in this pool before continuing on to the anointing with oil and passing through a door to the Holy Place. As they/we are washed by his word we are beholding our own image in the laver.
But our image is changed as we allow ourselves,...our doctrine to change. This is our filter. Everything we behold and our idea of what reality is is determined by this set of "filters" we have buit up over the years.

1co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

That is the image of the Man. Earthly man first and then Heavenly man.

2co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.
2co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. ("It" refers here to the Heart.) (When our hearts turn to the Lord the veil is lifted.)2co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

If we think Jesus comes to teach us according to his promise and doctrine, we are correct.
If the world seems to be speaking to us according to his promise and doctrine, it is.

If we choose his doctrine/interpretation and promises concerning his relationship to the Father we are correct. And it is the Father's doctrine. Not Jesus' doctrine.

Joh 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Now here is the Quantum leap.

If we choose to believe Jesus' Doctrine, his interpretation of Reality for ourselves,...Since he is living inside of us as he promised (again according to his doctrine),..and his words are abiding in us as we can see happening all around us and through revelation of scripture,....


If we choose this as our doctrine, ...Then we are chosen!!!

Mt 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The secret of the single eye is that one point of view that takes us all the way back to where we belong.
The evil eye is anything that stops us short of Return to the Rock. Double vision, double mindedness as opposed to the single eye..

We keep our eye on him and we will come to see it is us looking at us through his eye.
Jesus perspective was the only one that is single and complete and whole. (Holy)
We are growing into his perspective if we continue believing in the promises that he brought us.

In thinking so much about these threads and the ideas contained in them. The amazing orchestration of connections in the Matthew 17 thread and the Looking for Dumbo thread and others.
Night before last I was in bed "sleeping", but what I call sleeping the past few weeks has been not much difference from being awake. I am still thinking about these same things while going to sleep and rising and anytime I wake during sleep. It is pretty neat, but out of the ordinary, none-the-less.

Anyway, on that night I woke up and just for an instant it was like something in me "flipped" and I was seeing myself through Jesus' eyes. From his perspective, so to speak. I cannot explain it any better than that, but what it seemed like was that it all made perfect sense and that that was exactly what we were meant to do. The way we were meant to percieve Reality. But we continue to see it from the wrong perspective and that is what keeps us from that experience or sustaining that experience.

I mentioned on another thread the idea of Jesus coming with angels.

Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Angels are messengers. Messages can come by way of synchronicities and also by revelations of God's Word in scriptures.
When they come in such great numbers it is a flood so to speak.
When they come in such great numbers we are unable to deny their existence and this is what I think the Coming of Jesus will be like for each of us.

This image reminds me of this way of looking at that possibility.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/thousandsofangels.jpg

Bob

kathryn
12-11-2011, 10:52 PM
Bob:In thinking so much about these threads and the ideas contained in them. The amazing orchestration of connections in the Matthew 17 thread and the Looking for Dumbo thread and others.
Night before last I was in bed "sleeping", but what I call sleeping the past few weeks has been not much difference from being awake. I am still thinking about these same things while going to sleep and rising and anytime I wake during sleep. It is pretty neat, but out of the ordinary, none-the-less.

Anyway, on that night I woke up and just for an instant it was like something in me "flipped" and I was seeing myself through Jesus' eyes. From his perspective, so to speak. I cannot explain it any better than that, but what it seemed like was that it all made perfect sense and that that was exactly what we were meant to do. The way we were meant to percieve Reality. But we continue to see it from the wrong perspective and that is what keeps us from that experience or sustaining that experience.


Hi Bob...I've been experiencing something very similar. I believe we are beginning that integration of Spirit and Matter. (as the double 137/137 was pointing to earlier in the "lifting up of the two heads). That "flipping" , I believe, is described in that verse: "we will be like Him, when we see Him as He is. " As I was reading your account of this, I realized that part of seeing Him as He is, is ALSO seeing through His eyes...as He is seeing US as we are...HIM!; This would occur in full integration. It's an amazing concept! It's the merging of the TWO who is ONE eye, you were speaking of!

Sol 4:9 Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck. (He is "seeing" her one eye as merged with His...which ravishes His heart. Have a look at the meaning of "ravished"..and note, the gematria is "34"...the room 340 of death and birth (where I was born and my father died/verse 3:4 of the SOS..and on his 34034 day on earth. )
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp?bnum=22&cnum=4&vnum=9

As the consummation hasn't completed yet, it still feels as though we are still "two" and hence the "flip". (and this is, I believe the beginning of the "twisting" process the "0" makes (or the head/mind), as it becomes the "8". As this increases, it will integrate fully. I've been noticing an increased sense of Oneness as He is speaking through each of us in our posts everyday. It's as though our minds have merged! (and I just remembered those animals, etc. you were making with the balloons! You were twisting them to form them, yes? )

Bob May
12-12-2011, 08:03 AM
Bob:In thinking so much about these threads and the ideas contained in them. The amazing orchestration of connections in the Matthew 17 thread and the Looking for Dumbo thread and others.
Night before last I was in bed "sleeping", but what I call sleeping the past few weeks has been not much difference from being awake. I am still thinking about these same things while going to sleep and rising and anytime I wake during sleep. It is pretty neat, but out of the ordinary, none-the-less.

Anyway, on that night I woke up and just for an instant it was like something in me "flipped" and I was seeing myself through Jesus' eyes. From his perspective, so to speak. I cannot explain it any better than that, but what it seemed like was that it all made perfect sense and that that was exactly what we were meant to do. The way we were meant to percieve Reality. But we continue to see it from the wrong perspective and that is what keeps us from that experience or sustaining that experience.


Hi Bob...I've been experiencing something very similar. I believe we are beginning that integration of Spirit and Matter. (as the double 137/137 was pointing to earlier in the "lifting up of the two heads). That "flipping" , I believe, is described in that verse: "we will be like Him, when we see Him as He is. " As I was reading your account of this, I realized that part of seeing Him as He is, is ALSO seeing through His eyes...as He is seeing US as we are...HIM!; This would occur in full integration. It's an amazing concept! It's the merging of the TWO who is ONE eye, you were speaking of!

Sol 4:9 Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck. (He is "seeing" her one eye as merged with His...which ravishes His heart. Have a look at the meaning of "ravished"..and note, the gematria is "34"...the room 340 of death and birth (where I was born and my father died/verse 3:4 of the SOS..and on his 34034 day on earth. )
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp?bnum=22&cnum=4&vnum=9

As the consummation hasn't completed yet, it still feels as though we are still "two" and hence the "flip". (and this is, I believe the beginning of the "twisting" process the "0" makes (or the head/mind), as it becomes the "8". As this increases, it will integrate fully. I've been noticing an increased sense of Oneness as He is speaking through each of us in our posts everyday. It's as though our minds have merged! (and I just remembered those animals, etc. you were making with the balloons! You were twisting them to form them, yes? )

I had to move this over here. Because it fits so well.
Our interpretation of Reality IS Reality.
Our interpretation of Reality is Leaven.
Leaven is not bad or good, it is a substance that permeates the whole and changes it's very nature.

And the 3 splits the 17th birthday of Joseph.
This is the beginning of something. A new birth into the knidom of heaven. The realization of our sonship=inheritance,

Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Mt 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mt 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Leaven = Doctrine.

Why hide leaven 3 between the 1 and 7 or in the midst of the 17??
Because the leaven of the kingdom of heaven is hid inside of us until the WHOLE is Leavened.
The kingdom of heaven is the doctrine of Christ which is not the doctrine that we hold until the whole is leavened. And that leveaning comes in three stages over time.
Joseph was not revealed as "King" over Egypt until 13 years later. Unity, One, at the reunion of the brothers and Jacob.
The Kingdom of Heaven grows inside of us in obscurity. Like leaven...Doctrine, the doctrine of Christ becomes our Doctrine.

The Pharisees did not go into the kingdom nor let anyone going in to go in.
The Saducees the same because they did not believe in the Resurrection.
Both apply to this life while still in the body. The flesh.

"Better the day of your death than the day of your birth."
It is our doctrine, our world view that keeps us from seeing the Kingdom of heaven all around us IN This Life.

kathryn
12-12-2011, 08:37 AM
Excellent points on the 1 3 7 Bob...(17 is VICTORY!)
Some more exciting revelation on this thread this morning: http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2680-Deuteronomy-29-29&p=39112#post39112

Bob May
12-14-2011, 06:10 AM
"we will be like Him, when we see Him as He is. "[/I] As I was reading your account of this, I realized that part of seeing Him as He is, is ALSO seeing through His eyes...as He is seeing US as we are...HIM!; This would occur in full integration. It's an amazing concept! It's the merging of the TWO who is ONE eye, you were speaking of!

Sol 4:9 Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck. (He is "seeing" her one eye as merged with His...which ravishes His heart. Have a look at the meaning of "ravished"..and note, the gematria is "34"...the room 340 of death and birth (where I was born and my father died/verse 3:4 of the SOS..and on his 34034 day on earth. )

http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp?bnum=22&cnum=4&vnum=9

As the consummation hasn't completed yet, it still feels as though we are still "two" and hence the "flip". (and this is, I believe the beginning of the "twisting" process the "0" makes (or the head/mind), as it becomes the "8". As this increases, it will integrate fully. I've been noticing an increased sense of Oneness as He is speaking through each of us in our posts everyday. It's as though our minds have merged! (and I just remembered those animals, etc. you were making with the balloons! You were twisting them to form them, yes? )

Hi Kathryn,
I looked up the 34 in the database and this one jumped out at me.
The word power is 34 in the original because the spelling is Vav, Kaph, Cheth.
Koach.

Jos 17:17 And Joshua spake unto the house of Joseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:
Jos 17:18 But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.

This "power' that Joshua attributes to Joseph, Manassah and Ephraim is tied to the sex energy. It can be used to bring us closer to God or lower than low. It can feed our base instincts or our higher aspirations.
Weird thinking? Yeah it seemed weird to Onan who refused to raise up seed to his brother.
Check out this article on the "Ourobouros."
http://www.morbidoutlook.com/art/articles/2000_08_ouroborous.html

The figure 8 is an interesting concept. It implies a reversal of polarity or flow. The snake eating it's own tail implies sublimation of the seed. The snake being a symbol of the male organ but also of the spinal collumn itself into which all of the chakras are connected.

The "chain on the neck" is shown in the Devil card:
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/15.gif
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/06.gif

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/Tree_of_life_wk_03.jpg

The differences between the Devil card and the Lovers besides their obvious placement on the Tree, is that the position of the fire is changed.
In the Devil card it is at the end of the man's tail/tailbone.
In the Lovers card it lights the entire tree behind the man and the Angel above the pair of lovers, the one in the clouds, is made of fire.

This is the polarity change.
Also note that the fire/fruit on the tree are twelve. This is the fruit of the Tree of Life.

Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The "Ravished heart"

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/220px-Teresabernini.jpg

St Theresa's experience:
"I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying."

Bob

Bob May
12-14-2011, 06:30 AM
Here is another one.
This is amazing.

Ex 26:24 And they shall be coupled together beneath, and they shall be coupled together above the head of it unto one ring: thus shall it be for them both; they shall be for the two corners.

The word "together" is 34.
Coupled together beneath and "above the head."
This is the Point meditation!!! The "Thousand Petaled Lotus."

Hovering above the "Place of the Skull."

Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Bob

Bob May
12-14-2011, 06:49 AM
Here is another one,

Da 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

In the original the word is Gimel, Lamed, Aleph,...He revealeth = 34.

Bob

kathryn
12-14-2011, 07:16 AM
Hi Kathryn,Good morning Bob, You're brought many themes together as an integrated circuit , in this post!
I looked up the 34 in the database and this one jumped out at me.
The word power is 34 in the original because the spelling is Vav, Kaph, Cheth. The order of the gematria works the same way as our names. The first describes phase 1 of redemption. The 2nd or middle, what is being highlighted in the "midst" or realm of Spirit...the 3rd describes something about the fulfillment in the 3rd day, the consummation on the 8th day.

The Vav of course, is the nail..the conjunction that connects the "Two who are One". The "kaph" is the hollowed hand or altar (heart) and the hollowed pipe to the bowl of oil.
The Chet, which is the fence or wall...is first the dividing wall between the Two. (the wall of Jericho through which Rahab escapes via the scarlet thread, with ALL of her household.)
When the Two are -re-mem-ber-ed in AT-ONE-MENT, they become the Wall of Fire around the New Jerusalem. (or the "integrated circuit" completed.)

The whole process of redemption can be witnessed in creation as an electric circuit...which begins and ends at the "source of power". As I've mentioned on a few threads, the "power" is the double witness...the consummation of the "two" into ONE eye.
It is true Unity...and the answer of Jesus prayer for us before He went to the Cross...."Father, let them be one and you and I are One..Me in You, you in me...".
The double witness has completed the circuit and returned to the source of power....FULL agreement of the Character and purposes of God through His Word Made Flesh. FULL agreement or double witness to the GOODNESS, PASSION AND EXTRAVAGANCE OF THE NATURE AND IMAGE OF GOD AND HIS PURPOSES (GOSPEL OF GOOD NEWS) TOWARDS ALL OF HIS CREATION.
When this double witness has consummated (in the ravishing:-)...the Power can be released through the circuit, restoring Adam/Eve's dominion and birthright on earth (and over the fowls of the air/mindsets, and the creatures of the sea (153 sons of God/levithian).
Koach.

Jos 17:17 And Joshua spake unto the house of Joseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:
Jos 17:18 But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong. This theme of iron is seen in the story of Elisha...when the Axe HEAD of iron, floats back UP from the water, when Elisha tosses in the "stick" (the stick (wooden cross) that has become ONE...Judah/Eprhaim...or Sceptre and Shiloh..Head and Body of the Christ)
It is also a picture of the 153 fish (Sons of God) pulled from the water by the hook (or "stick") of righteousness...the Tzaddi.
It is the rising UP of the True Head, when the carnal "head" of tares has been removed.

The "chariot" of the carnal mind is made of iron...Solomon's Chariot (the consummated heart/virgin subconcious...the full integration of the spirit, soul and body) is "inlaid with Gold" and it's tapestries lovingly WOVEN by the daughters of Jerusalem. We see a beautiful picture of the consummation of the heart/mind..as the Mind of the Christ (plural) as the Beloved and Lover have been re-mem-bered coming UP from the wilderness of the refining(as Jesus said to RE-MEM-BER Him (the elements as The Word made Flesh in the wine(blood) and flesh(bread). We are "sick and dying" until we can discern...with ONE eye of Unity, the "Body of Christ" in ALL Mankind):

Who is this coming up from the desert
like a column of smoke (the smoking torch passed through the ONE animal cut in half)
perfumed with myrrh and incense
made from all the spices of the merchant
Look! It is Solomon's carriage
escorted by 60 warriors
the noblest of Israel
all of them wearing a sword (the TWO edged sword of the Holy Spirit...the TWINNED TEETH of the Beloved, just up from the "Washing" (not ONE stands alone)
all experienced in battle
each with his sword by his side
prepared for the terrors of the night
King Solomon made for himself the carriage
he made it of wood from Lebanon
Its posts he made of silver
its base of gold
It's seat was upholstered with purple
its interior lovingly inlaid
by the daughters of Jerusalem


This "power' that Joshua attributes to Joseph, Manassah and Ephraim is tied to the sex energy. It can be used to bring us closer to God or lower than low. It can feed our base instincts or our higher aspirations.Yes..this is why satan has tried so hard to pervert it. Until we see the Passionate nature of the Beloved/Lover, we can't truly KNOW Him. (consummate with Him) We can't be like Him, until we SEE Him as He is)
Weird thinking? Yeah it seemed weird to Onan who refused to raise up seed to his brother.
Check out this article on the "Ourobouros."
http://www.morbidoutlook.com/art/articles/2000_08_ouroborous.html

The figure 8 is an interesting concept. It implies a reversal of polarity or flow. The snake eating it's own tail implies sublimation of the seed. The snake being a symbol of the male organ but also of the spinal collumn itself into which all of the chakras are connected. Rick asked me what became of satan , when the consummation occurs. The Word made Flesh in nature has many examples of this...but the two I was given demonstrate the formation of the gates of Pearl of the NJ...as well as the color of amber around the Throne. He is the evil, DIVIDED spirit that God sent Saul...that is made "desolate" when its purpose has been accomplished.

We see it(satan) in the irritant that forms the pearl in the oyster....and the fly or insect that has been petrified in the midst of amber. ( hardened tree sap). When the curse is lifted from the Serpent..(wisdom)..., it eats its tail, forming the Wall (Chet..8) of Fire around the Mother/Bride. It is a DOUBLE "wall...when the "8" is "folded" or laid one over the other. (As Elisha laid "hand(kaf) to hand" eye to eye, mouth to mouth, on the son, raising him from the dead, by the power of the double witness. (True Unity in One) It is also the TWO gold bracelets, given to Rebekah at her betrothal

We see this concept in the story of Samson. He takes the TAILS of the foxes (vain (futile/impotent) imaginations that spoil the "vineyard"), ties them together and sets them on fire. :

Jdg 15:4 And Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and TURNED (repentance..TURN(change the mind) tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between TWO tails. 300 is the numerical weight of the Holy Spirit : http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/gr_300.asp

The "chain on the neck" is shown in the Devil card:Do you remember when the 21/22 pieces of Comet Shoemaker Levy broke up on 7/16/94? The pieces were described as a string of pearls. It was the gravitational field of Jupiter which drew or "dragged" them into itself. The process took 7 days.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/15.gif
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/06.gif

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/Tree_of_life_wk_03.jpg

The differences between the Devil card and the Lovers besides their obvious placement on the Tree, is that the position of the fire is changed.yes!:-)
In the Devil card it is at the end of the man's tail/tailbone.
In the Lovers card it lights the entire tree behind the man and the Angel above the pair of lovers, the one in the clouds, is made of fire.

This is the polarity change.yes, exactly! The witness to this in Creation, is the Sun/Son....with the molten , magnetic core. The sea horse...the "white horse(s)" in Rev. 19...is a type of the Hippocampus gland in the brain. It is the MALE sea horse who becomes pregnant. (reversal of polarity). The Sea Horse is also called the PIPE fish...(as the hollow pipes of the candlestick) and the bag Pipes (of skin)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seahorse

The New Jerusalem "Mother" marries...or consummates with her sons. This is speaking of the male spirit..circumcised heart and female/soul/virgin subconcious...in both male and female. Like the Sun...the source of power is within each of us with our "molten core/heart" continuously creating its own "source of power" , when male/female fully integrates in the circuit at the translation or "twist" that occurs in the "midst" of the circuit...the Galilee. Like the Sun and the Sea Horse...we are continually reproducing or co-creating in the restoration of our Birthright (blessing of Joseph)..."be fruitful and multiply" IN the Garden.

Also note that the fire/fruit on the tree are twelve. This is the fruit of the Tree of Life.yes..the number of divine Government...when Dominion is restored..."the Leaves for the Healing of the Nations." It is the 12 stones taken from the midst of the Jordan and carried out on the shoulders of the 12, one from every tribe. In the 3rd Day...it is expressed in the multiple of 12...144,000. It is the twins or paired male/female (as the animals on the ark) 72,000 and 72,000. There are two descriptions of the 144,000...one as the Choir, one as the warriors.

Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The "Ravished heart"

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/220px-Teresabernini.jpg

St Theresa's experience:
"I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. Joseph's flameHe appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying."She was being "firmly Laid" as the foundation or "base of Gold" in Solomon's Chariot. :rolleyes: as the Headstone and Capstone have come into AT-ONE-MENT

Bob

Bob May
12-14-2011, 08:38 AM
Hi Kathryn,
Great stuff.
Kind of gives a whole new meaning to this Hymn we used to sing at my old church.


1.Just as I am, without one plea,
But that Thy blood was shed for me,
And that Thou bid'st me come to Thee,
O Lamb of God, I come! I come!

2.Just as I am, and waiting not
To rid my soul of one dark blot;
To Thee whose blood can cleanse each spot,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

3.Just as I am, though tossed about
With many a conflict, many a doubt;
Fightings within, and fears without,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

4.Just as I am, poor, wretched, blind;
Sight, riches, healing of the mind;
Yes, all I need, in Thee to find,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

5.Just as I am, Thou wilt receive,
Wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve;
Because Thy promise I believe,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

6.Just as I am, Thy love unknown
Has broken every barrier down;
Now, to be Thine, yea, Thine alone,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come! :lol:

It also sheds light on David, a man after God's own heart. The heart center which is the cross over of the 8.
He had a little problem controlling (Kaph) which way the energy was going.

I enjoyed your look at taking the three letters one at a time. It is like looking at a word as a sentence or short story. This principle leads to that principle leads to the next.
Very good stuff.
Also your completed circuit, back to the source.
My teacher was adamant about the fact that the Kundalini (baptism of Fire) was not something just coiled up at the bottom of the spine, as it seems to be taught by most adherents.
The power comes down from above, (Kether. The Crown) then turns, then rises. A complete circuit!!!

That is also in the Mystical Qabbalah book that I recommended to you.

Bob

Rose
12-16-2011, 10:25 PM
Hi Richard,
Yes, it is an almost magical device. Especially when you begin to question it and apply it to how amazingly we were created. Where does the third view come from? Something inside of us creates it.
That something takes two images, ..splits the difference,...adds a whole other dimension to it (Depth or 3-D)
And then it spits it out to us as "perception." A perception that we take for granted, not giving it any thought whatsoever.
And, maybe the most amazing thing is, is that we don't!

Bob

Hi Bob,

I am reading a book called The Whole-Brain Path to Peace by James Olsen, when I came across this paragraph that almost exactly says what you are speaking of.

Most of us are under the impression that we have one perspective (at any given time), a perspective that varies depending on where we are positioned. The fact is, we have three simultaneous perspectives. They include two fundamental perspectives-the left brain's dualistic perspective, which zooms in on details, and the right brain's holistic, outward-looking big picture perspective--as well as a third perspective that is an integration of the two, a perspective that is our personal and cultural creation, a perspective that reflects the mental artistry with which we combine our two fundamental perspectives. And keep in mind that each of the three perspectives takes in the mental and spiritual as well as physical realms.



All the best,
Rose

Bob May
12-17-2011, 12:07 AM
Hi Bob,

I am reading a book called The Whole-Brain Path to Peace by James Olsen, when I came across this paragraph that almost exactly says what you are speaking of.

Most of us are under the impression that we have one perspective (at any given time), a perspective that varies depending on where we are positioned. The fact is, we have three simultaneous perspectives. They include two fundamental perspectives-the left brain's dualistic perspective, which zooms in on details, and the right brain's holistic, outward-looking big picture perspective--as well as a third perspective that is an integration of the two, a perspective that is our personal and cultural creation, a perspective that reflects the mental artistry with which we combine our two fundamental perspectives. And keep in mind that each of the three perspectives takes in the mental and spiritual as well as physical realms.

All the best,
Rose

Hi Rose,
Sounds a lot like the Qabalah. The tree of life can be applied to our body soul and Spirit.
There are 4 worlds and a tree in each world.

On each tree there are three pillars and the right left brain mentalities are manifestations of those pillars.
Right brain people are very often left handed and artistic which I am.
Nothing special in that other than there are less of us. When I was a kid many adults tried to stop you from being left handed. But right and left brain people can be complementary rather than opposed on a given issue or problem or project.

It is the center that is the trick. That is my point in using the stereo viewer as an analogy.
But then it is not really an analogy at all. It is merely an example of how things work.
Same principles working throughout all four worlds.
It sounds like a good book.
We all should try and approach that middle path/whole brain. I've tried to reach across and develope more of the left brain aspects into my thinking, but with limited success. I always snap back to my original starting point. I like being the way I am, except for the bad stuff, of course. We should alway keep improving.
I am what I am. And I try rather to shoot for the middle from where I am.

The whole brain or middle pillar or however you would like to look at it is a quantum leap and it is a gift rather than an attainment in my way of thinking. It is equally accessable to either personality type.

Thanks for the tip I'll keep that book in mind,
Bob

kathryn
12-17-2011, 04:50 AM
Hi Rose,
Sounds a lot like the Qabalah. The tree of life can be applied to our body soul and Spirit.
There are 4 worlds and a tree in each world.

On each tree there are three pillars and the right left brain mentalities are manifestations of those pillars.
Right brain people are very often left handed and artistic which I am.
Nothing special in that other than there are less of us. When I was a kid many adults tried to stop you from being left handed. But right and left brain people can be complementary rather than opposed on a given issue or problem or project.

It is the center that is the trick. That is my point in using the stereo viewer as an analogy.
But then it is not really an analogy at all. It is merely an example of how things work.
Same principles working throughout all four worlds.
It sounds like a good book.
We all should try and approach that middle path/whole brain. I've tried to reach across and develope more of the left brain aspects into my thinking, but with limited success. I always snap back to my original starting point. I like being the way I am, except for the bad stuff, of course. We should alway keep improving.
I am what I am. And I try rather to shoot for the middle from where I am.

The whole brain or middle pillar or however you would like to look at it is a quantum leap and it is a gift rather than an attainment in my way of thinking. It is equally accessable to either personality type.

Thanks for the tip I'll keep that book in mind,
Bob

Hi All, Bob...I am the same way...and as you say, it is finding the middle ground (or pillar), where the integration occurs. This is the whole concept of the "midst"...in typology; the midst of the Jordan where the ark rests and where we return to, to pick up the "12 stones", the midst of the candlesticks etc. John's revelation of Jesus Christ on Patmos (my dying) BEGINS when he sees Christ in the midst of the candlesticks. (or the heart/core of the Bride/Body)

Our midst is where our imagination resides, which must be cleansed . As we receive revelation or rhema, it witnesses to our subconcious mind and the double witness of the two (heart/mind/Spirit) brings integration to the imagination. It's a long process that speeds up as we gain in understanding. It's like a plug in a drainpipe ; after awhile, the force and amount of the water, which has been slowly eroding away the clog, becomes greater and greater...until our imagination becomes fully intergrated. (the light has moved through the "pieces":-)

It is the Word (rhema) as the double edged sword, that separates the realm of division in the soul, from the realm of Spirit (lower waters from upper waters), in order that full integration of the two can occur.


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We become the hands and feet of God, when the midst or marrow is producing Life and the joints can move in unison with the Life. Bending the knee is simply coming into full agreement with our "marrow". The cubit is measured from the elbow to the hand...etc.

kathryn
12-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Speaking of those TWO tails of the foxes, back in post 14....Have a look on the latest on our Comet LoveJoy:

http://spaceweather.com/

debz
12-17-2011, 10:47 AM
Hi Bob, Kathryn, and all...

Just adding another witness to the theme... Bob pointed out that 34 is power and "he revealeth" ... In the N.T. power (dunamis) almost always adds to "555" ...and dunameos adds to 1500 (another multiple of 15). "He revealeth" also related to the 555 message because "secrets revealed"/having revelatory sight all part of it.

Still tying all these themes together that we're looking at... "perfection," "consummation," etc. :)

Deb

Bob May
12-17-2011, 10:47 AM
Hi Kathryn and Rose and anyone else who wanders here,


Hi All, Bob...I am the same way...and as you say, it is finding the middle ground (or pillar), where the integration occurs. This is the whole concept of the "midst"...in typology; the midst of the Jordan where the ark rests and where we return to, to pick up the "12 stones", the midst of the candlesticks etc. John's revelation of Jesus Christ on Patmos (my dying) BEGINS when he sees Christ in the midst of the candlesticks. (or the heart/core of the Bride/Body)

Our midst is where our imagination resides, which must be cleansed . As we receive revelation or rhema, it witnesses to our subconcious mind and the double witness of the two (heart/mind/Spirit) brings integration to the imagination. It's a long process that speeds up as we gain in understanding. It's like a plug in a drainpipe ; after awhile, the force and amount of the water, which has been slowly eroding away the clog, becomes greater and greater...until our imagination becomes fully intergrated. (the light has moved through the "pieces":-)

It is the Word (rhema) as the double edged sword, that separates the realm of division in the soul, from the realm of Spirit (lower waters from upper waters), in order that full integration of the two can occur.


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We become the hands and feet of God, when the midst or marrow is producing Life and the joints can move in unison with the Life. Bending the knee is simply coming into full agreement with our "marrow". The cubit is measured from the elbow to the hand...etc.

Hi Kathryn,

Data from Strong's Concordance
KJV Hebrew Strong's # Value
And it came to pass, that, when the sun שמש H8121 shemesh 640
went down, בוא H0935 bow' 9
and it was dark, עלטה H5939 `alatah 114
behold a smoking עשן H6227 `ashan 420
furnace, תנור H8574 tannuwr 656
and a burning אש H0784 'esh 301
lamp לפיד H3940 lappiyd 124
that passed עבר H5674 `abar 272
between בין H0996 beyn 62
those pieces. גזר H1506 gezer 210

Ge 15:7 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

This can be looked at at two diferent levels. Ur of the Chaldees is Yesod the "light of the Magicians" It is also the emotional plane, where most people think from. Yesod, Hod And Netzach.
So, in one sense it can apply to someone caught up in the "Occult Jungle" Nature magic, pychism, etc.
But on another level it is all of us. We are born into this world and our viewpoints are pretty much laid out for us through Culture and beliefs and family, etc. It is an unconscious indoctrination we all go through.
To break through from that is to escape the "Black Magicians" as don Juan called it. They are everyone we come into contact with.
That was the beginning of Abram's Journey, to break free of this way of thinking that everyone shares.


Ge 15:8 And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
Ge 15:9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
Ge 15:10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

This is a side to side split with a vertical line going down the middle.
Three mirror images of three animals Ram on top, then She Goat and then the Heifer at the bottom.


Ge 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Ge 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Ge 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
Ge 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

So, the lamp goes from top to bottom between the pieces. Not side to side.
This is the tree of Life.

Ge 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Ge 15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
Ge 15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
Ge 15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

It is interesting that the word "between" is Beth,Yod, Nun.
The flame (Yod) in the midst of the Son,(Beth Nun),... which is Jesus and Us because this whole chapter is about the promise of inheritance.



Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Yes, this is the way I understand it. The Sword is a horizontal cut, so to speak. Dividing the soul from spirit is a discernment of what is coming from above and what is coming from below.

If everyone you know agrees on the same things then you have to step outside of the situation to even understand that you are caught up in something. We have to remove ourselves (or be removed) in order to see the situation.
This applies on every level, physical, emotional and spiritual.
The lamp coming down from above allows us to see our situation from a "Higher Perspective."
Now we can see where people are caught and at which places, because we were too.

This is the dividing soul from spirit and this is why when the word of God comes to a church, for example, the church splits in two. It is a horizonal cut and the pieces are one above another.

That is how I see it anyway.

Bob

Bob May
12-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Hi Bob, Kathryn, and all...

Just adding another witness to the theme... Bob pointed out that 34 is power and "he revealeth" ... In the N.T. power (dunamis) almost always adds to "555" ...and dunameos adds to 1500 (another multiple of 15). "He revealeth" also related to the 555 message because "secrets revealed"/having revelatory sight all part of it.

Still tying all these themes together that we're looking at... "perfection," "consummation," etc. :)

Deb

Hi Deb,
I don't know if you saw it, but this is another piece of evidence that helped me.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/3baptisms.jpg

The 14 generations when added up 1+4=5
So, each of the 14 generations add to 5. Hence 555, from Abraham to Christ.
This points to three baptisms.
Each changes our viewpoints or awareness.

Our growing from belief in the invisible promises of God, Abraham.
To the understanding that God does not hold our sins against us (freedom from the law), David who was a man after God's own heart.
To Christ Cosciousness, "I and the Father are one."

Interestingly enough, I found the other night that there are only 13 generations (Regenerations) from David to Jesus, even though it plainly states that there are 14.
That, in my opinion is because it is speaking about US becoming one with Jesus Christ,..So We are the 14th generation, the 42nd month, and the third 5.
It is when it becomes real to us that it becomes Reality.

We are the missing ingredient.
I think that when we completely give up all that we are the 41 turns to 42 and the 554 turns to 555.
Might be an interesting thing to look at the meanings to those two numbers. 41 and 554.
Or, I guess it would be 554.9333
By the way I just found out that 100 divided by 15 is 6.6666.

That is what we are missing the Serpent Fire. The third baptism. Fire,.. into which we give up/burn all that we are.

Bob

Rose
12-17-2011, 12:00 PM
Hi Rose,
Sounds a lot like the Qabalah. The tree of life can be applied to our body soul and Spirit.
There are 4 worlds and a tree in each world.

On each tree there are three pillars and the right left brain mentalities are manifestations of those pillars.
Right brain people are very often left handed and artistic which I am.
Nothing special in that other than there are less of us. When I was a kid many adults tried to stop you from being left handed. But right and left brain people can be complementary rather than opposed on a given issue or problem or project.

It is the center that is the trick. That is my point in using the stereo viewer as an analogy.
But then it is not really an analogy at all. It is merely an example of how things work.
Same principles working throughout all four worlds.
It sounds like a good book.
We all should try and approach that middle path/whole brain. I've tried to reach across and develope more of the left brain aspects into my thinking, but with limited success. I always snap back to my original starting point. I like being the way I am, except for the bad stuff, of course. We should alway keep improving.
I am what I am. And I try rather to shoot for the middle from where I am.

The whole brain or middle pillar or however you would like to look at it is a quantum leap and it is a gift rather than an attainment in my way of thinking. It is equally accessable to either personality type.

Thanks for the tip I'll keep that book in mind,
Bob

Hi Bob,

I too am of the artistic type from childhood, though right-handed. I think because women tend to be more right-brain oriented, the left/right hand dominance doesn't matter as much. Women also tend to have a larger Corpus Callosum, which connects both hemispheres of the brain, allowing more natural whole brain function to take place.

The real key to expanding our consciousness is by total integration of left and right, creating a whole that is greater than the sum of the two parts. The left hemisphere has its strong points and limitations as does the right, but between the two there is no limit to what can be attained. As Buzz Lightyear says "To infinity and beyond!"

All the best to you my fellow artist,
Rose

Bob May
12-17-2011, 12:11 PM
Hi Deb,
Interestingly enough, I found the other night that there are only 13 generations (Regenerations) from David to Jesus, even though it plainly states that there are 14.
That, in my opinion is because it is speaking about US becoming one with Jesus Christ,..So We are the 14th generation, the 42nd month, and the third 5.
It is when it becomes real to us that it becomes Reality.

We are the missing ingredient.
I think that when we completely give up all that we are the 41 turns to 42 and the 554 turns to 555.
Might be an interesting thing to look at the meanings to those two numbers. 41 and 554.
Or, I guess it would be 554.9333
By the way I just found out that 100 divided by 15 is 6.6666.

That is what we are missing the Serpent Fire. The third baptism. Fire,.. into which we give up/burn all that we are.

Bob

There it is:

Strong's Number
< H3555 >

keviyah {kev-ee-yaw'} from 03554; TWOT - 961b; n f AV - burning 2; 2 1) burning, branding, branding scar, burn

(The "branding scar" sounds like it's gonna leave a mark!!!!)

Gematria: 41


Strong's Number
< H1366 >

gebuwl {gheb-ool'} or (shortened) גבל gebul {gheb-ool'} from 01379; TWOT - 307a; n m AV - border 158, coast 69, bound 5, landmark 4, space 2, limit 1, quarters 1, non translated variant 1; 241 1) border, territory 1a) border 1b) territory (enclosed within boundary) 1c) region, territory (of darkness) (fig.)

Gematria: 41

So, we bump our heads on this limit, this border because we are afraid to give up that last piece of us. This last piece will be burned with Fire.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Bob

Bob May
12-17-2011, 12:41 PM
Hi Bob,

I too am of the artistic type from childhood, though right-handed. I think because women tend to be more right-brain oriented, the left/right hand dominance doesn't matter as much. Women also tend to have a larger Corpus Callosum, which connects both hemispheres of the brain, allowing more natural whole brain function to take place.

The real key to expanding our consciousness is by total integration of left and right, creating a whole that is greater than the sum of the two parts. The left hemisphere has its strong points and limitations as does the right, but between the two there is no limit to what can be attained. As Buzz Lightyear says "To infinity and beyond!"

All the best to you my fellow artist,
Rose

Hi Rose,
You are right about women. My wife just "knows stuff" intuitively. Sometimes she really suprizes me. Yet she is the more detailed and organized of the two of us.
Just between you and me I couldn't find my own butt with both hands without her.
And we are all a mixture of the two sides.
One of my favorite artists is Da Vinci. He practically invented proportion and perspective and showed that they were actually sciences. And his inventions were both intuitive and mathematical.
I would have liked to spend a day inside of his head. But I would probably just be dissappointed to come back into my own.

Have a great day,
Bob

Bob May
12-17-2011, 12:55 PM
Hi all,

I actually just noticed something that gives more evidence to us being the 14th of the third 14th generation.
I've been looking at the notes I made on the side of the drawing.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/3baptisms.jpg

But if you look in the middle, to the left of the pink line at the top you will see that I had labeled the path as 13 for the path itself and 1 for the Sephirah Kether itself which adds to 14 but also breaks up that third "leg of the race" into 13+1.
Jesus is One with the Father 13=Unity
And we are the 1,..One with him.
So we are in Unity with the One. That is 14.

Bob

debz
12-17-2011, 01:32 PM
There it is:

Strong's Number
< H3555 >

keviyah {kev-ee-yaw'} from 03554; TWOT - 961b; n f AV - burning 2; 2 1) burning, branding, branding scar, burn

(The "branding scar" sounds like it's gonna leave a mark!!!!)

Gematria: 41


Strong's Number
< H1366 >

gebuwl {gheb-ool'} or (shortened) גבל gebul {gheb-ool'} from 01379; TWOT - 307a; n m AV - border 158, coast 69, bound 5, landmark 4, space 2, limit 1, quarters 1, non translated variant 1; 241 1) border, territory 1a) border 1b) territory (enclosed within boundary) 1c) region, territory (of darkness) (fig.)

Gematria: 41

So, we bump our heads on this limit, this border because we are afraid to give up that last piece of us. This last piece will be burned with Fire.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Bob

Bob-- NICE! And funny it's Strong's # 3555 !

What comes to mind with this is the passage in Zech on Joshua....how he gets new clothes and a new TURBAN (for his HEAD)....

Zech 3:2-7
The Lord said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" 3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. 4 He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, "Remove the filthy garments from him." Again he said to him, "See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes." 5 Then I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments, while the angel of the Lord was standing by.

6 And the angel of the Lord admonished Joshua, saying, 7 "Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'If you will walk in My ways and if you will perform My service, then you will also govern My house and also have charge of My courts, and I will grant you free access among these who are standing here.
NASU

Did you see the things I posted on the Tebow Thread?? All related, too....and connected with the Dumbo Thread/dreams, etc. :winking0071:

Rose
12-18-2011, 11:47 AM
Hi Rose,
You are right about women. My wife just "knows stuff" intuitively. Sometimes she really suprizes me. Yet she is the more detailed and organized of the two of us.
Just between you and me I couldn't find my own butt with both hands without her.
And we are all a mixture of the two sides.
One of my favorite artists is Da Vinci. He practically invented proportion and perspective and showed that they were actually sciences. And his inventions were both intuitive and mathematical.
I would have liked to spend a day inside of his head. But I would probably just be dissappointed to come back into my own.

Have a great day,
Bob

Hi Bob,

The book: Whole Brain Path to Peace (http://amazon.com/dp/1579830552/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=thebibwhe-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=1579830552&adid=0HTRZAM75810H3FXN7DE) is a fascinating book that I'm sure you would enjoy.

Rose

Richard Amiel McGough
12-18-2011, 11:52 AM
Yes Deb this is part of it.
But I think this verse says it even better,..
Mt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

"To enter into life with one eye..." I don't think it is possible otherwise.
So, just on a physical level the 3-D viewer tells us we are living according to ana interpretetion. But on a deeper level Jesus is saying that a certain interpretation (a single eye) is the key to entering Life.
Interpretation in and of itself is not a bad thing. But the Universe is self-reflecting.
A person who believes that they are under law and thus condemnation is correct.
A person who believes that they are under Grace is also correct, yet they are living in an entirely different world.
What is the difference between the two? how they interpret Reality.
Our filter, our description, our doctrine, however you want to define it, colors our reality.

1co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
1co 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

1co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Paul was free from the law but knew that others had not yet had that awareness so he would not eat anything in front of them that would embolden them to eat, not having the full assurance of faith that they were not condemned because of it. Because if we break the law while still unsure of whether or not we are under the law or Grace we condemn ourselves.

This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.

The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.

But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes.

This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.

Great topic Bob!

kathryn
12-18-2011, 12:08 PM
This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.

The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.

But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes. I think the plucking is also the be-heading. :winking0071: The Word made Flesh , God's extravagant , unconditional Love is an offence to those still seeing with divided vision.

This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.

Great topic Bob!

kathryn
12-18-2011, 12:09 PM
And speaking of loops...and harmony...you have seen the latest on our comet LoveJoy? The Creation will always witness the Word made Flesh, of true Unity of the One Eye.

Richard Amiel McGough
12-18-2011, 12:13 PM
This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.

The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.

But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes. I think the plucking is also the be-heading. :winking0071: The Word made Flesh , God's extravagant , unconditional Love is an offence to those still seeing with divided vision.

This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.

Great topic Bob!
Why did you bring in the idea of "offense?" I was talking about confusion. When everything is overlapped with everything else, it becomes confusing and there is no understanding. I take no offense at "God's extravagant, unconditional love."

kathryn
12-18-2011, 12:28 PM
Why did you bring in the idea of "offense?" I was talking about confusion. When everything is overlapped with everything else, it becomes confusing and there is no understanding. I take no offense at "God's extravagant, unconditional love."

I was speaking of the context...If your eye offend thee...pluck it out. (same concept as be-heading the vain imaginations that cause us to divide the whole or ONE.)

Richard Amiel McGough
12-18-2011, 12:36 PM
I was speaking of the context...If your eye offend thee...pluck it out. (same concept as be-heading the vain imaginations that cause us to divide the whole or ONE.)
:doh:

Sorry! I should have noticed that.

kathryn
12-18-2011, 12:50 PM
:doh:

Sorry! I should have noticed that. No appology needed, Dear Bro O Mine

Bob May
12-19-2011, 11:14 AM
This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.

First off, it is not "no matter what interpretation we choose."
It is the Joseph awareness which show that. His interpretation was from God and Interpretations belonged to God. That was his Foundation (Yesod, store house of images. The lower waters.)
Being that the subconscious symbolism is self reflecting and self fulfilling we must get the right interpretation to make any sense out of it whatsoever.
In your Dumbo dream which is very ideosyncratic, because it is a dream, you found universal symbols that were coming through, despite the personal nature of the dream.

All interpretations are true to a degree for the person having the dream (or interpretation of reality, for that matter.) This is what psychoanalysis is all about. But, it is dealing with Yesod.
Both Freud and Jung dealt with that aspect.
Jung took it a little further because he saw that the physical world would actually echo the symbolism of the dreams, which you also found to be true in your Dumbo experience.
Something from Outside of the loop was affecting the loop.

This is the Yesod, (Foundation, lower waters) of one tree overlapping the Tipareth, (Vision of the Harmony of things, Beauty ie. everything is connected and fits).
You said, "Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another."
That is exactly correct and that is why the interpretation has to come from outside the loop.

You have been seeing that everything is connected. That is the thing.
Reaching this state of consciousness and you have seen the interpretation of that state of consciousness fits with the Bible in the dumbo dream, but in walking around Reality you seem reluctant to apply the same measure.

For me the interpretation or measure is the bible and the Qabalah and Tarot.
But it is also the three that bear witness in Earth. Inner outer and scripture. Spirit, Blood and Water.




The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.
But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes.



Neither do I. He was talking about the principle of awakening. And to do that we have to stop seeing things the way we usually see them. (Plucking out the eye)
Like I said I used it as an analogy to demonstrate the awakening principle which shows itself in all four worlds because it is a Principle.
So, it is not an analogy at all, just the Principle working itself out in matter as it does in the emotional realm and the spiritual realms, as it always does.
I think he was speaking about the third eye opening and the partial viewpoint we have to give up for this to happen.




This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.


It is not a single point only. You are actually one of the witnesses to me.
You are seeing things you didn't see before. That is the third eye opened. (spirit and blood)
Jesus also said "If thine eye be single thy whole body is full of light." (water)
I am also basing on my own experience, (spirit.)
And it is fitting the pattern of the Tree of Life as shown in Qabala. (Blood and water)
It also fits with don Juan's teachings of "Seeing" and stopping the world. The second attention and sneaking between the sorcerer's description (interpretation) and the "normal" men's description (interpretation) of the world/Reality,.. to become a "Seer" or "Man of Knowledge." (blood)

Is that enough witnesses for you???

Like I said, it is not a single point. It all fits and interweaves Beautifully. (Tipareth)

It all has to do with the realization that Yesod and Tipareth are overlapped.



Great topic Bob!

It is THE topic.

That's my interpretation and I'm sticking with it,.. Have a great day Richard.
Bob

Richard Amiel McGough
12-19-2011, 12:35 PM
This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.
First off, it is not "no matter what interpretation we choose."
It is the Joseph awareness which show that. His interpretation was from God and Interpretations belonged to God. That was his Foundation (Yesod, store house of images. The lower waters.)
Being that the subconscious symbolism is self reflecting and self fulfilling we must get the right interpretation to make any sense out of it whatsoever.

In your Dumbo dream which is very idiosyncratic, because it is a dream, you found universal symbols that were coming through, despite the personal nature of the dream.

All interpretations are true to a degree for the person having the dream (or interpretation of reality, for that matter.) This is what psychoanalysis is all about. But, it is dealing with Yesod.
Both Freud and Jung dealt with that aspect.
Jung took it a little further because he saw that the physical world would actually echo the symbolism of the dreams, which you also found to be true in your Dumbo experience.
Something from Outside of the loop was affecting the loop.

Well, I think we'll need to refine those words a bit. Any interpretation - whether "true" or not - will have self-confirming aspects because the interpreter will select (cherry pick) facts that support the preferred interpretation. We have mountains of evidence demonstrating this phenomenon.

Now I also agree that there is a "interpretation from God" in which the "idiosyncratically received" symbols are based on universal archetypes. That works great for me. I think it's true, but we still have to sort out the archetypal wheat from the idiosyncratic chaff.

I think the archetypes of the collective unconscious are clothed by my personal unconscious. So any dream analysis requires two layers of "unpacking."



This is the Yesod, (Foundation, lower waters) of one tree overlapping the Tipareth, (Vision of the Harmony of things, Beauty ie. everything is connected and fits).
You said, "Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another."
That is exactly correct and that is why the interpretation has to come from outside the loop.

You have been seeing that everything is connected. That is the thing.
Reaching this state of consciousness and you have seen the interpretation of that state of consciousness fits with the Bible in the dumbo dream, but in walking around Reality you seem reluctant to apply the same measure.

For me the interpretation or measure is the bible and the Qabalah and Tarot.
But it is also the three that bear witness in Earth. Inner outer and scripture. Spirit, Blood and Water.

Hummm ... I understand Inner = Spirit and Scripture = Water. But Outer = blood? I don't know.

It would be interesting to delve into my heart to understand why I became reluctant to walk consistently in this world with a coherently "magical" view of both inner and outer. I think in large part it is because I adopted a fundamentalist stance on Christianity. Around 1993 I met again an old childhood friend who had become fundamentalist. She strongly confirmed my intuitions that my books by Aleister Crowley and other occultists were "evil" and should be destroyed. So I burned them all with her and her husband in a ceremony out in the forest. It took about three hours to burn them all. I felt very "clean" after that, as if the Spirit of God had burned away all the lies in those books. And so I became much more fundamentalist and closed myself off to my own intuition.

It is very strange though - during all those fundamentalist years, I never forgot the Dumbo Dream. But I did "forget" a lot about the associated ideas of Crowley's Tarot, the Tree of Life, and all the other "occultic" things that were profoundly integrated with it. It's so strange to have it awake 21 years later with all it's original vitality. 12/22/12 will be the 22nd anniversary of the synchronicity that was burned into my mind.

It is true that I have been "reluctant" to let myself fall into any old interpretive scheme, especially since it has elements that come from the "outside." The Bible, Qabbalah, and Tarot are a funny lot. They come both from the outside and the inside. Obviously, I've had those three speak from my intuition, dreams and synchronicities in very meaningful ways so there is no question about their reality. But my caution and "level-headedness" keeps me from "diving in" - it seems important to take a step back and evaluate the situation. Hence my skepticism.




The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.
But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes.
Neither do I. He was talking about the principle of awakening. And to do that we have to stop seeing things the way we usually see them. (Plucking out the eye)
Like I said I used it as an analogy to demonstrate the awakening principle which shows itself in all four worlds because it is a Principle.
So, it is not an analogy at all, just the Principle working itself out in matter as it does in the emotional realm and the spiritual realms, as it always does.
I think he was speaking about the third eye opening and the partial viewpoint we have to give up for this to happen.

Well, if that's what he meant, why did he say it in moral terms? Look at the context:

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

At first glance, this looks like a standard moral teaching. But perhaps we can transfigure it. Perhaps Jesus is talking about a lack of self-control and how it leads to lust and the "fire" that leads to all kinds of problems in this life. The Yogi must learn to control his "animal nature" by sitting in meditation and not allowing the lusts of the flesh to control his body and mind. Thus the pure in heart will see God, rather than being thrown again into the "lake of lusting fire" (another transmigration through this level of reality).

So there .. that was easy. A brief meditation shows that passage to have nothing to do with traditional exoteric moral teachings about "heaven and hell" as conditions imposed by God upon a soul, but rather the path to higher consciousness through meditation and right living.





This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.
It is not a single point only. You are actually one of the witnesses to me.
You are seeing things you didn't see before. That is the third eye opened. (spirit and blood)
Jesus also said "If thine eye be single thy whole body is full of light." (water)
I am also basing on my own experience, (spirit.)
And it is fitting the pattern of the Tree of Life as shown in Qabala. (Blood and water)
It also fits with don Juan's teachings of "Seeing" and stopping the world. The second attention and sneaking between the sorcerer's description (interpretation) and the "normal" men's description (interpretation) of the world/Reality,.. to become a "Seer" or "Man of Knowledge." (blood)

Is that enough witnesses for you???

Like I said, it is not a single point. It all fits and interweaves Beautifully. (Tipareth)

It all has to do with the realization that Yesod and Tipareth are overlapped.

I'm still not sure about aligning the spirit/blood/water with inner/outer/scripture or qabbalah/tarot/Bible ....

And there are a few points in your post I didn't see with perfect clarity, but in general I think I'm getting the gist of it. And most important, this is really helping me re-awaken to a larger view of reality. Thanks!

Great chatting!

Richard

Bob May
12-19-2011, 11:20 PM
Well, I think we'll need to refine those words a bit. Any interpretation - whether "true" or not - will have self-confirming aspects because the interpreter will select (cherry pick) facts that support the preferred interpretation. We have mountains of evidence demonstrating this phenomenon.


Yes, Yesod is a whore when disconnected from Tipareth.
You really need to take time to watch Man of La Mancha. El Donza, the whore is the lower triangle of the Tree. She lays with anyone who has the cash. This is the Cherry picking you are speaking about. The world reflects our interpretation no matter what it is.
Don Quixote saw her as Dulcinea. He said the woman was the very soul of man. He also said a man without a woman was like a body without a soul.
So the woman is the soul.
In the end he finally has an effect on El Donza/Dulcinea. He loses the battle of the mirrors and lying on his death bed as the rich land owner (I don't remember his name) El Donza shows up and reminds him that he once called her Dulcinea.
He gets out of his death bed and sings the impossible dream and dies.
This is the Jacob/Joseph story of reunion.
And the spirit of Jacob revived
And Israel said my son is yet alive. I will go and see him once more before I die.

My teacher used to say no one wins the battle of the mirrors.
It is just as you say, we can make anything out of reality that we read into it.

So why not read into it what Jesus read into it???
We are sons of God. We have promises that affect our world view just as Don Quixote affected El Donza (soul) At the end, she refused to be called El Donza, the whore. She had been transformed into Dulcinea.



Now I also agree that there is a "interpretation from God" in which the "idiosyncratically received" symbols are based on universal archetypes. That works great for me. I think it's true, but we still have to sort out the archetypal wheat from the idiosyncratic chaff.


The angels messengers, messages, synchronicities sort out the wheat from the chaff. We just stand by and watch it happen. That is the Beauty (Tipareth) of it.



I think the archetypes of the collective unconscious are clothed by my personal unconscious. So any dream analysis requires two layers of "unpacking."


It's all the same symbols. It all comes from the same place. We are just recievers, clay vessels. We only think we come up with original things. We are really just tuning in to the collective unconscious. It is Yesod and it is all around us. There is nothing new under the sun (Tipareth) Yesod is under the sun.




Hummm ... I understand Inner = Spirit and Scripture = Water. But Outer = blood? I don't know.


The blood of Abel cried out from the ground. So does the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus that speaks better things.
If these should hold their peace the stones would immediately cry out.

Even don Juan taught reaffirmations from the world around us.
And your dreams and the numbers connected to those dreams bled through into you cash register.
Physical matter, stones, ground, Earth, speaking. We just have to shut off our preconcieved notion that it cannot possibly happen and then it happens.
What do you think synchronicities are??? Blood crying out from the ground.

This is why I said that you were missing the most important thing. You are too worried about the details of your dream and are missing the 2000 pound elephant.
That is the promise. That he will come and teach us.
How will you manifest yourself to us and not to the world?
Because the world will not give up their logic long enough to believe that what is happening is really happening.
Joseph's branches reach over that wall!!! That barrier in our perception.
I know you know what I am saying, Richard.
Take the plunge, what do you have to lose but your sanity?



It would be interesting to delve into my heart to understand why I became reluctant to walk consistently in this world with a coherently "magical" view of both inner and outer. I think in large part it is because I adopted a fundamentalist stance on Christianity. Around 1993 I met again an old childhood friend who had become fundamentalist. She strongly confirmed my intuitions that my books by Aleister Crowley and other occultists were "evil" and should be destroyed. So I burned them all with her and her husband in a ceremony out in the forest. It took about three hours to burn them all. I felt very "clean" after that, as if the Spirit of God had burned away all the lies in those books. And so I became much more fundamentalist and closed myself off to my own intuition.


I did the same thing. Thousands of dollars worth of books. In my case I thought that the Tree of Life might have been the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Now I think that it may just be the same thing. They were both in the midst of the Garden.
But again, it is our interpretation of it is what matters.
Do you realize that Satan used a true thing to seduce Jesus in the wilderness?
If you be the son of God, turn these rocks into bread.
Isn't that the real test? To turn the dead words of Scripture into spiritual food?




It is very strange though - during all those fundamentalist years, I never forgot the Dumbo Dream. But I did "forget" a lot about the associated ideas of Crowley's Tarot, the Tree of Life, and all the other "occultic" things that were profoundly integrated with it. It's so strange to have it awake 21 years later with all it's original vitality. 12/22/12 will be the 22nd anniversary of the synchronicity that was burned into my mind.


Both Joseph and Jesus went into Egypt (obscurity, subconscious) for a period. Both matured below the surface. Incubation. When they reappeared they were mature, revealed as something they were not before their dissappearance. Same was true with Paul.



It is true that I have been "reluctant" to let myself fall into any old interpretive scheme, especially since it has elements that come from the "outside." The Bible, Qabbalah, and Tarot are a funny lot. They come both from the outside and the inside. Obviously, I've had those three speak from my intuition, dreams and synchronicities in very meaningful ways so there is no question about their reality. But my caution and "level-headedness" keeps me from "diving in" - it seems important to take a step back and evaluate the situation. Hence my skepticism.


But logic is on the lower triangle on the tree. To evaluate the next triangle you must experience it in order to apply your logic. Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.



Well, if that's what he meant, why did he say it in moral terms? Look at the context:

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

At first glance, this looks like a standard moral teaching. But perhaps we can transfigure it. Perhaps Jesus is talking about a lack of self-control and how it leads to lust and the "fire" that leads to all kinds of problems in this life. The Yogi must learn to control his "animal nature" by sitting in meditation and not allowing the lusts of the flesh to control his body and mind. Thus the pure in heart will see God, rather than being thrown again into the "lake of lusting fire" (another transmigration through this level of reality).


Jesus taught on many levels. It can be taken as a moral teaching. That is the obvious meaning.
But if you take it on that level you would actually pluck out your eye. Do you think he meant for anyone to actually do that?
No, he was pointing out that we are all fallen short of the law. If we break one commandment we are guilty of all. If we even think sin we have blown it. That brings us to Grace which is our only hope.
On another level we sublimate the sexual energy. The spinal cord is a continuum. Keep you mind at one end and your eye will offend you. Keep your mind on the other end and you sublimate the same energy into spiritual outlets.
My teacher used to say a mystic never uses his energy against himself. That was basically his definition of sin.

So there .. that was easy. A brief meditation shows that passage to have nothing to do with traditional exoteric moral teachings about "heaven and hell" as conditions imposed by God upon a soul, but rather the path to higher consciousness through meditation and right living.



I'm still not sure about aligning the spirit/blood/water with inner/outer/scripture or qabbalah/tarot/Bible ....


Scripture is water. Washed by the water of the word.
Blood cries out from the ground.
His Spirit beareth witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. Inner.
I didn't equate Qabalah, Tarot and Bible in the same way.
There can be combinations, though.
If someone I know has the Spirit and confirms something I was working on or adds to it in some way I would say that is Spirit and blood cause it came from outside of me.
Anyway you only need two to let every word be established, Right? 2 or 3 witnesses.

If you pay attention to what is going on around you, you will begin to see it works very well. And without the physical world being involved in this there can be no marriage because the bride is Malkuth. That is both our physical bodies and the world around us.
And there is alway blood on the wedding night of a virgin bride.
Another example of blood bearing witness.



And there are a few points in your post I didn't see with perfect clarity, but in general I think I'm getting the gist of it. And most important, this is really helping me re-awaken to a larger view of reality. Thanks!


Joseph is just beginning to reveal himself to the brothers and Jacob.




Great chatting!

Richard

Have a great night Richard,
Bob

kathryn
12-20-2011, 12:08 AM
Bob: Blood cries out from the ground.

This is our "marrow" or core in our "midst" that we come into agreement with. It is the Heart of the Universe. (and the Life)

Bob May
12-20-2011, 06:24 AM
Hi all,

This is gonna be long and it might not fit into one post, I am going to move the post I had at the tie bow thread cause it fits into what I am getting at here.
I hope to tie some things together without getting too complicated.

Originally Posted by debz
'Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.’'

This verse is not saying the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of Father God and His Christ (Jesus). It is saying it has become the Kingdom of our Lord (Jesus) and HIS Christ. 'Christ' means anointed one—so who is 'His Christ'? It is His Body on earth—the remnant so much like Him in love and anointing that they are as One, equally yoked. And witnessing to this message once again is another 555: The phrase 'of our Lord and His Christ' totals 5550 (555x10, perfection of order). (Also, the word 'Christ' is found 555 times in the KJV.)

The ‘kingdoms of the world becoming the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ’ happens following the seventh angel’s trumpet blast. We are told earlier in Rev 10:7, 'But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." It is the mystery Paul also wrote about, and which is being revealed and understood by true prophets and apostles (Eph 3:4,5). The mystery of ‘Christ in us, the hope of glory,' (Col 1:27); where'…the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery — but I am talking about Christ and the church. Eph 5:31b-32.

Thoughts?
Hi Deb and Kathryn,

I am quoting myself below. It fits so well with what you said,..The Lord and his Christ (anointed one).
The geneology says 14 generations and it only has 13 to Jesus. We are the 14th and we are anointed also.
Hence able to enter the Holy Place through the door.


From the tim Tiebow thread:
""Hi all,

I actually just noticed something that gives more evidence to us being the 14th of the third 14th generation.
I've been looking at the notes I made on the side of the drawing.

But if you look in the middle, to the left of the pink line at the top you will see that I had labeled the path as 13 for the path itself and 1 for the Sephirah Kether itself which adds to 14 but also breaks up that third "leg of the race" into 13+1.
Jesus is One with the Father 13=Unity
And we are the 1,..One with him.
So we are in Unity with the One. That is 14.

Bob

I had been meaning to get here and read this thread in it entirely but was not able or kept forgetting.
Now I see why it happened that way. Because I hadn't seen what I posted above yet.
It fits perfectly. The 13 and the 1.

Bob ""

Here is the drawing I referred to above.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/3baptisms.jpg

This drawing show Jacob's ladder. Three trees overlapped.
There is another 1/2 tree to complete it because there are four worlds and a tree in each world.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/OverlappingTrees.jpg

We are talking about Christ Consciousness, or the beginning of it. This, in my opinion is the Tipareth of the highest of the four trees.

It just hit me last night that this is the answer to the mystery that I have been asking myself about for a couple of years now.
Joseph had two dreams right after recieving the coat of many colors.

Ge 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
Ge 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.
Ge 37:5 And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
Ge 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
Ge 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
Ge 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
Ge 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Ge 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
Ge 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

So it is the second dream that I am looking at here. The sun and the moon...
This dream was fulfilled at the end of the book of Genesis.

Where was Rachel???? She was not there but dead and buried in Bethlehem!!!
But she was there in Joseph and Benjamin in a sense.
Look at the stack of trees called Jacob's ladder. Tipareth Beauty overlaps Kether the Concealed of the Concealed.
The 13 and the 1 that makes up the third leg of the race. Fourteen generations from Babylon to Christ. It is only 13 to Jesus in the Geneology in Matthew. We are the 14th. Anointed=Christ Consciousness.
It is gained by the presence of Rachel. She is the 1 (Kether, first path or Sephirah) added to the 13
Ge 29:17 Leah was tender eyed; but Rachel was beautiful and well favoured.
Ge 29:30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.

Rachel is also the Sephirah of Tipareth Beauty because that is what she is Beautiful.

To gain Rachel Jacob worked for 14 years.

Rachel is the end of misinterpretation of Reality (Yesod, self reflecting universe) because she also cries out from the ground. She was buried in Bethlehem, House of bread (the Holy Place where the shewbread is kept for the priests.)

Mt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

This level of consciousness is above that of Yesod in which all reality is equal and what you believe is what is true. Self reflection.
Rachel is saying there is only Jesus left of all the choices in Bethlehem. All the male children from two years old and younger had been slaughtered.
Rachel is a choice we make!!!
Christ consciousness, Rachel, as both the hidden Sephirah of Kether on one tree and Beauty, Tipareth on the other tree, the 14th person (the 1 of the 13 and 1 Kether, the Crown) fulfilling Joseph's prophetic dream, is testifying from the ground Bethlehem, Bread, Holy Place that Jesus Christ is necessary for Christ Consciousness. He is the only choice.

She is "hidden" Kether in Joseph (God's interpretation is Truth) and Benjamin (Grace, the neck/Daath) showing that those two are the only way to Christ and Christ is the Way, Truth and the Life.

This is the only way through the maze of Yesod which reflects back to us whatever we see as Reality.
This is Beauty and it is Hidden and it is Rachel.

I hope this makes some sense.
There are so many aspects to Christ Consciousness, but the thing about Rachel not being there has bugged me for a long time and I think this answers it for me.

Bob

kathryn
12-20-2011, 07:14 AM
That's an awesome connection to Rachael, Bob! (and the blood crying out from the ground). Rachael is the Mother heart of God...where the plummet line is laid (and raised) in the New Jerusalem/Mother/Bride. It is "Rachael" (pulling on that "scarlet thread/line") ,who draws Heaven(spirit) into Earth(matter) for the consummation. (to raise her children out of captivity)

The "scarlet thread" or "blood" becomes the LIPS around the mouth(pey..17) of the Beloved, in the S.O.S. The books open with her cry: LET HIM KISS ME WITH THE KISSES OF HIS MOUTH

kathryn
12-20-2011, 07:37 AM
The "kiss" again describes the concept of the Two becoming One integrated "witness" to the Heart of God. Elisha laid on the "son"...mouth to mouth.
34 is the Kiss...pey 17 on pey17.

Bob May
12-20-2011, 09:38 AM
The "kiss" again describes the concept of the Two becoming One integrated "witness" to the Heart of God. Elisha laid on the "son"...mouth to mouth.
34 is the Kiss...pey 17 on pey17.

רחל H7354 Rachel / Rachel 238 Resh 200, Chet 8, and Lamed 30

Factors: 238 = 2 x 7 x 17
Jacob had to work 2x7 years to get the promised Rachel as his wife.
She gave birht to Joseph who was 17 when he recieved the inheritance. Coat of many colors.

This is the triangle we are talking about here. The Neshamah or higher aspect of soul as opposed to the lower triangle of Nepesch or animal soul of the world of Formation.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/BobMay2008/Neshemah.jpg

Here are some aspects that I can see. The woman in the strength card is in control of the lion. This is Satan

1pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
In the Qabala the serpent only reaches to Tipareth or Daath.
The woman in the card has the figure 8 horizontal above her head and also around her waist.
It is the second crossover or horizontal path on the tree.
The letter Teth is assigned to this card. The snake eating it's own tail.

This may have something to do with the moon turning to blood.

Ge 31:34 Now Rachel had taken the images, and put them in the camel's furniture, and sat upon them. And Laban searched all the tent, but found them not.
Ge 31:35 And she said to her father, Let it not displease my lord that I cannot rise up before thee; for the custom of women is upon me. And he searched, but found not the images.

The images of Yesod reinterpreted to conform to the blood of Christ possibly. The blood covenant.

We also have the Hermit card which is like Joseph. "Blessed is he who was separate from his bretheren."
The letter is the single flame of Yod. Or hand of God. The Hermit is a forerunner, like Joseph,..Standing on a mountain holding his staff and a lantern to light the way for those who would come after.

There is also Justice who is blindfolded to show impartiality. In other words, the whole picture rather than parts only. She also implies Balance which is what the tree of life is all about and is summed up in Tipareth the center of the tree.
Also Jesus said that justice or judgement and mercy were the weightier matters of law and that looking at appearances, we miss those weightier matters. Joseph was a Just man and was of a mind to put Mary away privily instead of having her stoned. Her letter is Lamed and it is the 22nd path on the tree.

Bob

kathryn
12-20-2011, 09:45 AM
Bob...
This may have something to do with the moon turning to blood.


Yes it does. It's that two-sided coin again expressing two concepts that are one "event". The circumsized heart is fully engorged with blood (upright...erection) in the consummation of the Sun/Son and "sister/Bride" moon. Of course, this is the end of the "tail" of the serpent. When it is decapitated, what was the tail becomes the HEAD. (death is SWALLOWED up in VICTORY...17...THE PEY OR MOUTH.) It is also the CUP full of NEW WINE.

It is the fall of Jericho (moon..carnal mind) and the FULL renewing of the Mind of Christ in the Bride.

Richard Amiel McGough
12-20-2011, 11:13 AM
Yes, Yesod is a whore when disconnected from Tipareth.
You really need to take time to watch Man of La Mancha. El Donza, the whore is the lower triangle of the Tree. She lays with anyone who has the cash. This is the Cherry picking you are speaking about. The world reflects our interpretation no matter what it is.
Don Quixote saw her as Dulcinea. He said the woman was the very soul of man. He also said a man without a woman was like a body without a soul.
So the woman is the soul.
In the end he finally has an effect on El Donza/Dulcinea. He loses the battle of the mirrors and lying on his death bed as the rich land owner (I don't remember his name) El Donza shows up and reminds him that he once called her Dulcinea.
He gets out of his death bed and sings the impossible dream and dies.
This is the Jacob/Joseph story of reunion.
And the spirit of Jacob revived
And Israel said my son is yet alive. I will go and see him once more before I die.

My teacher used to say no one wins the battle of the mirrors.
It is just as you say, we can make anything out of reality that we read into it.

So why not read into it what Jesus read into it???
We are sons of God. We have promises that affect our world view just as Don Quixote affected El Donza (soul) At the end, she refused to be called El Donza, the whore. She had been transformed into Dulcinea.

OK! I will definitely set aside some time to watch that movie. I love the "Impossible Dream" song ~ I'm not sure I knew it was from that movie.

And yes, Yesod is a "whore" indeed when lit only by the lower light. And I suspect I agree with your teacher that no one "wins" the battle with mirrors since all illusions must be shattered before freedom can be found. And your self-conception is definitely full of illusions, prejudices, biases, etc.

It is fascinating how Christians have lost the greatest vision of Christianity, which is our place as gods in the cosmic scheme of things. Thanks for reminding me.



The angels messengers, messages, synchronicities sort out the wheat from the chaff. We just stand by and watch it happen. That is the Beauty (Tipareth) of it.

Yes, there is a peace and a clarity of vision that comes recognizing our place relative to the rest of the Living Cosmos.

The realization that we are truly eternal relative to all that is really helps put my heart and mind at peace. We have "all the time in the world" to work things out. So we should slow down and learn to play music.


It's all the same symbols. It all comes from the same place. We are just recievers, clay vessels. We only think we come up with original things. We are really just tuning in to the collective unconscious. It is Yesod and it is all around us. There is nothing new under the sun (Tipareth) Yesod is under the sun.

We are infinitely more than clay vessels! It's all a question of where your consciousness resides, or with what you identify.




Hummm ... I understand Inner = Spirit and Scripture = Water. But Outer = blood? I don't know.
The blood of Abel cried out from the ground. So does the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus that speaks better things.
If these should hold their peace the stones would immediately cry out.

Even don Juan taught reaffirmations from the world around us.
And your dreams and the numbers connected to those dreams bled through into you cash register.
Physical matter, stones, ground, Earth, speaking. We just have to shut off our preconcieved notion that it cannot possibly happen and then it happens.
What do you think synchronicities are??? Blood crying out from the ground.

This is why I said that you were missing the most important thing. You are too worried about the details of your dream and are missing the 2000 pound elephant.
That is the promise. That he will come and teach us.
How will you manifest yourself to us and not to the world?
Because the world will not give up their logic long enough to believe that what is happening is really happening.
Joseph's branches reach over that wall!!! That barrier in our perception.
I know you know what I am saying, Richard.
Take the plunge, what do you have to lose but your sanity?

Yes indeed ... I do know what you are saying! And oddly enough, I can't find a threat to my "sanity" since "sanity" is like knowing how to walk, and you are talking about dancing. In other words, they are not mutually exclusive at all. The apparent threat to "sanity" is only how it looks to those who are uninitiated. Like the fear that grips a shy kid before he steps and and enters into the world of the living. Or like Dumbo before his first flight before he had sufficient self-confidence to fly without his magic feather. Perfect dream that was for me!

I can't thank you enough for being here to talk through these things with me. It's very helpful. Opening doors to perceive a whole universe in which my little "house" (mind) is embedded.




It would be interesting to delve into my heart to understand why I became reluctant to walk consistently in this world with a coherently "magical" view of both inner and outer. I think in large part it is because I adopted a fundamentalist stance on Christianity. Around 1993 I met again an old childhood friend who had become fundamentalist. She strongly confirmed my intuitions that my books by Aleister Crowley and other occultists were "evil" and should be destroyed. So I burned them all with her and her husband in a ceremony out in the forest. It took about three hours to burn them all. I felt very "clean" after that, as if the Spirit of God had burned away all the lies in those books. And so I became much more fundamentalist and closed myself off to my own intuition.
I did the same thing. Thousands of dollars worth of books. In my case I thought that the Tree of Life might have been the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Now I think that it may just be the same thing. They were both in the midst of the Garden.
But again, it is our interpretation of it is what matters.
Do you realize that Satan used a true thing to seduce Jesus in the wilderness?
If you be the son of God, turn these rocks into bread.
Isn't that the real test? To turn the dead words of Scripture into spiritual food?

It is interesting that you and I and RC Christian have all done that. I hope he comes back soon. He catalyzed this transformation in a big way because of synchronicities in our posts to each other that led me to write up my Dumbo Dream.

That Rabbis call the "world of interpretation" PRDS whence we get the word "PaRaDiSe" which relates directly to "Eden." And what do we know of "Eden" or any of these things except through interpretations of words in the Bible? Thus, the Bible is speaking of itself as both the "Tree of Life" and the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." This understanding transforms everything.

I love the alchemy you suggest - Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? The book contains it's own keys!

I feel like I've always known this. How did I forget?




It is very strange though - during all those fundamentalist years, I never forgot the Dumbo Dream. But I did "forget" a lot about the associated ideas of Crowley's Tarot, the Tree of Life, and all the other "occultic" things that were profoundly integrated with it. It's so strange to have it awake 21 years later with all it's original vitality. 12/22/12 will be the 22nd anniversary of the synchronicity that was burned into my mind.
Both Joseph and Jesus went into Egypt (obscurity, subconscious) for a period. Both matured below the surface. Incubation. When they reappeared they were mature, revealed as something they were not before their dissappearance. Same was true with Paul.

Now the words are weaving themselves. The sudden sense of "how did I forget this" arose just before I came to this comment. I feel like I'm waking up in a most literal sense.




It is true that I have been "reluctant" to let myself fall into any old interpretive scheme, especially since it has elements that come from the "outside." The Bible, Qabbalah, and Tarot are a funny lot. They come both from the outside and the inside. Obviously, I've had those three speak from my intuition, dreams and synchronicities in very meaningful ways so there is no question about their reality. But my caution and "level-headedness" keeps me from "diving in" - it seems important to take a step back and evaluate the situation. Hence my skepticism.
But logic is on the lower triangle on the tree. To evaluate the next triangle you must experience it in order to apply your logic. Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

That makes sense.




Well, if that's what he meant, why did he say it in moral terms? Look at the context:
Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

At first glance, this looks like a standard moral teaching. But perhaps we can transfigure it. Perhaps Jesus is talking about a lack of self-control and how it leads to lust and the "fire" that leads to all kinds of problems in this life. The Yogi must learn to control his "animal nature" by sitting in meditation and not allowing the lusts of the flesh to control his body and mind. Thus the pure in heart will see God, rather than being thrown again into the "lake of lusting fire" (another transmigration through this level of reality).
Jesus taught on many levels. It can be taken as a moral teaching. That is the obvious meaning.
But if you take it on that level you would actually pluck out your eye. Do you think he meant for anyone to actually do that?
No, he was pointing out that we are all fallen short of the law. If we break one commandment we are guilty of all. If we even think sin we have blown it. That brings us to Grace which is our only hope.
On another level we sublimate the sexual energy. The spinal cord is a continuum. Keep you mind at one end and your eye will offend you. Keep your mind on the other end and you sublimate the same energy into spiritual outlets.
My teacher used to say a mystic never uses his energy against himself. That was basically his definition of sin.

It could still be a "moral" teaching expressed in hyperbole (no one is supposed to really pluck out their eye).

And I think that is true for those who need that kind of teaching. But it has a much deeper aspect that reminds the adept the path to spiritual maturity. It is not that there is some great "sin" in adultery that will be punished by a "law" but rather that it would be like poking yourself in your eye. It deceives. It does not satisfy and it is not good. The idea that the problem is that it's a "violation of God's law" is for people who are very immature and need to be told what to do. The mature soul are "those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." They are not under any kind of external law. We are absolutely free. That is the essence of our being.



So there .. that was easy. A brief meditation shows that passage to have nothing to do with traditional exoteric moral teachings about "heaven and hell" as conditions imposed by God upon a soul, but rather the path to higher consciousness through meditation and right living.

Yes indeed, it was easy! :thumb:



If you pay attention to what is going on around you, you will begin to see it works very well. And without the physical world being involved in this there can be no marriage because the bride is Malkuth. That is both our physical bodies and the world around us.
And there is alway blood on the wedding night of a virgin bride.
Another example of blood bearing witness.

Last night I had an insight to the idea of blood bearing witness. Dalet (Door) of Mem(ory) - the elephant never forgets! This is the Key. The purpose of our metaphysical categorical systems is to assist the mind to remember the aspects of Reality that are not visible and that are easily obscured or forgotten.

This is all about memory - remembering - awakening to our true identity as Divine Beings.

It's been an long night of very curious dreams. We are now awakening.

Richard

Bob May
12-20-2011, 11:50 AM
Very cool Richard,

We are Petros, little stones that have been broken off from the big stone Petra.
and meory is a big part of it. Some things that have happened to me, even though I had never experienced them before always have a familiar feeling none-the-less.

Lets try to stay in it.
It's a blast.

Bob

kathryn
12-30-2011, 09:47 AM
Interrupting regular programming to say Happy Birthday to Bob!
May your New Year gush forth in Living Water!:cheerleader5::talk008::fred::fred::fred:

Bob May
12-30-2011, 10:07 AM
Interrupting regular programming to say Happy Birthday to Bob!
May your New Year gush forth in Living Water!:cheerleader5::talk008::fred::fred::fred:

Thank you Kathryn,
I don't feel a day over 58!!!

Bob

kathryn
12-30-2011, 10:21 AM
Thank you Kathryn,
I don't feel a day over 58!!!

Bob

That's Grace for you, Bro! :winking0071: http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/gr_58.asp

Codebreaker
05-05-2012, 07:44 AM
You said: "Now, the further apart the eyes the more apparent the illusion of interpretation is.
So, either we are reinterpreting two lies, or making one lie out of two separate truths. Which is it?"

This makes me think of religious experience which many of us have encountered.
We are convinced that we have encountered someone who is real and alive. And not just a concept.
But people will ask: "How do you know that you have experienced the divine presence and that you are
not fooling yourself?" In most cases, there is no way to prove that we experienced what we did, which is
true for any experience. But then again, how can I prove that I am not dreaming now. As I type my thoughts to you, how can I prove that behind this computer screen you are sitting there and that under your skin there is feeling and imagining? When I communicate with you like this, am I not communicating with more than your body? The fact is
that I have never seen your mind, and I have entered into a relationship with you. I trust my intuition that I am communicating with a human being, and not just a human body. So why should I not trust my intuition that I am in the presence of a divine person?