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RC Christian
11-17-2011, 12:03 PM
The following are videos of a debate between William Lane Craig vs Bart Ehrman on the historical proof of Jesus' resurrection. Ehrman was once a devout Christian and minister...and one of the greatest New Testament scholars alive.

This one is for you, Rose! :pop2:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjOSNj97_gk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOXQ68ZJKhk&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXLu6ApQy2s&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ_K6VzsCVA&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUMsCKlIBAo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBlvbXz5d8&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faovmhzfo30&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7SRhbMqt6Q&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRcNwJNJC1c&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nT9lfqlx8I&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJjDby2PQJo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlQ-Ox9VM&feature=related

Richard Amiel McGough
11-17-2011, 12:15 PM
I love the smell of burnt Craig arguments in the morning ... smell's like, victory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBksHaTQCbU

RC Christian
11-17-2011, 12:33 PM
I love the smell of burnt Craig arguments in the morning ... smell's like, victory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBksHaTQCbU


He may possibly be one of the most annoying primates I have ever come across. He knows he's full of shit...he just won't admit it, because it's his job to be "a dogmatic, mind-controlling, keep the masses in the darkness jerk"...sorry...I just don't like the man!!! :mad:

Rose
11-17-2011, 09:57 PM
Hi RC

Thanks for posting some more Craig...:signthankspin: My brother called me while I was watching the videos, we laughed about how Craig is like a dog with a bone...he just won't let go. I think I've had enough of him for awhile :lol:

Rose

Richard Amiel McGough
11-17-2011, 10:09 PM
He may possibly be one of the most annoying primates I have ever come across. He knows he's full of shit...he just won't admit it, because it's his job to be "a dogmatic, mind-controlling, keep the masses in the darkness jerk"...sorry...I just don't like the man!!! :mad:
Hey, I don't blame you! His logic is ludicrous. He justifies all abortion and murder of children when he defends God of the genocide he commanded by saying "Hey, they go to heaven because they are under the age of accountability, so no harm no foul. God did them no wrong when he ordered them to be killed."

The guy's a loon - which makes me wonder why he is getting so much attention. I think it's probably for two reasons: 1) Atheists are toying with him like a dog with a squeaky toy, and 2) There simply are not any competent Christian apologists out there! They've all corrupted their minds in service of ridiculous unsupportable dogmas.

RC Christian
11-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Hey, I don't blame you! His logic is ludicrous. He justifies all abortion and murder of children when he defends God of the genocide he commanded by saying "Hey, they go to heaven because they are under the age of accountability, so no harm no foul. God did them no wrong when he ordered them to be killed."

The guy's a loon - which makes me wonder why he is getting so much attention. I think it's probably for two reasons: 1) Atheists are toying with him like a dog with a squeaky toy, and 2) There simply are not any competent Christian apologists out there! They've all corrupted their minds in service of ridiculous unsupportable dogmas.


AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

Ipityou
05-27-2012, 02:25 PM
Wow. What a bunch of hateful douchebags. I pity you all.

Richard Amiel McGough
05-27-2012, 02:42 PM
Wow. What a bunch of hateful douchebags. I pity you all.
Thank you for your loving and intelligent response. Now I see how I should act if only I weren't so "hateful."

:hysterical:

duxrow
05-28-2012, 09:25 AM
Thank you for your loving and intelligent response. Now I see how I should act if only I weren't so "hateful."

:hysterical:
:cool:
Yeah Richard, maybe you're really a creampuff?


Genesis2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And Adam replied: What does 'die' mean? Is it anything like sleeping or resting or roller skating?

And God said: Never mind that. Just don't eat the tree's with bark on them, or they'll bite you!

And Adam said: Is that good or is it evil, or is there any difference?

Richard Amiel McGough
05-28-2012, 10:15 AM
:cool:
Yeah Richard, maybe you're really a creampuff?
I've been called worse! :p


Genesis2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And Adam replied: What does 'die' mean? Is it anything like sleeping or resting or roller skating?

And God said: Never mind that. Just don't eat the tree's with bark on them, or they'll bite you!

And Adam said: Is that good or is it evil, or is there any difference?

Nice~! That's pretty much how things probably went. It's pretty strange to think that Adam could know the difference between good and evil before he ate of the tree. So how could he know what God was talking about? And why is "blind obedience" venerated so much? If I were God I wouldn't want people "obeying" me all the time. I'd want them to be happy and free and creative just like I want all the people around me. The whole story is entirely unbelievable.

duxrow
05-28-2012, 10:47 AM
:sCh_christian:
Much as I dislike 'adding to The Word', it seems to me there's much more to the account than what's on the surface -- still the Truth, but not the Whole(y) Truth, since much of the dialogue is not included (as we're told in John's Gospel). Just enough to keep the Bible interesting and challenging even after over 2000 years of examination by fools and educated alike.. :winking0071:

Richard Amiel McGough
05-28-2012, 11:47 AM
:sCh_christian:
Much as I dislike 'adding to The Word', it seems to me there's much more to the account than what's on the surface -- still the Truth, but not the Whole(y) Truth, since much of the dialogue is not included (as we're told in John's Gospel). Just enough to keep the Bible interesting and challenging even after over 2000 years of examination by fools and educated alike.. :winking0071:

What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

And the reason people keep talking about it might have something to do with the fact that the Bible has been used by governing authorities to control people for nearly 2000 years. Billions of people have been indoctrinated with this book from their youth. Of course they will be talking about it ...

duxrow
05-28-2012, 01:30 PM
What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

And the reason people keep talking about it might have something to do with the fact that the Bible has been used by governing authorities to control people for nearly 2000 years. Billions of people have been indoctrinated with this book from their youth. Of course they will be talking about it ...

:fencing:
Two kinds of wrestling.. and hindsight a way of understanding.:lol:

The 6th 'son' (maybe for the 6th day?) Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words. Gen49:21
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. Gen30:8

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And don't take it all at face value--:p

Richard Amiel McGough
05-28-2012, 02:02 PM
:fencing:
Two kinds of wrestling.. and hindsight a way of understanding.:lol:

The 6th 'son' (maybe for the 6th day?) Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words. Gen49:21
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. Gen30:8

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And don't take it all at face value--:p

Well, if the sixth son links to the sixth day, then shouldn't we have had 12 days of creation, one for each son?

duxrow
05-28-2012, 02:32 PM
:thumb:
You're right! Instead, we get 12 hr days plus 12 hr nites: "by two it's established" is what Joseph told the Pharoah about his two dreams, and that was AFTER we'd already been informed of the 2 Great Lights and the 2 Tree's, 2 'brothers', etc.:eek:

Richard Amiel McGough
05-28-2012, 03:16 PM
:thumb:
You're right! Instead, we get 12 hr days plus 12 hr nites: "by two it's established" is what Joseph told the Pharoah about his two dreams, and that was AFTER we'd already been informed of the 2 Great Lights and the 2 Tree's, 2 'brothers', etc.:eek:

And with that, I'd say we've gone thoroughly off-topic! :p

:focus:

duxrow
05-29-2012, 04:09 AM
What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

:focus:
Aw contrare. For mud, you must add liquid. Like on the Day of Pentecost.

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat" Lk22:31
Not mud, but 'dust'. Hafta add water.
Same material used by Detroit for cars..
Same as used in supplements today.

Not only dust, also tree's! Many with bark. Some that bend with the wind.
Some of righteousness, Isa61. Some prob good for firewood.

Not only tree's, but vessels. Some that hold water. Some that chip easily.
Some that can't abide the fire, or take the heat.. they may crash on the rocks, like Paul at Malta.. :)

duxrow
05-30-2012, 10:26 AM
:focus:
Aw contrare. For mud, you must add liquid. Like on the Day of Pentecost.

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat" Lk22:31
Not mud, but 'dust'. Hafta add water.
Same material used by Detroit for cars..
Same as used in supplements today.

Not only dust, also tree's! Many with bark. Some that bend with the wind.
Some of righteousness, Isa61. Some prob good for firewood.

Not only tree's, but vessels. Some that hold water. Some that chip easily.
Some that can't abide the fire, or take the heat.. they may crash on the rocks, like Paul at Malta.. :)

:doh:
Rom9:21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
Our "Fountain of Living Water", Jer2:13, is making mud-pies, you think?:winking0071:

Charisma
05-31-2012, 05:53 PM
What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.Hi Richard,

It's not as complicated as that.

If someone speaks the word of life to you, you know the Person who spoke is alive. This is why Christians believe the historicity of the resurrection. Not because they followed a debate, or even believed the eyewitness accounts in scripture, which were essential for Jews, or read, 'Who Moved the Stone?'


2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 1:21 '... when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened... 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind...'

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Richard Amiel McGough
05-31-2012, 06:16 PM
Hi Richard,

It's not as complicated as that.

If someone speaks the word of life to you, you know the Person who spoke is alive. This is why Christians believe the historicity of the resurrection. Not because they followed a debate, or even believed the eyewitness accounts in scripture, which were essential for Jews, or read, 'Who Moved the Stone?'


2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 1:21 '... when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened... 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind...'

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Hey there Charisma,

You say that is not because "they followed a debate, or even believed the eyewitness accounts in scripture." So it seems you are saying that Christians think they know they are right merely because they feel they are right. It seems you are admitting that there is no reason anyone should believe the Gospel until God "speaks the word of life" to them. The verses you quoted seem to say the same thing. They say that unbelievers can't do anything about being blind to the Gospel because the Gospel can only be heard by those whom God has chosen. The rest are lost and so the Gospel is foolishness to them.

If that's the case, the I must agree that all debate is futile. No amount of study or discussion can lead a person to faith because there is no evidence for Christianity. It is a purely subjective religion based only on "faith" - what a person believes - like all the other religions.

Is this what you were trying to say, or have I failed to understand your point?

All the best,

Richard

cseepe
06-23-2012, 08:44 AM
You might be interested to check out an historical fiction novel, more than six years in the making, titled, The Conspiracy to Assassinate Jesus Christ.

Many of the events and characters will be familiar to any person who has attended a Christian church, but this novel interrelates the historical Jesus with the empire-shaking political machinations of the most powerful man in Rome at the time (a man almost completely forgotten to history). The result is a never-before-told plot that unfolds as the same events described in the New Testament are driven by entirely new and plausible motivations of Pontius Pilate, Joseph Caiaphas, and others.

Why are both men pursuing separate hidden agendas to kindle an uprising against Rome, and why does Pilate really want Jesus kept alive? What role does Lucius Sejanus (a real person), the most powerful man in the Roman Empire, play in this multi-faceted conspiracy?

As events unfold that square off Pilate and Caiaphas in the most famous planned miscarriage of justice in human history, follow Jesus’ journey from birth to adult, world explorer to itinerant lay preacher, and eventually to prophet of God.

The startling conclusions will have you contemplating the many still hotly debated religious concepts in this completely original could-have-been historical fiction thriller.

Richard Amiel McGough
06-23-2012, 05:21 PM
You might be interested to check out an historical fiction novel, more than six years in the making, titled, The Conspiracy to Assassinate Jesus Christ.

Many of the events and characters will be familiar to any person who has attended a Christian church, but this novel interrelates the historical Jesus with the empire-shaking political machinations of the most powerful man in Rome at the time (a man almost completely forgotten to history). The result is a never-before-told plot that unfolds as the same events described in the New Testament are driven by entirely new and plausible motivations of Pontius Pilate, Joseph Caiaphas, and others.

Why are both men pursuing separate hidden agendas to kindle an uprising against Rome, and why does Pilate really want Jesus kept alive? What role does Lucius Sejanus (a real person), the most powerful man in the Roman Empire, play in this multi-faceted conspiracy?

As events unfold that square off Pilate and Caiaphas in the most famous planned miscarriage of justice in human history, follow Jesus’ journey from birth to adult, world explorer to itinerant lay preacher, and eventually to prophet of God.

The startling conclusions will have you contemplating the many still hotly debated religious concepts in this completely original could-have-been historical fiction thriller.

Hey there cseepe, :yo:

Welcome to our forum!

:welcome:

I found the website for the book here: http://www.jesusandsejanus.com/

Jesus and Sejanus - catchy title!

Are you the author of the book? Sounds like it might make a good movie.

All the best,

Richard

cseepe
07-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Hello Richard,

Thanks for the warm greetings.

Yes, I'm the author of the book and apologize in advance for my blatant self-promotion here. The http://www.jesusandsejanus.com/ website was set up years ago while I was still writing the book. This website address was the original name for the book but it evolved into what it is known by today. The website you found actually "points" to the website for the book, http://www.theconspiracytoassassinatejesuschrist.com/

I wrote the novel with the prospect of a movie in the back of my mind, for exactly the same reason you mentioned. I think many people, religious or not, wight find the backdrop of political intrigue, murder, double crossing, treason, etc. going on in Rome an interesting story, especially when tied into the novel's story about Jesus Christ's travels around the Mediterranean and to points in the mid-to-far east.

The book was meticulously researched and touches on all kinds of things that I believe the average Christian follower would not have thought about.

But in the end, it is a Roman history fiction story that connects Jesus to the most powerful man in the empire at the time (arguably more powerful than the emperor), a man completely forgotten to history and virtually unheard by anyone except the ardent first century Roman history scholar.

Thanks for looking up the website.

Kind regards,

Chris